2022-2023 General Celtics thread

PedroKsBambino

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Orlando plays bigger and the guards are so-so….which doesn’t make it easy but there are worse team to play short handed in backcourt
 

InstaFace

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Orlando is 12-9 since their 5-20 start when they were decimated with injuries. The Magic are more than formidable and the game is in Orlando where they’ve won 7 of 10…..they aren’t the Pistons or Rockets
Fair enough! Expectations duly lowered. When I said I wanted to rest guys these next few months, I knew that probably meant a few extra losses. If this is one of them, or even if this + MIA are two of them... so be it. Or if Al Horford can become Altered Beast and steal everyone's soul at the end of the game and we come out with a win like last night, awesome, but I sure won't be expecting it.
 

lexrageorge

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Fair enough! Expectations duly lowered. When I said I wanted to rest guys these next few months, I knew that probably meant a few extra losses. If this is one of them, or even if this + MIA are two of them... so be it. Or if Al Horford can become Altered Beast and steal everyone's soul at the end of the game and we come out with a win like last night, awesome, but I sure won't be expecting it.
We can certainly expect to see more load management in the dog days of January and February. But Tatum is going to be up for the matchup against Butler down in Miami, so there's that. Still, there's an opportunity to see what the deeper rotation players can do. Be a good time for Hauser, as an example, to start making shots again.

If Williams is healthy for one of those B2B's, he should play. A week off is also OK. However, shutting him down for 2 weeks despite being healthy sounds good in theory, but really could set him back as it does take a while for a player to get their timing and game legs back after a layoff. He's going to need to play some meaningless games in the dog days.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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I certainly wouldn't bet against this C's team right now but Orlando is a tough match-up as @HomeRunBaker notes (Paolo has a chance to be really, really good imo) and we know about the Heat. If they go 0-2, we'll get some jittery folks but this team is a monster at full strength right now. Its just January/February in the NBA.
 

Euclis20

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I certainly wouldn't bet against this C's team right now but Orlando is a tough match-up as @HomeRunBaker notes (Paolo has a chance to be really, really good imo) and we know about the Heat. If they go 0-2, we'll get some jittery folks but this team is a monster at full strength right now. Its just January/February in the NBA.
Agree, I'd take Paolo over anyone drafted since Luka. That plus it was just last month that we lost back to back home games against the Magic. It shouldn't be hard to take them seriously.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Fair enough! Expectations duly lowered. When I said I wanted to rest guys these next few months, I knew that probably meant a few extra losses. If this is one of them, or even if this + MIA are two of them... so be it. Or if Al Horford can become Altered Beast and steal everyone's soul at the end of the game and we come out with a win like last night, awesome, but I sure won't be expecting it.
I don’t think it will really hurt us to do this as others are as well. Being the 1-seed would be great but having a disciplined, hungry and rested team trumps that by a mile. I still think we’ll get the one either way.
 

lovegtm

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I expect the Celtics to play hard and come up with one inspiring win, and one annoying loss. I don't know which game will be which, however--I could just as easily see them losing to Orlando in an emotional letdown after these last 2 games, and then getting amped for Miami.

All good either way; as always, the NBA season is too long.
 

joe dokes

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FWIW- The coach agrees with the "shoulda called a TO."
Shorthanded Celtics find a way in Toronto, beating Raptors for ninth straight win - The Boston Globe

After Toronto’s Pascal Siakam hit one of two free throws to pull his team within 2, Trent had an excellent chance to tie the game but missed an open layup with 21.5 seconds remaining. Horford grabbed the rebound and found Pritchard, who dribbled upcourt in an unsettled situation.
Mazzulla said afterward he should have used a timeout, but before he did, Pritchard’s pass was picked off by Trent. After a Toronto timeout, Siakam went directly toward the rim before having his attempt gobbled up by Horford, leading to a jump ball.
“Horford saved my [butt],” Mazzulla quipped.
I'm usually on Team "let the players figure it out," but they needed the TO there.

Didn't realize that the Celtics are the best defensive rebounding team in the NBA, by a decent margin.
I always wonder whether this is a function of their great defense causing more missed shots. Or is "best" defined in terms of percentage of available rebounds? (i am really not well-versed in advanced NBA stats.)
 
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Tudor Fever

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I expect the Celtics to play hard and come up with one inspiring win, and one annoying loss. I don't know which game will be which, however--I could just as easily see them losing to Orlando in an emotional letdown after these last 2 games, and then getting amped for Miami.

All good either way; as always, the NBA season is too long.
That makes sense. It wouldn’t be surprising at all if they mail it in tonight vs the Magic, who seem to have the C’s number this year anyway.

