Romeo Langford - Pick #14

HomeRunBaker

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Speaking of Langfords work ethic (which I dont have an opinion on), I was a little shocked to hear Scal talking shit about his "intensity".

Do we mark that up to Scal being pissy about having to skype with Abbie and guest of the Night during summer league? Or have others witnessed him taking some plays off.
That’s always been the knock on Romeo dating back to Indiana and prior. He falls asleep at times defensively.
 

HomeRunBaker

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I think Romeo has a laid back demeanor and some people take that as a negative (I don't, you can be laid back and work your ass off). I remember a game where CBS was yelling at Romeo during a time out and Romeo turned and walked away with a smirk when the timeout was over. Scal said something about it at the time. That's the only example I can think of.
Was that the infamous “Shut The F#%&” scream directed at Brad or a different one?
 

lovegtm

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Romeo is going to generate some nice quoted posts from this thread for me. Looks way more comfortable than in summer league, and fits well with the good lineups.
 

benhogan

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Romeo is going to generate some nice quoted posts from this thread for me. Looks way more comfortable than in summer league, and fits well with the good lineups.
Yep, you and HRB have been pretty steadfast about Romeo

Tatum/Brown take the vast majority of their 3's above the break. Al will be setting screens at the top & popping for 3s above the break. If Marcus or Denis can get any penetration wide-open corner 3s will be there for the 3rd wing

Hopefully, Romeo/Grant/Nesmith/Hernangomez are practicing and holding daily competitions amongst themselves on corner 3s.

Romeo hitting that shot would be massive since he can be a +defender and has dribble-drive skills
 

TripleOT

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Romeo played the perfect complementary game as a starter in the second preseason game. He made threes, with confident looking catch and shoots. The couple of times he pressed his offense, the baseline floater/push shot and the coast to coaster, he looked in control. His defense was solid, and his defensive skill set is perfect for Udoka’s switch everything scheme.

If Romeo could play this solid, he makes an intriguing fifth starter. It gives the second unit more of a veteran presence, with JRich joining DS as veteran non bigs to pair with PP and Nesmith/Grant.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Romeo played the perfect complementary game as a starter in the second preseason game. He made threes, with confident looking catch and shoots. The couple of times he pressed his offense, the baseline floater/push shot and the coast to coaster, he looked in control. His defense was solid, and his defensive skill set is perfect for Udoka’s switch everything scheme.

If Romeo could play this solid, he makes an intriguing fifth starter. It gives the second unit more of a veteran presence, with JRich joining DS as veteran non bigs to pair with PP and Nesmith/Grant.
That is his ideal role/usage. One more reason why SL scouting/numbers can be misleading and/or worthless as you have guys in roles that they won’t be playing in with the big club. I’m concerned with how Ime is going to manage the playing time issues when they come up (early) this season. He has like 13 guys expecting to be in the rotation. Something to keep an eye on.
 

the moops

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I count 13 exactly Is something to keep an eye out for. I agree

Smart, Schroder, Pritchard
Tatum, Brown, Richardson, Nesmith, Langford, Grant
Horford, Williams, Kanter, Juancho
 

chilidawg

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Not a horrible problem to have. Good flexibility down the road for BS to make an upgrade if needed, good depth for the inevitable injury/rest issues. And all the more reason to use the last slot or two on a development guy who can play in Maine rather than Jabari. Maybe Carson Edwards is available.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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I count 13 exactly Is something to keep an eye out for. I agree

Smart, Schroder, Pritchard
Tatum, Brown, Richardson, Nesmith, Langford, Grant
Horford, Williams, Kanter, Juancho
Kanter is not going to get regular minutes.

It's really 8 players going to get regular minutes with AN, RL, GW, and JH divvying up the 9-10 minutes until someone makes a leap.
 

