Romeo Langford - Pick #14

JM3

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Wasn’t most of Young’s work done in 4Q blowouts though? That is my recollection anyway.
He only played 8.5 mpg for his 95 game career (compared to 13.1 in 50 games for Romeo) so yeah he wasn't exactly playing crunch time.

It's just impressive how awful Romeo's 50 games have been statistically even though it looks like there is an actual player in there.

35.3% fg, 22.2% 3s, 5.2 PER, -5.0 BPM, etc.
 

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This is off topic, but I loved the spring training stories about how “Player A looks like he has put on 25 pounds of muscle and is poised to really show his power” and “Player B has dropped weight to improve his bat speed and is poised to really show his power”
"He's bigger, faster, stronger!"
 

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I am still high on Romeo. He's had buzzard's luck since college, but I am of the belief that his myriad of setbacks were fluky. Langford is going to get on a good roll and show what he can do, and I think C's fans will be pleasantly surprised.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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Actually, statistically speaking, James Young was better than Romeo has been in every single aspect of basketball except free throws & blocks, including advanced defensive stats.

But yeah, I'm not actually giving up hope & is a tiny sample-size.
Basically this means that defensive stats are about as good as Romeo's offensive production as it was pretty apparent that James Young couldn't guard anyone and it's pretty apparent that Romeo is at the very least a passable defender.
 

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Basically this means that defensive stats are about as good as Romeo's offensive production as it was pretty apparent that James Young couldn't guard anyone and it's pretty apparent that Romeo is at the very least a passable defender.
Yeah if anyone wants to compare them offensively, go nuts. I think that it's unfair to Romeo due to his injury bug, but neither he nor Young showed anything offensively.

Anyone who watched both players and wants to compare them defensively is drunk. Def stats are still junk anyway, but small sample def stats are double and triple junk. I'm not convinced that James Young ever checked anyone. Romeo has had some games with more good defense than a lifetime of Young.
 

JakeRae

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He only played 8.5 mpg for his 95 game career (compared to 13.1 in 50 games for Romeo) so yeah he wasn't exactly playing crunch time.

It's just impressive how awful Romeo's 50 games have been statistically even though it looks like there is an actual player in there.

35.3% fg, 22.2% 3s, 5.2 PER, -5.0 BPM, etc.
None of those are advanced defensive stats though. By D-LEBRON, for example, Romeo’s two seasons have both been better than any season by Young even though neither has been particularly great.
 

reggiecleveland

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This is off topic, but I loved the spring training stories about how “Player A looks like he has put on 25 pounds of muscle and is poised to really show his power” and “Player B has dropped weight to improve his bat speed and is poised to really show his power”
Guy who has added a pitch, guy who has simplified his repertoire both looking to be more dominant.
Guy who played winter ball, guy who has learned to listen his body looking refreshed,
etc

Hoops
adding range, focusing on getting to the paint,
 

lexrageorge

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James Young had multiple training camps and summer league appearances to prove himself, and was healthy to boot.

Romeo came into the league recovering from surgery, had his rookie season interrupted by the pandemic, and then terminated with another wrist surgery which took him an inordinate time to recover from. The injury and the pandemic meant no training camp or summer league entering his second season, and he then got CoVid just as he was ready to make his season debut after the surgery. By then, the Celtics were playing for their playoff lives and really weren't about to freely expend developmental minutes.

Now, it may be Romeo is really James Young bad. Or simply injury prone. Or even both. And maybe the last should be the null hypothesis until we see otherwise. But he is actually getting his first opportunity to truly exhibit his skills in a perfect situation, after his first ever healthy offseason. I'm willing to see what he does in summer league and in training camp before writing him off as James Young redux.
 

JM3

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None of those are advanced defensive stats though. By D-LEBRON, for example, Romeo’s two seasons have both been better than any season by Young even though neither has been particularly great.
Yeah, I was just talking about the standard b-ref ones like DWS & DBPM.

Their D-LEBRONS are both negative & similar, but yeah, Romeo slightly better.

My point never was that Romeo was a worse player than James Young or doesn't have an NBA future - just that for a variety of reasons his small sample-size stats are really awful, like James Young awful.