They currently have a 4.5 game cushion as the #1 seed in the East. And looking waaaaay ahead, the two top teams in the West lost yesterday. The closest team there is Denver, 2 games back.
 

chilidawg

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FWIW- The coach agrees with the "shoulda called a TO."
Shorthanded Celtics find a way in Toronto, beating Raptors for ninth straight win - The Boston Globe



I'm usually on Team "let the players figure it out," but they needed the TO there.



I always wonder whether this is a function of their great defense causing more missed shots. Or is "best" defined in terms of percentage of available rebounds? (i am really not well-versed in advanced NBA stats.)
They're 1st in DReb%, 4th in DReb/game. The latter is a function of pace and opponents missed shots as well as their ability to rebound.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/BOS/2023.html
 

Euclis20

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Didn't realize that the Celtics are the best defensive rebounding team in the NBA, by a decent margin.
And they are still pretty lousy at forcing turnovers, 26th in TOV%. Although maybe that doesn't matter that much - everyone agrees the Bucks defense is top 5, with 2 legit DPOY candidates, and they're dead last in TOV%.
 

lovegtm

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And they are still pretty lousy at forcing turnovers, 26th in TOV%. Although maybe that doesn't matter that much - everyone agrees the Bucks defense is top 5, with 2 legit DPOY candidates, and they're dead last in TOV%.
Yeah, I think as long as your offense is good (means you're not hurt by the lack of transition) and your defense is good, low turnover rate isn't a big deal.

Celtics check both those boxes; Bucks, one.
 

NomarsFool

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If I'm a team with a few Firsts (Charlotte, Utah, Knicks, Pacers, Orlando) I'd rather ADD a Payton Pritchard extended on a cheap deal than ADD another late first. Lots of rookie development at once is tricky.
Depending on where those picks land, they may also just package them to move up. You're completely right, you can't have too many rookies coming in at once. So, they will need to do something.
 

nighthob

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Depending on where those picks land, they may also just package them to move up. You're completely right, you can't have too many rookies coming in at once. So, they will need to do something.
Moving up in the draft for just picks isn't a thing like it used to be. Even the last major transaction in that regard ended disastrously for the team moving down. Those trades nearly never work out for GMs not named Red or Danny.
 

lovegtm

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That one played out about how I thought it would. Hard to keep up the energy when lots of people are missing and you've just played a couple emotional, down-to-the-wire games.
 

benhogan

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That one played out about how I thought it would. Hard to keep up the energy when lots of people are missing and you've just played a couple emotional, down-to-the-wire games.
Not terribly optimistic about tonight's game as they played hot potato with the ball (18 TOs). That's right in Miami's wheelhouse.

At least the death of Hauser's shot seems to be a bit premature.

Also watching Kabengele play non-important 4th Quarter minutes further emphasizes where this team is thin.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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More to the point, where in Boston's results does the Celtics thinness at a third string position that maybe plays 12-14 mpg show up? Are they a 40 win team with a better third string player? Undefeated? What meat is being left on the bone?

Its understandable that a team depending on TL needs options but his absences haven't completely sunk the team yet.

Where is the problem?
 
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benhogan

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There is ZERO problem. They are the deepest team in the NBA. BUT IF Brad adds a 9th man, I'd expect it to be an athletic center type.

As opposed to a WING, where those minutes are more than ably covered.

Horford's best position is at the 4 next to a Center. When you drag him to the Center position your rim protection is... Derrick White??? jk

The numbers/position semantics aside, we're very Robert Williams-dependent. Mostly due to how great TL is, which is a good thing. BUT the obvious downside is the Celtics are levered to his injury history.

Kornet is somewhat playable. Blake, Vonleh, and Kabengele are the definitions of bad/fungible 5s (min. bodies).

Finding a reasonable, athletic Center (to backup TL) that can rim-protect will be tough. But it's the one position Brad could look to add to in the next few weeks or this Summer to put the finishing touches on a Championship favorite.
 
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SteveF

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Poeltl can single cover Embiid and Jokic credibly in the context of a playoff series. That and he can soak up center minutes during the regular season. There will be playoff matchups where it's hard to keep him on the floor (maybe Cleveland with their guards, certainly Golden State), but if you think Philly and Denver are legit contenders, then Poeltl makes a great deal of sense to me if the price is right. (I'm pretty sure he'll get traded to someone else, though.)

I think they have enough to beat those teams as is given Boston presents matchup issues to Embiid and Jokic as well (since they can't switch, I'd expect the Celtics to turn them into defensive liabilities).
 

benhogan

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Poeltl can single cover Embiid and Jokic credibly in the context of a playoff series. That and he can soak up center minutes during the regular season. There will be playoff matchups where it's hard to keep him on the floor (maybe Cleveland with their guards, certainly Golden State), but if you think Philly and Denver are legit contenders, then Poeltl makes a great deal of sense to me if the price is right. (I'm pretty sure he'll get traded to someone else, though.)