Cesar Crespo

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Not a horrible problem to have. Good flexibility down the road for BS to make an upgrade if needed, good depth for the inevitable injury/rest issues. And all the more reason to use the last slot or two on a development guy who can play in Maine rather than Jabari. Maybe Carson Edwards is available.
Or just give it to Garrison Mathews because we know he can shoot the rock and shooting is always valuable. He's also not a smurf. Thing about Carsen Edwards, he's only 9 days younger than Tatum. How much development does he really have left? Memphis cut him a month ago, so it's hard to tell if he had any summer gains but it was probably his last real summer of non incremental growth. It'll be funny if Tremont Waters is in the NBA this year and Carsen isn't, though. I think the latter is a much better player and I was maybe his biggest distractor on the board. He needs to hit the 3 at at least an average clip to have any type of NBA career. With his range and ability to score, that should be enough to carve out an NBA career.

Looking at Tremont, he did show year over year improvement in key areas (shooting, assist %) while Carsen regressed in pretty much every category besides TO%. (Carsen has very low TO%) Both their sample sizes are miniscule though. I did not notice Tremont shot .395 from 3 last year, granted only on 38 attempts. For his NBA career, he's 24/25 from the FT line. He's the better playmaker of the two but a lot of that is negated by the fact Waters is a TO machine and Edwards is the opposite. In 357 NBA minutes, Waters has 42 TO. In 627 NBA minutes, Carsen has 22.

They still have a 2nd 2 way deal to hand out too afaik. I'm not sure if you can give 2 way deals to players who had NBA contracts but if you can, I'd like Sekou in that spot.
 

Cesar Crespo

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Kanter is not going to get regular minutes.

It's really 8 players going to get regular minutes with AN, RL, GW, and JH divvying up the 9-10 minutes until someone makes a leap.
He'll probably get more minutes than you think given the other 2 bigs are TL and Al. I guess it's possible Grant Williams gets those minutes instead. That would be a good development.

Worrying about minutes in the regular season before the season starts is almost always a nothing burger. The top 8 will probably miss close to a season's worth of games combined.

The C's played 17380 minutes in 72 games last year. Using easy math, that means 10 players could have played 1738 minutes in a season or 24.1 minutes per game. Only 2 Celtics played more than 1738 minutes last year. 6 players averaged around 24 minutes per game or more, and that's not including Evan Fournier. Granted the C's had a crazy amount of missed games last year but it just goes to show you that breaking down 240 minutes amongst 15 healthy players is pointless.

Going by MPG, the following 8 players combined for 220.1 mpg. There are 240 mpg. Those 8 players are Tatum, Brown, Smart, Walker, TT, Theis, TL, PP. So by MPG, they played 91.7% of all minutes.

By Minutes played, the same 8 players combined for 11959 minutes, or 68.9% of all minutes played. Over the course of the season, that's a difference of 3978 minutes or 48.5 mpg.


I know when people say regular minutes they mean when the team is fully suited, will that player play. Teams are almost never fully suited though.
 

benhogan

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He'll probably get more minutes than you think given the other 2 bigs are TL and Al. I guess it's possible Grant Williams gets those minutes instead. That would be a good development.

Worrying about minutes in the regular season before the season starts is almost always a nothing burger. The top 8 will probably miss close to a season's worth of games combined.

The C's played 17380 minutes in 72 games last year. Using easy math, that means 10 players could have played 1738 minutes in a season or 24.1 minutes per game. Only 2 Celtics played more than 1738 minutes last year. 6 players averaged around 24 minutes per game or more, and that's not including Evan Fournier. Granted the C's had a crazy amount of missed games last year but it just goes to show you that breaking down 240 minutes amongst 15 healthy players is pointless.

Going by MPG, the following 8 players combined for 220.1 mpg. There are 240 mpg. Those 8 players are Tatum, Brown, Smart, Walker, TT, Theis, TL, PP. So by MPG, they played 91.7% of all minutes.

By Minutes played, the same 8 players combined for 11959 minutes, or 68.9% of all minutes played. Over the course of the season, that's a difference of 3978 minutes or 48.5 mpg.


