Offseason Thread - Betty when you call me, you can call me Al

Big John

lurker
Dec 9, 2016
1,757
Is there any harm in bringing IT4 back in the Shane Larkin role?
I kinda like the idea of bringing Shane Larkin back in the Shane Larkin role. Larkin had an outstanding year; arguably he was the best pg in Europe. I think his deal in Turkey was just for one year.
 

Cellar-Door

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 1, 2006
14,716
I don't get the Capela talk at all. This is not to say that Clint Capela isn't a good player - in the right system, like he has in Houston, he can be very effective. But he is surrounded by good shooting which gives him a lot of room to roam on PnRs etc. He would not have that sort of shooting in Boston unless Ainge is really going to blow up the roster this summer. He cannot shoot away from the post so he does nothing to bolster the Celtics offense.

As for defense, Capela is ok but not great - he isn't an elite shot blocker and he often gets targeted for screens by opposing teams. If the C's are going with the "play the kids" approach, I would prefer to see what TimeLord has vs bringing in a more highly paid veteran who has a fairly limited skill set.
I don't see a trade that works, but I think he's a great player. He's one of the best defenders in the league, he's a very good rim protector (20th in BLK rate last year, 3rd the year before), he's an amazing finisher at the rim as the roll man, maybe the best in the league. He doesn't stretch the floor, but neither did Baynes the year before last and he was still a huge asset, Capela is a much much better version of Baynes on a good deal.

As to system/shooting... the Celtics were 7th in 3pt% last year, 2nd the year before both years finishing above the Rockets. This team should be one of the better 3pt shooting teams in the league again this year
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 24, 2002
29,062
I don't see a trade that works, but I think he's a great player. He's one of the best defenders in the league, he's a very good rim protector (20th in BLK rate last year, 3rd the year before), he's an amazing finisher at the rim as the roll man, maybe the best in the league. He doesn't stretch the floor, but neither did Baynes the year before last and he was still a huge asset, Capela is a much much better version of Baynes on a good deal.

As to system/shooting... the Celtics were 7th in 3pt% last year, 2nd the year before both years finishing above the Rockets. This team should be one of the better 3pt shooting teams in the league again this year
Again, I like Clint Capela but I am not sure where you get that he is one of the best defenders in the league. And I would not refer to him as a "very good rim protector" either but YRMV - he wasn't much better in terms of BPG than Horford last season and nobody would refer to Al as a rim protector either.

Finally, the Celtics were indeed seventh in 3p% last year and second the year before. However they are almost certainly losing their best volume three point shooter for those two seasons. In addition their second best three point shooter for last season is a FA and had a career year shooting behind the arc at volume so even if he returns he is likely looking at regression. We don't know what the ceiling is for the Js in terms of deep shooting because the league seemed to adjust to them (Tatum in particular) and both struggled with shot selection last season.

In short, I am not as confident as others here that the Celtics will be able to fill the shooting void left by Kyrie with his shooting and the spacing he causes with opposing defenses.
 
Last edited:

nighthob

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
7,782
Agreed. Unless there is a surprise trade for Conley or something, bringing Rozier back on a Smart type deal seems reasonable for both sides. Rozier gets his starting role and Celtics keep their asset.
And having Rozier on a reasonable deal opens up a lot of trade avenues for them next summer. Had T-Ro signed one in October he’d probably have been the ballast for a Davis deal.

I don’t get what we’d be giving up for Capela. Time Lord would surely be in deal since he’s a raw Capela. But how are the salaries getting matched?
The talk was Houston being interested in Horford, I think Boston might potentially be interested as part of a three way deal (say something like Horford/Brown going out and Capela/Beal coming back). But that’s really the only circumstance where I see it.

A S&T isn't happening, as it hard caps the Celtics
It hard caps the Nets, not the Celtics. It’s a moot point with ROC Nation involved (given the connections between that agency and the Nets org), but if Wechsler were still around Boston could have worked something out with his cooperation.
 