I think they have enough to beat those teams as is given Boston presents matchup issues to Embiid and Jokic as well (since they can't switch, I'd expect the Celtics to turn them into defensive liabilities).
Right, you get it. Playing Milwaukee/Memphis along with Phila/Cleve/Denver is where that backup 5 would come in handy, even with a healthy/functioning 100% Rob Williams.

I'm bringing this up because we rarely get a glimpse of what the playoff rotations would look like in the middle of a regular season. BUT the Golden State game gave us an idea on player/position rotations (GS isn't even an opponent where a backup 5 would be all that necessary). In addition to that, the last 2 games also hammered home the point that adding an additional WING is not the place where Brad will use precious trade assets.

It doesn't even have to be Poeltl, just a Center more defensively agile/experienced than Luke.
 

nighthob

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Poeltl can single cover Embiid and Jokic credibly in the context of a playoff series. That and he can soak up center minutes during the regular season. There will be playoff matchups where it's hard to keep him on the floor (maybe Cleveland with their guards, certainly Golden State), but if you think Philly and Denver are legit contenders, then Poeltl makes a great deal of sense to me if the price is right. (I'm pretty sure he'll get traded to someone else, though.)

I think they have enough to beat those teams as is given Boston presents matchup issues to Embiid and Jokic as well (since they can't switch, I'd expect the Celtics to turn them into defensive liabilities).
The problem with Poetl is that his acquisition cost is high and he will be leaving at season’s end because he has zero interest in being a third string C.

EDIT: I wonder if Orlando would be reasonable about their spare C, Mo Bamba? He has no role there and is a pending RFA.
 

HomeRunBaker

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The problem with Poetl is that his acquisition cost is high and he will be leaving at season’s end because he has zero interest in being a third string C.

EDIT: I wonder if Orlando would be reasonable about their spare C, Mo Bamba? He has no role there and is a pending RFA.
I know we’ve spoken about Bamba previously. Every time I see him I’m trying to consider options to beat the Joe Barry Carroll/JBC, Joe Barely Cares acronym. What can we create out of MFB?
 

MyDaughterLovesTomGordon

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It will be interesting to see if TimeLord gets pushed up to 30 minutes or so, considering the shorthandedness.

This could be a 20+ turnover game.

Is Brogdon having a kid?
 

bigq

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Tonight would also be a good night for Grant Williams, who was MIA in Orlando, to show up.
Grant Williams may very well get 40 minutes of playing time tonight. Hope he has his A Game on.
 

benhogan

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The problem with Poetl is that his acquisition cost is high and he will be leaving at season’s end because he has zero interest in being a third string C.

EDIT: I wonder if Orlando would be reasonable about their spare C, Mo Bamba? He has no role there and is a pending RFA.
Agreed, Poeltl will be well bid. Miami/GS are ahead of Boston in the queue

Bamba is the perfect type of player/build but the dude seems perpetually uninterested/unhappy

I hope Brad is perusing the Wizard yard sale and willing to take Daniel Gafford off their hands
1. 15-18mpg when TL is super, duper healthy
2. 30mpg when TL needs a day off or is injured

Unseld Jr has decided to cut Daniel's starts & minutes this season after he signed a reasonable 3yr/$40M extension (starts next year). Unfortunately, due to injuries, Unseld was forced to play Porzingis/Gafford together. They've been their best pairing since.

I know we’ve spoken about Bamba previously. Every time I see him I’m trying to consider options to beat the Joe Barry Carroll/JBC, Joe Barely Cares acronym. What can we create out of MFB?
MFB = Miserable Far-king Brat
 

HomeRunBaker

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Agreed, Poeltl will be well bid. Miami/GS are ahead of Boston in the queue

Bamba is the perfect type of player/build but the dude seems perpetually uninterested/unhappy

I hope Brad is perusing the Wizard yard sale and willing to take Daniel Gafford off their hands
1. 15-18mpg when TL is super, duper healthy
2. 30mpg when TL needs a day off or is injured

Unseld Jr has decided to cut Daniel's starts & minutes this season after he signed a reasonable 3yr/$40M extension (starts next year). Unfortunately, due to injuries, Unseld was forced to play Porzingis/Gafford together. They've been their best pairing since.
Gafford began the year in the doghouse for whatever reason (enjoying that new contract feeing too much?) but he’s been a flat out stud over the past month or two. The Wiz have never looked to bottom out under Leonsis and I suspect that moving Hashimura was simply due to his agents contract demands as he’s a RFA this summer while being redundant to/playing behind Kuzma. Gafford is controlled for several years….I highly doubt he’s moved although I love how he’s competing and would love to get him.
 