I know when people say regular minutes they mean when the team is fully suited, will that player play. Teams are almost never fully suited though.
the "minutes crunch" stuff is silly, especially when our 2nd best player is already out with a positive COVID test
 

ManicCompression

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I count 13 exactly Is something to keep an eye out for. I agree

Smart, Schroder, Pritchard
Tatum, Brown, Richardson, Nesmith, Langford, Grant
Horford, Williams, Kanter, Juancho
I think (like others) that Kanter will play less and I also think that Pritchard will play less in favor of someone like Richardson running the point.

Outside of the limited depth at C, it's a really interesting and flexible roster that can match up against most teams. The inevitable injuries will happen (particularly with Langford and Time Lord's history) and we're in a much better spot to handle those in season's past.

Can't wait for this one to start. I don't know that they'll be a top 4 team in the east, but I like everyone up and down the roster (outside of Schroder) and I think they're going to play a style much more pleasing to the eye vs. last year. Having that kind of playmaking at C is such a great luxury and we finally have some size in the backcourt to match up with bigger playmaking guards.
 

the moops

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I wouldn't say they have limited depth at C at all. How many teams have a 3rd center as good as Enes Kanter? And Bruno is pretty terrible, but it completely serviceable as emergency # 4 center.
 

Cesar Crespo

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I wouldn't say they have limited depth at C at all. How many teams have a 3rd center as good as Enes Kanter? And Bruno is pretty terrible, but it completely serviceable as emergency # 4 center.
Is Bruno even the 4th? It's probably Grant Williams.
 

benhogan

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Is Bruno even the 4th? It's probably Grant Williams.
Juancho would probably fall in there also as center depth.

The roster depth is good, but wouldn't be opposed to using the second 2-way (w/Mathews as the 15th man) on another BIG as a break the glass in case of emergency 5. TL is injury prone and Al is old.

OR they can keep an eye on G-League Centers in case they need to sign a BIG (and keep GM on a 2-way) during the season
 

HomeRunBaker

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Juancho shouldn't expect playing time.
Answer honestly. If you were entering your prime at 26, been a regular rotation player each of the last 3 years avg 19mpg, with half of that time on a 54-win team where you also had 25 starts…..you wouldn’t expect to be in the rotation getting regular playing time? I’m not even him and I expect him to be in the rotation.
 

JM3

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After Pace & Space, what comes next? Because it's not like the game is going to slow down.

Faster & Vaster?
 

Cesar Crespo

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Answer honestly. If you were entering your prime at 26, been a regular rotation player each of the last 3 years avg 19mpg, with half of that time on a 54-win team where you also had 25 starts…..you wouldn’t expect to be in the rotation getting regular playing time? I’m not even him and I expect him to be in the rotation.
That time on the 54 win team was 3 seasons ago. In 19/20, he played in 34 out of 51 possible games and racked up 17 DNP CDs, playing 12 minutes per before being traded away to the Wolves. Last year he was a regular rotation player but still missed 20 games and wasn't all that great for a terrible Wolves team.

Maybe he expects it, but he shouldn't. He's going to get a healthy amount of DNP CDs.

What is regular playing time anyway? If they are healthy, they will play? I count 8 guys.
 

mcpickl

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Kanter is not going to get regular minutes.

It's really 8 players going to get regular minutes with AN, RL, GW, and JH divvying up the 9-10 minutes until someone makes a leap.
If Al and Rob Williams both start, Kanter is going to get regular minutes as the backup center.

My guess is that is what happens when everyone is available.
 

ManicCompression

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I wouldn't say they have limited depth at C at all. How many teams have a 3rd center as good as Enes Kanter? And Bruno is pretty terrible, but it completely serviceable as emergency # 4 center.
Time Lord hasn't been super reliable in terms of health and Horford is 36 - that's what I meant by depth. I'm concerned that we may have to go through large stretches of the season with Kanter as our 1C. We have a lot of good guys at the position, but is it realistic for us to expect health? That's my pov
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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If Al and Rob Williams both start, Kanter is going to get regular minutes as the backup center.

My guess is that is what happens when everyone is available.
Why? Even if they start together, Ime can stagger Al and Rob's minutes so one of them is on the floor at all times.

