Romeo Langford - Pick #14

Swedgin

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Yeah nobody closely following the team has a bigtime gripe with Grant this year.

Critiques of Romeo are more widely spread.

I've gotten to the point where I'd be very surprised if Romeo or Nesmith are legit rotation players in the next few years. Role players are nice though, and Romeo is definitely that (and maybe Nesmith is too).

Romeo has his moments. I get the wishcasting.
What is your distinction between Rotation players and Role Players?

FWIW, I like the framework Sam Vecenie uses: Solid Starter, Rotation Player, Fringe Rotation and Deep Bench.
 

Cellar-Door

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I'm higher on Romeo than many, in part because of games like last night. The hardest thing for young players is making a positive impact when your shot isn't falling. Langford did that yesterday. Hit the glass hard, defended really well, even letting them switch him onto LeBron to take pressure off of Tatum. Romeo has shown an improved shot this year, if that's for real I could easily see him having a long career as a rotation guy in the Green/Crowder mold. He has some upside to get to a hgher level than that if he can score off the bounce, but he's not there yet.
 

Jimbodandy

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What is your distinction between Rotation players and Role Players?

FWIW, I like the framework Sam Vecenie uses: Solid Starter, Rotation Player, Fringe Rotation and Deep Bench.
That's fine. To me, a rotation player doesn't get DNP-CD, except rest days. Role players don't always play, but often do. I guess that's "fringe rotation". Deep bench generally don't play.

Romeo is a role player right now, imo. He's playing regularly because Brown is out. He might become an everyday player on a good team, but I don't see a future where he's a starter. He does a few things well but nothing great, and his length is nice, but it's not like he's 6'8" with mad length.
 

NomarsFool

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End of this season is Romeo a RFA, or is he just extension eligible? We're only a little more than 1/4 through the season, but at this point it's looking tough to put a value on him. He is playing almost 20 minutes a night when he plays, and does add some value. But, certainly his counting stats are not much to brag about.
 

mcpickl

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End of this season is Romeo a RFA, or is he just extension eligible? We're only a little more than 1/4 through the season, but at this point it's looking tough to put a value on him. He is playing almost 20 minutes a night when he plays, and does add some value. But, certainly his counting stats are not much to brag about.
He's already signed for next year, Celtics picked up his option.

He's an RFA summer of 2023
 

bakahump

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What would you offer Romeo right now? He adds some value (as noted above) and has the potential to become a 4th or 5th or 6th guy with very good defense.

3 years 18? basically the Qualifying offer x3? Too little? Too Much? Probably his agent would be crazy to let him take it.
 

HomeRunBaker

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What would you offer Romeo right now? He adds some value (as noted above) and has the potential to become a 4th or 5th or 6th guy with very good defense.

3 years 18? basically the Qualifying offer x3? Too little? Too Much? Probably his agent would be crazy to let him take it.
Young players get paid off of their upside. 3/$18m is less than a regular veteran rotation player would make now so as a young FA I’d expect him to get $10-11m AAV.
 

benhogan

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Young players get paid off of their upside. 3/$18m is less than a regular veteran rotation player would make now so as a young FA I’d expect him to get $10-11m AAV.
RFA in a lowered/COVID cap era is tricky for players (as we saw with Lonzo/Collins/Markkanen).

Brad has tons of time to decide on Romeo (trending up IMO)
 

Euclis20

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The only noteworthy thing about Romeo's career so far is that he can't stay on the court (he's already played a career high in minutes this season, in just 22 games). Could have said the same thing about TL a year ago, so hopefully we'll get at least a glimpse of Romeo's upside this year before making that call.
 

HomeRunBaker

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The only noteworthy thing about Romeo's career so far is that he can't stay on the court (he's already played a career high in minutes this season, in just 22 games). Could have said the same thing about TL a year ago, so hopefully we'll get at least a glimpse of Romeo's upside this year before making that call.
I don’t have Romeo’s ceiling as being much higher than where he’s at now. I know some hate the role comparison but with more experience he can be that Posey or Tucker-like 3-and-D role player on a contender……he’s already that guy on what should be a winning team but still figuring out what he can and can’t do within his role. He’s never going to be a “numbers” guy.
 

