Romeo Langford - Pick #14

NomarsFool

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Didn't see that coming. Are they looking to trade Jaylen Brown? Without that, it's hard to see how this guy ever gets any minutes.
 

Foxy42

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That shooting form video is horrifying. Also while I expected to see someone who is good at getting to the rim, he seems to have no left and is regularly shooting from a low release close to the paint bs elevating. Not encouraging.
 

Cellar-Door

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Did not like it at all, still don't. Fully expect to talk myself into him being a Harden-esque foul drawing machine and rebuilding his shot.
 

Sox Puppet

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This is shaping up to be like a Patriots' draft. Trade down and take players no one has rated at their chosen spot.
 

Eddie Jurak

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That shooting form video is horrifying. Also while I expected to see someone who is good at getting to the rim, he seems to have no left and is regularly shooting from a low release close to the paint bs elevating. Not encouraging.
Evidently he played last year with a torn ligament in his thumb. Hopefully that was part of the reason for the shooting woes.
 

ifmanis5

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KOC's Ringer profile: https://nbadraft.theringer.com/?view=deep#kevin

Natural scorer at the wing who must refine his decision-making and jumper for his effortless offensive talents to translate in the NBA.

Shades Of: Larry Hughes, Kentavious Caldwell-Pope, MarShon Brooks
PLUSES
  • Good physical profile with a wiry frame and long arms. He’s agile with or without the ball, and has a quick first step
  • Innate scoring instincts show in the way he moves, creates space using crossovers and stepbacks, and handles contact at the rim
  • Solid perimeter scorer off the dribble. He’s a confident shooter from anywhere on the floor who smoothly transitions from his dribble into his jumper
  • Flashes pick-and-roll playmaking skills; though he’s raw, creating for others off the dribble should be a developmental priority at the NBA level
  • Good rebounder for his position. He can turn defensive possessions into offense
  • Defensive upside due to his strong body and athleticism; he could be useful switching screens if he starts to try consistently.
MINUSES
  • Needs to overhaul his shot form or he’ll remain an inefficient shooter. His feet are never set the same and he releases an inaccurate ball due to unusual wrist flexion.
  • Currently uncomfortable off the ball: He struggles at spot-up shooting and he’s not an aware cutter.
  • He’s a ball stopper. Though he can complete basic passes to rollers or to shooters for kickout 3s, he has a bad habit of pausing before making a dribble move or picking up his dribble before passing.
  • Decision-making needs to improve: He dribbles into traffic too often, and though he drew a lot of fouls at Indiana, he’s a below-the-rim player who may not draw as many at the next level.
  • Spacey defender who falls asleep off the ball and makes slow reads even when he’s paying attention, both serious concerns for his long-term defensive upside.
 

Sprowl

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Copied over from the draft megathread:

Late to the party but Langford is a classic DA pick (BTW, I wonder if DA knows that his picks are typecast) - highly rated HS player who had a less-than-steller first year of college. If anyone wants to feel better about this pick, read this: http://www.basketballinsiders.com/an-insiders-look-at-romeo-langford/

Bottom line: top athlete; great work ethic; untapped potential. DA loves these guys. Let's hope he can refine his shooting mechanics.
 

samuelLsamson

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Lot of film here: https://cbbtoday.com/nba-draft/analyzing-the-enigmatic-romeo-langfords-nba-potential/.

Haven't had a chance to look at all of it yet.
So Ben Pfeifer in this piece mentions that Langford's "cutting instincts are sharp" but he has a "severe lack of first-step quickness". K O'C in the ringer piece linked above says Langford "has a quick first step" but "he’s not an aware cutter".

Can anyone who has watched him play a fair bit give us a steer on which is correct?
 

Philip Jeff Frye

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Didn't see that coming. Are they looking to trade Jaylen Brown? Without that, it's hard to see how this guy ever gets any minutes.
Isn't a 20 year old rookie picked half way through a bad draft likely to be playing Time Lord-like minutes his first year regardless of whether or not Jaylen is around?
 
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Jimbodandy

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Isn't a 20 year old rookie picked half way through a bad draft likely to be playing Time Lord-like minutes his first year regardless of whether or not Jaylen is around?
On next year's Celtics, he'll get more minutes than TL, but your overall point is correct. They're not clearing the roster of other wings for this guy.
 

Eddie Jurak

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Isn't a 20 year old rookie picked half way through a bad draft likely to be playing Time Lord-like minutes his first year regardless of whether or not Jaylen is around?
Time Lord like minutes is probably an underestimate, but it is unlikely the Celtics would expect him to start. I think regular role off bench is probably where he lands, depending on what other moves happen. If they keep Rozier he could be looking at Time Lord minutes, though.
 

