Romeo Langford - Pick #14

Cesar Crespo

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I think Langford would have difficulty sustaining full-court pressure on a smurf, but he would still be the Celtics' best option as primary defender guarding the 1 in a half-court game. I haven't seen a lot of Schröder on defense, but he's the only real alternative to Langford because Smart lacks the quickness and Pritchard lacks the strength.
I'd go Schroder/Langford but those are the 2 I'd be using as well.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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PG/ballhandler on-ball defense has been a weakness for a long time. If Romeo is the answer to that question we'll be thrilled.

Does he really have the defensive footwork to pick up PGs on the perimeter?
Check out RL's defense on Devonte' Graham in the clip below. Also, one of the things that I really want to see is RL guard Tyler Herro 1 on 1. I always thought Brad was going to put Romeo on Herro in the bubble until RL got injured.

View: https://youtu.be/mfmPOecrBJw?t=84
 

reggiecleveland

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On switches later in shot clocks he does which is crucial nowadays for all wings. I don’t think the OP was referring to pickup up 94 feet or defending an entire rotation as the 1.
You really can't do that at the pro level for more than a few possessions. Generally any time a coach moves up a level, "press way less" is a rule. Today's game is so much about what happens after a ballhandler gets in the key, because it is going to happen. How well do you find guys and stop getting beat off the close of giving up 3s? Romeo's size though not anything special is much better than Pritchard, Kemba etc. He has shown skill in this type of game on d. The knock on him has been sustaining his intensity at both tends, but so far he looks better.
 

benhogan

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I think Langford would have difficulty sustaining full-court pressure on a smurf, but he would still be the Celtics' best option as primary defender guarding the 1 in a half-court game. I haven't seen a lot of Schröder on defense, but he's the only real alternative to Langford because Smart lacks the quickness and Pritchard lacks the strength.
yea, full-court press isn't really a thing at the NBA level. I just want to see some on-ball pressure picked up at the logo. If a healthy Romeo can do that, as he did on Devonte (thanks WBCD), that will be very helpful/disruptive to the opponents' offensive flow (plus sets up Tatum/Brown/TL jumping passing lanes).

While Kemba was targeted in mismatches, which created all kinds of switching/rotation issues, his picking up on-ball D below the 3pt line was crippling to the entire unit. I expect we'll see an increase in the on-ball pressure at the top this season. If Romeo can be that player, he'll easily see 20mpg.
 

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You really can't do that at the pro level for more than a few possessions. Generally any time a coach moves up a level, "press way less" is a rule. Today's game is so much about what happens after a ballhandler gets in the key, because it is going to happen. How well do you find guys and stop getting beat off the close of giving up 3s? Romeo's size though not anything special is much better than Pritchard, Kemba etc. He has shown skill in this type of game on d. The knock on him has been sustaining his intensity at both tends, but so far he looks better.
Agree with this, but want to add that his size is aided by good wingspan too. He may only be 2-3" taller on paper than those guys, but he plays more like 6" taller.

Whether he has the wheels to stay in front of fast 1s is tbd.
 

Cesar Crespo

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Yeah, Romeo is a wingspan warrior.

6'11 wing span, 8'7 standing reach

Tatum is 6'11/8'10.5

Brown is 6'11.75/8'7

He's more similar to them than PP who is 6'4/8'0.5.
 

Jakarta

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yea, full-court press isn't really a thing at the NBA level. I just want to see some on-ball pressure picked up at the logo. If a healthy Romeo can do that, as he did on Devonte (thanks WBCD), that will be very helpful/disruptive to the opponents' offensive flow (plus sets up Tatum/Brown/TL jumping passing lanes).

While Kemba was targeted in mismatches, which created all kinds of switching/rotation issues, his picking up on-ball D below the 3pt line was crippling to the entire unit. I expect we'll see an increase in the on-ball pressure at the top this season. If Romeo can be that player, he'll easily see 20mpg.
Maybe not the right place for it, but your comment reminded me of something I’ve been thinking of. One of the things I was hoping we would see from Ime is a greater variety of defenses on picks. The switch everything defense (on and off ball) all the time seems to be the only thing we have seen this preseason, after seeing it almost all the time under Brad. I guess I’m wondering why that is? Is it easier for players, and over the course of the season they appreciate the energy it saves them. Is it too hard to communicate constantly changing ways you want to defend the pick and roll? It would seem that changing things up would prevent offenses from getting into too much of a rhythm, but maybe the downside of confusing your own defense isn’t worth it. With all the length and athleticism on the wings I was hoping to see more trapping, fighting over picks, hedging, etc.
 