So he has some work to do. & I sincerely hope he gets there.
 

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Yeah, I was just talking about the standard b-ref ones like DWS & DBPM.

Their D-LEBRONS are both negative & similar, but yeah, Romeo slightly better.

My point never was that Romeo was a worse player than James Young or doesn't have an NBA future - just that for a variety of reasons his small sample-size stats are really awful, like James Young awful.

So he has some work to do. & I sincerely hope he gets there.
Yet somehow there have been people who saw a fairly significant leap in there (me being one). This year is going to be fun.
 

JM3

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Yet somehow there have been people who saw a fairly significant leap in there (me being one). This year is going to be fun.
Yeah, he eye tests like an actual NBA player, unlike Young. Now he just needs to prove that he is one.
 

radsoxfan

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I can't wait to root for Romeo, Grant, and Semi on "Ainge's Army" in the TBT tourney in a few years.
 

NomarsFool

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Guy who has added a pitch, guy who has simplified his repertoire both looking to be more dominant.
Guy who played winter ball, guy who has learned to listen his body looking refreshed,
etc

Hoops
adding range, focusing on getting to the paint,
3rd year player attending summer league to gain more on court chemistry with his teammates vs. player focusing on getting ready for the season.
 

nighthob

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Yeah if anyone wants to compare them offensively, go nuts. I think that it's unfair to Romeo due to his injury bug, but neither he nor Young showed anything offensively.

Anyone who watched both players and wants to compare them defensively is drunk. Def stats are still junk anyway, but small sample def stats are double and triple junk. I'm not convinced that James Young ever checked anyone. Romeo has had some games with more good defense than a lifetime of Young.
On the bright side Young finally turned into a twenty point scorer in the Israeli Premier League.
 

reggiecleveland

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That's eye opening. Last year he drove and tried finesse finishes, and seemed scared of shot blockers.
Often the explanation to underperformance is health and fitness.
 

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That's eye opening. Last year he drove and tried finesse finishes, and seemed scared of shot blockers.
Often the explanation to underperformance is health and fitness.
Not to continually discount SL performance but as a coach I know that you know there is a vast difference in ones confidence when attacking a rim protected by 6-5 Davon Reed and say the likes of AD, Giannis, Gobert or Noel. It’s been one of my criticisms of Romeo playing this summer in that what he’s doing out here isn’t resembling what his role would be once he gets an opportunity this winter.
 

Cesar Crespo

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Not to continually discount SL performance but as a coach I know that you know there is a vast difference in ones confidence when attacking a rim protected by 6-5 Davon Reed and say the likes of AD, Giannis, Gobert or Noel. It’s been one of my criticisms of Romeo playing this summer in that what he’s doing out here isn’t resembling what his role would be once he gets an opportunity this winter.
And when he's played anything that closely resembles his role in Boston, he's struggled.
 

HomeRunBaker

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And when he's played anything that closely resembles his role in Boston, he's struggled.
Correct.....as we’d expect a 21-yr old who missed camp and the start of the season to struggle. He also showed good growth in that role as the season progressed rather than being static like Grant and Semi.
 

Cesar Crespo

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This is what I mean about SL being silly for him. His role as a small ball 3/4......he’ll never play a minute of PG in Boston.
Not anymore, but going into the season many of us thought RL's path to a decent NBA career was by becoming a serviceable PG. As is, he's just a 3 and D without the 3.

Even BS said something of the sort.
 

reggiecleveland

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I don't think he was jumping that well as a Celtic. He didn't look that explosive.
But, I do agree that we can't get too excited about SL results and highlights. 1st round picks with a year or more on nba roster should be dominating the SL.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Not anymore, but going into the season many of us thought RL's path to a decent NBA career was by becoming a serviceable PG. As is, he's just a 3 and D without the 3.

Even BS said something of the sort.
I mean.....I don’t know what to say to anyone who saw PG skills in Romeo last year or projected him to be an option this year. I’m probably as high on Romeo as anyone here but it’s if he can develop into a dirty scrappy small ball 3/4 role player like a prime PJ Tucker.
 

