2015 Colts: Karma Chameleon
- Thread starter Dr. Gonzo
- Start date
Van Everyman said:
You really should do some research before doubling-down on an assertion you've already been told is wrong. But, you didn't.
Jim Irsay became General Manager of the Colts in 1984, serving in that capacity until his father's stroke in 1995, and then became the official owner after Robert's death in 1997. During his decade-plus tenure as General Manager, the Colts went 67-119 with two playoff appearances. Polian arrived in 1998, after back-to-back 13-loss seasons in Irsay's first two seasons as owner/GM.
The "odds" are proven that Jim Irsay has a long, distinguished track record of making shitty football decisions. Irsay backing up the Brinks truck for Polian after 1997 is proof he can make ONE good football decision, in a 30+ year career of being a decision maker.
Further, Irsay's personal issues, erratic behavior, and general reputation as a trust-fund loser are well-earned around the NFL. Jim Irsay is unequivocally in the bottom rung of NFL owners and no one - not Bob Kravitz, not Gregg Doyel, not ballwashing Indy fans - would try to portray him as "at least pretty good at his job." Unless they've been drinking.
soxfan121 said:
I don't even know how much credit Irsay should get for hiring Polian, who was very widely viewed as one of the top personnel people in the game at the time. Hiring him if you could was a no-brainer for a lot of teams. The biggest reason he chose the Colts, rather than other possible destinations, was that they had the #1 pick in a draft that everybody knew included a generational QB prospect in Peyton Manning. In other words, if the Colts win an extra game in 1997 and don't end up with the #1 pick, no Peyton and no Polian.
I'm not disputing that Irsay sucked as a GM. I'm not even disputing that maybe Polian himself got lucky as a GM during his Colts years. What I am saying is that Irsay's track record of making really shitty decisions is, candidly, ancient history; that he was terrible at a job he was ill-suited for and thrust into by his alcoholic lout of a father thirty years ago seems largely irrelevant.soxfan121 said:
No one would suggest the guy is some genius. But if one of the most important lessons he's learned over the last few decades as an owner is to let personnel guys do personnel matters--to stay out of their way--and, relatedly, not fuck up good fortune when it falls in his lap, that makes Jim Irsay a lot more like the owner of the NEP than it does, say, the Browns.
Agree with the above. Irsay is smart enough to know he is two franchise tags away from Luck walking. And then Irsay is screwed.
Have no sense he wants to do this himself. The big question, as it always is, is whether he hires the right people.
Despite ludicrous attempts to discredit him, Luck makes this a phenomenally attractive job.
Have no sense he wants to do this himself. The big question, as it always is, is whether he hires the right people.
Despite ludicrous attempts to discredit him, Luck makes this a phenomenally attractive job.
Smiling Joe Hesketh said:
Yeah, the guy is a shameless self-promoter and opportunist. It's kind of fun to see him aiming broadsides at Grigson but that doesn't change the fact that he's an unscrupulous hack. He did a TV spot with Giardi and Tom E. Curran before the Pats/Colts game. He's done a lot of radio but it looked like he hasn't spent a lot of time doing TV spots (his body english was awkward). He was pretty hammy. It wouldn't surprise me if he was angling for a TV gig somewhere, as print probably can't contain his ego. Between DFG and the Colts dumpster fire, he probably sees his moment is at hand.
I'm not convinced he did learn that. His silly, over-the-top reaction to the Trent Richardson deal makes me wonder what kind of hand he had in that - at the very least, he was 100% on-board with it. The Colts have drafted a ton of skill players in the past 30 years and have continued to spend high picks on RB/WR/TE under Grigson. Is there pressure from Irsay on that? Or does Irsay think that's the right way to run a team and is inclined to hire executives who build teams that way?Van Everyman said:
What are the "ludicrous attempts to discredit" Luck. He may be plenty good, but those who point out his incredible turnover rate are closer to the truth than all those informed media members who regularly rank him in the top 2 of current quarterbacks.dcmissle said:
Here's a fact: the jury is out as to whether the Colts made the right call in taking Luck instead of keeping Manning plus a boatload of number one draft picks. If Luck walks after two franchise tags then it was clearly a mistake. As it is Manning has been better in years 1,2 and 3 (last year's playoff game notwithstanding) and suddenly looks as if he might even win year 4 as well.
Having lived in Indy for the significant majority of the Irsay/Polian/Manning/Luck era, I would suggest that Irsay is closer to a cornpone Jerry Jones than a Dan Snyder, i.e. Irsay thinks he knows a lot more about football and personnel than he does, and looks to significantly insert himself in the personnel process. Polian pere usually told him to piss off and he was smart enough to mostly stay out of the way until Polian fils started wreaking havoc. Grigson seems to be over his head, but won't admit it (obviously), and Irsay is leaning on him figuratively and literally to make certain moves. Karma train or not, you can see the light at the end of the tunnel, and it is not going to be pretty for the locals.
Doyel is merely a vulture.
Doyel is merely a vulture.
Didn't the colts take 2 interior defensive lineman in this year's draft, both of whom are playing pretty well?Super Nomario said:
Grigson blew the first round pick, but he didn't ignore the glaring need in this year's draftSuper Nomario said:
Bleedred said:
He still picked a 5th WR over those glaring needs in the first round. The argument is if there's institutional pressure on Grigson to spend draft capital on skill positions, continuing what went on with Polian as GM. That a 5th rounder is playing well at DT is immaterial to that point.