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Maybe not the right place for it, but your comment reminded me of something I’ve been thinking of. One of the things I was hoping we would see from Ime is a greater variety of defenses on picks. The switch everything defense (on and off ball) all the time seems to be the only thing we have seen this preseason, after seeing it almost all the time under Brad. I guess I’m wondering why that is? Is it easier for players, and over the course of the season they appreciate the energy it saves them. Is it too hard to communicate constantly changing ways you want to defend the pick and roll? It would seem that changing things up would prevent offenses from getting into too much of a rhythm, but maybe the downside of confusing your own defense isn’t worth it. With all the length and athleticism on the wings I was hoping to see more trapping, fighting over picks, hedging, etc.
We may see a lot of that, only 4 pre-season games + lots of players out
 

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After Pace & Space, what comes next? Because it's not like the game is going to slow down.

Faster & Vaster?
Actually the Cavs are going to deal Garland, Okoro, and Love for Simmons at the deadline. They’ll finish with the #1 pick and then deal that for Ayton and roll out the Allen/Ayton/Markkanen front court with Simmons and Mobley at G. It will herald the Large & In Charge era.
 
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Eddie Jurak

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Maybe not the right place for it, but your comment reminded me of something I’ve been thinking of. One of the things I was hoping we would see from Ime is a greater variety of defenses on picks. The switch everything defense (on and off ball) all the time seems to be the only thing we have seen this preseason, after seeing it almost all the time under Brad. I guess I’m wondering why that is? Is it easier for players, and over the course of the season they appreciate the energy it saves them. Is it too hard to communicate constantly changing ways you want to defend the pick and roll? It would seem that changing things up would prevent offenses from getting into too much of a rhythm, but maybe the downside of confusing your own defense isn’t worth it. With all the length and athleticism on the wings I was hoping to see more trapping, fighting over picks, hedging, etc.
Under Ime the Celtics have been switching even more aggressively than they did under Brad. Brad never asked Kanter, for example, to switch everything. My guess is that switching everything is something Ime wanted to work on during preseason games. This team's strength, even more than last year's, iis having more players who can switch, but I doubt there is any plan to ask Kanter to do it in real games.
 

lovegtm

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...
I just threw out a number I was comfortable with. 200 sounded like a decent number, but he's probably not going to get 200 attempts this year so meh. If Romeo is 70/200 after starting his career 17/64, I'm going to guess there was a real improvement there even if he isn't a 35% 3 point shooter. Plus it would be incredibly hard for him not to improve from where he was. The question is how big is the improvement. Him going 9/15 from 3 in 4 pre season games is doing a lot of the work here.
This sounds about right. I also think we (Celtics fans) focus too much on 3-point proficiency as the be-all/end-all of a player's projection. Maybe Smart burned us, but in general, a lot of young guys can learn to be ~35% guys, and it's just about being able to do the other stuff well enough that they get the minutes/reps to be ok shooters in-game.

Romeo has potential in enough other things on offense and defense that he doesn't have to be much more than a "35% if he's kinda open" guy to be a rotation player. The flipside to this is someone like Semi, who became a decent 3-point shooter (teams guard him there, probably more than they do Romeo), but couldn't do anything else offensively and couldn't contest shots on D.

If you can play really good D and make plays off the dribble, you get significant playing time in the NBA, as long as your shot isn't completely broken. Even then, when it is really broken and you don't do much off the dribble, you still get paid and get rotation time if the D is there. Roberson is a good example of this.

tldr; my Romeo bullishness is mostly based on his projecting pretty cleanly to be an $9-14M player with a mediocre 3 and competent but not amazing attacks off the bounce. If he somehow improves that and is drilling 3s and putting pressure on the rim, that's a completely different player, and one who will make a lot of money.
 

Eddie Jurak

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The flipside to this is someone like Semi, who became a decent 3-point shooter (teams guard him there, probably more than they do Romeo), but couldn't do anything else offensively and couldn't contest shots on D.
I think it is hilarious that Semi is on the Bucks now. That signing is 100% a "keep Giannis happy" move.
 