Cesar Crespo

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I mean.....I don’t know what to say to anyone who saw PG skills in Romeo last year or projected him to be an option this year. I’m probably as high on Romeo as anyone here but it’s if he can develop into a dirty scrappy small ball 3/4 role player like a prime PJ Tucker.

If people see PJ Tucker when they look at RL, I guess I'm not as down on him as I thought.
 

HomeRunBaker

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If people see PJ Tucker when they look at RL, I guess I'm not as down on him as I thought.
That’s the role I foresee Romeo growing into as his ceiling to best use his length and athleticism. If some see him as a scorer or distributor I feel that would take away from his best attributes. Of course the difficult part is convincing a young player with their second contract coming up what their best role on a team would be.......when everyone around them is screaming in his ear that he needs to put up numbers to get paid.
 

Euclis20

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I mean.....I don’t know what to say to anyone who saw PG skills in Romeo last year or projected him to be an option this year. I’m probably as high on Romeo as anyone here but it’s if he can develop into a dirty scrappy small ball 3/4 role player like a prime PJ Tucker.
Yeah, I don't understand anyone who sees him as a playmaker for others. He hasn't shown any handle or vision, and at the moment there certainly isn't a need for it on the Celtics. Maybe there was a chance for a minute when Kemba was moved, but between Schroder, Smart, Richardson and Pritchard, there's no reason to try to cram him into the role. Not to mention Dunn, if he stays on the roster.
 

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Has Romeo even played the PG position at all in SL? Damn, I feel like he brought the ball up once, or made a few passes and people are like "Romeo is a PG now???????" PP, Yam and Edwards have been soaking up a ton of minutes in SL.
 

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He did last night. Stevens seemed to want him to learn and had him working with Evan Turner to try to reprise his role
Good stuff Brad. Maybe next we can experiment with Pritchard as a smallball 5 to stretch the floor offensively while “utilizing his leverage to defend on the low block.”
 

Jimbodandy

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Has Romeo even played the PG position at all in SL? Damn, I feel like he brought the ball up once, or made a few passes and people are like "Romeo is a PG now???????" PP, Yam and Edwards have been soaking up a ton of minutes in SL.
He has had a handful of possessions where he was clearly initiating the offense. It didn't go so well, and I'm a fan. His mind isn't tuned to dribble and set up for others, so he doesn't anticipate the guy cheating off to rip him from behind, like ever.

I see a 3 and D guy who has enough smooth to drive and finish closeouts. His 3 should come, and I will take the "based on what, fucko" hits until they do. I see a guy whose shot has improved, and he has nba athleticism and plus length. He needs development for sure, and if everything goes well for this team this year, he won't get enough on court. But he should keep at it imo. It's in there.
 

bakahump

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So are we seriously giving Brad and the Staff crap for "trying out Romeo at pg"?? Wow. I thought that's exactly the type of thing they should be doing. Does it mean they should start him at PG? Of course not, especially when we have at least 4 options better them him currently at that role. But developing a player and asking them to do something they are unfamiliar at in SUMMER LEAGUE, especially when they have played a total of maybe 1 year and practiced not much more is good management.
Am i saying he shouldnt also be taking 3s? And also honing his already decent defense? Of course not. But having him develop some better handles and at least have him looking to make some passes can do nothing but help him become a better player.

There may be a game or a play in some distant season where Romeo will have to be....like an honest to god Basketball player who can dribble almost 75 feet without getting pick pocketed and can make a pass to initiate the offense. Probably be nice for him to try it and get some experience at it.

Now I agree, the idea of forging him into a "full time" PG at this point is probably ridiculous. Born of our slight panic pre Dunn and Schroder.
 

Rustjive

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Outside of what the Celtics might see in practice, the big push to have Romeo try out playing PG and bringing the ball up has to do with some of his college Synergy stats, where his most common play types were in the pick and roll. I don't have access to Synergy myself, but here's something from the ol' search engine:

Playmaking
If the majority of Langford’s season was underwhelming, the overwhelming part was what he showed in the pick and roll. Per Synergy, it was the most common play type of the season for the freshman with 144 possessions, one of only two play types he had over 100 possession in. And he was elite in that category, finishing in the 90th percentile at 0.993 points per possession.

