Offseason Thread - Betty when you call me, you can call me Al

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benhogan

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It’s even more dangerous than that. If they roll with KD and Kyrie they will have two mid-lottery picks (8 & 10) to move for veterans to help them win now rather than drafting a couple teenagers.
Regardless of not having Atlanta's picks. The Nets have several solid/cheap role players to surround a potential KD/Ky pairing with:
LeVert, Allen, Harris, Dinwiddie, Kurucs, Napier

What would they be left with to sign ring chasers? Vet Min?
 
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lexrageorge

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Regardless of not having Atlanta's picks. The Nets have several solid/cheap role players to surround a potential KD/Ky pairing with:
LeVert, Allen, Harris, Dinwiddie, Kurucs, Napier

What would they be left with to sign ring chasers? Vet Min?
They would have the room exception at roughly $4.5M. After that, it's the vet minimum.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Regardless of not having Atlanta's picks. The Nets have several solid/cheap role players to surround a potential KD/Ky pairing with:
LeVert, Allen, Harris, Dinwiddie, Kurucs, Napier

What would they be left with to sign ring chasers? Vet Min?
The more I look at their rosters they would only need limited help along with KD/Ky......maybe an Iggy/Ariza-type that can be had in a LeVert trade and a vet min guy to do some frontcourt dirty work that you should be able to acquire on a room exception/vet min deal.

* Harris is an ideal floor spacing for a KD/Ky pairing who would have more value to the Nets than he would in a trade so he's a keeper for sure.

* Allen, while still young, seems capable of learning his role quickly on a veteran-led contender. He's the type of big needed next to Durant as a 4/5 tandem. He's much more valuable on his rookie deal than for anything they would be receiving in return. Another keeper.

* Dinwiddie will be entering his 5h year at age 27 and could be a valuable Lou Williams-type off the bench as he showed this year while signed at a reasonable price for the next 3 seasons.

***As much as I love Caris LeVert's game he is approaching a large payday, has significant injury history and would seem to be the obvious guy moved on a KD/Ky team for a veteran ring chaser to fill the Iguodala, Ariza-type role.


Shit.....I hate to say it but I freakin LOVE this team!!!
 

JCizzle

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Potential team.
Yeah, I think assuming KD will follow Kyrie to Brooklyn is really premature. I think he's still likely headed for the NYK (like LeBron, he's got his rings now so fuck it) and Kyrie will try to attract the LeBron/KD leftovers to Brooklyn.
 

Lazy vs Crazy

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Ah yes, Capella, the guy who got played off of the floor in the playoffs. Definitely who the Celtics need...
 

DJnVa

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Ah yes, Capella, the guy who got played off of the floor in the playoffs. Definitely who the Celtics need...
We should definitely base decisions on one playoff series.

Therefore we should not resign Kyrie.
 

DJnVa

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NBA Radio:

—Tatum is deal-breaker (said there was report out the other day—anyone see it?)
—Celtics will not deal for AD w/out Kyrie
—KL gonna leave Toronto for LAC

EDIT: The Tatum thing was that the Celtics won't deal him.
 
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Captaincoop

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Tatum is a deal breaker? For the Celtics or for New Orleans?

There's effectively no chance the C's are getting Davis without Tatum, I think everyone agrees on that?
 

DJnVa

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The way they talked, it was a deal-breaker for Celtics. And they said this was based on a report from a day or so ago.

Which I haven't seen.
 

nighthob

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Tatum is a deal breaker? For the Celtics or for New Orleans?

There's effectively no chance the C's are getting Davis without Tatum, I think everyone agrees on that?
Yes, and let's hope so. Refusing to include Tatum in a rental package is definitely the right call, because you need something to rebuild around afterwards. It's also good to know that they're not doing anything without Irving signing on the dotted line first, it would suck to see Boston get Elton Branded.
 

TripleOT

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Not liking Capela at $17m a year. Bigs must be able to space the floor in today's NBA to get big money. Harrell does what Caplea does at one third the price. Hopefully, the Cs can develop Robert Williams on the cheap.

