When is the realistic Add/Drop deadline for this team?

[Max Power]

I'm not sure this is the thread for it, but would Bryce Harper be available? The Nats have an outfield logjam and holes in the lineup at catcher and second base. They may be interested in Pierzynski, Betts, and Webster/Ranudo. Whether that would get it done depends entirely on what the Nats think of Betts and his chances to be a star.

 

[RedOctober3829]

 
The front office dicked around with Xander with the Drew fiasco. He'd be fine if they just let him play shortstop without the 10 million of dead weight in front of him.

Those sliders would look a whole lot different if he was playing short, right?  Yeah, I didn't think so.

 

[RedOctober3829]

I'm not sure this is the thread for it, but would Bryce Harper be available? The Nats have an outfield logjam and holes in the lineup at catcher and second base. They may be interested in Pierzynski, Betts, and Webster/Ranudo. Whether that would get it done depends entirely on what the Nats think of Betts and his chances to be a star.

Bryce Harper available?  Are you kidding me?  Please.

 

[Smiling Joe Hesketh]

 
 
Please.  Shit happens, you have to deal with it.  Ryan Zimmerman has been moved from 3B to LF this year.  A-Rod was the best player in the game and he moved.
 
To be clear, I don't think X is using this as an excuse.  I just don't want to see others do it for him.

 
Zimmerman was 29 years old and an established major leaguer when he was asked to move. Similarly with ARod. Asking a 21 year old rookie who wears number 2 because he idolizes Jeter and dreams of playing shortstop is OF COURSE going to hurt the kid's feelings. Telling him to "get over it" is ignoring the issue and surely affects his major league development. These guys aren't robots. This should have been considered before the Drew signing, and maybe it was. But IMO if they truly see X and their long term SS then moving him to make room for a horribly unproductive Drew was a huge mistake in his development. This was my opinion the day Drew was signed and certainly nothing that's happened since then has changed my mind in any way. In every way the signing has been a total disaster, for both players involved.

 

[moondog80]

I'm not sure this is the thread for it, but would Bryce Harper be available? The Nats have an outfield logjam and holes in the lineup at catcher and second base. They may be interested in Pierzynski, Betts, and Webster/Ranudo. Whether that would get it done depends entirely on what the Nats think of Betts and his chances to be a star.

 
They do have a jam but most teams would react to that by reading their lest valuable pieces, not their most valuable.  So I could see Werth/Zimmerman being available, but in both cases you're taking on a lot of money for decline years.

 

[smastroyin]

Doomed the team is a little much.  They relied to much on Victorino, other than that I'm not sure I see a huge problem.  You are limited, even with infinite spending, to a certain amount of major league players.  It's easy to say that the Red Sox should have just accepted they got the only useful season of Daniel Nava's career and should have punted on him, but as a useful guy with options...well guess what, that has value.  Gomes was on a two year deal and is fine when used correctly.  I'll take the World Series ring in exchange for his inflated sense of self-importance, although the manager should be better at using him both strategically and tactically.  Should they have presumed that Victorino would not be able to play?  I guess, but then you have to sign Ellsbury because Choo probably can't play RF in Fenway.  As for JBJ, sometimes high profile prospects fail.  If you don't have a tolerance for that, you shouldn't be in the business of developing them (e.g. they should just trade their top guys for established stars all the time...of course if you don't have the appetite to pay expensive veterans either...).  Sizemore was the 5th OF in this plan, 5th OF is going to be a tough spot to fill with a capable major leaguer.  They took a chance rather than grabbing a defensive specialist like Young or Davis (who of course are people who have the right to make their own choices and choosing to be 5th OF in Boston may not have been high on their list).  But, I fail to see how Ben C. deserves any more blame for this year than he does credit for last.
 
If I were dividing up the blame pie, I put it 80% on the players themselves - underperformance almost across the board, and split the remaining 20% between Farrell and the FO.

 

[moondog80]

 
Zimmerman was 29 years old and an established major leaguer when he was asked to move. Similarly with ARod. Asking a 21 year old rookie who wears number 2 because he idolizes Jeter and dreams of playing shortstop is OF COURSE going to hurt the kid's feelings. Telling him to "get over it" is ignoring the issue and surely affects his major league development. These guys aren't robots.

 
 
Fine.  Manny Machado then.  Wasn't in the middle of the season, but does that really make a difference?  Do you really think young kids being asked to move positions is rare?
 
I think the underlying point may be that they don't view him as a SS, and Drew merely sped up the inevitable.  Because if they really do have hope for him as a SS, then yes, signing Drew was incredibly dumb.