Eddie Jurak

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less than $2 mil for Jesusemilore. You can do worse for an end of the roster spot.
I'm not saying he's a bad player. I think he's worth less than $2 million and delivers a kind of real value at that price. I just think that the only thing that sets him apart from 'fungible end of bench big' is that he's very well suited to guarding players like Giannis - athletic driving bigs who don't shoot that well. So, in today's NBA, you either bring him in to defend Giannis or you bring him in because Giannis is on your team.
 

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I'm not saying he's a bad player. I think he's worth less than $2 million and delivers a kind of real value at that price. I just think that the only thing that sets him apart from 'fungible end of bench big' is that he's very well suited to guarding players like Giannis - athletic driving bigs who don't shoot that well. So, in today's NBA, you either bring him in to defend Giannis or you bring him in because Giannis is on your team.
I'll never understand how a guy with his hops never bothers to fucking jump. He jumped over 40 at the combine with an 8'6" standing reach. Yet somehow he managed 13 blocks and 23 dunks in over 3700 regular season NBA minutes (254g). How the fuck is that possible?

If I had a 40 vert, I'd whip it out any time that I could.
 

Cesar Crespo

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I'll never understand how a guy with his hops never bothers to fucking jump. He jumped over 40 at the combine with an 8'6" standing reach. Yet somehow he managed 13 blocks and 23 dunks in over 3700 regular season NBA minutes (254g). How the fuck is that possible?

If I had a 40 vert, I'd whip it out any time that I could.
Because he can't jump quick?

Though I'm not sure if that works on 1st jump. It's definitely a 2nd and 3rd jump thing though.
 

lovegtm

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Yeah he's not twitchy for sure, but how does one not stumble into more blocks and dunks with those measurements.

It's like he made a conscious decision not to jump.
He really needs to load up and jump off two feet to get that elevation. Smart has a similar issue.

Exploding off one foot is not an evenly distributed ability.
 

Jimbodandy

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He really needs to load up and jump off two feet to get that elevation. Smart has a similar issue.

Exploding off one foot is not an evenly distributed ability.
I totally get what you both are saying, as a slow twitch guy myself. The numbers speak for themselves though. 8'6" and 40" if he has all day to prepare, check. That's 142" (2" short of 12 feet). Can't he get to 126" without needing a fluffer? That's leaving 16" in the tank.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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I totally get what you both are saying, as a slow twitch guy myself. The numbers speak for themselves though. 8'6" and 40" if he has all day to prepare, check. That's 142" (2" short of 12 feet). Can't he get to 126" without needing a fluffer? That's leaving 16" in the tank.
I'm guessing it's because (1) most blocks are from the weak side and Semi is not a great help defender, and (2) when he does try to help, he's focused on taking a charge, not swatting away a shot. I mean he's not going to block most people's shots 1 on 1 (because if he leaves his feet, he's probably picking up a foul).

The dunks aren't surprising since he doesn't seem to run the court that well and when he does, he's running to the corner.
 

Cesar Crespo

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He also doesn't move his arms that well, especially considering the foot work on the guy. He was a combine warrior but not much of a basketball player.
 

Eddie Jurak

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I'll never understand how a guy with his hops never bothers to fucking jump. He jumped over 40 at the combine with an 8'6" standing reach. Yet somehow he managed 13 blocks and 23 dunks in over 3700 regular season NBA minutes (254g). How the fuck is that possible?

If I had a 40 vert, I'd whip it out any time that I could.
Not jumping, though, is what gives him the limited value he does have. A Semi who jumps might be a better overall player, but he could not defend Giannis without fouling.
 

the moops

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He also doesn't move his arms that well, especially considering the foot work on the guy. He was a combine warrior but not much of a basketball player.
Even with his flaws, he is one of the what? Top 200 basketball players in the world? Top 500? Whatever that number is, he is most assuredly a very very good basketball player
 

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I'll never understand how a guy with his hops never bothers to fucking jump. He jumped over 40 at the combine with an 8'6" standing reach. Yet somehow he managed 13 blocks and 23 dunks in over 3700 regular season NBA minutes (254g). How the fuck is that possible?

If I had a 40 vert, I'd whip it out any time that I could.
Pat Connaughton, Brent Barry…….there is more to athleticism than jumping high. You have to be functionally athletic as it pertains to your skill set or being able to jump high isn’t very useful on its own. Actually, one of Semi’s greatest hindrances is that he plays the game very stiff. That is a recipe for disaster in this league.
 