Cellar-Door

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Time Lord like minutes is probably an underestimate, but it is unlikely the Celtics would expect him to start. I think regular role off bench is probably where he lands, depending on what other moves happen. If they keep Rozier he could be looking at Time Lord minutes, though.
Yeah, about half of the Celtics minutes played from last year are walking out the door. Now some of that will be replaced by FAs, but there is a lot of minutes up for grabs.
Even if you pull out the bigs, there are still a ton of G/F minutes leaving in the 2 PGs and Morris.
 

DannyDarwinism

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I posted these in the draft thread, but this is a better place:



Second one is video scouting report from last year, prior to the injury.

And a podcast form:

 

HomeRunBaker

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Romeo is the bastard love-child of Larry Hughes and Evan Turner. He's never going to be a star but he has a versatile skillset, plays emotionless, and is the ideal size for Brad's switching defenses Most 14th picks don't last more than 5 years in the league and few develop into reliable players even though GM's have historically viewed this area as prime role playing breeding ground......Romeo has a chance with his skillset to develop into one of the better ones even though the odds of success drafted here is stacked against him.
 

NomarsFool

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I'm a big Jaylen Brown fan, and really want him to be part of the Celtics' future. I look at Langford and I see a player that, if we're lucky, could be the next Jaylen Brown. So, it's hard for me to see why you make this pick unless you are thinking about either trading Brown or letting him walk as a RFA. Neither makes me very excited.

I would have been much more excited about Sekou (with 3 picks take a risk on someone with huge upside) or even Goga Bitadze (given our current big situation he could have played a role next season - seems more NBA ready than TimeLord).
 

Devizier

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I don’t know anything about this guy but he seems like an ath-a-lete who like most mid first rounders will do nothing in this league. Is that about right? I can’t fault Ainge for taking an upside play though.
 

lovegtm

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I don’t know anything about this guy but he seems like an ath-a-lete who like most mid first rounders will do nothing in this league. Is that about right? I can’t fault Ainge for taking an upside play though.
There are tons of question marks, but he's way more skilled than a random raw athlete type.
 

chilidawg

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I don’t know anything about this guy but he seems like an ath-a-lete who like most mid first rounders will do nothing in this league. Is that about right? I can’t fault Ainge for taking an upside play though.
The Stepien pieces linked above describe him as an average at best athlete, doesn't elevate much, decent lateral quickness. Good strength and touch inside, coupled with good size.
 

Captaincoop

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The Stepien pieces linked above describe him as an average at best athlete, doesn't elevate much, decent lateral quickness. Good strength and touch inside, coupled with good size.
Everyone I've read notes his lack of focus and tendency to disappear. So that's good for his chances.
 

bowiac

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I'm a big Jaylen Brown fan, and really want him to be part of the Celtics' future. I look at Langford and I see a player that, if we're lucky, could be the next Jaylen Brown. So, it's hard for me to see why you make this pick unless you are thinking about either trading Brown or letting him walk as a RFA. Neither makes me very excited.
I'm not a fan of the pick, and I think recruiting hype is almost entirely useless once a player has a year of college under their belt, but I wouldn't worry about what Langford means for Brown's future here. Wings are like starting pitchers in baseball. There's no such thing as too many. If Langford turns into Brown, that's a homerun, and not because it lets us get rid of Brown. A good team teams need a lot of guys who fill that role.
 

NomarsFool

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I'm not a fan of the pick, and I think recruiting hype is almost entirely useless once a player has a year of college under their belt, but I wouldn't worry about what Langford means for Brown's future here. Wings are like starting pitchers in baseball. There's no such thing as too many. If Langford turns into Brown, that's a homerun, and not because it lets us get rid of Brown. A good team teams need a lot of guys who fill that role.
I just don't think he gets a chance to turn into Brown while Brown is here. Many times there's a good argument to draft the best available player, regardless of team need, because even if you don't need them you can trade them for something valuable down the road. He'll play so little that a year from now, or even two years from now, I don't see him having any value. Just for the sake of argument, Brad may believe that Semi is awesome in practice and 90% the player that Jaylen Brown is, but no team is trading for Semi because of how little he plays.
 

Cellar-Door

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I just don't think he gets a chance to turn into Brown while Brown is here. Many times there's a good argument to draft the best available player, regardless of team need, because even if you don't need them you can trade them for something valuable down the road. He'll play so little that a year from now, or even two years from now, I don't see him having any value. Just for the sake of argument, Brad may believe that Semi is awesome in practice and 90% the player that Jaylen Brown is, but no team is trading for Semi because of how little he plays.
Curious why you think that, I mean, Morris played almost 2000 minutes last year, and we played 2 PGs quite a bit to get Kyrie off ball. Decent chance next year we play less 2 PG sets and there are going to be a lot of wing/swing minutes available to be split up. One of the biggest benefits of having a bunch of 6'6" - 6'8" guys is that vs. various matchups they can play all over the place in the 2/3/4 slots, there are going to be lots of minutes for Tatum/Brown/Hayward, and at least 1 more wing/swing guy is going to get decent minutes.
 

