Honestly I think we better prepare ourselves for a secondary that looks a lot more like the 2011-12-13 versions.jsinger121 said:There is literally no good corners left. Pats prolly will head to the trade market and the draft.
Honestly I think we better prepare ourselves for a secondary that looks a lot more like the 2011-12-13 versions.jsinger121 said:There is literally no good corners left. Pats prolly will head to the trade market and the draft.
Yes, its obvious from the way they are building the team this offseason that secondary is not going to be the strength that it was last year, More than one way to skin a cat, and I dont think the existing secondary is the catastrophe that some others think it is, but yes this secondary will not play like the '14 secondary.ivanvamp said:Honestly I think we better prepare ourselves for a secondary that looks a lot more like the 2011-12-13 versions.
We're still a long way from knowing what the secondary will look like when the season opens. Between trades, veteran cuts and draft picks, it's not at all a certainty that the secondary will be Butler, Ryan, Arrington and Dennard. But damn, with free agency coming and seemingly going regarding CBs, this feels for now like when the Pats lost Branch and Givens from their WR corps and were left to fill in with seeds and stems.Stitch01 said:Yes, its obvious from the way they are building the team this offseason that secondary is not going to be the strength that it was last year, More than one way to skin a cat, and I dont think the existing secondary is the catastrophe that some others think it is, but yes this secondary will not play like the '14 secondary.
Corsi said:
TheoShmeo said:We're still a long way from knowing what the secondary will look like when the season opens. Between trades, veteran cuts and draft picks, it's not at all a certainty that the secondary will be Butler, Ryan, Arrington and Dennard. But damn, with free agency coming and seemingly going regarding CBs, this feels for now like when the Pats lost Branch and Givens from their WR corps and were left to fill in with seeds and stems.
See, that's where I disagree somewhat. I think this is a materially better position group even as is. There's a Pro Bowl player in his prime in McCourty, a guy who has had a few years of success in the system in the right matchups in Arrington, three corners on their rookie deals who have shown flashes of success/promise (Ryan/Dennard with a role that plays to his strengths more available/Butler) , a vet who did a solid job last year in Chung (although I think his effectiveness is hurt with the personnel changes) as well as Harmon and, to a lesser extent Wilson. There are pieces there to work with.TheoShmeo said:We're still a long way from knowing what the secondary will look like when the season opens. Between trades, veteran cuts and draft picks, it's not at all a certainty that the secondary will be Butler, Ryan, Arrington and Dennard. But damn, with free agency coming and seemingly going regarding CBs, this feels for now like when the Pats lost Branch and Givens from their WR corps and were left to fill in with seeds and stems.
Obviously I don't have any insight into how Belichick / Patricia / Boyer feel about Dennard, but we can look at his usage pattern last year:Shelterdog said:
I realize that a lot of fans don't like Arringon, Ryan or Dennard much but those three are athletes in what should be their primes who have all played quite a bit for the team (56 regular season starts for Arrington, 20 for Dennard, 13 for Ryan). They're a far cry from a Roman Gabriel.
Dennard is the big question mark. Was he benched because he was somewhat injured and not useful as a backup corner who can't (unlike Butler) play special teams or was he benched because he's in a permanent doghouse? If the team had some confidence that he'd be as good in 2015 as he was in 2013 I'd fell an awful lot better.
Super Nomario said:Obviously I don't have any insight into how Belichick / Patricia / Boyer feel about Dennard, but we can look at his usage pattern last year:
Week 1: 52 / 76 snaps, starting opposite Revis (Browner on suspension)
Weeks 2 - 4: inactive (late scratch Week 2 with shoulder issue, missed next two games)
Weeks 5 - 6: 55/55, 66/69, starting opposite Revis (Browner inactive)
Week 7: 50/87, slot corner (24/50 snaps) with Revis / Browner as top 2 (Arrington just 1 snap)
Week 8-11 (3 games + bye): healthy scratch, Butler plays 15, 37, 0
Week 12-13: 8/82, 11/74: 5th CB, Butler healthy scratch
Weeks 14-16: healthy scratch, Butler plays 0, 22, 0
Week 17: goes on IR
So with Browner unavailable (Weeks 1-6), Dennard started and played extensively, except when hurt. When Browner came back, they tried Dennard in the slot, but gave up on that after one game. That put him behind Revis and Browner on the outside, and behind Arrington and Ryan in the slot, so he was jockeying with Butler for 5th CB. Butler provides some special teams value but not a lot (61 snaps in 15 games), while Dennard doesn't provide any (literally zero). So I guess it comes down to: was that because they like Butler, or they soured on Dennard? Revis, Browner, Ryan, and Butler all stayed healthy, with Arrington missing just one game (Week 16 against the passing-inept Jets) so there weren't a lot of opportunities on the field for Dennard.
So I wrote all this up and ended up basically with the same question you started with. To quote Mitch Hedberg, "I should have just said, 'Yeah.'"
My issue isn't with each of them. It's with having a CB group made up of only them. It reminds me a little of the Sox rotation. None of them are alarming individually but a group with just them causes me some concern. It would be nice to have an "ace" or near "ace" (in both scenarios). Not that one will not emerge eventually. And not that the baseball-football analogy is at all perfect.Shelterdog said:
I realize that a lot of fans don't like Arringon, Ryan or Dennard much but those three are athletes in what should be their primes who have all played quite a bit for the team (56 regular season starts for Arrington, 20 for Dennard, 13 for Ryan). They're a far cry from a Roman Gabriel.
