Dennis O'Donnell is due on KNBR, SF sports radio and home of the Giants, around midnight eastern time.jimbobim said:
The future at 3rd
- Thread starter MakMan44
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I'll be out but hope to catch him enroute to my destination. I'll see what I can do.soxhop411 said:
If you have access to the inter webs, you can stream at KNBR's web site.
Dennis o'Donnell on KNBR.
--my report was the culmination of a day and a half of phone calls. I surmised that there was a problem with Pablo and that he wasn't coming back. But the 90 percent line was presented to me. The Giants have discussed upping the ante but I'd be surprised. They've discussed 100 million. The feeling I get is one of disrespect of his physical condition being ridiculed and some is money. I'm sticking to what I said. It's difficult to see him back in SF. I've spoken to both SF officials and Sandoval people. I think it's unlikely he's back in SF. I don't throw things against the wall. I got a phone call about this. I didn't seek this out. I was told the Blue Jays are in the mix, but circumstances are hard. I haven't heard any numbers from Boston.
--my report was the culmination of a day and a half of phone calls. I surmised that there was a problem with Pablo and that he wasn't coming back. But the 90 percent line was presented to me. The Giants have discussed upping the ante but I'd be surprised. They've discussed 100 million. The feeling I get is one of disrespect of his physical condition being ridiculed and some is money. I'm sticking to what I said. It's difficult to see him back in SF. I've spoken to both SF officials and Sandoval people. I think it's unlikely he's back in SF. I don't throw things against the wall. I got a phone call about this. I didn't seek this out. I was told the Blue Jays are in the mix, but circumstances are hard. I haven't heard any numbers from Boston.
Listened to the interview.
Nothing earth-shattering. He does seem to think Pablo is good as gone. Also throws out there that he *thinks* Pablo may still be feeling disrespected after talks in spring broke down.
He's quick to point out he is not a beat guy, he's not in locker room etc but he seemed pretty confident panda isn't coming back to sf...
Nothing earth-shattering. He does seem to think Pablo is good as gone. Also throws out there that he *thinks* Pablo may still be feeling disrespected after talks in spring broke down.
He's quick to point out he is not a beat guy, he's not in locker room etc but he seemed pretty confident panda isn't coming back to sf...
I've been following this pretty close from the beginning here's where I believe things stand.
Two sides spent two days together getting to know each other and putting together numbers/frameworks for what it would take. It's no surprise that this morning the news came out of Panda's agent was going to speak with SF at some point today. We've heard all day that the Red Sox were readying an offer to present and I think they are waiting as long as possible so the Giants hand is forced. The Red Sox know the number it's going to take and when they offer the contract to Sandoval they're going to want an answer pretty quick.
I've talked to a few people who think this is wrapped up in the next day or two. Based on all the information that was leaked out there today I think it's likely the Sandoval contract comes in at 5 years/100 million with an easy to activate 6th year option that brings the value of the contract to 120 million.
Tomorrow should be an interesting day.
Two sides spent two days together getting to know each other and putting together numbers/frameworks for what it would take. It's no surprise that this morning the news came out of Panda's agent was going to speak with SF at some point today. We've heard all day that the Red Sox were readying an offer to present and I think they are waiting as long as possible so the Giants hand is forced. The Red Sox know the number it's going to take and when they offer the contract to Sandoval they're going to want an answer pretty quick.
I've talked to a few people who think this is wrapped up in the next day or two. Based on all the information that was leaked out there today I think it's likely the Sandoval contract comes in at 5 years/100 million with an easy to activate 6th year option that brings the value of the contract to 120 million.
Tomorrow should be an interesting day.