Cesar Crespo

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Pat Connaughton, Brent Barry…….there is more to athleticism than jumping high. You have to be functionally athletic as it pertains to your skill set or being able to jump high isn’t very useful on its own. Actually, one of Semi’s greatest hindrances is that he plays the game very stiff. That is a recipe for disaster in this league.
I wonder if his build hurts him. It didn't help Kapler or Sierra but the NBA isn't MLB.
 

HomeRunBaker

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I wonder if his build hurts him. It didn't help Kapler or Sierra but the NBA isn't MLB.
He’s always been so mechanical like Dragan Bender was which is difficult for an NBA prospect to overcome. Even when he arrived at Duke prior to bulking up he wasn’t a very good player. He had one real good year on that great SMU team with Shake Milton and Sterling Brown. He physically overmatched nearly everyone in the AAC that year but also shot incredibly well from 3.
 

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I'll never understand how a guy with his hops never bothers to fucking jump. He jumped over 40 at the combine with an 8'6" standing reach. Yet somehow he managed 13 blocks and 23 dunks in over 3700 regular season NBA minutes (254g). How the fuck is that possible?
My guess is that Semi didn't quite master the timing early in his development and was coached to stay on his feet to avoid fouling or getting caught out of position. It's not like he was a shot blocker in college, either.
 

radsoxfan

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There may be cap/trade reasons to guarantee them all.

As far as on court value.... can't say I'd be too excited to pay 10M for the Romeo/Grant experience for another season.

I hope they prove me wrong this year.
 

HomeRunBaker

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I expect Brad to guarantee the four youngsters' 3rd or 4th years on their rookie-scale contracts. This must be decided by next Monday.

Any pushback?


https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2021/10/rookie-scale-option-decisions-due-next-monday.html
As others have noted the salaries will be picked up but you’d still have to convince me that writing a check to Nesmith on the 1st and 15th of every month is wise spending. If there is only guy to pass on in that group it would be the one who has played himself out of the rotstion each time he’s been given an opportunity the past two years.
 

Cesar Crespo

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There may be cap/trade reasons to guarantee them all.

As far as on court value.... can't say I'd be too excited to pay 10M for the Romeo/Grant experience for another season.

I hope they prove me wrong this year.
I thought I was the biggest Grant hater on the board but you have some weird Grant takes after his first 4 games. I can see being down on PP, RL and AN after 4 but not Grant.

He's not going to be a star and he'll look ugly and have bad games often, but you really have an issue with paying Grant 4.4 million next season? If that's all it takes, I'd sign him to a 4/20 extension right now if it were possible. If it doesn't work out, it's peanuts. If it does work out, he's a huge steal.

I'd be less excited to pay Romeo but even that's a nothing burger. Teams should never really worry about the salaries of players on rookie deals and they should hardly ever give up on a player before their rookie deals expire unless they've shown absolutely nothing (Carsen Edwards). But even then, they can easily be moved. Unless it's like Josh Jackson. Philly managed to move Fultz easily enough.
 

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As others have noted the salaries will be picked up but you’d still have to convince me that writing a check to Nesmith on the 1st and 15th of every month is wise spending. If there is only guy to pass on in that group it would be the one who has played himself out of the rotstion each time he’s been given an opportunity the past two years.
Don't let the facts get in the way of your dislike of Nesmith. He was firmly in the rotation at the end of the last season after being buried on the bench for the middle part:

https://www.proballers.com/basketball/player/191645/aaron-nesmith/games/2020

Then he averaged 14 mpg in the playoff series against BKN.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Don't let the facts get in the way of your dislike of Nesmith. He was firmly in the rotation at the end of the last season after being buried on the bench for the middle part:

https://www.proballers.com/basketball/player/191645/aaron-nesmith/games/2020

Then he averaged 14 mpg in the playoff series against BKN.
At the end of the season we were crippled by the injury bug. Romeo played 35 min in one playoff game bc we had no bodies. Romeo was given and then lost rotation minutes on a couple extended opportunities and he has already done the same after two games this year. The defense of this player on this board is astonishing considering how poorly he’s performed. I’d get it if he had sick athletic upside that he could grow into but he doesn’t even have that. I dunno, I never understood what people have seen in him. Oh well.
 