I'm guessing that any word out of the Celtics' camp that Tatum is untouchable is just bargaining stuff. Unless they think the market for AD is going to be softer than the one for Kawhi, I don't think a package of Brown and picks is going to be their best offer.
 

Gash Prex

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I really don’t think the Cs are dealing Tatum for a Davis rental - doesn’t make sense IMO.

If he is willing to sign long term ? Sure - but unless you have assurances, no thank you
 

Sam Ray Not

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LeBron's gonna love the Pacific Division next year with Kawhi moving to the Clips and KD moving to SF.



 

RedOctober3829

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On ESPN Mock Draft special, Woj said the Celtics are in on Mike Conley. Not sure how it gets done without shedding a ton of salary(Hayward). He also expresses a lot of doubt that they will trade for Anthony Davis because of the likelihood of Irving leaving.
 
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DJnVa

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Taking good players from Memphis helps our pick, but I don't see how we make the salaries work.
 

nighthob

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Taking good players from Memphis helps our pick, but I don't see how we make the salaries work.
I mean a three way deal where Hayward goes to Indiana for a pick to be sent to Memphis works this summer. Maybe Boston tosses in whoever they pick at 20 or 22.
 

Sprowl

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$5.9 million should give Ainge some additional options in putting together a salary-matching package for Anthony Davis.
 

JokersWildJIMED

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On ESPN Mock Draft special, Woj said the Celtics are in on Mike Conley. Not sure how it gets done without shedding a ton of salary(Hayward). He also expresses a lot of doubt that they will trade for Anthony Davis because of the likelihood of Irving leaving.
I assume the Celtics could theoretically do a sign and trade when Kyrie signs and get a trade exception worth over $20M...this could be used in any hypothetical Conley trade.
 

benhogan

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I will say there is 0% change that Baynes opts-in to his current deal and a 100% chance that he is a Celtic next year on a new and restructured deal similar to the one he signed this year. Aside from this making a ton of sense for him he pretty much tells us this in the language he used about "chatting with Brad and Danny"...…..if he was simply going to opt-in there would be no need for a conversation. I can't imagine the Cetlics not wanting him back at a reasonable price for his role.

I'm 100% positive you'll not admit to being wrong here.
 
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Lazy vs Crazy

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I assume the Celtics could theoretically do a sign and trade when Kyrie signs and get a trade exception worth over $20M...this could be used in any hypothetical Conley trade.
Conley makes over 20 million and TPEs can't be combined with other assets so I don't believe that would work.
 

nighthob

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Conley makes over 20 million and TPEs can't be combined with other assets so I don't believe that would work.
Unless Boston works out a contingent deal with Memphis so that when Irving is dealt they can just send sufficient salary to Memphis to make the minimum necessary salary.
 

HomeRunBaker

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I keep hearing the Conley rumors, but he doesn't make much sense at his salary. I'd rather kick the tires on Rondo for the MLE.
Conley is an expiring contract after next season. I'd guess he'd be the Kyrie replacement should we do the AD deal without much long term risk.
 

HomeRunBaker

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I'm 100% positive you'll not admit to being wrong here.
I was 100% wrong in trusting Baynes to make the obvious financial decision and let his heart get in the way of the business aspect of the game since he can now easily be moved in a deal...…..and end up with a team that he didn't choose without any guaranteed dollars. It sounds to me that Ainge told him that he wouldn't give him that same 1+1 contract with guaranteed dollars for next year as this would be the only reason to opt-in if he wished to be here.

Doubtful that he would make more than that, IMO. There are a bunch of FA centers, and while there are teams with money to spend, just seems like a guy like Baynes is paid about accurately.
Baynes' AAV is in line with his ability/role but surely there were teams willing to guarantee a second year whether straight up or in the form of a player option.
 

DJnVa

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I was 100% wrong in trusting Baynes to make the obvious financial decision and let his heart get in the way of the business aspect of the game since he can now easily be moved in a deal...…..and end up with a team that he didn't choose without any guaranteed dollars. It sounds to me that Ainge told him that he wouldn't give him that same 1+1 contract with guaranteed dollars for next year as this would be the only reason to opt-in if he wished to be here.
Actually, Ainge told him he would not be moved this summer in a deal.