Captaincoop

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Curious why you think that, I mean, Morris played almost 2000 minutes last year, and we played 2 PGs quite a bit to get Kyrie off ball. Decent chance next year we play less 2 PG sets and there are going to be a lot of wing/swing minutes available to be split up. One of the biggest benefits of having a bunch of 6'6" - 6'8" guys is that vs. various matchups they can play all over the place in the 2/3/4 slots, there are going to be lots of minutes for Tatum/Brown/Hayward, and at least 1 more wing/swing guy is going to get decent minutes.
Morris was big and strong enough to play the 4 and defend guys who play the 4.

No one in the Brown/Romeo/Tatum/Hayward group can do that. If the plan is to play Tatum at the 4 a lot, they're going to retard Tatum's progress and lose a lot.
 

maufman

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Morris was big and strong enough to play the 4 and defend guys who play the 4.

No one in the Brown/Romeo/Tatum/Hayward group can do that. If the plan is to play Tatum at the 4 a lot, they're going to retard Tatum's progress and lose a lot.
Jaylen and Tatum can both play the 4 when the matchup is right. Not saying the C’s don’t need bigs, but they don’t need them to cover the full 96 minutes, and there will be plenty of wing minutes available for Romeo if he earns them.
 

Cellar-Door

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Morris was big and strong enough to play the 4 and defend guys who play the 4.

No one in the Brown/Romeo/Tatum/Hayward group can do that. If the plan is to play Tatum at the 4 a lot, they're going to retard Tatum's progress and lose a lot.
Hayward played most of his minutes without a PF on the floor. 4 of his 5 most common lineups were played with only 1 big (Horford or Theis) Honestly both he and Tatum can play 4 against most teams,, there aren't a lot of bruisers at the 4 anymore, and even fewer that teams are going to want to have out there with a guy like Hayward or Tatum who will cook him on the other end.

Edit- Milwaukee started Giannis or Middleton at the 4, Toronto had Siakam, PHI Tobias Harris, IND Thad Young, Brooklyn Kurucs, Orlando Gordon, Detroit Griffin. So of the East playoff teams, at most 2 are starting traditional low-post 4s. Hayward is similar size and strength with basically all those guys, even the 2 stronger guys, one of them in Griffin is someone that Utah used to have Hayward guard.

Big bodied 4s aren't starters in the NBA anymore for the most part, it's all 6'7" to 6'9" 220-245 guys who can stretch the floor and play off the bounce, so basically Hayward or Tatum.
 
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Captaincoop

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Hayward played most of his minutes without a PF on the floor. 4 of his 5 most common lineups were played with only 1 big (Horford or Theis) Honestly both he and Tatum can play 4 against most teams,, there aren't a lot of bruisers at the 4 anymore, and even fewer that teams are going to want to have out there with a guy like Hayward or Tatum who will cook him on the other end.

Edit- Milwaukee started Giannis or Middleton at the 4, Toronto had Siakam, PHI Tobias Harris, IND Thad Young, Brooklyn Kurucs, Orlando Gordon, Detroit Griffin. So of the East playoff teams, at most 2 are starting traditional low-post 4s. Hayward is similar size and strength with basically all those guys, even the 2 stronger guys, one of them in Griffin is someone that Utah used to have Hayward guard.

Big bodied 4s aren't starters in the NBA anymore for the most part, it's all 6'7" to 6'9" 220-245 guys who can stretch the floor and play off the bounce, so basically Hayward or Tatum.
I understand what the trend is. But there's a difference between playing Marcus Morris at the 4 (he never would have played there 15 yrs ago) and putting Tatum or Hayward there.

Of the guys you named above, all but Harris are both bigger and stronger than Hayward/Tatum. The Raptors not only rolled out Gasol at center, they had Ibaka and Kawhi who are also both bruisers. You can't expect to play the season with Tatum as your big forward.

We've covered this already. The Celtics tried it last year, and it was a disaster.
They can certainly put Tatum at the 4 again, and he's going to fail again.
 

Cellar-Door

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I understand what the trend is. But there's a difference between playing Marcus Morris at the 4 (he never would have played there 15 yrs ago) and putting Tatum or Hayward there.

The Celtics were awful with those guys on the floor without a 4. We've covered this already. They can certainly put Tatum at the 4 again, and he's going to fail again.
Except that they weren't, in fact the evidence is the exact opposite of that. If by we covered it you mean someone brought it up, it was thorougly debunked and we moved on.... yes it was covered.