Daniel Murphy has one year left on his contract and is reportedly on the block. There may be some uncertainty about his defense at 3b (didn't rate well in a small sample in 2014) but his career UZR/150 at third is -.6 (in a bigger but still small sample). It's a concern, but Panda's not perfect either and Murphy doesn't require a $100 million commitment. Most importantly, he's a LHH that can cover the position (and has a career OPS of .777 against RHP) and he's doesn't cost a ton in salary. Assuming a trade wouldn't require giving up any of their top tier prospects, this really seems like a smarter move then throwing down 9 figures for a guy who put up a close to identical OPS (in 2014) and is overweight and declining.joe dokes said:
I never heard of Dennis O'Donnell and I watch and listen to far too much SF sports talk on TV and radio. What's Andrew Baggarly saying? He is da Man for everything Giants. Have to admit that I have been in Boston for a week and a half though.
Edit, OK, Dennis O'Donnell, Channel 5 sports. Going to go looking for some Andrew Baggarly words.
Edit, OK, Dennis O'Donnell, Channel 5 sports. Going to go looking for some Andrew Baggarly words.
kazuneko said:
I'm not sure you can put aside the fact that he's played only 16 games at 3B last year and 28 in 2011 and was moved off of 3B in the minors because he was beyond terrible. His 3B experience is about on par with Allen Craig's. (first position in the minors, anway). I also don't think you trade people for a bridge, especially when you dont know what's on the other side (can Cecchini be the guy?).
I think the bottom line is a fundamental disagreement on the direction of Sandoval's career, certainly a legitimate concern. But he's only 28, and since the Sox have the bottom-line batting numbers also, I believe that there's more to it than that, or else they wouldn't even be considering him.
grimshaw said:
Be realistic, weirder things have happened. I don't think the chances are high, but they're not zero, and its not "silly". Boston just claim Juan Francisco for 3B insurance, they're obviously looking at every potential option. And you're kidding yourself if you don't think Pedroia-level offense is acceptable offense at every position - the guy's averaged 4 oWAR per season basically. That's Panda's upside basically. And your last statement is a head scratcher. Who has ever heard of a guy being in a contract year being as a not to trade him? The Sox have been looking for trading partners for a Cespedes deal since the day the season ended.
I would also put the bullpen as a substantial need. Right now they have Uehara and Tazawa, both of whom finished last year less than spectacularly, and then nothing but has beens and never weres. There's potential with some of the rotation prospects converting to relief, but there's also potential for WMB and GC to fill 3B.Pozo the Clown said:
Thats what I thought when they signed Crawford.joe dokes said:
I find it shocking that we'd be paying this much money for Pablo. Is there anyone out there that wouldn't take Liriano and Headley over him?
TigerBlood said:
Murphy has been a better offensive player than Pedroia the last three years (an all-star last year too). Would you trade for Pedey to play 3b if he had Murphy's contract status?
If the Mets are out of it in June, then sure I could see Murphy moving, but that team acquiring him would want him for 2B.
And, like I said, the Mets are trying to compete and it doesn't make much sense to move a guy in the last year of his deal when he has much less value and you are trying to win. Who plays 2nd for them?
PrometheusWakefield said:
I'm also not exactly excited. Pablo reminds me of a Mo Vaughn/Youk type player. Guys who are "surprisingly" athletic or agile given their body type. Until age 33 or so.
It's not so much that an underperforming Pablo would sink the club singlehandedly, but he's a risk tied to long term resource commitment. That limits the other risks the Sox can take on - unless they want to court a second 2012 scenario by signing other risks. (Crawford really wasn't the problem. It was Crawford, plus Lackey, plus Gonzalez being less than top notch, plus Bad Beckett, plus Youk falling off the cliff at 33, etc. which was locking the Sox into a .500 team with seemingly untraceable contracts.)
One thing that give me pause is that the Sox really don't have any albatross contracts right now. Check out Cot's - https://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=tz8qHiYrIzlFtVnly7gibjw&output=html
Even if he tails off, one "Pablo" is fine. I just don't think the Sox can afford to have 2 or 3 of those guys on the roster, 2 or 3 years from now.
That's why you don't present as long an offer to Headley. But I guess he isn't on their radar, unfortunately.joe dokes said:
grimshaw said:
I'm sorry, maybe its me, I am not understanding you anymore.