To me, Enes plays only against certain matchups, when there are injuries, or in garbage time. Maybe there are enough matchups where he might play "regularly" (I haven't done a dive into it) but like I said above, when healthy, there are 8 guys who are going to be playing substantial minutes and the other 4 or 5 or 6 guys will play based on matchups or until someone pops.
 

mcpickl

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Why? Even if they start together, Ime can stagger Al and Rob's minutes so one of them is on the floor at all times.

To me, Enes plays only against certain matchups, when there are injuries, or in garbage time. Maybe there are enough matchups where he might play "regularly" (I haven't done a dive into it) but like I said above, when healthy, there are 8 guys who are going to be playing substantial minutes and the other 4 or 5 or 6 guys will play based on matchups or until someone pops.
This would be nearly impossible if they want to keep the group on the floor in rhythm at all.

If they start together, as I think they will, it's because they want them to play together.

Not just a couple minutes at the beginning of halves then yank them in and out of the game so they can play separately to avoid playing Kanter.

If they start, it's because they believe Kanter can be in their rotation nightly.

I don't agree with it, but I think it's what they're doing.
 

HomeRunBaker

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This would be nearly impossible if they want to keep the group on the floor in rhythm at all.

If they start together, as I think they will, it's because they want them to play together.

Not just a couple minutes at the beginning of halves then yank them in and out of the game so they can play separately to avoid playing Kanter.

If they start, it's because they believe Kanter can be in their rotation nightly.

I don't agree with it, but I think it's what they're doing.
I agree with all this. As excited as I was for Ime to be a coaching upgrade I am not just underwhelmed by some of his apparent decision…….but left scratching my head. So much doesn’t make any sense. I went from the Celtics being a huge season prop team for me (along with Chicago) to probably passing on them altogether.
 

chilidawg

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I agree with all this. As excited as I was for Ime to be a coaching upgrade I am not just underwhelmed by some of his apparent decision…….but left scratching my head. So much doesn’t make any sense. I went from the Celtics being a huge season prop team for me (along with Chicago) to probably passing on them altogether.
Based on ..... 2 preseason games?
 

HomeRunBaker

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Based on ..... 2 preseason games?
Based on him implying prior to these games that Horford would start, presumably with TL, and forcing Smart to play out of position…..yes. What other information do we have suggesting he won’t be running that lineup out there thus creating what I would consider some second unit issues as well by starting that lineup.
 

lovegtm

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Based on him implying prior to these games that Horford would start, presumably with TL, and forcing Smart to play out of position…..yes. What other information do we have suggesting he won’t be running that lineup out there thus creating what I would consider some second unit issues as well by starting that lineup.
He benched Hernangomez for all of meaningful play in game 2 after starting him in game 1. Also substantially increased Grant and Romeo's roles. Even if he starts with some of the configurations you dislike, it looks like he'll be pretty open to iterating if necessary.
 

benhogan

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Based on him implying prior to these games that Horford would start, presumably with TL, and forcing Smart to play out of position…..yes. What other information do we have suggesting he won’t be running that lineup out there thus creating what I would consider some second unit issues as well by starting that lineup.
We really need one of Grant, Juancho, Romeo or Nesmith to stand out (be the 3rd wing to the JAYs) and lessen the minutes of Al/TL together.

Sharing/increasing TL & Horford regular-season minutes and forcing Kanter minutes isn't a great idea if DEFENSE is going to be their signature.

I'm hoping Kyle Anderson is a potential option at the trade deadline if one of those first 4 doesn't step it up.
 

chilidawg

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Based on him implying prior to these games that Horford would start, presumably with TL, and forcing Smart to play out of position…..yes. What other information do we have suggesting he won’t be running that lineup out there thus creating what I would consider some second unit issues as well by starting that lineup.
Virtually zero information, which is why it's way too early for this take.
 

BaseballJones

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After Pace & Space, what comes next? Because it's not like the game is going to slow down.

Faster & Vaster?
I don't get the "pace" part of the equation here. I mean in the 80s, teams ran like crazy. It was constant up-and-down the court, more so than we see today.