There’s many areas that make Langford so dangerous in the pick and roll. He was an elite finisher at the rim, hitting 63.6 percent of his shots at the rim, putting him in the 87th percentile on the year. As shown above, he has an ability to weave through traffic and finish around and even through contact. In general on pick and rolls, Langford was in the 96th percentile on taking the ball to the basket at an absurd 1.45 PPP.

He also has an ability to pass out of the pick and roll. Indiana didn’t have many great roll guys on screens and the highest IQ player they had and likely best roller, Juwan Morgan, wasn’t often used as a roll man (only 29 rolls to the basket on the year, per Synergy).

In the few instances the two did connect for a pick and roll, Langford showed some passing chops hitting the roll man whether it be on a roll or a slip. Langford had 39 passes to the roll man this year resulting in 1.077 PPP. In this play, Langford and Morgan both read the big hedging the screen early late in the game and Morgan is able to finish at the rim for a clutch basket.
https://www.crimsonquarry.com/2019/6/7/18654836/2019-nba-draft-profile-romeo-langford-indiana-university-hoosiers

However, anyone watching the SL game yesterday with Romeo bringing the ball up could see that it was obvious that he doesn't have the handle to perform such a role in the NBA right now. It just looks uncomfortable for him and he takes forever to bring the ball up and initiate the offense.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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He did last night. Stevens seemed to want him to learn and had him working with Evan Turner to try to reprise his role
I don't know if Brad thinks RL can be a PG but I'm certain that both he and Evan Turner want to see RL as a PnR ball handler because from the stats that Rustjive posts, RL was a great in the PnR, even with one hand.

That being said, I thought I'd see Romeo break people down off the dribble more in SL. Maybe he's still being too tentative. Will be interesting to see if he gets better at this at the SL goes on.
 

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So are we seriously giving Brad and the Staff crap for "trying out Romeo at pg"?? Wow. I thought that's exactly the type of thing they should be doing. Does it mean they should start him at PG? Of course not, especially when we have at least 4 options better them him currently at that role. But developing a player and asking them to do something they are unfamiliar at in SUMMER LEAGUE, especially when they have played a total of maybe 1 year and practiced not much more is good management.
Am i saying he shouldnt also be taking 3s? And also honing his already decent defense? Of course not. But having him develop some better handles and at least have him looking to make some passes can do nothing but help him become a better player.

There may be a game or a play in some distant season where Romeo will have to be....like an honest to god Basketball player who can dribble almost 75 feet without getting pick pocketed and can make a pass to initiate the offense. Probably be nice for him to try it and get some experience at it.

Now I agree, the idea of forging him into a "full time" PG at this point is probably ridiculous. Born of our slight panic pre Dunn and Schroder.
This is pretty much where I am.

If BB were asking a starting linebacker to work on long snapping, or asking the 2nd string 'anything' to work on special teams to increase value, increase depth, and just get on the field 6-8 more plays a season no one would blink. Stevens seeing a way for Romeo to get on the court a bit more by building his handle and working the PnR game seems exactly what we want the coach (at the time) and now GM to be doing - maximizing his assets. If all he does his gets a few more minutes (and maybe a couple of more highlights under his belt), then maybe he's increased his trade value?

I just don't see the hard criticism - and certainly not over a SL game. Again to make a football analogy, like complaining that the backup CB was asked to punt in an training camp scrimmage with the Eagles prior to the first pre-season game. Maybe someone can explain what is lost in asking him to work outside his comfort zone in a SL game - especially given that he's missed massive development time in his career thus far?
 

Fishy1

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My sense is that Romeo is great once he gets to the rim because he's so long and has such excellent touch. But the rudimentary handle that got him through college hasn't progressed due to all the injuries and lack of actual gametime, so he's stuck getting stripped by guys who will never see the NBA.

If he tightens up the handle and learns to evade pickpockets, he might yet still turn into a guy who's a threat in the pick and roll. But it's been ugly so far.
 