Murphy has not been better by any measure, sorry. That's really easy to look up. Murphy has OPS+ of 103,108 and 111. DP has been 114, 115, 101. And your first question makes little sense/is irrelevant/Yes?
And, I've already proved your theory that it NEVER makes sense to move a guy in a year before he hits FA wrong (its like us with Cespedes). I think the Mets would be happy to get someone like Cespedes to fill their outfield hole for Murphy. That trade makes perfect sense for them. And they have Flores and Herrera to man second if Murphy is moved.
Al Zarilla said:
O'Donnell broke the Pence/Phillies trade a couple years ago and was similiarly ridiculed.
http://www.bayareasportsguy.com/dennis-odonnell-was-right-giants-trade-for-hunter-pence/
https://twitter.com/KPIXSPORTS/status/229804533486854144
How about offensive WAR? Is that a good enough measure?. 25.5 to 22.5 over the past three years. You're ignoring baserunning completely.TigerBlood said:
Either way, Murphy was definitely better last year, and we're splitting hairs over the past 3 years.
Daniel Murphy isn't really a 3B and the Mets are competing for a playoff spot this year. I don't you understand what you're missing? Since 2012 he's played 141 innings there. You move him off of 2B and he loses value for anyone.
Cespedes doesn't want to re-sign with the Red Sox and would not accommodate moving him to RF. Hence having a surplus of outfielders and needing to move him and his coveted power for something.
The Mets don't have a ready 2B to step up and take Murphy's place and don't need to or are not motivated to move him.
edit: Desnarked a bit.
Mike F said:
Or, he could re-up with the Giants and Jon Miller will say: "Panda to Panik to Posey".
But is that such a problem? Between Francisco, WMB, Holt, Cecchini and a Marrero call up moving X to third, isn't it perfectly likely we can cobble together average MLB production from 3b without adding anyone to the roster?MakMan44 said:
It seems strange to me that a team that is pretty good except has basically no rotation at all is about to drop 9 figures on a third baseman.
Francisco is very interesting. Horrible fielder. 9 errors in just 74 games at 3b. In 2013 he had a -0.7 dWAR.
And not good at getting on base. Last 4 years' OBP: .289, .278, .296, .300.
But very good power. Not elite power, but very good. In 2013 he had 18 homers in just 348 ab, and in 2014 he had 16 homers in just 287 ab.
He'll be 28 in 2015.
He is, in some ways, what we think WMB would be if given enough at-bats. Francisco has 30-hr potential over a full season. Can you live with bad fielding and bad OBP and put this guy in the #9 slot in the lineup and just let him whack 30 homers a year? Or could you live with this for a year or two until Cecchini is ready?
You could always slide Holt into 3b in the late innings for defensive purposes.
And the cost of this would be next to nothing. Which would allow the Sox to go get the two best SP on the market: Lester and Scherzer.
I actually think the OF defense, the IF defense with Napoli, Pedroia, and Vazquez, the improved offense from Cespedes and Castillo and Betts and (hopefully) Bogaerts can compensate for Francisco's bad D and lack of OBP. And holy crap the 1-2 of Lester and Scherzer would be amazing.
And not good at getting on base. Last 4 years' OBP: .289, .278, .296, .300.
But very good power. Not elite power, but very good. In 2013 he had 18 homers in just 348 ab, and in 2014 he had 16 homers in just 287 ab.
He'll be 28 in 2015.
He is, in some ways, what we think WMB would be if given enough at-bats. Francisco has 30-hr potential over a full season. Can you live with bad fielding and bad OBP and put this guy in the #9 slot in the lineup and just let him whack 30 homers a year? Or could you live with this for a year or two until Cecchini is ready?
You could always slide Holt into 3b in the late innings for defensive purposes.
And the cost of this would be next to nothing. Which would allow the Sox to go get the two best SP on the market: Lester and Scherzer.
I actually think the OF defense, the IF defense with Napoli, Pedroia, and Vazquez, the improved offense from Cespedes and Castillo and Betts and (hopefully) Bogaerts can compensate for Francisco's bad D and lack of OBP. And holy crap the 1-2 of Lester and Scherzer would be amazing.