 

[Smiling Joe Hesketh]

 
 
Fine.  Manny Machado then.  Wasn't in the middle of the season, but does that really make a difference?  Do you really think young kids being asked to move positions is rare?
 
I think the underlying point may be that they don't view him as a SS, and Drew merely sped up the inevitable.  Because if they really do have hope for him as a SS, then yes, signing Drew was incredibly dumb.

 
If they now don't view him as an SS after less than 1/2 season's work at the position then they're incredibly stupid and should just trade him now to a club that might have a clue in handling him properly.
 
I have no patience for this type of crap. He's their most promising prospect by far and they're just dicking around with his development. Now that the season's ruined, put him at SS, bench or jettison Drew, and tell one and all "X is our shortstop of the future" as often as necessary to get it through Nick Cafardo's cottage cheese brain that this guy is the goddamn shortstop on a permanent basis.

 

[Stitch01]

 
The reasons for not signing Drew didn't include a potential impact on Bogaerts' offense.  But they did include the fact that it seemed unlikely that Drew would be productive and it took reps away from Bogaerts defensively, which is obviously where he needs the most improvement.  It was a dumb move, and this isn't hind sight as many, many people said so at the time.

Im still happy they signed Drew although he doesn't have a use on this team as they fall out of the race. 

 

[bankshot1]

If they now don't view him as an SS after less than 1/2 season's work at the position then they're incredibly stupid and should just trade him now to a club that might have a clue in handling him.

 
X did not look like a competent MLB SS. It seemed he lacked the mobility or fluidity the position requires. Might he grow into the job as he matures? Maybe, But he struck me (particularly as he fills out) as more suited to either 3rd base, or potentially 1st. IMO he needs to play somewhere (SS, 3rd, 1st) consistently so he has some stability, to allow confidence to grow, and to to eventually allow him to learn to hit MLB pitching.

 

[moondog80]

 
If they now don't view him as an SS after less than 1/2 season's work at the position then they're incredibly stupid and should just trade him now to a club that might have a clue in handling him properly.
 
I have no patience for this type of crap. He's their most promising prospect by far and they're just dicking around with his development. Now that the season's ruined, put him at SS, bench or jettison Drew, and tell one and all "X is our shortstop of the future" as often as necessary to get it through Nick Cafardo's cottage cheese brain that this guy is the goddamn shortstop on a permanent basis.

 
The 345 games he spent at SS in the minors, they count too for evaluation purposes.  If they've decided he's not a SS, it's not a whim.  It's also not a shocking development.  All we heard when he was in the minors was that he would outgrow SS and move to 3B.  

 

[Smiling Joe Hesketh]

 
The 345 games he spent at SS in the minors, they count too for evaluation purposes.  If they've decided he's not a SS, it's not a whim.  It's also not a shocking development.  All we heard when he was in the minors was that he would outgrow SS and move to 3B.  

 
They don't count for major league evaluation purposes. My God. He's 21 years old and already being jerked around like they think he's the Aruban Jeff Frye. Ridiculous.

 

[Stitch01]

He looks to me to be much better suited at 3B too, but what the hell do I know.  Id rather he stay at SS LT term, but teams move young players from SS to other positions all the time and there's always been a contingent that thought X would have to move to 3B as he grows.  If they don't think he's a long-term SS its probably based in part on what they are seeing in practice and not in games.  Might be the wrong call by the organization, but I think its overstated to call it really fucking stupid.

 

[Smiling Joe Hesketh]

 
X did not look like a competent MLB SS. It seemed he lacked the mobility or fluidity the position requires. Might he grow into the job as he matures? Maybe, But he struck me (particularly as he fills out) as more suited to either 3rd base, or potentially 1st. IMO he needs to play somewhere (SS, 3rd, 1st) consistently so he has some stability, to allow confidence to grow, and to to eventually allow him to learn to hit MLB pitching.

 
As talked to death in the previous threads, neither did Stephen Drew when he first came up.

 

[Smiling Joe Hesketh]

He looks to me to be much better suited at 3B too, but what the hell do I know.  Id rather he stay at SS LT term, but teams move young players from SS to other positions all the time and there's always been a contingent that thought X would have to move to 3B as he grows.  If they don't think he's a long-term SS its probably based in part on what they are seeing in practice and not in games.  Might be the wrong call by the organization, but I think its overstated to call it really fucking stupid.

 
If it's not really fucking stupid, it's incredibly, shortsightedly premature. Take your pick.
 
The 2014 season is OVER. Have no doubt about that. Now is the time for prospect development and evaluation. Get him back to SS as soon as possible for those purposes.

 

[moondog80]

 
They don't count for major league evaluation purposes. My God. He's 21 years old and already being jerked around like they think he's the Aruban Jeff Frye. Ridiculous.