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My sense is that Romeo is great once he gets to the rim because he's so long and has such excellent touch. But the rudimentary handle that got him through college hasn't progressed due to all the injuries and lack of actual gametime, so he's stuck getting stripped by guys who will never see the NBA.

If he tightens up the handle and learns to evade pickpockets, he might yet still turn into a guy who's a threat in the pick and roll. But it's been ugly so far.
I wonder how many of the other Celtics, especially Tatum and Romeo, do any of the dribbling drills that Pritchard has practiced religiously for years.
 

chilidawg

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Outside of what the Celtics might see in practice, the big push to have Romeo try out playing PG and bringing the ball up has to do with some of his college Synergy stats, where his most common play types were in the pick and roll. I don't have access to Synergy myself, but here's something from the ol' search engine:



https://www.crimsonquarry.com/2019/6/7/18654836/2019-nba-draft-profile-romeo-langford-indiana-university-hoosiers

However, anyone watching the SL game yesterday with Romeo bringing the ball up could see that it was obvious that he doesn't have the handle to perform such a role in the NBA right now. It just looks uncomfortable for him and he takes forever to bring the ball up and initiate the offense.
Aren't bring the ball up full court and running the PnR related but different skillsets? Maybe he can be good at the latter without being good at bringing the ball up under full court pressure. I don't think either of the J's are particularly good bring the ball up under pressure either.
 

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I wonder how many of the other Celtics, especially Tatum and Romeo, do any of the dribbling drills that Pritchard has practiced religiously for years.
Tatum and Brown's workout videos are all over the internet. They work on everything with world class trainers on their own time. Not sure Romeo's routine honestly, but you won't find a lot of cats who outwork the Jays. That's why they leap in certain areas every year.
 

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Tatum and Brown's workout videos are all over the internet. They work on everything with world class trainers on their own time. Not sure Romeo's routine honestly, but you won't find a lot of cats who outwork the Jays. That's why they leap in certain areas every year.
No doubt both work hard on their games, but Tatum's handle could use some polishing. Jaylen's is better, but he's a little sloppy at times too.
 

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No doubt both work hard on their games, but Tatum's handle could use some polishing. Jaylen's is better, but he's a little sloppy at times too.
No doubt. Just pointing out that they both have worked on it and will continue to. These elite trainers pick a few things that are weak and focus on them every summer. I don't know for sure what was on the agenda for this offseason, but I'd be surprised if they don't make time for handle always.
 

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I have watched all the JT Pure Sweat videos online. The vast majority of the work is halfcourt stuff, where he catches the ball up top or on the wing.

He may be doing PP/point guard dribbling drills regularly, but the only video focusing purely on dribbling is over four years old.

I’ve seen JB doing two ball dribbling and cone dribble drills.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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I wonder how many of the other Celtics, especially Tatum and Romeo, do any of the dribbling drills that Pritchard has practiced religiously for years.
By all accounts, RL is a super hard worker and has worked on both his shot mechanics plus his handle. In fact, when he was recuperating from his wrist injury, he did a lot of left hand dribbling drills that help his ball-handling.

I think his handle is better than people describe it here but when he makes his move, he gets up too high and can get stripped. Hopefully he'll learn.
 

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Speaking of Langfords work ethic (which I dont have an opinion on), I was a little shocked to hear Scal talking shit about his "intensity".

Do we mark that up to Scal being pissy about having to skype with Abbie and guest of the Night during summer league? Or have others witnessed him taking some plays off.
 

DGreenwood

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Speaking of Langfords work ethic (which I dont have an opinion on), I was a little shocked to hear Scal talking shit about his "intensity".

Do we mark that up to Scal being pissy about having to skype with Abbie and guest of the Night during summer league? Or have others witnessed him taking some plays off.
I think Romeo has a laid back demeanor and some people take that as a negative (I don't, you can be laid back and work your ass off). I remember a game where CBS was yelling at Romeo during a time out and Romeo turned and walked away with a smirk when the timeout was over. Scal said something about it at the time. That's the only example I can think of.