NomarsFool

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Last summer RWIII signed an extension, so I assume Romeo is extension eligible next summer. Will be interesting how that plays out.
 

benhogan

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I don’t have Romeo’s ceiling as being much higher than where he’s at now. I know some hate the role comparison but with more experience he can be that Posey or Tucker-like 3-and-D role player on a contender……he’s already that guy on what should be a winning team but still figuring out what he can and can’t do within his role. He’s never going to be a “numbers” guy.
Romeo is way too passive to be a #s guy. BUT I do think he could double his scoring output by next season.

I'd also expect his scoring efficiency to improve with a continued bump in minutes
 

Sprowl

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I think that Romeo can show lots of improvement in his drives to the hoop after his three-pointer is closed out. Right now he shows plenty of swoop and reach, but the ball won't stay in the hoop (a bit like Jaylen Brown's layups in his rookie year). Creativity on close-in leaners has been one of his strengths in high school and college, and the skill should pay off eventually in the pros.
 

NomarsFool

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I missed it earlier this season, but it's interesting that the player that went #15 after Romeo, Sekou Doumbouya, is out of the league.

That draft (outside the top few picks) seems like it was quite the crapshoot. Kevin Porter Jr., Jordan Poole, Keldon Johnson who all went at the bottom of the first round, have turned into decent players (along with Thybulle and G Williams).
 

Cesar Crespo

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Romeo would be a great player if the game only used 1/2 the court. Never really seen anything like this.

(on mobile so can't post source)
That's.... problematic. Now I'm curious if teams are forcing him to the left. Also wonder if it has something to do with him doing shooting drills with one hand when he was injured.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Romeo would be a great player if the game only used 1/2 the court. Never really seen anything like this.

(on mobile so can't post source)
What does this chart show aside from Ime’s seemingly running action on the left side with Romeo positioned by design in the right corner?

Edit: I see the color now.
 
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wade boggs chicken dinner

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That's.... problematic. Now I'm curious if teams are forcing him to the left. Also wonder if it has something to do with him doing shooting drills with one hand when he was injured.
I don't defenses really think about Romeo. I don't think it had anything to do with the drills but he may have an issue with his mechanics. I'm also wondering if there might be a vision issue.

I mean all shooters have their hot and cold areas but I don't think I've ever seen anything so stark in contrast. (See, for instance, Al's shot chart that has hot and cold areas - can't copy the image but it's at this link: https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/h/horfoal01/shooting/2022).
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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What does this chart show aside from Ime’s seemingly running action on the left side with Romeo positioned by design in the right corner?
If I am reading the chart correctly (which I may not be - multi-tasking) - he shoots above-average from the right side of the court but waaay below average from the left side of the court.

I'm reading the orange dots as above average in FG% and the dark blue dots as way below average in FG%.

Am I misinterpreting?
 

Cesar Crespo

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If I am reading the chart correctly (which I may not be - multi-tasking) - he shoots above-average from the right side of the court but waaay below average from the left side of the court.

I'm reading the orange dots as above average in FG% and the dark blue dots as way below average in FG%.

Am I misinterpreting?
I read it as him being 3-8% better than league average from 3 point range on the right side of the court, 3-8% below league average in the top half of the paint, 9%+ below average from 3 point range on the left side and 9%+ below average on the bottom half of the paint.

You are probably right that teams aren't game planning for RL... if that is true, I hope someone is on Romeo's ear. Though I'm not sure how much good having a player stand beyond the 3 point line on only one side of the court will do.

He really is a shit offensive player. If that shot chart holds up, he'll become unplayable in the playoffs.
 

NomarsFool

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He really is a shit offensive player. If that shot chart holds up, he'll become unplayable in the playoffs.
The weird thing is, wasn't that supposed to be his strength - at least coming out of high school, and for the most part, heading into the draft? My recollection was that he was supposed to have high potential as a scorer - but with concerns about his jumpshot. The narrative was, if he could remake his jumpshot, he'd be a plus scorer.

Since that time, he seems like a plus defender, but a near zero on the court offensively (although his 3 pt shot has improved).
 

Cesar Crespo

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The weird thing is, wasn't that supposed to be his strength - at least coming out of high school, and for the most part, heading into the draft? My recollection was that he was supposed to have high potential as a scorer - but with concerns about his jumpshot. The narrative was, if he could remake his jumpshot, he'd be a plus scorer.

Since that time, he seems like a plus defender, but a near zero on the court offensively (although his 3 pt shot has improved).
Yeah, he was supposed to be able to get to the rim and be quick enough to drive by defenders. He was also supposed to draw contact and get to the line at a high rate. Good size and length. His weaknesses were 3 point shot, decision making, intensity and explosiveness.