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At the end of the season we were crippled by the injury bug. Romeo played 35 min in one playoff game bc we had no bodies. Romeo was given and then lost rotation minutes on a couple extended opportunities and he has already done the same after two games this year. The defense of this player on this board is astonishing considering how poorly he’s performed. I’d get it if he had sick athletic upside that he could grow into but he doesn’t even have that. I dunno, I never understood what people have seen in him. Oh well.
This debate is ridiculous. The Nesmith fans on this board, myself included, readily acknowledge that he's looked awful this season and looked lost for significant stretches as a rookie. But he's also had a lot of promising moments, and the idea that he's somehow a finished product is ridiculous. Outside shooting has been never more valuable in the NBA, and that's been his strength as a player, his numbers this season notwithstanding.
 

Cesar Crespo

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This debate is ridiculous. The Nesmith fans on this board, myself included, readily acknowledge that he's looked awful this season and looked lost for significant stretches as a rookie. But he's also had a lot of promising moments, and the idea that he's somehow a finished product is ridiculous. Outside shooting has been never more valuable in the NBA, and that's been his strength as a player, his numbers this season notwithstanding.
It's pretty damning that he isn't getting that much playing time when healthy. He has shown flashes but pretty much everyone who has played in the NBA has shown promising moments, including Carsen Edwards and Tremont Waters. I'm not comparing AN to those 2, just that players have good stretches.

I like AN and think he'll figure out, and he'll get lots of time because of his shooting but it's fair to question AN's future. It's too soon to make any declarative statements but people were starting to question RL around the same time. They started to question Grant maybe 2 months later into his 2nd season. It's also clear he doesn't like him but he didn't call him a finished product. He said Nesmith didn't have sick athletic upside which is true.

I'd take AN over RL but having doubts and concerns about either one of them is totally legit. Do you think fans of other teams are pining for RL and AN? People on this board were actually making fun of Orlando for preferring RJ Hampton over Romeo Langford. At that point, neither had done much of anything. Then again, I'm guessing some people would still take RL over RJ Hampton. I'm with HRB when it comes to the prospect love. I think he's guilty of it too when it comes to RL though. I'm probably guilty of being overly harsh on every young player but most end up in obscurity after their 4 year rookie deal to never be talked about again.

This board has hyped up Abdul Nader, Jabari Bird, Ante Zizic and the like. Cheering for the young players to succeed is fun but most of them are going to fail.
 

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I thought I was the biggest Grant hater on the board but you have some weird Grant takes after his first 4 games. I can see being down on PP, RL and AN after 4 but not Grant.

He's not going to be a star and he'll look ugly and have bad games often, but you really have an issue with paying Grant 4.4 million next season? If that's all it takes, I'd sign him to a 4/20 extension right now if it were possible. If it doesn't work out, it's peanuts. If it does work out, he's a huge steal.

I'd be less excited to pay Romeo but even that's a nothing burger. Teams should never really worry about the salaries of players on rookie deals and they should hardly ever give up on a player before their rookie deals expire unless they've shown absolutely nothing (Carsen Edwards). But even then, they can easily be moved. Unless it's like Josh Jackson. Philly managed to move Fultz easily enough.
I'm glad Grant has had a good 4 game run, I hope it continues. I don't think anyone is significantly changing their opinion of a player after 4 games, good or bad.

I wouldn't want to pay the 2020-2021 Grant Williams 4.4M if that's what youre asking (aside from its value as salary ballast). Is that guy gone for good? Let's all hope so. Too early to know for sure.
 

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It's pretty damning that he isn't getting that much playing time when healthy. He has shown flashes but pretty much everyone who has played in the NBA has shown promising moments, including Carsen Edwards and Tremont Waters. I'm not comparing AN to those 2, just that players have good stretches.

I like AN and think he'll figure out, and he'll get lots of time because of his shooting but it's fair to question AN's future. It's too soon to make any declarative statements but people were starting to question RL around the same time. They started to question Grant maybe 2 months later into his 2nd season. It's also clear he doesn't like him but he didn't call him a finished product. He said Nesmith didn't have sick athletic upside which is true.

I'd take AN over RL but having doubts and concerns about either one of them is totally legit. Do you think fans of other teams are pining for RL and AN? People on this board were actually making fun of Orlando for preferring RJ Hampton over Romeo Langford. At that point, neither had done much of anything. Then again, I'm guessing some people would still take RL over RJ Hampton. I'm with HRB when it comes to the prospect love. I think he's guilty of it too when it comes to RL though. I'm probably guilty of being overly harsh on every young player but most end up in obscurity after their 4 year rookie deal to never be talked about again.