Keith Smith of Yahoo also reported Baynes is opting-in under the indication he will not be traded this summer
 

RedOctober3829

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Actually, Ainge told him he would not be moved this summer in a deal.
In a column posted today, Brian Robb of BSJ(behind the paywall) is reporting that Ainge gave Baynes no promises about his future in Boston upon opting into his contract. Robb says the team feels very highly about Baynes but his $5.4 million salary could be in play in an Anthony Davis deal.

 

the moops

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In a column posted today, Brian Robb of BSJ(behind the paywall) is reporting that Ainge gave Baynes no promises about his future in Boston upon opting into his contract. Robb says the team feels very highly about Baynes but his $5.4 million salary could be in play in an Anthony Davis deal.
Money works with Brown + Smart + Baynes
 

nattysez

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Here's a crazy worst-case scenario for the Warriors: what if KD opts in so he can heal on the Warriors' dime and Klay blew out his ACL and needs 9 months to recover? Can they afford to max Klay and have two max guys on the bench all year? Would they simply HAVE to let Klay walk (or, I guess, hobble) to avoid essentially conceding the season before it starts? Reminder -- it's Steph's age 31-32 season and the first year in their new building.

This is not going to happen, because KD is likely going to sign a max deal elsewhere, but I was thinking about it this evening while lamenting the Warriors' loss.
 

Apisith

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Here's a crazy worst-case scenario for the Warriors: what if KD opts in so he can heal on the Warriors' dime and Klay blew out his ACL and needs 9 months to recover? Can they afford to max Klay and have two max guys on the bench all year? Would they simply HAVE to let Klay walk (or, I guess, hobble) to avoid essentially conceding the season before it starts? Reminder -- it's Steph's age 31-32 season and the first year in their new building.

This is not going to happen, because KD is likely going to sign a max deal elsewhere, but I was thinking about it this evening while lamenting the Warriors' loss.
Wow. What does Lacob do now? Does he re-sign both Klay and KD and pay $50m in luxury taxes for a year and basically chance whether they eek into the playoffs and they both make it back in time? And all of this with a new building.
 

PedroKsBambino

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I think you have to re-sign Klay....for both PR and basketball reasons. They have made a boatload of money on this run and losing Klay over what will look like money is not worthwhile for the ownership, imo.

KD you resign purely based on basketball reasons---even if you are paying him for years for three years of slightly reduced and more uncertain play, he's still worth the contract.
 

Average Game James

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I think you have to re-sign Klay....for both PR and basketball reasons. They have made a boatload of money on this run and losing Klay over what will look like money is not worthwhile for the ownership, imo.

KD you resign purely based on basketball reasons---even if you are paying him for years for three years of slightly reduced and more uncertain play, he's still worth the contract.
It’s not a trivial amount of money though. ESPN laid out the difference with and without KD, and maxing KD and Klay and Draymond next year leaves GS with a salary and luxury tax bill just shy of $1.6 billion over the next 4 years. Drop that down to just one max contract and they save north of $900 million. It’s not “just money.” It’s A LOT of money, even in NBA owner terms.

That’s a ton of money for essentially 2 years of that team, especially with uncertainty around what KD looks like post-Achilles and the fact that Steph and Dray aren’t getting any younger. Fully healthy, you probably suck it up and pay the bill because that group likely has at least another title in them. But in the current state, that’s a lot of money to gamble on health...

The article, for those with insider or espn+ or whatever it’s called now: https://www.espn.com/nba/insider/story/_/id/26933637/next-moves-warriors-kd-klay-big-roster-questions
 

benhogan

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It’s not a trivial amount of money though. ESPN laid out the difference with and without KD, and maxing KD and Klay and Draymond next year leaves GS with a salary and luxury tax bill just shy of $1.6 billion over the next 4 years. Drop that down to just one max contract and they save north of $900 million. It’s not “just money.” It’s A LOT of money, even in NBA owner terms.