Dennard is the big question mark. Was he benched because he was somewhat injured and not useful as a backup corner who can't (unlike Butler) play special teams or was he benched because he's in a permanent doghouse? If the team had some confidence that he'd be as good in 2015 as he was in 2013 I'd fell an awful lot better.
dcmissle said:If I recall correctly, we parted ways with Branch during the summer. It's early yet.
I am not sure the existing corners are all that bad. They certainly need depth. They could use a #1, but I'm very doubtful one is coming for this season barring a surprise. They need to compensate elsewhere.
Different Branch; unfortunately, we are discussing two of them right here and now.lithos2003 said:
Huh? I'm confused.. the Bills parted ways with Branch during the summer of 2014 (August) and the Pats signed him in October, where he played for the remainder of the year. Are you looking at this from the Bills standpoint?
https://twitter.com/RapSheet/status/577776931166273536Corsi said:#Bengals CB Terence Newman, who visited the #Vikings yesterday, is headed to New England for a #Patriots visit today, source says.
https://twitter.com/RapSheet/status/577776931166273536"]
link to tweet[/url]
BigSoxFan said:Terence Newman would be a disaster of Duane Starksian proportions.
BigSoxFan said:Terence Newman would be a disaster of Duane Starksian proportions.
jsinger121 said:Newman was cooked at least 2 years ago.
SeoulSoxFan said:
Newman was horrendous with Dallas in 2011. Has been more than adequate in Cinci until dropped off a bit last year.
It's not like he's had a veteran CB with some good work ethic to learn from hanging around lately.BigSoxFan said:Which is all I'd expect from a move like this. Although I'm not sure that guys like Ryan, Arrington, Butler, etc. need it. Maybe Dennard since his use has been spotty.
jsinger121 said:
Aaron Wilson @RavensInsider 6m6 minutes ago
According to Cowboys' official website, Greg Hardy will be at team facility within the next few hours
ProFootballTalk @ProFootballTalk 1m1 minute ago
Greg Hardy also plans to visit the Seahawks, per league source.
Mike Garafolo @MikeGarafolo now
New Chargers WR Stevie Johnson's deal is a three-year contract with a base value of $10.5 million plus additional performance values.
TheoShmeo said:My issue isn't with each of them. It's with having a CB group made up of only them. It reminds me a little of the Sox rotation. None of them are alarming individually but a group with just them causes me some concern. It would be nice to have an "ace" or near "ace" (in both scenarios). Not that one will not emerge eventually. And not that the baseball-football analogy is at all perfect.
As I wrote above and DCMissile reminds us, it's early. There's a long way between now and the opener. I'm just addressing the unlikely scenario that these are their four CBs in September.
jsinger121 said:
Newman was cooked at least 2 years ago.
BigSoxFan said:Terence Newman would be a disaster of Duane Starksian proportions.
Funny, I just read an article advocating Tillman to the Pats.Tito's Pullover said:In the veteran (old) CB department, Charles Tillman is still out there. He's 34 and coming off two consecutive season ending triceps injuries, but he was an all-pro his last healthy season.
I haven't heard any buzz about him, but I'd kick the tires on him if the money is low enough. I can't think of a better leader/character guy out there.
Tillman would be ideal if the Pats plan on running more zone. He's a terrific Cover 2 corner with the size to cover #1 WRs on man-to-man downs. On the downside, he just turned 34 and has missed 24 games over the last two seasons.RedOctober3829 said:Funny, I just read an article advocating Tillman to the Pats.
http://www.rantsports.com/nfl/2015/03/15/new-england-patriots-should-pursue-charles-tillman/
BigSoxFan said:Terence Newman would be a disaster of Duane Starksian proportions.
BigSoxFan said:Nope, never watched him. Like, not even once.
BigSoxFan said:For what, not understand a tongue-in-cheek comment? I've watched nearly his entire career and don't like him. Many of my Cowboys fan friends didn't like him. And he's 37 in Sept. He can be a training camp body and that's all I want.
BigSoxFan said:Nope, never watched him. Like, not even once.
No thanks. He has baggage and frankly isn't that good to over pay and sign away from Baltimore. It tells you alot what the Ravens think of him when they put him at the lowest tender.Stuffy McInnis said:Since the safety class is weak, I wonder if Baltimore RFA Will Hill would be worth a look. He was only tendered a 'original pick' tender, which, since he was originally undrafted, means no compensation at all if he's signed away. His current tender is worth 1.5M. He's not a smart guy and comes with baggage, but would be a way to get some size and physical talent into to the secondary.
Baltimore didn't value him at the second rounder tender level, so an offer around there (2.3M-ish) might be enough to steal him away.
DennyDoyle'sBoil said:Saints did not tender Travaris Cadet. http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/playerbreakingnews.asp?sport=NFL&id=7758&line=308281&spln=1 I wonder if the Patriots might take a look as a cheap alternative to Vereen.
RedOctober3829 said:@FieldYates: Source: the Patriots have signed former Saints RB Travaris Cadet.