This board has hyped up Abdul Nader, Jabari Bird, Ante Zizic and the like. Cheering for the young players to succeed is fun but most of them are going to fail.
All valid points. And if Nesmith never shows the ability to hit 3s consistently, he's not going to last long in the NBA. But if his shot comes around--and, unlike Romeo, he arrived having had success from the perimeter--that alone should keep him in the league.
 

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This debate is ridiculous. The Nesmith fans on this board, myself included, readily acknowledge that he's looked awful this season and looked lost for significant stretches as a rookie. But he's also had a lot of promising moments, and the idea that he's somehow a finished product is ridiculous. Outside shooting has been never more valuable in the NBA, and that's been his strength as a player, his numbers this season notwithstanding.
That’s an area I disagree from the public assumption. 3-point specialists actually have LOST value in today’s game as there are so many more well-rounded players who have developed a 3-point shot to where you don’t need to lose in other areas to have a 3-point shooter on the floor.

I’m not sure if he’s a finished product or not. His ceiling was never super high to begin with and he keeps failing in his opportunities. I had some hope for him coming into the season to do something but it’s another step back in a career of taking steps back after showing something.
 

Cesar Crespo

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I'm glad Grant has had a good 4 game run, I hope it continues. I don't think anyone is significantly changing their opinion of a player after 4 games, good or bad.

I wouldn't want to pay the 2020-2021 Grant Williams 4.4M if that's what youre asking (aside from its value as salary ballast). Is that guy gone for good? Let's all hope so. Too early to know for sure.
It depends what he's shown in those 4 games. I'd agree if he was just making shots. My opinion has changed slightly after 4. I don't think he's a world beater, but he's worth his rookie deal and is fine in a 15-20 minute role on a team without Semi Ojeleye also playing 15-20 minutes a game. He's also slimmed down.


My opinion has changed drastically on Miles Bridges after just 4 games. Sometimes you don't need much more than 4 games. Maybe he reverts back to just being a good young player. I wouldn't be shocked, but I think the jump is real.
My opinion has changed drastically on Mo Bamba after just 4 games. If he reverts back to the same player he was last year, I'd be absolutely shocked.

I dunno. Maybe I'm crazy and am willing to change my mind too quickly. The only thing I'd worry about with Grant is weight being an issue. This version of Grant is going to get more than $4.4 million. If he stays this version of Grant and gets paid 4/60, maybe he mails it in and reverts back to 20/21 form. I don't think he stays this version of Grant and his 2nd contract will be closer to 4/32-4/40 (will still have the same mail in factor). If he doesn't get 32-40, it wont be his skill level holding him back. It'll be because he mailed it in for the cheeseburger.

There's always going to be that concern. He has that body type. On the plus side, he's put in the work twice to lose the weight and get shredded. On the downside, he's had to put in the work twice to lose the weight.

Slim Williams is worth 4/40+. Fat Williams settles for Kanter money or is playing in Europe. I don't need more than 4 games to know he's better than last year. I do need more than 4 games to know he'll continue to play at the current level. He can slip some and still be an acceptable rotation player and considerably better than last year.
 

Cesar Crespo

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Dec 22, 2002
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All valid points. And if Nesmith never shows the ability to hit 3s consistently, he's not going to last long in the NBA. But if his shot comes around--and, unlike Romeo, he arrived having had success from the perimeter--that alone should keep him in the league.
His shot already came around last year. I don't have much doubt he'll hit the 3 once he hits the court. He just needs some time to get adjusted on D. And apparently he has problems with being over excited. This was an issue last year too if I recall. The good news is he does try. His NBA career depends on him being a very good to elite shooter but it also depends on him getting his other skills up to a passable level. I liked some of what I saw in preseason and didn't like others.

I like to see year over year growth from players in at least one category if not more. And when I say year over year improvement, I mean in % stats. Not eyeball tests. It's far too early in the season to make such claims. If we are half way through the season and Nesmith hasn't shown any growth, I'll sour on him very fast, just like I did on RL. I used to be pretty high on RL and thought he'd turn into a poor man Jaylen Brown type. I try to give him the benefit of the doubt because the sample sizes are so small. I try, but I can't see more than a 9th or 10th man. I can see more with Nesmith, but it's starting to get hazy.