benhogan

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Gafford began the year in the doghouse for whatever reason (enjoying that new contract feeing too much?) but he’s been a flat out stud over the past month or two. The Wiz have never looked to bottom out under Leonsis and I suspect that moving Hashimura was simply due to his agents contract demands as he’s a RFA this summer while being redundant to/playing behind Kuzma. Gafford is controlled for several years….I highly doubt he’s moved although I love how he’s competing and would love to get him.
Is it too much to ask for a TimeLord facsimile? We need to have an athletic freak always at the 5, makes the game much more fun to watch.

You're correct, it's very, very doubtful...I just don't get Gafford playing fewer minutes & starting less than last year. Go Zards!
 
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Saints Rest

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Is it too much to ask for a TimeLord facsimile? We need to have an athletic freak always at the 5, makes the game much more fun to watch.

You're correct, it's very, very doubtful...I just don't get Gafford playing fewer minutes & starting less than last year. Go Zards!
The issue is that a TL facsimile will expect (and deserve) to get starter minutes and starter money, unless they manage to find another TL late in the draft again.

So, realistically, your best hope is a buyout/rental for 2-3 months or you are settling for the Unikornet which is likely better than anything that will be available in trade.
 

benhogan

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The issue is that a TL facsimile will expect (and deserve) to get starter minutes and starter money, unless they manage to find another TL late in the draft again.

So, realistically, your best hope is a buyout/rental for 2-3 months or you are settling for the Unikornet which is likely better than anything that will be available in trade.
Gafford's money is already spelled out over the next 3.5 years. Brad has seemed to value that in his deals.
He's at $2MM this year and then $40 over the following 3 seasons

He averaged 20mpg when he signed that extension with the Zards. He'd get that in Boston with the amount of shrink wrappage on TL/Al over the next 3 seasons.
 
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HomeRunBaker

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Gafford's money is already spelled out over the next 3.5 years. Brad has seemed to value that in his deals.
He's at $2MM this year and then $40 over the following 3 seasons

He averaged 20mpg when he signed that extension with the Zards. He'd get that in Boston with the amount of shrink wrappage on TL/Al over the next 3 seasons.
Gafford is playing about 24 mpg now which is up from last year. He’s a role player playing role player minutes without a perimeter offensive game and struggles defensively against PNR. He’s limited but does provide a role on good teams and his contract moving forward is very reasonable.
 

Eddie Jurak

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Celtics had every chance to steal one tonight, actually got up by 10 in the 4th quarter, and then they did their "let's go 6 minutes without running a good offensive set never mind scoring." Tatum, who was great in quarters 1 2 and 3, was awful in the 4th.

The Celtics are not that great when it comes to playing with a small late lead. I think they lean a bit too far into "let's run clock and play not to lose" in those situations. That was not the issue tonight though.
 

128

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That Brogdon's two-game (at least) leave of absence coincided with yet another Smart injury is just brutal for the C's. I'm guessing with Malcolm in the lineup they do no worse than a split in Florida.

I love Marcus, but his playing style lends itself to injuries, and they seem to keep piling up.
 

benhogan

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Celtics had every chance to steal one tonight, actually got up by 10 in the 4th quarter, and then they did their "let's go 6 minutes without running a good offensive set never mind scoring." Tatum, who was great in quarters 1 2 and 3, was awful in the 4th.

The Celtics are not that great when it comes to playing with a small late lead. I think they lean a bit too far into "let's run clock and play not to lose" in those situations. That was not the issue tonight though.
I honestly think all we learned last night was don't depend on deep bench players in a tight game.

Miami zoned them into 37pts in the 2nd half :eek:

Grant, Pritch, and Hauser all were given a shot to come up big with major minutes and didn't get it done.
While Haywood Highsmith delivered for Miami
 

lexrageorge

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That Brogdon's two-game (at least) leave of absence coincided with yet another Smart injury is just brutal for the C's. I'm guessing with Malcolm in the lineup they do no worse than a split in Florida.

I love Marcus, but his playing style lends itself to injuries, and they seem to keep piling up.
I do think some vacation time and load management for Smart is warranted the rest of this season.

I honestly think all we learned last night was don't depend on deep bench players in a tight game.

Miami zoned them into 37pts in the 2nd half :eek:

Grant, Pritch, and Hauser all were given a shot to come up big with major minutes and didn't get it done.
While Haywood Highsmith delivered for Miami
Grant had a key 3 that tied the game in the Celtics penultimate possession. A lot of was asked of the deep bench, and they did make a valiant effort on the road of a B2B.