NomarsFool

Member
SoSH Member
Dec 21, 2001
3,215
Renegotiating Al for the next two years is an easy no brainer. The Celtics aren't going to be able to bring in a major free agent until Hayward is off the books in two years. The question, though, is would having Al on the roster get in the way two years from now? I'm hoping by that time JB and JT are in their prime, and the Celtics would be looking to add that 3rd star.
 

HowBoutDemSox

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 12, 2009
3,979
Renegotiating Al for the next two years is an easy no brainer. The Celtics aren't going to be able to bring in a major free agent until Hayward is off the books in two years. The question, though, is would having Al on the roster get in the way two years from now? I'm hoping by that time JB and JT are in their prime, and the Celtics would be looking to add that 3rd star.
Depending on what his new deal looks like, he could make for usual salary ballast as an expiring at that point.
 

DrewDawg

Dorito Dink
SoSH Member
Dec 16, 2010
35,896
Renegotiating Al for the next two years is an easy no brainer. The Celtics aren't going to be able to bring in a major free agent until Hayward is off the books in two years. The question, though, is would having Al on the roster get in the way two years from now? I'm hoping by that time JB and JT are in their prime, and the Celtics would be looking to add that 3rd star.
Speaking of Hayward--do we think he moves back to starting lineup? And depending on who the PG is, does the offense run through him?
 

DrewDawg

Dorito Dink
SoSH Member
Dec 16, 2010
35,896

Sources tell me Patrick Beverley--a sensible FA target of the Bulls and Lakers--will be taking meetings with as many as 5 teams BEFORE meeting with the Clippers in 2 weeks. Clippers will be chasing max-type FAs, but Beverley won't necessarily wait on an offer from them, I'm told.
 

benhogan

Baynes Hogan (pending trade)
SoSH Member
Nov 2, 2007
6,665
Santa Monica
Speaking of Hayward--do we think he moves back to starting lineup? And depending on who the PG is, does the offense run through him?
If Hayward is healthy I could see him OR Jaylen being trade chips. I like Sabonis, the Pacers desperately need wings, have several bigs signed and the cap space.

I'd also love to trade some of our draft stock & TL for Monte Morris, PG.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 24, 2002
29,062
I love Beverley but he probably isn't the best fit for the Celtics. Furthermore, as was noted by the Tweet, he is going to have plenty of suitors who will offer him a bigger role than he might get in Boston.

Finally, assuming Irving is gone, the Celtics need more scoring - as opposed to defense - regardless of what happens with Horford. I wonder if Ainge/Zarren addresses that via a trade vs free agency where any kind of good scoring player is going to command more money than the Celtics can offer unless they do something creative.
 

benhogan

Baynes Hogan (pending trade)
SoSH Member
Nov 2, 2007
6,665
Santa Monica
I love Beverley but he probably isn't the best fit for the Celtics. Furthermore, as was noted by the Tweet, he is going to have plenty of suitors who will offer him a bigger role than he might get in Boston.

Finally, assuming Irving is gone, the Celtics need more scoring - as opposed to defense - regardless of what happens with Horford. I wonder if Ainge/Zarren addresses that via a trade vs free agency where any kind of good scoring player is going to command more money than the Celtics can offer unless they do something creative.
If the Celtics bring back Rozier to start, Beverly (high volume, efficient 3pt shooter) would be an excellent back-up PG. He probably has "plenty of suitors", because he's very good.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 24, 2002
29,062
If the Celtics bring back Rozier to start, Beverly (high volume, efficient 3pt shooter) would be an excellent back-up PG. He probably has "plenty of suitors", because he's very good.
I don't think Beverly has designs on being a back up PG but who knows? The guy has averaged more MPG than Rozier over the past six seasons (and you can throw out his '17-18 season as well). He is a good shooter but I wouldn't refer to someone who averages about four three point attempts per game as a high volume shooter (Jae Crowder, who shot pretty poorly from deep this season, averaged about seven threes per game for reference - I would refer to him or a Wayne Ellington as volume shooters).

Finally, we can agree that he has plenty of suitors because he is a good player. My point is that he probably isn't going to take the same or less money to come and play 20+ minutes per game, especially for a team that is unlikely to contend.
 
