And as with value in baseball, replacement level for coaches is below the average. An average coach is worth a lot.MentalDisabldLst said:
2015 coaching carousel
- Thread starter mauf
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FWIW, Mike Smith's problems went beyond clock management - his personnel usage mystified a lot of people (e.g., Jonathan Massaquoi and Ra'shede Hageman continually getting limited snap counts despite being the most promising pass rusher and interior defensive lineman on the team), and his choice of offensive/defensive coordinators was perpetually shaky. Personally, I think Smith made Dimitroff look bad much more often than the reverse was true...if Ryan lands in Atlanta, I think the Falcons rebuild will be faster than many people might think.
Lets put it a different way, I did not realize the spread of playoff appearances. Four times in his first 5 years.
The Giants have made the playoffs once since 2008. Once in 6 years. That one time he won a coin flip Superbowl. I don't think we should measure coaches by Superbowl wins. To often recently the team that won the Superbowl got hot at the right time, but for this specific reason it is very important to make it to the playoffs and he has failed to do so with any consistency recently.
The Giants have made the playoffs once since 2008. Once in 6 years. That one time he won a coin flip Superbowl. I don't think we should measure coaches by Superbowl wins. To often recently the team that won the Superbowl got hot at the right time, but for this specific reason it is very important to make it to the playoffs and he has failed to do so with any consistency recently.
ConigliarosPotential said:
Easley was the most promising defensive lineman on NE. He played well in a limited role for NE. I think the same applies to both Hageman and Massaquoi in that they were rookies who received limited snaps and played well enough as rookies with the Falcons. Let's not pretend they both would have had a major, defensive changing impact with more snaps.
Most promising as a fan is meaningless.
Atlanta has a top 10-12ish QB, but they might have the worst talent in the entire league outside of QB. Other than Julio Jones, who on the Falcons would start for the Patriots? Maybe Trufant over Browner/Arrington? They're 10-22 over the last two years for a reason.ShaneTrot said:
That organization seems pretty dysfunctional. It might be a nice short-term destination, but in the long haul things don't look real rosy.Remagellan said:
Agree on SF. There is a lot of age on that roster too and a QB that doesn't seem willing to put in the work to make himself great. I'd stay far away from that job.Super Nomario said:
I'm not sure I agree on those specific points. A few key players (Justin Smith, Boldin, Willis, Gore) are old, but most of the roster is pretty young, and everything I've read suggests Kaepernick is a hard worker.jsinger121 said:
Yeah but the division is awful, a good draft and a few good free agent signings and this team could be in the playoffs next year. New Orleans is in salary cap hell, TB has good players but is inexplicably bad, Carolina is just getting out of salary cap problems. They don't need to be the 85 Bears.Super Nomario said:
On Mike Smith, I always wondered whether it would make sense for a HC who was great at scheming and terrible at clock management (cough Andy Reid cough) to have some sort of time management coordinator on the sidelines to assist him.
The Bears can hire a new coach, GM and get a new QB. Still is not going to solve how insanely bad that O-Line is.
On a first past-look, I have trouble following this.ConigliarosPotential said:
In 2009, Rex Ryan inherited a 9-7 Jets team with good defensive players that were drafted by Eric Mangini. One of his first moves was to move up in the draft (considered by some to be a bad idea) to select mark sanchez with the 5th pick (considered by nearly everyone to be a moronic move at the time). Over the past five years, he managed to somehow lose all the defensive talent and never improved the offense; they have not had a winning season since 2010.
In 2008, Mike Smith inherited a 4-12 falcons team that had not had a winning season since 2004; the falcons had a winning record from 2008-2012, but have had a lot of injury issues along the line over the past three years.
To me, Mike Smith appears to be a much better head coach than Rex Ryan, as of right now.
If there was a spot to criticize this team it is the clearly the entire defense. They have nobody anywhere on the roster. Maybe the worst in the NFL. The good players they did have are all very old, It will take several years to turn it into something average.SoxFanInPdx said:
OL was good as recently as last year.
If Idzik is out, the Jets aren't a terrible situation -- low expectations, a long-suffering fan base, and an owner who has, if anything, been too patient with his people. It's not a potential quick fix like Chicago or Atlanta, but it will be far from the least coveted opening this winter.TomRicardo said:
Taking a job for a lame-duck GM is a bad move, however , so I agree that it's a terrible situation if Idzik isn't sacked along with Rexy -- and Woody Johnson is stupid enough to do that.
So the "Hottest" coaching candidate according to the NFL network is the Broncos OC. Why would anyone ever be interested in Mannings OC?
Jets tried this with Herm the worm when he was consistently blowing games. It didn't really worksingaporesoxfan said:
Gus Bradley should get another year. If Jacksonville lets him go, it would be a mistake. That team's problem is talent not coaching.
maufman said:
Woody and NY Press were talking about the playoffs today.
Playoffs... let that sink in
I wonder whether the Bears will take a long look at Rex. Obviously, without a GM they're in a state of limbo. But the hire makes sense in at least some superficial ways - the Buddy Ryan legacy, the defensive identity that the Bears like to consider themselves to have, getting a coach with a reputation for shutting down big time passing attacks for a division with Rodgers, Stafford, and (if he keeps developing) Bridgewater, etc.
I'm a Rex critic but the presumptive field of other HC candidates doesn't exactly blow me away right now.
I'm a Rex critic but the presumptive field of other HC candidates doesn't exactly blow me away right now.
From an ESPN story about the Emery/Trestman firings:
I'll have to check this out. That sounds crazy to me.
Edit: It's true. Trestman was the first coach to have any head coaching experience at any level of football (in his case, the CFL).
