I was definitely expecting Pivetta to be the next man up. 30 pitches on Friday and then two off days. And honestly you really only needed 1.2 innings from him once Maldonado popped out. Assuming Martin/Jansen were availableBased only on pitches thrown in the past few days (and ignoring any possible injuries or illnesses we are unaware of), Winckowski, Martin, and Jansen clearly should have been available, and I think Pivetta may have been. And Llovera, obviously.
I wonder what Tampa is paying him. He might be too valuable as a pitching coach. I would love to get him to Boston somehow.Does Kyle Snyder's name ever surface as a Manager candidate anywhere?
Why is itt indefensible? None of the high leverage relievers were available tonight. Cora was playing the long game tonight. Once the game got out of hand; give up tonight's game and hopefully win the series. Calm down please.Putting Kyle Bearclaw in the game tonight is indefensible.
They need to completely clean house on the staff and upper management.
Outside of Llovera and the revolving last roster spot (and even that spot wasn't really that for awhile with Murphy) who does this describe in the current Sox bullpen?It's absolutely infuriating to watch a game kneecapped by throwing in a useless arm to buy outs, but so is having a bullpen that's about 3/4ths useless arms who you just hope can buy some outs.
Like who?How much of it is the pitchers not wanting to pitch versus Cora not wanting to use them?
19 actually: 11 hits, 5 BBs, 3 HBPs.Well it takes a lot of pitches to allow 15 baserunners.
Care to offer examples? If I'm reading you correctly, you are stating that Cora called down to the pen and guys literally refused to go into the game. I know we're all frustrated by recent developments; but that's a very serious charge. I would think and hope that any player in any sport who refuses to go play when asked would be released on the spot (assuming no injury). To just throw out accusations like that is not right.How much of it is the pitchers not wanting to pitch versus Cora and the pitching coach (and Bloom even) not wanting to use them?
Yeah, this is kind of where I'm at. It's not unusual to see guys take one for the team and absorb the pain to save the rest of the bullpen. But given the Sox had a lead in a game they desperately needed to win, did they really have NO better options?I thought last night while watching Bear Claw give up baserunner after baserunner that Cora (and/or the FO) decided to punt this one once Sale's start was crappy and have the new guy wear it to preserve the pen for future games.
That almost makes sense, until you think that there's no guarantee that the future results will be worth throwing your bullpen's best at. It was a close came when the 6th started. And I think Houston just got another baserunner off Bear Claw somehow this morning.
Cora said he was effective in AAA and threw strikes.Did I miss something? Cora blamed Bear Claw?
I mean, the talent level between AAA and the majors is immense.Cora said he was effective in AAA and threw strikes.
So like whose fault is it when he's called up and clearly cannot find the plate?
Watch the presser and form your own opinion. I didn't see Cora expressing much concern for BC.I mean, the talent level between AAA and the majors is immense.
Yeah, just from the game itself it was clear that Cora was gonna have BC wear it.Watch the presser and form your own opinion. I didn't see Cora expressing much concern for BC.
Yeah, if you're not yanking Barraclough before Altuve's at bat (and in slight defense of Barraclough, Duvall 100% misplayed that), it's difficult to argue for burning the pen after that. I know that the real death blow was Alvarez, but things happened so quick it probably didn't matter. If Winck wasn't up in time to face Altuve, they weren't getting him up in time to face Alvarez. After Alvarez, sacrificing Barraclough to preserve the rest of the pen was probably the prudent choice. Even if it was frustrating to watch from our perspective.Obviously, Plan A was: Barraclough is effective, gets you through the 7th inning, you use Winckowski and Martin to finish the game.
There was a Plan B available: They could have started warming Winckowski up to start the 6th with the idea of bringing him in if Barraclough got into trouble. But if you bring Winckowski in to finish the 6th, you've then got to get nine more outs from somewhere. So you'd have to stretch Winckowski to get through the 7th, likely meaning he can't pitch tomorrow, and then you have three unappealing options for the 8th: another inning from Winckowski (which likely rules him out the rest of the series), Llovera, or trying to get two innings from Martin (which rules him out at least for tomorrow).
Maybe you run that gauntlet if it gets you a win. But the idea of doing it when you're already behind is really unappealing, because blowing out the bullpen in a loss is the worst-case scenario. So once Altuve tripled, there was a pretty persuasive argument for letting Barraclough either get out of it or wear it.
Basically, they really, really needed Sale and Barraclough to get them through, or at least into, the 7th inning. They didn't. And thus the game was lost. The rest was just necessary ugliness.