Last edited:

benhogan

Baynes Hogan (pending trade)
SoSH Member
Nov 2, 2007
6,665
Santa Monica
I don't think Beverly has designs on being a back up PG but who knows? The guy has averaged more MPG than Rozier over the past six seasons (and you can throw out his '17-18 season as well). He is a good shooter but I wouldn't refer to someone who averages about four three point attempts per game as a high volume shooter (Jae Crowder, who shot pretty poorly from deep this season, averaged about seven threes per game for reference - I would refer to him or a Wayne Ellington as volume shooters).

Finally, we can agree that he has plenty of suitors because he is a good player. My point is that he probably isn't going to take the same or less money to come and play 20+ minutes per game, especially for a team that is unlikely to contend.
Yea you're right, he's going to want a starting job.

As much as you may disagree, Vegas gives the Celtics the 8th highest odds of winning the NBA Championship (if Kahwi jumps ship, the C's would probably go to 7). All the contenders except the Lakers and Celtics have PG's in place. So if they don't sign Terry*, Danny could probably offer more $$$ than the Lakers and a starting gig.


*but I believe Danny is signing Rozier when Kyrie leaves
 
Last edited:

DrewDawg

Dorito Dink
SoSH Member
Dec 16, 2010
35,896
One league source suggested that Washington would need to strongly consider Tatum, Smart, and a pick? No kidding???
 

lexrageorge

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 31, 2007
7,587
If the C's renounced their cap holds and also don't re-sign Kyrie and Horford, what's the maximum amount of cap space they could have?
If they renounce everything, they would be around $30m. But they would have quite a few roster spots to fill with vet min guys.
 
Last edited:

Cellar-Door

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 1, 2006
14,716
I doubt the Celtics renounce anything, they'd rather be over the cap. Even if they only bring back 1 of Morris/Rozier/Horford and one of the Bird guys Theis and Wanamaker, they'd probably be looking to make some trades to end up over the cap so they get the better exception.

Though honestly I expect Horford back on a 2-3 year front-loaded deal
 

DrewDawg

Dorito Dink
SoSH Member
Dec 16, 2010
35,896
I doubt the Celtics renounce anything, they'd rather be over the cap. Even if they only bring back 1 of Morris/Rozier/Horford and one of the Bird guys Theis and Wanamaker, they'd probably be looking to make some trades to end up over the cap so they get the better exception.

Though honestly I expect Horford back on a 2-3 year front-loaded deal
One of the Boston writers was guessing 3 years/$65 million.
 

Cellar-Door

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 1, 2006
14,716
That's a bargain. He was scheduled to make $31 million if he opted in. That means the C's would be getting two additional years of Horford for 17 per. That's damn cheap for a player of Alfred J. Horford's caliber.
yeah, I was just talking structure based on the 3/65 rumor. If I were him I'd ask for a similarly structured 3/75 at least.

29/25/21 or even 31/26/18
 

DrewDawg

Dorito Dink
SoSH Member
Dec 16, 2010
35,896
I can't find source document, but this says Kevin Arnovitz has mentioned Celtics looking into Jrue Holiday:



And Givony says they're asking about the #4 pick as well.
 

clemcooper

lurker
Dec 7, 2016
6
Boston, MA
I can't find source document, but this says Kevin Arnovitz has mentioned Celtics looking into Jrue Holiday:
The source material was a throwaway comment on Zach Lowe's podcast yesterday. Not a lot of substance to be had, frankly; it sounded much more like a "hey, wouldn't that be interesting" what-if scenario than actual intel. Arnovitz's exact quote (in response to a question from Lowe about how to view the Celtic's current outlook): "Let's see. First of all, maybe we get Jrue Holiday there. That would be fun."

That's it.
 

DrewDawg

Dorito Dink
SoSH Member
Dec 16, 2010
35,896
The source material was a throwaway comment on Zach Lowe's podcast yesterday. Not a lot of substance to be had, frankly; it sounded much more like a "hey, wouldn't that be interesting" what-if scenario than actual intel. Arnovitz's exact quote (in response to a question from Lowe about how to view the Celtic's current outlook): "Let's see. First of all, maybe we get Jrue Holiday there. That would be fun."