 
 
So if they see things in the minors that indicate he might not be well suited to SS, they should forget about that history when the same problems crop up in the majors?

 

[Stitch01]

Oh, I agree development is the priority the rest of the way and Im fine with dumping Drew and moving X back to SS if the team thinks his long-term home is there.  Its just very possible they've decided he's a 3B and, if that's the case, the development reps should be at 3B.

 

[bankshot1]

 
As talked to death in the previous threads, neither did Stephen Drew when he first came up.

I didn't see Drew play SS as a rookie, but presumably he exhibited some of the mobility and fluidity that I believe the position requires and that I believe X is lacking. Again, if you think he's a long-term SS, play him there, but if you think his real position is 3rd, play him there.
 
I want X to succeed, and I don't care at what position it is, but I have my doubts its SS.

 

[Smiling Joe Hesketh]

 
 
So if they see things in the minors that indicate he might not be well suited to SS, they should forget about that history when the same problems crop up in the majors?

 
They haven't given him any near a proper length of time at the major league level, IMO, to make such a conclusion.

 

[Snodgrass'Muff]

 
They don't count for major league evaluation purposes. My God. He's 21 years old and already being jerked around like they think he's the Aruban Jeff Frye. Ridiculous.

 
Ridiculous is an appropriate word to follow your post.  His minor league career is essentially one long evaluation period to inform the club about what kind of major leaguer he is going to be.  He's not being bounced around the infield like Jeff Frye.  He's been moved over to third, a position he played last year during the stretch run of the World Series run, while the team tried to address a literal hole at third base because of injuries and Herrera being awful with a bat.
 
I'd be fine with trading Drew as well as Gomes, Peavy, Uehara, Breslow, Mujia, Capuano and Pierzynski if they can get any decent offers for them.  Build the 2015 roster around Ortiz, Pedroia, Buchholz, RDLR, Workman, Tazawa, Bogaerts, Bradley, Betts, Holt, and do what you have to do bring Lester back.  You can field a competitive team with that group.

 

[glennhoffmania]

There are various things at play when it comes to whether Bogaerts is a legit SS.  First, he doesn't have to be a GG defender if his bat is as good as we think.  Christ, just look at Jeter over the last two decades.  He's never been even an average SS but he was valuable because his bat was well above average for the position and it allowed them to put better bats at the other positions he could've played.
 
Second, like SJH said the guy is only 21 fucking years old.  Most players aren't even sniffing the majors yet.  Granted, he'll probably never be Ozzie Smith but it seems a tad premature to conclude that he can't be an adequate defensive SS.
 
Finally, are they better for the next five or six years with Bogaerts and Middlebrooks/Cecchini or Marrero/Bogaerts (or some other combination)?  The decision on where to play Bogaerts isn't made in a vacuum. 
 
So since it seemed to most people that this team wasn't going to win a WS this year, and it seemed unlikely that Drew would make a significant difference, they had the perfect opportunity to let Bogaerts finish the year at SS and see how, or if, he progresses.  Then they could've reevaluated over the offseason.  Instead they won't have much more info about Bogaerts' defense than they had last offseason.

 

[smastroyin]

I think they think he is a 3B, and I think they very much continue to overvalue their own defensive metrics at the expense of offense.  I say this, of course, as someone on the outside looking in. 

 

[Ed Hillel]

 
The reasons for not signing Drew didn't include a potential impact on Bogaerts' offense.  But they did include the fact that it seemed unlikely that Drew would be productive and it took reps away from Bogaerts defensively, which is obviously where he needs the most improvement.  It was a dumb move, and this isn't hind sight as many, many people said so at the time.

 
And many people would still argue that the Sox are better off down the line with Xander at a corner infield position than shortstop. In which case, the Drew signing helped long-term.
 

First, he doesn't have to be a GG defender if his bat is as good as we think.

 
You're right, it's all about Xander's bat, which is why all the hand-wringing over him having to play SS is a bit odd. It's like people remember how much they loved Nomar and want to re-live the feeling with Xander, but can't do it if he's playing another position. He's actually played pretty well at third. I would think that's a good thing.
 
Anyway, back to the subject at hand, I'm beginning to change my stance on Lester and think trading him may now be the best option. His value is at its highest, and the FO has already bungled negotiations to the point where I can't see the Sox getting him at anything less than, say 6/140, which won't happen anyway. If Lester went to the highest bidder, it may be something in the 7/170 range now. I generally understand FO perspective on transactions, but they've got me lost on this Lester saga. They probably could have had him for 5/105 or so in the offseason, something in that range, which just seems like a complete no-brainer. Now that it's too late (I really can't envision a scenario where he comes back now), they might as well get a few A-level prospects as opposed to the single pick from the QO. The rest of the team has such little value that it doesn't matter. Take what you can for Peavy, AJP, Gomes, etc., if there's actually anything out there. Shop Koji and see what's out there, as well.

 

[moondog80]

 
They haven't given him any near a proper length of time at the major league level, IMO, to make such a conclusion.

 
Playing short is playing short, why do minor league reps not count in evaluation?  Pedroia was a SS in college and they moved him to 2B right away.  Was that wrong?   You can make a position switch based on college scouting but not minors?

 

[Smiling Joe Hesketh]

 
Playing short is playing short, why do minor league reps not count in evaluation?  Pedroia was a SS in college and they moved him to 2B right away.  Was that wrong?   You can make a position switch based on college scouting but not minors?

 
Pedroia split his time in the minors 50/50 between SS and 2B. X played all 345 of his minor league games at shortstop. They saw him as a shortstop, they never moved from from that position in the minors, they developed him as shortstop in the minors. If they had doubted about him playing that position in the majors it stands to reason that they would have moved him around more in the minors. They never did.
 
It would follow, then, that they allow him to play more than 62 games of shortstop in the majors before suddenly changing their minds.

 

[Dahabenzapple2]

 
If it's not really fucking stupid, it's incredibly, shortsightedly premature. Take your pick.
 
The 2014 season is OVER. Have no doubt about that. Now is the time for prospect development and evaluation. Get him back to SS as soon as possible for those purposes.

THIS
 
Well I expected to see a decent team when I visit Fenway on 7/5 - my first game @ Fenway since 2011 and only my second since I moved away from the Boston area in 1982 - but the decent team will be the Orioles.
 
Please sell.....

 

[moondog80]

 
Pedroia split his time in the minors 50/50 between SS and 2B. X played all 345 of his minor league games at shortstop. They saw him as a shortstop, they never moved from from that position in the minors, they developed him as shortstop in the minors. If they had doubted about him playing that position in the majors it stands to reason that they would have moved him around more in the minors. They never did.
 
It would follow, then, that they allow him to play more than 62 games of shortstop in the majors before suddenly changing their minds.

 
I have no idea what they are actually thinking, but I'll paint a plausible scenario:
 
Obviously, it's better for everybody if he can succeed at SS.  So they give him every chance they can to develop there.  As time goes on and the issues don't go away and their doubts grow, but they continue to play him there because even if it doesn't work out, they just move him to 3B.  Last year he comes up and plays mostly 3B out of necessity.  This year the move him to SS, again out of necessity -- they can't reach a deal with Drew (they tried, even offered him arb, so X at SS for 2014 was not pre-ordained) and they have WMB, so playing X at SS is the best thing for the team.  Then, WMB sucks/gets hurt, and Drew becomes available.  They decide that they've seen enough to know that he's a long-term 3B, and this is the perfect opportunity to make it happen, becasue there's a need at 3B and a solution (so we thought) at SS.
 
Again, if they do still have hopes for him at SS, this was a silly move and they should move him back.  But I'll bet that ship has sailed.
 
Or, we can go with your theory that they just hate him and want him to die.

 

[Rovin Romine]

 
If it's not really fucking stupid, it's incredibly, shortsightedly premature. Take your pick.
 
The 2014 season is OVER. Have no doubt about that. Now is the time for prospect development and evaluation. Get him back to SS as soon as possible for those purposes.

 
I have to concur.  It'd be interesting to see if the team rebounds once "the pressure is off."  So I can't quite rule out a mid-season run of some kind.  Pending FA acquisitions, I'd thing the Sox are best off getting their rookies' feet wet.  Catcher, 3B/SS, OF seem to be the most obvious slots to improve on - either through smart development this year or FA acquisitions.   
 
No future in Boston: Drew, Hackzynski, Peavy
 
Maybe a future in Boston, maybe tradeable: Lester, Uehara, Ross, Carp, Mujica, Gomes? 
 
Guys who need to play at the ML level when healthy: WMB, RDLR,  JBJ, Xander (3b/SS), Nava, Mookie (OF - or do we send him down and stop the clock?).
 
Guys who need to rest or be driven slowly with 2015 in mind:  Pedroia, Victorinio, Ortiz, Napoli?, Doubront?, Buccholz?,  RDLR?, Lester (post signing?)
 
Callups for exposure?: Vazquez, Brentz, Hassan?, Shaw?, Barnes, Britton, Webster, Wilson, Wright.
 
Especially volatile/young players whose success or failure will set the course of the 2015 Sox (assuming no acquisitions) and who therefore should be planned for in terms of coaching, fitness, development: Buchholz, X, JBJ, WMB, Vasquez, (RDLR/Workman/Doubront/Webster/etc.)
 
***
I'd trade Peirzynski, Drew and Peavy for anything PLUS an innings eating catcher with the right work ethic and batting approach, I'd then promote Vasquez to get his feet wet (and then send him back down to AAA).  
 
I'd then rotate some of my AAA players up to get them cups of coffee/exposure, including any ML bats (Brentz?, Shaw?).  
 
I'd coddle the older players (Victorino, esp) and get them lots of rest.  I'd get everyone on board with the idea that they play Game #1 of 2015 like it's do or die and go from there; no trips to DC, no "I'll work my way into playing shape" as the season goes, etc.  

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

I'm a huge Cherington fan, but his outfield roster construction doomed the team. (Well, that and some other problems.)
 
Victorino's 3-year deal was the rare gamble that we both won and lost. Between him, Sizemore, the platoon in LF (which saps the defensive capabilities of the bench) and Bradley's poor debut, the players we have simply don't add up to a credible outfield.
 
Right now the team is playing Bradley between two infielders. That's an indictment of roster construction. 

They won a World Series in part because of Victorino. He could never play another game in Boston and be worth every penny of that contract. I think if anything it shows the team has a ton of infield depth in the farm/40 man roster but needs a legit bat in the outfield. Giancarlo Stanton come on down!

 

[Smiling Joe Hesketh]

 

Or, we can go with your theory that they just hate him and want him to die.

 
Strawman alert! I don't think that's the case; no one does. I would guess that they want him to succeed. I happen to think they're being incredibly stupid and obtuse in the way they've gone about handling him this year, and now that the season's ruined I think they should stick him back at shortstop for the rest of the season and never waver from that decision.

 

[MakMan44]

 
I have no idea what they are actually thinking, but I'll paint a plausible scenario:
 
Obviously, it's better for everybody if he can succeed at SS.  So they give him every chance they can to develop there.  As time goes on and the issues don't go away and their doubts grow, but they continue to play him there because even if it doesn't work out, they just move him to 3B.  Last year he comes up and plays mostly 3B out of necessity.  This year the move him to SS, again out of necessity -- they can't reach a deal with Drew (they tried, even offered him arb, so X at SS for 2014 was not pre-ordained) and they have WMB, so playing X at SS is the best thing for the team.  Then, WMB sucks/gets hurt, and Drew becomes available.  They decide that they've seen enough to know that he's a long-term 3B, and this is the perfect opportunity to make it happen, becasue there's a need at 3B and a solution (so we thought) at SS.
 
Again, if they do still have hopes for him at SS, this was a silly move and they should move him back.  But I'll bet that ship has sailed.
 
Or, we can go with your theory that they just hate him and want him to die.

I see your general point but I disagree with it. I also don't think your wrong about the MiL experience being a evaluation period but I tend to agree with SJH that they haven't given Xander enough time at SS in the MLB. Maybe he plays a GG 3rd base long term, but I don't think he's shown yet that he can't play a league average SS. Wasn't he playing SS much better right before Drew got here?

 

[Ed Hillel]

 
Strawman alert! I don't think that's the case; no one does. I would guess that they want him to succeed. I happen to think they're being incredibly stupid and obtuse in the way they've gone about handling him this year, and now that the season's ruined I think they should stick him back at shortstop for the rest of the season and never waver from that decision.

 
Again, he's played a solid third base and he's here for his offense anyway. What is the obsession with him at short?

 

[Savin Hillbilly]

I strongly suspect that their handling of Bogaerts has been influenced to some degree by the fact that Cecchini has stagnated this year while Marrero has taken a huge leap forward. At the beginning of the year, there was strong hope that Middlebrooks would get it back together, and Cecchini was breathing down his neck as the Next Big Thing. Meanwhile Marrero looked like Joe Church Lite. Therefore it made sense to at least give Bogaerts a solid opportunity to prove he could play SS in the bigs, even if some in the organization had serious doubts about it. As the season has progressed, three things happend:
 
1) Bogaerts looked iffy at SS;
2) WMB got hurt, requiring them to pick up a left-side infielder from outside (maybe if they'd realized how good Holt would be, this would have proven unnecessary, but it was a pardonable failure of the crystal ball);
3) Marrero surged and Cecchini plateaued.
 
Now, suddenly there is once again genuine doubt about who the best prospect reinforcements on the left side will end up being. Is the infield of the future Cecchini-or-WMB/Bogaerts/Pedroia/?, or is it Bogaerts/Marrero/Pedroia/?. This uncertainty may make the Sox slow to make any promises to Xander about where he'll be next year.

 

[Smiling Joe Hesketh]

 
Again, he's played a solid third base and he's here for his offense anyway. What is the obsession with him at short?

 
Because that's a key position for this team, that's the position he was brought up as in the system, and coincidence or not his hitting has gone to hell in the time since he's been moved from the position, a position switch that he admitted bothered him. Scoff or ridicule him for that all you want, but he's 21 years old and not a cyborg so such a reaction must be considered as contributing, if maybe not the sole cause, of his offensive struggles.
 
Since:
 
A) the 2014 season is toast, and
B) Stephen Drew has no future here, and
C) Marrero is not ready for the majors, and
D) Bogaerts was drafted and developed as a shortstop, and
E) he's only been given 62 games at short to work his way into the position
 
to me it stands to reason that the move that would make the most sense for a team in this current position would be to move him back to short. Like, immediately.

 

[moondog80]

 
Because that's a key position for this team, that's the position he was brought up as in the system, and coincidence or not his hitting has gone to hell in the time since he's been moved from the position, a position switch that he admitted bothered him. Scoff or ridicule him for that all you want, but he's 21 years old and not a cyborg so such a reaction must be considered as contributing, if maybe not the sole cause, of his offensive struggles.
 
Since:
 
A) the 2014 season is toast, and
B) Stephen Drew has no future here, and
C) Marrero is not ready for the majors, and
D) Bogaerts was drafted and developed as a shortstop, and
E) he's only been given 62 games at short to work his way into the position
 
to me it stands to reason that the move that would make the most sense for a team in this current position would be to move him back to short. Like, immediately.

 
 
Point of order.  He's been given 400+ games to work his way into the position.  SS in the minors plays between 2B and 3B, just like majors.  They've (presumably) used all of that history to decide he's not going to be a SS.
 
I also think it's odd that you don't think there's enough evidence to move Xander form SS, yet you think Drew is a waste of a roster spot and a sunk cost after 19 games with no spring training and a 7 game minor league warmup period.

 

[Doctor G]

Its time now to move out the underperforming veteran players. AJP  Gomes  and Peavy  should be moved to contenders, where their experience has some value. That experience on a team breaking in rookies  acts only as an inhibiting factor. I could see AJP in Baltimore,  Gomes in Pittsburgh. Peavy looks to be a guy whose run support luck could be motivation for a team like Oakland to go after  him.

 

[Ed Hillel]

Scoff or ridicule him for that all you want, but he's 21 years old and not a cyborg so such a reaction must be considered as contributing, if maybe not the sole cause, of his offensive struggles.

 
"Must" does not follow, even if it is a possibility. He went on a tear immediately after Drew came over for a week or so, and then went into a dreadful slump. You'll have to paint a creative narrative to explain the immediate tear. He also showed that he was capable of a slump that impacted him mentally (according to Farrell) before the Drew signing even occurred. He's also played well in the field, so, again, you'll need a creative narrative to explain how the position change has impacted his hitting and not his fielding. I think a more likely scenario is that Xander is failing at hitting for the first time in a very long time, if not ever, and he's not handling it well. As I mentioned, we saw it on a smaller level before Drew even got here.
 
As for him being 21 and not being a cyborg, I agree. However, if you are correct, and the position change is negatively affecting him, that is a change that he needs to make and improve on, not something to blame the Red Sox for. Positional flexibility for Xander is ideal for the franchise in the future. He's played well at third, and opening up more options is obviously better for the team. If Xander continues to have these problems down the road, and doesn't learn to adapt, it's on him. The team's responsibility is to put the best team on the field, not to pander to young prospects, even those who employ Scott Boras.

 

[glennhoffmania]

 
 
Point of order.  He's been given 400+ games to work his way into the position.  SS in the minors plays between 2B and 3B, just like majors.  They've (presumably) used all of that history to decide he's not going to be a SS.
 
I also think it's odd that you don't think there's enough evidence to move Xander form SS, yet you think Drew is a waste of a roster spot and a sunk cost after 19 games with no spring training and a 7 game minor league warmup period.

 
1. There's been nothing to suggest that they've made any such decision.  All we know is that they decided he'll play 3B for the rest of 2014.  If WMB comes back and starts crushing the ball with his new glasses on I'd bet that we'll see Bogaerts at SS next spring.
 
2. The Drew determination has nothing to do with his 19 games played so far.  It was about the fact that this team is going no where so there was no point in signing a veteran SS who's only looking to boost his own value for FA next year.  Unless you think that Drew's presence really gives them a shot at making the playoffs what other benefit is there to having him on the roster right now, regardless of how well he hits?