If I were to hazard a guess, Romeo's strengths of getting to the rim and driving by defenders are severely hampered at the NBA level due to his lack of explosiveness. He has all of 12 dunk attempts in his NBA career. He's not an above the rim player at all.

If there's good news, he was made to play defense. Any type of effort on that end will lead to positive results. Not sure how much that will help if he's unplayable on offense.
 

Cellar-Door

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In college Romeo was incredibly aggressive and got to the line a LOT (.491 FTr) and made them pretty well (76%) his 2pt scoring was good (53%) and his 3pt scoring was bad (27%).

In the NBA his FTr has cratered (.221 career) after a decent start (.313 as a rookie which is good for an NBA guard, Jaylen was a .272 that year, Tatum at .255), his 2pt% is .453 (though he's at a career high .494 this year), and his FT% has bounced around but is at .694. His 3pt % is .283, with this year's 32% as a career high.

From watching him, the obvious thing is that he's basically got the role of 3 and D right now, and that isn't his offensive game. He should have the ball in his hands more with bench units and be encouraged to attack the basket and hunt fouls.
 

reggiecleveland

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That's not uncommon the footwork can be different from each side. It also gets in guys heads a bit. This is kid that was pick and roll guy who hasn't been quick enough to do that much in the NBA but his D is making him a 3 and D guy. At the pro level we scout this, since guys, like batters have hot spots. Some coahes will ask players to prioritize x-outs based on this info. I have seen pro guys uses the stats in their trash talk "What'd you expect? You shoot 18% from that corner!" I saw a guy make one after that comment and say "It 19 and climbing now!"

Also maybe he gets better looks from the right, too, based on what they are doing.

This actually makes me optimistic. I am on record tamping down Romeo enthusiasm, but he is becoming a decent rotation guy. He has been learnign to shoot at the NBA level, so good chance the left side gets better.
 

Cesar Crespo

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DNP-CD tonight. Granted it's only 1 game but not the best start to his Spurs career. If he doesn't get minutes in SA, where does he?

Richardson played 14.
 

BigSoxFan

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DNP-CD tonight. Granted it's only 1 game but not the best start to his Spurs career. If he doesn't get minutes in SA, where does he?

Richardson played 14.
SA has Vassell, McDermott, Walker, Richardson, and Primo. Romeo won’t be seeing much time unless there are some injuries. Another pivotal summer coming up.
 

radsoxfan

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DNP-CD tonight. Granted it's only 1 game but not the best start to his Spurs career. If he doesn't get minutes in SA, where does he?

Richardson played 14.
But I thought Pop demanded Romeo or the trade was off :)

It's actually his 3rd game with the Spurs, but he was "inactive" the first 2 for whatever reason. Hasn't played a minute yet.

Romeo needs to impress someone soon for sure, but he's almost done with year 3. This might just be who he is.
 

HomeRunBaker

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DNP-CD tonight. Granted it's only 1 game but not the best start to his Spurs career. If he doesn't get minutes in SA, where does he?

Richardson played 14.
This is probably the worst place for Romeo to get minutes with all the Spurs young wings already in their rotation.
 

Cesar Crespo

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But I thought Pop demanded Romeo or the trade was off :)

It's actually his 3rd game with the Spurs, but he was "inactive" the first 2 for whatever reason. Hasn't played a minute yet.

Romeo needs to impress someone soon for sure, but he's almost done with year 3. This might just be who he is.
Richardson was inactive those 2 as well. So, I'm assuming this was their first real chance to play.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Richardson was inactive those 2 as well. So, I'm assuming this was their first real chance to play.
I don’t think either was with the team the first game but both were at shoot around the morning of second game when the Spurs beat writer spoke to them afterward.
 
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Cellar-Door

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SAS is probably the worst possible place for him in some ways. They traded White in part because they are heavily invested in guards/wings. Plus they got Richardson in the deal, so they actually are even DEEPER than before at the spot Romeo plays. I wouldn't be surprised if they flip him in the summer.
 

HomeRunBaker

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SAS is probably the worst possible place for him in some ways. They traded White in part because they are heavily invested in guards/wings. Plus they got Richardson in the deal, so they actually are even DEEPER than before at the spot Romeo plays. I wouldn't be surprised if they flip him in the summer.
I would certainly expect J-Rich to get moved by draft night, maybe for an expiring deal and a contenders low #1