Translation:
From the setting of Pablo Sandoval RedSox did confirm that a satisfactory offer . Now waiting for the other stakeholders
Also he says Sandoval and his Agent are meeting with the Padres in Florida today.
I would translate it as something like: Pablo's people confirm the Red Sox made a satisfactory offer. Now they wait for other interested persons.
Spot on according to my mediocre Spanish. I think "Desde el entorno de Pablo Sandoval" basically means "Sandoval's camp"DennyDoyle'sBoil said:
The Giants have been asked to submit their final offer. Bobby Evans the Asst. GM says they feel Giants are "in the mix" but it will come down to years and money with Pablo.
This thing is wrapping up.
http://blog.sfgate.com/giants/2014/11/20/sf-giants-feel-they-are-right-in-the-middle-of-sandoval-talks/
This thing is wrapping up.
http://blog.sfgate.com/giants/2014/11/20/sf-giants-feel-they-are-right-in-the-middle-of-sandoval-talks/
Corsi said:
Paying Pablo about 16m through his age 33 season doesn't sound so terrible. Definitely a lot better than when it sounded like it was 5 years at 100m+.
Well that's the thing. The Red Sox sure don't seem to think so. I'd tend to agree with them, but there is an argument to be made against it.PrometheusWakefield said:
EDIT: As I mentioned early, I think their evaluation of the internal options and looking at upcoming FA options caused them to think that they could get more value out of Pablo or Headley and trading Cecchini or letting him have more time in the minors. It's clear at this point that your suggestion is their back up plan at best, not that it's the incorrect path to take. It's just not the one the FO is on right now.
MakMan44 said:
Same here. The point is they need to add wins. There's nothing that requires they do so by adding pitching and not hitting. Maybe they think they improve overall more by signing Pablo and trading Cecchini/Marrero/WMB for pitching than by keeping all of them and signing multiple pitchers.
Sandoval's Camp would be great.
"Today's demonstration on plate discipline has been cancelled and we'll all be meeting for churros and ice cream."
"Today's demonstration on plate discipline has been cancelled and we'll all be meeting for churros and ice cream."
ivanvamp said:
I'm not sure he has 30-hr potential over a full season, and I think part of his power production (and...gulp...part of his on base skills) is due to his matchups and platoon splits, which doesn't project evenly over 162. His numbers against LHP (I won't put them here because they are SSS over just 150 career PAs) are somewhere between what ivanvamp and myself would manage if given a uniform, but basically you can roughly consider it a managerial mistake any time he faces a lefty. If he got every RHP at bat possible, he would add about 100 ABs compared to last year, and bump his production from 16 HRs to maybe 20-22.
Useful power, but we don't want to get ahead of ourselves on an atrocious fielder who can't hit lefties, strikes out in 40% of his at bats and get's on base under .300.
koufax37 said:
The only way Francisco has 30-hr power potential over a full season is if he took the time in Toronto last summer to attend the Jose Bautista/Edwin Encarnacion seminar on "Mysteriously Developing into One of the Best Hitters on the Planet at Age 29, Perhaps with the Aid of Friends in the Dominican Republic."
About the concern on this board as to a possible Sandoval contract: fear of being stuck with dead money makes some sense, although there's no chance of a Crawford-scale disaster; but there's no way BC is taking his eyes off fixing the rotation, so let's not worry about that. If the Sox lose out on Lester or others, it won't because they spent too much elsewhere. Pretty sure they'd be willing to crack the cap in '15 for realistic value, on assumption that they'll have several cost-controlled regulars in future years.
Perhaps Sox said, get your best offer from the Giants and we'll negotiate from there? Nothing to panic about, just negotiations.BornToRun said:
I wonder if the Red Sox haven't actually made an offer (Edes' source) but Panda is trying to drum it up to get the Giants bidding (his Spanish leaks).BornToRun said:
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