I'll have to check this out. That sounds crazy to me.
Edit: It's true. Trestman was the first coach to have any head coaching experience at any level of football (in his case, the CFL).
amarshal2 said:
Turn it over?
The Bears might not have much talent on defense but beggars can't be choosers. If Chicago is his only offer to become a HC, Rex will at the very least strongly consider taking the job.
I have felt for a long time that Cowher would only come out of retirement if his alma mater (NC State) approached him. He has presumably had tons of offers over the years, and if none of those we're enticing enough, I don't think any of this year's vacancies will cause him to take the plunge.FL4WL3SS said:
Morgan's Magic Snowplow said:
Unless they plan on ditching Cutler he'd be a terrible fit--you need a QB whisperer, and Rex has shown pretty limited ability to manage that position.
Silverdude2167 said:
Your bitterness is so fucking tasty! "Coin flip Superbowl" is one of the stupidest phrases ever posted on this board. What a loser, his championship wasn't good enough.
amarshal2 said:
Maybe so. But Rex still strongly considers, and possibly takes, that job if he's offered it. Honestly, to believe otherwise is just completely naive about how the business works.
You can't believe that Coughlin has done anything after 2011. Shit, his entire tenure he's been close to getting fired several times. Yes he's got 2 rings, but his teams year in and year out are never among the NFCs best let alone the NFL.cromulence said:
Also, coin flip SB is true. They won in 2 games that easily could have gone either way.
DanoooME said:
I think beyond not slapping the franchise tag on Cutler and re-signing him; Emery has just been horrible at the draft.
Shea McClellin at 19 in the 2012 draft, 2 spots ahead of Chandler Jones. I am struggling to find a better word than "abomination" to describe that pick.
Morgan's Magic Snowplow said:
I think that's right. The talent isn't great but you have to take any NFL head coaching job offer not from Al Davis seriously. And Chicago is an excellent destination apart from talent--good stable and traditionally pretty patient ownership that doesn't interfere, a great fanbase, a division with only one consistently excellent opponent in GB, and a non-atrocious cap situation.
Random thought, but Rex would seem to me to be a prime candidate in Atlanta, and his brother a prime candidate to get canned for his horrible performance with the Saints. Any chance we could have a heartwarming Ryan brother combo down in the dirty south?
Shelterdog said:
Exactly. Its easy to sit in our office chairs and say that X coach shouldn't take Y situation but these guys often don't have a lot of choice and the things you mention about Chicago are substantial factors on the positive side of the ledger.
If you gave a poll to owners and asked if they would trade their last 10 seasons for results similar to the Giants, how many teams wouldn't do that trade? Five playoff appearances, 3 division titles and 2 Bowl wins?
Pittsburgh, New England, and....?
Morgan's Magic Snowplow said:
The other Bears news is that CEO and President Ted Phillips will be reassigned to business operations only. That leaves the football side a complete blank slate. There have been rumblings in the Trib that Bill Polian has been consulting the McCaskeys. Complete and total speculation: Bill Polian becomes President of Football Operations and brings along Chris as VP and GM.
I highly doubt the Bears will hire a coach before filling the front office slots. Historically, this is a deliberate, conservative organization that doesn't rush to hire or fire people. It would shock me if they hired a coach and then a GM or if they hired a coach and empowered him with much personnel authority. Also noteworthy here is that the Trib estimates the Bears owe roughly $14m in salary to Emery, Trestman, and the assistant coaches; they also just paid Lovie for a year on the couch. My guess is that the next hire is a first time HC still available after the front office positions are filled. More speculation: Dan Quinn.
Emery was big on drafting guys with great measurable, players that had strong combines and climbed boards late, so there's lots of physical talent on the roster. The real problem has been developing that talent. Kyle Long and Alshon Jeffery have turned out great. Kyle Fuller and Will Sutton look to have the tools to be a long-term starters. The rest of the young guys have just not developed well. The new regime is going to have evaluate them quickly and decide who can be coached up and who has to be cut.
With the expected departures of Peanut Tillman and Lance Briggs, the defense will need to be restocked immediately. The Bears project to have about $30m in cap space this off season, with another $16m open if they cut Jay Ratliff, Ryan Mundy, Brandon Marshall, and Matt Forte. (Forte is only $1m in dead money to save $7.8m. I think he's gone.)
And Cutler isn't going anywhere. His cap number is $16.5m next season, which seems way too large for any team to gamble on in a trade; if cut, Cutler would be $19.5m in dead money. But that changes to $17m in salary and $3m in dead money after 2015.
Edit: Bears salary cap space is more like $30m against a projected $140m cap in 2015. That's projected to be 8th most in the league,
I am not sure how the brothers would get along on a coaching staff. Would Rob like taking orders from Rex?Ed Hillel said:
Why would Rob want to work for Rex? Any amount of success will be attributed to Rex, especially considering they're both defensive coaches at heart. I would assume Rob wants a head coaching gig at some point, he'd be in a lose-lose situations under Rex.Ed Hillel said:
Green Bay, Baltimore, Indy and Seattle maybe.GregHarris said:
Over ten years from a distance it looks good, but the last five are not very good. (6-10, 7-9, 9-7, 9-7 (Superbowl), 10-6 (no playoffs)). That is trending in the wrong direction, is he still a good coach, is it the GM or Eli? All three?
I see your point and coin flip Superbowl is not meant as an insult. I am not taking away the Superbowl win, but how much weight should be given to a coach for something that easily could have been different.
I think Rob Ryan's ship has sailed from ever becoming a head coach. He has the Ryan name attached to him along with being fired in Dallas and presiding over a horrendous defense in New Orleans.FL4WL3SS said: