The Plan For the #1, er, #3 Overall Pick?
- Thread starter pdaj
- Start date
This isn't just a career killing move, it could be a franchise killer for a decade+.
God I fucking hate this.
Here's the Woj bomb. This is really happening. I can't believe this.
Adrian WojnarowskiVerified account @WojVerticalNBA 15s16 seconds ago
Sixers needed Fultz workout/meeting to complete deal w/ Celtics and, as expected, sides have deal for No. 1 pick. Trade call planned Monday.
Adrian WojnarowskiVerified account @WojVerticalNBA 15s16 seconds ago
Sixers needed Fultz workout/meeting to complete deal w/ Celtics and, as expected, sides have deal for No. 1 pick. Trade call planned Monday.
I don't care if Danny likes Jackson more. He did not get enough value for the pick (assuming it's the 2018 Laker pick and 2021 Sixers).
He better be right about Fultz or this is a mess.
Agreed, I'd be very surprised if it is both of those. I expect it is 2018 Lakers pick and a Philly pick down the road---the rumored 2021 pick is about right, though a little ways down the road.
Hard to see a protection on the Lakers pick that would make sense for Celtics to accept---because the pick would then roll to Philly's own, I assume, in some future year which threatens to be too low to be really valuable. Not a sure thing that happens, and perhaps you do something complicated where it's the Laker pick top 1 (or maybe even top 3) protected, rolls to the Sacto pick in 2019, and if that isn't top 7 (say) Celts get Philly pick that year and 2021. That structure would also explain why the third pick is in 2021.
Of course, I'm also just making all of this up, so...
The difference between Fultz and maybe Jackson doesn't kill a franchise. If Davis is available in 2 years and these assets get him to Boston, I imagine you'd feel much differently.
You think draft picks two years from now is good value here? In hopes of competing to trade for a player that probably won't be made available?
Yikes.
The Lakers pick is 2018. The point was that this ruining the franchise for a decade is a pretty gross exaggeration.
Amazing how shitty I feel given that I'd be happy enough getting Jackson at 3 if that's where the lotto balls fell. Counterintuitive but fuck, we are passing on a guy who can score efficiently from everywhere on the court for a guy who needs to fix his shot and may be a predator off the court to boot.
It's going to be awesome watching Fultz turn into John Wall and Jackson turn into Jeff Green. Absolutely awesome.
The Lakers pick is 2018. The point was that this ruining the franchise for a decade is a pretty gross exaggeration.
Seems like Cs are giving up 2 slots and getting the player DA would take @ 1. Getting the Lakers pick next year and another 1st rounder.
If DA was not going to take Fultz, it's a huge win. I don't know enough to know if Fultz is better than Jackson or Tatum.
Adrian WojnarowskiVerified account @WojVerticalNBA 19s19 seconds ago
Lakers had interest in pursuing a deal for No. 1 pick/Fultz, but Sixers ability to potentially deliver 3 FRP's in deal too much to overcome.
Lakers had interest in pursuing a deal for No. 1 pick/Fultz, but Sixers ability to potentially deliver 3 FRP's in deal too much to overcome.
We have no idea where the Lakers pick ends up, but it may not even end up in the top 8.
If Fultz turns into a stud, and Jackson remains a guy with a shit shot, then, yeah, it fucking killed this teams chance when their real window opens up in 3-5 years.
No, it's not. If Fultz is a star and Jackson is anything short of that, this trade is a massive failure.
There's a good chance that Danny just added another ok player to this team, and the chance to maybe draft another ok player next year and the next James Young in 2021 in exchange for a 20-yo John Wall or James Harden.
Is Jackson even the target? Why finalize on Monday then and not wait to make sure you get your man? Ainge clearly must have at least 3 guy rated relatively equally. This place is going to melt down when it's Tatum.
All I know is that there better be another huge shoe to drop. Fultz is a better talent than Jackson and that's the game the Celtics are in right now. Gather the most talent possible. The Lakers pick could easily be late lottery and who knows where the 21 pick will be. Not sure how those kinds of picks helps this team get past the Cavs or Warriors unless they are traded for a big star. Danny is the king of the trade market but this is the biggest gamble of his career. Not only is he passing on the consensus #1 he is trading it to a division rival who could haunt them for years to come if he reaches his potential.
Sure, lots of if's. I might be wrong but I suspect Jackson won't suit up here and will be moved on draft night.
This was the draft for point guards, and the Celts are giving the best one to their biggest division rival. And the "rumor" (for whatever that's worth) is we won't even be using the #3 pick for the next best PG. There's a thing called "being too clever by half", and this sure feels like it.
Yeah, I'm a big Fultz fan, but downgrading from him to anyone in the top 5 is not a franchise damaging trade, especially when there is a legit chance you get a player better than either with the Lakers pick.
Fultz is really good, if everything goes right maybe he's James Harden, but the best case scenario on Jackson, Tatum and Smith are all pretty high too.
People are falling way too in love with the idea of OMG NUMBER ONE PICK!!!!, this isn't a Lebron season, or even a Durant season (though he didn't go 1), this is a year with a lot of very good players of whom Fultz is the most projectable.
The franchise will be just fine, they'll be one of the top 4 teams in the East next year, with 2 lotto picks coming in 2018 and a smattering of 1sts across the next few.