1985-86 Celtics: 101.2 pace
2020-21 Celtics: 98.3 pace

The crazy thing about the 80s is that they constantly pushed the ball up the court, but when it wasn't there, then they operated the half court mainly through the low post. They obviously do half-court offense totally differently today, but it's not like they're playing the game faster than they did back then.

Maybe by pace we mean shooting earlier in the shot clock? That's probably it, as there are more possessions in today's NBA than in the past.
 

JM3

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I don't get the "pace" part of the equation here. I mean in the 80s, teams ran like crazy. It was constant up-and-down the court, more so than we see today.

1985-86 Celtics: 101.2 pace
2020-21 Celtics: 98.3 pace

The crazy thing about the 80s is that they constantly pushed the ball up the court, but when it wasn't there, then they operated the half court mainly through the low post. They obviously do half-court offense totally differently today, but it's not like they're playing the game faster than they did back then.

Maybe by pace we mean shooting earlier in the shot clock? That's probably it, as there are more possessions in today's NBA than in the past.
I think that was mainly a function of terrible fast break defense.

It could be as simple as the players themselves being faster & more athletic. Or it could have to do with the speed with which the ball is rotated around.

An offense where a guy dribbles until another guy had his man properly sealed, then got the entry pass in, then a bunch of dribbles & moves & then a shot was quite slow by comparison.
 

Cesar Crespo

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We really need one of Grant, Juancho, Romeo or Nesmith to stand out (be the 3rd wing to the JAYs) and lessen the minutes of Al/TL together.

Sharing/increasing TL & Horford regular-season minutes and forcing Kanter minutes isn't a great idea if DEFENSE is going to be their signature.

I'm hoping Kyle Anderson is a potential option at the trade deadline if one of those first 4 doesn't step it up.
What is Josh Richardson? How is he any less a wing than those 4?
 

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I don't get the "pace" part of the equation here. I mean in the 80s, teams ran like crazy. It was constant up-and-down the court, more so than we see today.

1985-86 Celtics: 101.2 pace
2020-21 Celtics: 98.3 pace

The crazy thing about the 80s is that they constantly pushed the ball up the court, but when it wasn't there, then they operated the half court mainly through the low post. They obviously do half-court offense totally differently today, but it's not like they're playing the game faster than they did back then.

Maybe by pace we mean shooting earlier in the shot clock? That's probably it, as there are more possessions in today's NBA than in the past.
Could it be that in an era where no one really shot 3s fast break points were by far the easiest source of high efficiency scoring? I realize there is possibly some circular reasoning behind that intuition.
 

BaseballJones

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Could it be that in an era where no one really shot 3s fast break points were by far the easiest source of high efficiency scoring? I realize there is possibly some circular reasoning behind that intuition.
Well it's definitely true that getting fast break layups was a highly efficient way of scoring. I think teams eschew hitting the offensive glass these days and favor getting back, in hopes of discouraging fast break opportunities by their opponents. And with the explosion of three point shooting, teams are still able to put up 115+ points without the need for lots of fast breaks.

My only point behind all that was that the pace of play seemed to be faster in the 1980s when teams ran and ran as much as possible, so it's funny to me that the term "Pace and Space" is a thing. Space, yes. Pace? Not as much as it used to be, IMO.
 

slamminsammya

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Well it's definitely true that getting fast break layups was a highly efficient way of scoring. I think teams eschew hitting the offensive glass these days and favor getting back, in hopes of discouraging fast break opportunities by their opponents. And with the explosion of three point shooting, teams are still able to put up 115+ points without the need for lots of fast breaks.

My only point behind all that was that the pace of play seemed to be faster in the 1980s when teams ran and ran as much as possible, so it's funny to me that the term "Pace and Space" is a thing. Space, yes. Pace? Not as much as it used to be, IMO.
Ah, I think this hits the spot - it was the offensive rebounding. Guys used to crash the offensive boards hard, which is a natural tradeoff with transition defense. I am sold on this explanation. I realize this is a digression unrelated to the original point, I was just curious why the game was so much faster in the 80s.
 