 

[moondog80]

 
1. There's been nothing to suggest that they've made any such decision.  All we know is that they decided he'll play 3B for the rest of 2014.  If WMB comes back and starts crushing the ball with his new glasses on I'd bet that we'll see Bogaerts at SS next spring.
 
2. The Drew determination has nothing to do with his 19 games played so far.  It was about the fact that this team is going no where so there was no point in signing a veteran SS who's only looking to boost his own value for FA next year.  Unless you think that Drew's presence really gives them a shot at making the playoffs what other benefit is there to having him on the roster right now, regardless of how well he hits?

 
1.  You're right, I don't know for sure that they've made that determination.  I suspect they may have, and that's why they tried to re-sign Drew in the offseason.  My larger point is that if they have made such a decision, it's based on more than just the 60+ games he's played at SS in the majors.
 
2.  I don't think the Sox are going to the playoffs.  But it's possible.  Larger deficits have been overcome in a shorter period of time.  If Drew/Xander/Victorino/Pedroia produce in line with expectations in the second half...who knows?  Don't get me wrong, I'd trade Drew, Peavy, AJ, etc in a second if I thought they could get anything decent in return.  But they probably can't, and whatever meager return they could get now will still be there at the end of July, so why not play it out another month?
 
I'll also point out that the day they signed Drew, they were 3.5 games out of the WC, coming off a 6 game winning streak, and there were 4 months left in the season.  So regardless of how it works out, there absolutely was a point to his signing.

 

[Toe Nash]

but he's 21 years old and not a cyborg

Talk about a strawman. Do you honestly think the team hasn't considered his emotions and deemed him able to handle some disappointment and adversity? All we heard all spring was how mature and smart he was.

3b is nearly the wasteland that SS is in the league. He can have just as much value there. If he can't understand that, get over it emotionally and it submarines his career he is probably not cut out mentally for the majors after all.

 

[geoduck no quahog]

Not to re-hash the entire thread, but who on the current roster, as a deduct, brings in the type of talent that improves the team functionally for this year and beyond? No one.
 
That means the only add available would be a bad contract/overpay...which seems to be in the pitcher category right now - which doesn't fill the gaping holes of 2014.
 
The Sox are in an awkward position - where a deduct doesn't bring back anything substantial and an add doesn't seem particularly consequential.
 
Just slog on. Drew will start hitting better, as will Bogaerts. I'm not sure about JBJ. Victorino will come back and under-perform and Holt will be installed in left field. I don't know what the rest of the year plan is for either Carp or Betts.
 
The add/drop deadline doesn't exist. It's time to play it out and look towards 2015 (another thread). Bogaerts was talked about as the future 3rd baseman a long time ago. Marrero seems to be heading towards the SS position. Betts needs to learn the outfield or be traded. JBJ needs to learn how to hit above .225 or be traded. Ross is nearing retirement and Vazquez and/or Swihart need to step up, or be traded (both could use an experienced catcher on their team as a tutor, don't you think?). WMB needs to improve and be traded. The Sox need to seriously consider trading some of their minor league pitching for major-league ready bats in the off season. 
 
In hindsight, probably the biggest lost opportunity for the Sox this year was Nelson Cruz, and the biggest signing mistake was Pershithead. That was the missed add/drop deadline. 

 

[Smiling Joe Hesketh]

Talk about a strawman. Do you honestly think the team hasn't considered his emotions and deemed him able to handle some disappointment and adversity?

 
Yes. Yes, I do. I think the team completely overlooked that part of the equation.

 

[MuzzyField]

At some point this team, in conjunction with any roster addition and/or subtraction, needs to take the foot off the gas, release the pressure valve and redefine the term success for the rest of the season.  Any veteran dissent about this recalibration of goals needs to be traded or DFA'd.  
It sucks, but we have the joy of 2013 to weather through this process. A process that by its very nature is going to be painful.  Growing pains usually are.  If ownership doesn't clearly understand the process to which it outwardly appears to be committed, we're all screwed. 
The team, in its current state, is counter productive to the most important aspect of looking ahead to 2015 and beyond, assessing the kids and determining needs and surpluses.  The $100-million-dollar developmental machine needs to open it's graduate school of major league prospect polishing sooner, rather than later.  This may involve tweaking the major league coaching and support staff, too.
Postponing this process to chase a statistically possible, but highly unlikely playoff birth, pushes this process and its many unanswered questions into 2015, past the off-season where known weaknesses can be addressed and strengths can be maximized.

 

[Bleedred]

At some point this team, in conjunction with any roster addition and/or subtraction, needs to take the foot off the gas, release the pressure valve and redefine the term success for the rest of the season.  Any veteran dissent about this recalibration of goals needs to be traded or DFA'd.  
It sucks, but we have the joy of 2013 to whether through this process. 