Van Everyman said:
(1) That isn't what you said ("Irsay is pretty good"), nor is that what the track record shows. He allowed Polian to elevate his bonehead son, he hired Ryan Grigson, he let Bruce Arians walk away. Candidly, Jim Irsay hasn't made one objectively good decision other than hiring Bill Polian - who, as it was pointed out, named his price and took the job because of Peyton Manning.
(2) No one gives a fuck about your stupid strawman. Except that it's wrong, as Irsay and Haslam have both been under indictment, making them very alike in the "criminally incompetent" category.
Yes, I was and it was wonderful. And it made all of my friends who are Colts fans want to vomit, which made it even better.
But it was fun to see Pagano confirm at the end of the first half that he has no freakin' idea how to coach a football team.
I guess they just wanted to show that they have LOTS of stupid plays up their sleeve
I guess they just wanted to show that they have LOTS of stupid plays up their sleeve
Indeed. I really am hoping they get that rematch they were asking for in the playoffs. Pretty please.
Credit where credit is due, that was a huge win. Yeah, they're getting in to the playoffs one way or another, but they obviously need to play a lot better if they want a shot of doing anything once they get there.
They have one remaining tough game (2 if you count ATL in ATL) against the Steelers, and then a bunch of garbage. They have a legit shot at 10-6, which would be an accomplishment considering how poor they've played until this Sunday.
They might have lost Henry Anderson for the season, which would be a big loss. He's been one of their three best defensive players, along with Davis and Mike Adams.0
They have one remaining tough game (2 if you count ATL in ATL) against the Steelers, and then a bunch of garbage. They have a legit shot at 10-6, which would be an accomplishment considering how poor they've played until this Sunday.
They might have lost Henry Anderson for the season, which would be a big loss. He's been one of their three best defensive players, along with Davis and Mike Adams.0
If they run the table, how long will it be before we see a comparison of the Colts' start this year to the Patriots' 2014 start?
That was fun yesterday. Colts win and cover, hand a much needed loss to Denver, and still produce some typical Colts lol with the bonehead turtle away a possession and kick a returnable punt to end the half. Hopefully that win buys another half season where they think firing Pep Hamilton (who was terrible) was the cure all.
Andre Johnson as a Colt continues to make Chad Ochocinco as a Patriot look like Jerry Rice.
Andre Johnson as a Colt continues to make Chad Ochocinco as a Patriot look like Jerry Rice.
Wait, cover? Colts weren't favored. Not a betting man, do you say covered when an underdog wins?
To be fair, the Pats only beat them by 7, and the Colts also only lost by 3 to the other undefeated team that they played, the Panthers.
Nobody has come closer than losing by 7 to the Pats or 3 to the Panthers.
The Pats only beat them by 7 but were up 14 with 1:15 left in the game. That 7 points is very friendly to a Colts team that had almost everything break right for them.
Is this possibly a case of Pagano's crazy swings having an effect on the team? Turning them into the Rex era Jets, up for the Big/Rivalry games (their Superbowl) and subsequently burned out for the others? Sure starting to seem that way.
Yes you do.
If you'd like, here http://www.oddsshark.com/sports-betting/point-spread-betting
"Based on the point spread of 4.5 points, a wager on the Cowboys would be made if you believe they can win the game by 5 points or more. So if Dallas wins the game 20-14, then the team not only wins by 6 points but also covers the 4.5-point spread as the favorite. However, if the Cowboys win 20-17, then they win by 3 points and have NOT covered the 4.5 points, but the Redskins have because they stayed within the spread. If you are still not sure how this works, take the final score and subtract the favorite value from their total or add the underdog total to their score to see who has more points."
Yes, but in your posted example, they're talking about the favorite covering. At no point in your quote does it talk about what happens if Washington wins. It's implied. What you're saying is like talking about the Pats win yesterday by saying "They won the game, and outscored the Redskins"
Let's not forget about the absolute gift of a pick 6 they had as well. That game wasn't close.
Yeah I should have said not only covered but won outright, but not sure its worth getting hung up on.
The big takeaway for the Colts was that Luck looked healthy. They should be more competitive over the second half of the season and win a weak division if that holds. Lots of luck trying to beat two of Denver, New England, and the Bengals on the road though.
The big takeaway for the Colts was that Luck looked healthy. They should be more competitive over the second half of the season and win a weak division if that holds. Lots of luck trying to beat two of Denver, New England, and the Bengals on the road though.
Using a late third pick, a fifth, and no real free agent capital on a glaring need is pretty close to ignoring it--you can't expect either of the rookies to be even average NFL players in their first year and each of those players only has about a thirty percent chance of ever becoming a solid NFL player.
It's gambling, pure and simple, to count on a player picked after round 2.
Just like it was gambling for BB to make a 2nd year UFA his CB1 this year, to rely on a bunch of untested rookies on the interior OL, etc... this feels like one of those things where we give BB credit for being a genius but skewer Grigson for the same thing because we hate him.
Maybe Grigson just threw shit at the wall with his interior DL this year and got lucky. Or maybe he decided there was enough interior DL talent that fits his scheme in the late rounds and went another direction in the first. He's an incompetent shitbag but we don't need this particular example to know that.
On the contrary, I feel like we should send Luck a fruitbasket or something. He really took one for the team. And that team was the Pats.