That’s a ton of money for essentially 2 years of that team, especially with uncertainty around what KD looks like post-Achilles and the fact that Steph and Dray aren’t getting any younger. Fully healthy, you probably suck it up and pay the bill because that group likely has at least another title in them. But in the current state, that’s a lot of money to gamble on health...

The article, for those with insider or espn+ or whatever it’s called now: https://www.espn.com/nba/insider/story/_/id/26933637/next-moves-warriors-kd-klay-big-roster-questions
The GSW would be nutz if they maxed KD. Exactly why the NBA put in a luxury tax, can't have one team hoarding so much talent.

It's going to be fun watching this play out:popcorn:
 

lovegtm

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It’s not a trivial amount of money though. ESPN laid out the difference with and without KD, and maxing KD and Klay and Draymond next year leaves GS with a salary and luxury tax bill just shy of $1.6 billion over the next 4 years. Drop that down to just one max contract and they save north of $900 million. It’s not “just money.” It’s A LOT of money, even in NBA owner terms.

That’s a ton of money for essentially 2 years of that team, especially with uncertainty around what KD looks like post-Achilles and the fact that Steph and Dray aren’t getting any younger. Fully healthy, you probably suck it up and pay the bill because that group likely has at least another title in them. But in the current state, that’s a lot of money to gamble on health...

The article, for those with insider or espn+ or whatever it’s called now: https://www.espn.com/nba/insider/story/_/id/26933637/next-moves-warriors-kd-klay-big-roster-questions
Yeah, people look at net worths and forget that cash flow is just as important. There are very few people in America who are THAT liquid, and a lot of owners levered up to buy the team in the first place.

Tilman Fertita is Exhibit A, but that’s pretty standard.
 

HomeRunBaker

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The GSW would be nutz if they maxed KD. Exactly why the NBA put in a luxury tax, can't have one team hoarding so much talent.

It's going to be fun watching this play out:popcorn:
They would be nutz NOT to max Durant out since allowing him to walk doesn't free up any cap space. The Warriors have already taken in over $2B in revenue (yes that is BILLION!) from the new arena in the form of tickets, suites, and sponsorships.......the luxury tax and repeater tax is way behind the curve when it comes to this organization.
 
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DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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They would be nutz NOT to max Durant out since allowing him to walk doesn't not free up any cap space. The Warriors have already taken in over $2B in revenue (yes that is BILLION!) from the new arena in the form of tickets, suites, and sponsorships.......the luxury tax and repeater tax is way behind the curve when it comes to this organization.
The Warriors owners went from scraping together and begging for last second investors in the wake of the financial crisis to watching their investment go up by almost eight times over the past ~nine years.

As everyone knows, they have a brand new arena and lots of new corporate ("tech bro") season ticket holders who will lose interest quickly if the team's star power dims and/or they fall back into the pack. There is no doubt it will hurt them with the luxury tax however they have every incentive to bring back both Thompson and Durant to make their transition to what amounts to an "upgraded" fanbase go more smoothly.

Things can change of course, especially with the type of money we are discussing. However their best option for keeping the party going is to run it back with essentially the same core, even if they have to wait most or even all of the '19-20 season to see two of their stars return to action.
 
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lovegtm

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The Warriors owners went from scraping together and begging for last second investors in the wake of the financial crisis to watching their investment go by almost eight times over the past ~nine years.

As everyone knows, they have a brand new arena and lots of new corporate ("tech bro") season ticket holders who will lose interest quickly if the team's star power dims and/or they fall back into the pack. There is no doubt it will hurt them with the luxury tax however they have every incentive to bring back both Thompson and Durant to make their transition to what amounts to an "upgraded" fanbase go more smoothly.

Things can change of course, especially with the type of money we are discussing. However their best option for keeping the party going is to run it back with essentially the same core, even if they have to wait most or even all of the '19-20 season to see two of their stars return to action.
Agree with this, now that HRB posted the numbers. I think the real question is whether they'll do something creative like trade Draymond for premium assets, tank this year for a high pick, then flip that all that into assets alongside the Steph/Klay/KD core, and pray for health.

The actual solution will look different from that, but I wouldn't be at all surprised to see them pull a Spurs tanking for Duncan type move.
 
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