That's it.
Okay, thanks.

I would imagine that if they've talked to NO about the #4 Holiday's name came up, but probably more as due diligence.
 

nattysez

Member
SoSH Member
Sep 30, 2010
3,770
I have no idea why he'd do this unless he just cannot stand the idea of living in Sacramento another year.


(Tweet says Barnes is declining his $25m player option)
 

BigSoxFan

Member
SoSH Member
May 31, 2007
31,460
I have no idea why he'd do this unless he just cannot stand the idea of living in Sacramento another year.


(Tweet says Barnes is declining his $25m player option)
Clearly wants to lock in more guaranteed money and must have confidence that he’ll be a prime secondary target for teams but, man, I would just take the $25M and try next year. Wonder if the KD/Klay injuries are impacting how guys are thinking.
 

Cellar-Door

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 1, 2006
14,716
I have no idea why he'd do this unless he just cannot stand the idea of living in Sacramento another year.


(Tweet says Barnes is declining his $25m player option)
This looks like a suddenly weak FA class, Klay re-signing, Durant hurt, Kyrie going to Brooklyn, Kawhi maybe re-signing, Kemba maybe re-signing.Good chance multiple teams whiff entirely, and NBA teams aren't known for their ability to just hold on to cap space. He probably looked at the market, saw a lot of free money that might not be there next year, a suddenly weak class, and his agent poked around and saw 4/80+ guaranteed out there for him. Even if he doesn't make quite the 25M back this year, a longer deal at close to that is worth the 1 year loss
 

RedOctober3829

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 19, 2005
39,261
deep inside Guido territory
A year after signing a max deal in your mid 30's. Hate to see it, Houston. Chris Paul has demanded a trade out of Houston because him and Harden can't get along.

The delicate relationship between Houston Rockets stars James Harden and Chris Paul has been termed “unsalvageable” and the star players want a divorce, league sources told Yahoo Sports.
Paul went to Rockets management and demanded a trade, and Harden issued a “him or me” edict following the Rockets’ second-round loss to the Golden State Warriors, sources said.
The backcourt mates went nearly two months without speaking to each other during the season, sources said, creating a tenuous environment for teammates and everyone involved with the franchise.
Harden hasn’t returned Paul’s repeated attempts at communicating this offseason, sources said, after a year in which the pair repeatedly got under each other’s skin with petty acts in practices and games.
Harden’s ball-dominant style and unwillingness to give others like Paul space to operate have grated on Paul, leading to the nine-time All-Star issuing his trade demand to Rockets general manager Daryl Morey after the season.
Sources said Paul would curse at head coach Mike D’Antoni about the offense bogging down after Harden would ask to come into the game to join the second unit, with Paul heading to the bench.
“It can’t be fixed,” another league source told Yahoo Sports about the Harden-Paul partnership.
The situation is indeed bad, a source said, and the players are frustrated with the system and surprised that D'Antoni trusts Harden so much that he allows such leeway on the court.
Morey has been shopping Paul and others in an attempt to revamp the roster, but Paul’s contract, which calls for him to earn $38.5 million, $41.3 million and $44.2 million the next three seasons, is hard for other teams to swallow.
 

lovegtm

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 30, 2013
4,566
Kiev, Ukraine
Would anyone out there trade for Paul?
I could talk myself into it as a GM if some bad salary went the other way, but I don't even know who's in the neighborhood. That's a brutal contract given the health issues and age. Feel like we already saw this play out with Melo--the decline was very sudden.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 24, 2002
29,062
I'd trade Hayward for Paul if Hayward was cool with it.
If Celtics fans disliked Kyrie Irving, imagine what it would be like to root for Chris Paul and his perpetual sneer, his incessant whining and his never-ending stream of lower extremity injuries.
 

moondog80

heart is two sizes two small
SoSH Member
Sep 20, 2005
5,179
I'd trade Hayward for Paul if Hayward was cool with it.
Paul is owed 38.5, 41.4, and 44.2 mil the next three years.
Hayward is owed 32.7 and 34.2 over the next two.

That's a decent gap the next two years with a pretty big pill to swallow in 2021-22.