In fact 3 of our 6 best lineups (min of 50 minutes) featured either Tatum or Hayward at the 4. So even if we buy that Morris was some major difference in terms of strength than the others(maybe true of Tatum, defintiely not true of Hayward) then half of our best lineups didn't feature a real 4. If as I think, you treat Morris as similar to Hayward then 5 of our 6 best lineups did not feature a real 4.

Edit- and on the flip side of the only 7 Celtics lineups (min of 50 minutes) that had a net rating below 10...... 6 of those 7 featured what you deemed a real 4, only 1 featured Hayward or Tatum at the 4.
 

Captaincoop

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I'll believe the Celtics are planning to play most of the season with Hayward and Tatum as the two forwards when I see it.

Langford was a typical Danny BPA swing for the fences, and also probably insurance for when/if they trade Brown. As it stands now, he has no path to real playing time.
 

HomeRunBaker

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I just don't think he gets a chance to turn into Brown while Brown is here. Many times there's a good argument to draft the best available player, regardless of team need, because even if you don't need them you can trade them for something valuable down the road. He'll play so little that a year from now, or even two years from now, I don't see him having any value. Just for the sake of argument, Brad may believe that Semi is awesome in practice and 90% the player that Jaylen Brown is, but no team is trading for Semi because of how little he plays.
Assuming that we will be rebuilding/retooling this season you are going to see Romeo Langford on the floor unless he's a complete bust in workouts, practice, or in the film room. His skillset was not a good fit for the college game yet even against zone defenses he was able to regularly get into the paint and to the line even with a busted thumb. With more open court space, especially in transition, this kid is going to be fun to watch grow. He's also a super strong rebounder with his 6-11 wingspan and good instincts.
 

ColonelMustard

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Only a few months ago Memphis beat writers were asking themselves if they should tank for Romeo.


From everything, I've read he seems like a solid dude and didn't let stardom get to his head. He works hard, has a plus plus skill in finishing, has prototypical build and strength. If he works on his shooting, weak-hand, and adds strength, he can be an all-star. He is what he is at this point - a lottery ticket. I believe we got good value for the spot we selected.
 

Imbricus

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Last season the Celtics showed they needed someone who could slash and finish effectively (apart from Kyrie). Too many guys jacking up midrange jumpers. I was originally down on the Langford pick, but if his ability to finish translates well to the NBA, that'll be pretty valuable.
 

benhogan

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If he can play some minutes at the point, that would make him more interesting. Some people seem to think he can.
I imagine with this kid being an Indiana legend and Brad's insider knowledge of Hoosier HS hoops, he'll have a good idea on what a healthy Romeo is capable of doing. Does Langford have the handle, vision, distribution and ball security skills? It's not a bad idea to try him at PG. I'd expect we'll see a fair amount of experimentation from Brad, with the Celtics resetting expectations. Hayward can play Point Forward with the offense running through him, so having a classic PG will not always be necessary.
 

Captaincoop

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I imagine with this kid being an Indiana legend and Brad's insider knowledge of Hoosier HS hoops, he'll have a good idea on what a healthy Romeo is capable of doing. Does Langford have the handle, vision, distribution and ball security skills? It's not a bad idea to try him at PG. I'd expect we'll see a fair amount of experimentation from Brad, with the Celtics resetting expectations. Hayward can play Point Forward with the offense running through him, so having a classic PG will not always be necessary.
Brad got a season of solid PG play out of Jordan Crawford, so you can't write it off.
 

Big John

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I would have taken Doumbouya. Higher risk, but higher potential reward. But if Langford was a Stevens fave, I'm ok with him. I was hoping that another Indiana kid, Windler, would slip to #33.
 

Big John

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To my eyes, I don't see his raw athleticism translate to the NBA. In his highlight reel he missed putbacks. He'll be stuck in developmental purgatory.
Yes, that's the risk with Doumbouya-- he turns out to be the next Jordan Mickey. But I would have taken the risk and stashed him for a year in Europe on a team where he'd get plenty of minutes. He's very young.

As for Langford, there are plenty of 6-6 guys in the NBA who are pretty good but who will never be all-stars-- KCP and RHJ come to mind, but there are plenty of others. As others have said, if Langford shows he can play the point he might become the next Dinwiddie and that's pretty good for a #14 pick. But Dinwiddie will probably not be all-star either (although if he becomes available following a Kyrie signing by the Nets, I would love to see the Celtics go after him).
 

chilidawg

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I would have taken Doumbouya. Higher risk, but higher potential reward. But if Langford was a Stevens fave, I'm ok with him. I was hoping that another Indiana kid, Windler, would slip to #33.
Guys I would have drafted ahead of Langford who were available: Doumboya, Okeke, Goga, Clarke, Kabengele, Bol, Porter. Odds are good Ainge is right and I'm wrong, but we'll see.
 

DrewDawg

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You're way out on a limb with Bol at #14 seeing how everyone passed on him, some teams twice.