Cesar Crespo

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Well it's definitely true that getting fast break layups was a highly efficient way of scoring. I think teams eschew hitting the offensive glass these days and favor getting back, in hopes of discouraging fast break opportunities by their opponents. And with the explosion of three point shooting, teams are still able to put up 115+ points without the need for lots of fast breaks.

My only point behind all that was that the pace of play seemed to be faster in the 1980s when teams ran and ran as much as possible, so it's funny to me that the term "Pace and Space" is a thing. Space, yes. Pace? Not as much as it used to be, IMO.
Because they are comparing it to the 90's.
 

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Ah, I think this hits the spot - it was the offensive rebounding. Guys used to crash the offensive boards hard, which is a natural tradeoff with transition defense. I am sold on this explanation. I realize this is a digression unrelated to the original point, I was just curious why the game was so much faster in the 80s.
Agreed. Plus the fact that teams' half-court offenses generally involved 2-3 players in the lane or thereabouts, thus making it harder to get a full defensive group back to stop fast-breaks. It may be a bit of a chicken/egg question as low-post offenses declined as fast-break defenses improved.

Back to Kanter, I think that people sometimes forget that a full 82-game NBA season will have plenty of time where having a rebounding/low-post machine who is crappy on defense will be worth having on the court against opposing teams' deep depth.
 

benhogan

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What is Josh Richardson? How is he any less a wing than those 4?
JRich is going to play his minutes.

I was thinking more in terms of players that could surprise to the upside. Force their way into minutes, which would hopefully lessen the need to play Horford and Rob Williams together.

I'm not a fan of Al playing as a wing for several reasons, where do you fall on that?
 

Cesar Crespo

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JRich is going to play his minutes.

I was thinking more in terms of players that could surprise to the upside. Force their way into minutes, which would hopefully lessen the need to play Horford and Rob Williams together.

I'm not a fan of Al playing as a wing for several reasons, where do you fall on that?
Depends on the team. TL/AL is a lot different than Theis/TT. On offense and defense.

I don't think it's going to happen that often but we will see it from time to time.

You just said "3rd" wing and I think that's clearly JRich. Ideally, they'd find a "big" wing but the only who fits that mold is Bruno. He's not very good at basketball despite being a physical freak.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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This would be nearly impossible if they want to keep the group on the floor in rhythm at all.

If they start together, as I think they will, it's because they want them to play together.

Not just a couple minutes at the beginning of halves then yank them in and out of the game so they can play separately to avoid playing Kanter.

If they start, it's because they believe Kanter can be in their rotation nightly.

I don't agree with it, but I think it's what they're doing.
You raise an interesting point. If TL and Al start, and the starting unit plays - as is traditional - the first 5-7 minutes of each half and the last 4-6 minutes of each half AND the Cs are limiting TL's minutes to no more than 25, then yes Kanter is going to get 10-12 regular minutes in most games.

Which, however, is incongruent with the switch-everything defense that the Cs have been playing throughout this preseason, at least IMO.

I will be very interested in seeing what the closing lineup will be when the real games start. If it's not TL, Al, JB, JT, and MS - and I'm not saying it should be this lineup - Ime will have some egos to massage.
 

Cesar Crespo

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You raise an interesting point. If TL and Al start, and the starting unit plays - as is traditional - the first 5-7 minutes of each half and the last 4-6 minutes of each half AND the Cs are limiting TL's minutes to no more than 25, then yes Kanter is going to get 10-12 regular minutes in most games.

Which, however, is incongruent with the switch-everything defense that the Cs have been playing throughout this preseason, at least IMO.

I will be very interested in seeing what the closing lineup will be when the real games start. If it's not TL, Al, JB, JT, and MS - and I'm not saying it should be this lineup - Ime will have some egos to massage.
Would they be crazy enough to run a no big lineup?
 

HomeRunBaker

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Virtually zero information, which is why it's way too early for this take.
Well the full season prop market ends after one more exhibition so I can only use the information in front of me. My initial feelings are that I’m not on board with what it seems like he’s looking to do.


Zoom and Room?
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