(not so) Fun stat, to date Romeo Langford has missed 96 out of a possible 148 regular season games in his career.
 

tbb345

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Apr 23, 2010
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His shot already came around last year. I don't have much doubt he'll hit the 3 once he hits the court. He just needs some time to get adjusted on D. And apparently he has problems with being over excited. This was an issue last year too if I recall. The good news is he does try. His NBA career depends on him being a very good to elite shooter but it also depends on him getting his other skills up to a passable level. I liked some of what I saw in preseason and didn't like others.

I like to see year over year growth from players in at least one category if not more. And when I say year over year improvement, I mean in % stats. Not eyeball tests. It's far too early in the season to make such claims. If we are half way through the season and Nesmith hasn't shown any growth, I'll sour on him very fast, just like I did on RL. I used to be pretty high on RL and thought he'd turn into a poor man Jaylen Brown type. I try to give him the benefit of the doubt because the sample sizes are so small. I try, but I can't see more than a 9th or 10th man. I can see more with Nesmith, but it's starting to get hazy.

(not so) Fun stat, to date Romeo Langford has missed 96 out of a possible 148 regular season games in his career.
That last sentence is absolutely crazy. I like Romeo and want him to succeed but you can’t count on him for anything and can’t budget him any sort of playing time because the guy is always hurt. It’s incredible
 

lovegtm

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Apr 30, 2013
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I thought I was the biggest Grant hater on the board but you have some weird Grant takes after his first 4 games. I can see being down on PP, RL and AN after 4 but not Grant.

He's not going to be a star and he'll look ugly and have bad games often, but you really have an issue with paying Grant 4.4 million next season? If that's all it takes, I'd sign him to a 4/20 extension right now if it were possible. If it doesn't work out, it's peanuts. If it does work out, he's a huge steal.

I'd be less excited to pay Romeo but even that's a nothing burger. Teams should never really worry about the salaries of players on rookie deals and they should hardly ever give up on a player before their rookie deals expire unless they've shown absolutely nothing (Carsen Edwards). But even then, they can easily be moved. Unless it's like Josh Jackson. Philly managed to move Fultz easily enough.
Yeah, Grant and Romeo are both getting picked up. Grant will be decent if he stays not-fat, and Romeo will be decent if he can be not-injured. Those are two pretty easy bets to take at this price, even if they're not sure things.

It's interesting (and not super-surprising) that both of them are clearly ahead in the rotation of the two young guys who most people liked better against weaker competition. Defense and fitting in a role go really far in becoming an NBA rotation player.
 

Eddie Jurak

Go Leafs Go
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Dec 12, 2002
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Yeah, Grant and Romeo are both getting picked up. Grant will be decent if he stays not-fat, and Romeo will be decent if he can be not-injured. Those are two pretty easy bets to take at this price, even if they're not sure things.

It's interesting (and not super-surprising) that both of them are clearly ahead in the rotation of the two young guys who most people liked better against weaker competition. Defense and fitting in a role go really far in becoming an NBA rotation player.
Things might change a bit if Richardson continues to assert himself the way he did on Saturday. Also, the 2 for 26 thing could be an argument for giving Pritchard or Nesmith (probably the former) a look tonight.
 

lovegtm

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Things might change a bit if Richardson continues to assert himself the way he did on Saturday. Also, the 2 for 26 thing could be an argument for giving Pritchard or Nesmith (probably the former) a look tonight.
Yeah, Richardson is going to take a lot of minutes from everyone if he plays well. Honestly, he looked better than Smart has in pretty much any game this year, playing the same small wing position.
 

benhogan

Granite Truther
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Nov 2, 2007
12,827
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This board has hyped up Abdul Nader, Jabari Bird, Ante Zizic and the like. Cheering for the young players to succeed is fun but most of them are going to fail.
My retort, not to you, but in general is some on this Board wanted to cut ties with Rob Williams after 2 injury-plagued seasons. They also had him as a distant, no minutes, 3rd stringer for parts of last season. We were 2 months into last season the same crew were saying Rob could never figure it out, played fast, and out of control.

IMO it's better to just stick with cheap/controlled rookie contracts at the end of the bench and spend minutes on them instead of retreads like Teague over a long/grueling NBA season.
 

Cesar Crespo

79
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Dec 22, 2002
17,763
IMO it's better to just stick with cheap/controlled rookie contracts at the end of the bench and spend minutes on them instead of retreads like Teague over a long/grueling NBA season.
Always. Most of them just aren't worth re-signing because they are retreads themselves. Most of them also don't become close to what we imagined them being or hoped they would be.