I agree with this, and in my view, the time is now.   According to the sims run by Baseball Prospectus: http://www.baseballprospectus.com/odds/ the Red Sox have a 5% or less chance of making the playoffs.  That's chance of success is limited enough for me for the Red Sox to start planning for 2015 and beyond right now.

 

[KillerBs]

The team is in a funny spot, with a bunch of vets that need to be moved along to make room for the kids, but at the same time, at least a couple of those kids are struggling mightily. There is an intense internal struggle for jobs, with tons of guys who cant help but thinking their claim on a position, and a ML career in the mid term, is at stake in practically every game. The uncertainty has to make things harder on everyone.
 
I am thinking that perhaps something along the lines of this 2-step approach makes sense
 
On the player position side of things, if X continues to look utterly befuddled in the next few days, demote him and Bradley to AAA, with the hope that it gets them on track again, with the idea that you expect both back before long in any event. Call up WMB and Hassan or Torres or Victorino, if he is ready. WMB gets another shot at 3B with 1/2 the ABs vs RHPers at 3b and all of them v LHPers, with Holt playing some third and RF to supplement Hassan (or Torres or Victorino). Flush Ross (unless you think it will piss off Lester too much) or AJP (if not) and call up Vazquez. if they think Vazquez should wait until August 1 or so, so be it. 
 
In a month or so, Drew and Herrera get disposed of and Xander and JBJ are called back, assuming they show some signs of life at PAW. We play out 2014, with this lineup:
 
vs RHPers
 
2 Vazquez (or AJP/Ross, whoever is around)
3 Napoli
4 Pedroia
5 WMB or Holt
6 Xander
7 Nava or Holt
8 Bradley or Betts
9 Betts or Victorino or Holt
 
vs,  LHP
 
2 Vazquez
3 Napoli
4 droia
5 WMB
6 Xander
7 Gomes
8 Betts
9 Victorino or Holt
 
This gives Xander and Vazquez a relatively stress-free clear 2 mo. FT trial run at SS and C, and gives WMB, Nava, Betts, Bradley and Holt regular if not FT ABs to also allow further assessment for next year.
 
On the pitching side, the Sox need to clear roster spots for RDLR, Webster and Ranaudo and dispose of Peavy, Badenhop and Breslow no later than August 1.

 

[Hee Sox Choi]

I agree with all of the above from Killer Bs, but we should hold on to Badenhop.  GB machine (given up 1 HR, 11 GIDPs in 44 IP).
 
And I think you mean 2014, not 2015.
 
I don't have a problem with sending down X and JBJ as long as the coaching staff thinks it's a good idea, but I'm sure the experience in the big leagues is probably more important than what they would get in AAA.  Unless they are cratering, which they both kind of are right now.  
 
In 2015, I think getting a power-hitting OF (Kemp subsidized or Stanton) and having Nava be the 4th OF and Brockholt be the UTIF would make for a deep & strong line-up.  

 

[BannedbyNYYFans.com]

I don't care what Johnny Farrell says...
 

 

[dcmissle]

I agree with this, and in my view, the time is now.   According to the sims run by Baseball Prospectus: http://www.baseballprospectus.com/odds/ the Red Sox have a 5% or less chance of making the playoffs.  That's chance of success is limited enough for me for the Red Sox to start planning for 2015 and beyond right now.

Some meat on the 5%. They trail the first WC by 11, the second by 9, with Toronto, NY, KC, Cleve, Chi, and Minn between them and the second WC, Seattle. With 75 games left, that's done.

But a 75-game development season should be of great value to this team. Please don't waste it.

And in that connection, who is the most recent notable player "ruined" by being rushed to the bigs and kept there against all reason when he should have been sent down? Ankiel?

 

[staz]

For the Sox, that would be Cla Meredith in 2005

 

[Red(s)HawksFan]

Some meat on the 5%. They trail the first WC by 11, the second by 9, with Toronto, NY, KC, Cleve, Chi, and Minn between them and the second WC, Seattle. With 75 games left, that's done.

But a 75-game development season should be of great value to this team. Please don't waste it.

And in that connection, who is the most recent notable player "ruined" by being rushed to the bigs and kept there against all reason when he should have been sent down? Ankiel?

 
Ankiel was up for a full season plus (late 99 and all of 2000...208 total innings, 3.46 ERA, 3.93 FIP) before his "problems" emerged in the 2000 post-season.  When he started off 2001 poorly (6 horrific starts), he was sent down.  Don't think he was a victim of being "rushed" or being kept in the big leagues against all reason at all.