SURE this could be the first time in league history that trading the #1 pick turns into a disaster, but sometimes you take that risk, especially if you were going to pass on the guy going #1 anyway.
Fultz is really good, if everything goes right maybe he's James Harden, but the best case scenario on Jackson, Tatum and Smith are all pretty high too.
People are falling way too in love with the idea of OMG NUMBER ONE PICK!!!!, this isn't a Lebron season, or even a Durant season (though he didn't go 1), this is a year with a lot of very good players of whom Fultz is the most projectable.
The franchise will be just fine, they'll be one of the top 4 teams in the East next year, with 2 lotto picks coming in 2018 and a smattering of 1sts across the next few.
SURE this could be the first time in league history that trading the #1 pick turns into a disaster, but sometimes you take that risk, especially if you were going to pass on the guy going #1 anyway.
Sure, there's also the chance that Danny just added the best player in this draft, another potential star, a high pick in 2021 for a non-star. That's how draft picks and one and done prospects work.
Perfectly summarized. Do you trade Fultz for #3, 2018 #10 and #25 in 2021? That seems bad, at least right now.
Side note:
Who gives a shit about making PHI better, it's the same as the NFL 'not trading in the division" nonsense. Worry about your team. You sure as heck don't worry that you traded a player you didn't really want to one of the worst teams in the league when you were one of the best teams in the league because MAYBE, they'll be good at some point.
Who gives a shit about making PHI better, it's the same as the NFL 'not trading in the division" nonsense. Worry about your team. You sure as heck don't worry that you traded a player you didn't really want to one of the worst teams in the league when you were one of the best teams in the league because MAYBE, they'll be good at some point.
Man there are some fucking babies in this thread. Christ.
Ainge's track record has given him the right to gamble like this. If he's this confident to make such a big move, sign me up.
I love having a GM with the balls to not do everything safe.
Ainge's track record has given him the right to gamble like this. If he's this confident to make such a big move, sign me up.
I love having a GM with the balls to not do everything safe.
If I didn't have Fultz as the clear #1 on my board.... yes in a heartbeat. And you're projecting out a worst case scenario.
Let me give you another.....
would you trade Fultz for #3, #1 next year and a top 5 pick in 2021? Of course you would, anyone would. The likely return is somewhere in-between those 2 extremes.
You mean their objective is to win? There's not much they can do. They're still a young team without any decent veterans and some pieces that may not fit together. I like this pick's potential but I also think there's some real risk here. If this pick falls outside of top 5, this trade could turn into a shit sandwich fast. It's stressful enough rooting against the Nets and now we might have another!
Fultz has been the consensus #1 for a long time, and with good reason. Sure, there's a chance everything breaks Danny's way and he looks like a genius. I am not holding my breath for that outcome.
Or maybe he really is planning on trading the #3 and he wants the first domino to fall
Adrian WojnarowskiVerified account @WojVerticalNBA 16s17 seconds ago
Sources: For top pick, Sixers planning to send Celtics '17 No. 3 overall pick, '18 FRP (via LA) and '19 FRP (via Kings) - w/ protections.
What are the protections????
Sources: For top pick, Sixers planning to send Celtics '17 No. 3 overall pick, '18 FRP (via LA) and '19 FRP (via Kings) - w/ protections.
What are the protections????
They lost their last 8 games last year in a tankathon and still won 28 games. Now they're adding the #2 pick and have no incentive to lose. Plus Magic is in place and trying to sell tickets. That pick is not going to be top 3, and I doubt it's top 5.
When Jackson goes 2 and Ball is the pick--that's when things will really get interesting!
Yes, that is what I mean. It has been strange watching them tank the last three years and now, not only do they have to do everything to try and win, they can even label that effort ruining an asset for the only rival they acknowledge.
Probably the Sac pick is top 5 or something, which is still better than a 2021 pick from Philly.
First of all, Fultz is not the consensus #1. Before this trade cam up, there was speculation that the C's could pick Jackson first, and several teams supposedly like Ball first. This isn't the LeBron draft.
Secondly, Philly already has the third pick. They're going to a get a very good prospect either way. Sure, it will suck if Fultz blossoms with them, but could just as easily work the other way. Philly is getting, at best, a marginally better shot a stud with the first pick. But they're likely giving up a lot, and what they give up could turn into a stud as well.
Agree 100%. Don't care about this angle- let's see them get that team on the court first.
Also, it's clears Ainge's valuation of Fultz is either the same or worse than some of the other players in the top 5. From his perspective, they're getting another good piece regardless...
Except that the 2019 Sac pick is actually likely to be top 5 and thus disappear.
Literally nobody was saying that anybody other than Fultz was the #1 pick until the last 48 hours.
They are getting Lebron in 2019, so he won't be making any ridiculous deals to win as many games as possible next year.
He better really hope whoever he picks at 3 is better than Fultz. They've got enough god damn depth, even if this ends up as a 5 quarters for a dollar trade I hate it. ugh
Exactly -- let the bidding begin for #3. Sacramento's 5 and 10 could be on the table, or Chicago could get the Jackson piece in the Butler package.
We gots to know.
I'm sure there's a kicker for it to turn into some other pick if that's the case.