But they weren't behind until Altuve's triple... which by then it was obvious that The Claw had no idea how to find the strike zone... Winckowski could have pitched to Altuve and Bregman and perhaps we strand two runners and enter the bottom of the 6th with a lead..Obviously, Plan A was: Barraclough is effective, gets you through the 7th inning, you use Winckowski and Martin to finish the game.
There was a Plan B available: They could have started warming Winckowski up to start the 6th with the idea of bringing him in if Barraclough got into trouble. But if you bring Winckowski in to finish the 6th, you've then got to get nine more outs from somewhere. So you'd have to stretch Winckowski to get through the 7th, likely meaning he can't pitch tomorrow, and then you have three unappealing options for the 8th: another inning from Winckowski (which likely rules him out the rest of the series), Llovera, or trying to get two innings from Martin (which rules him out at least for tomorrow).
Maybe you run that gauntlet if it gets you a win. But the idea of doing it when you're already behind is really unappealing, because blowing out the bullpen in a loss is the worst-case scenario. So once Altuve tripled, there was a pretty persuasive argument for letting Barraclough either get out of it or wear it.
Basically, they really, really needed Sale and Barraclough to get them through, or at least into, the 7th inning. They didn't. And thus the game was lost. The rest was just necessary ugliness.
The 9th was the only inning where Bear Claw didn't allow any runs. Maybe only because the Astros hitters were exhausted from teeing off on him all night, but still.I believe Cora said that he was prepared to have a position guy throw the 9th but BC insisted on taking one for the team, and that everyone was appreciative. He knew what his role was.
He needed the time to settle in.The 9th was the only inning where Bear Claw didn't allow any runs. Maybe only because the Astros hitters were exhausted from teeing off on him all night, but still.
He threw 1 2/3 innings on Saturday and really labored to get that final 2/3. I wouldn't be surprised if he was still feeling it yesterday and wasn't available.It’s not clear at all, to me at least, that Winckowski was available. Seems like he should have been, but when specifically asked about him, Cora indicated he trusted the medical staff / people.
Right, but if you wanted Winckowski to pitch to Altuve, you would have needed to have him warming at the start of the inning. And given that Barraclough had gotten out of the fifth, there was really no reason to jump to the conclusion that he was about to implode.But they weren't behind until Altuve's triple... which by then it was obvious that The Claw had no idea how to find the strike zone... Winckowski could have pitched to Altuve and Bregman and perhaps we strand two runners and enter the bottom of the 6th with a lead..
Edit: Or what Red(s)HawksFan said...
Eo is currently on the IL with forearm tightness and Wacha made one start between 6/19 and 8/15. They would have fit right in here!The signing of either Eo 11-3 or Wacha 10-2 or both would have helped this team immensely this year. They did neither.
Eovaldi has been on the IL since the middle of July and Wacha hasn't pitched more than 5 1/3 innings in a start in over two months. They may have helped earlier in the season, but not much now.The signing of either Eo 11-3 or Wacha 10-2 or both would have helped this team immensely this year. They did neither.
Ooooorrrrr. . .you work with your starters to go deeper into games. You work with your relief corps to cycle enough fresh arms to have actual options. You work with your GM to get fresh arms up and down from AAA (a la Murphy).Anyway, it's all to say what others have said probably more clearly. A bunch of 4-5 inning starts leads to you ripping through relief pitchers at an unsustainable rate, OR you punt games by cycling in Bearclaws and Dermodys just to get through the game.
This is going to turn into one of those bullshit memes that gets constantly recirculated here, isn't it?The signing of either Eo 11-3 or Wacha 10-2 or both would have helped this team immensely this year. They did neither.
Prioritizing strikeouts is direction coming from Cora?Ooooorrrrr. . .you work with your starters to go deeper into games. You work with your relief corps to cycle enough fresh arms to have actual options. You work with your GM to get fresh arms up and down from AAA (a la Murphy).
But you don't prioritize strikeouts and manage the pen like Mr. Magoo.
And how do you know that this isn’t going on? Maybe the pitchers that he’s getting just aren’t good enough.Ooooorrrrr. . .you work with your starters to go deeper into games. You work with your relief corps to cycle enough fresh arms to have actual options. You work with your GM to get fresh arms up and down from AAA (a la Murphy).
This is the bottom line. We want this team to be good now, but the bottom line is they just haven't had the personnel, or the personnel hasn't been healthy. Kluber, Whitlock, Houck and Sale all went down with injuries or were ineffective.And how do you know that this isn’t going on? Maybe the pitchers that he’s getting just aren’t good enough.
I feel like every thread in this forum can be summed up by saying “they need more good players”. Because that’s the issue, they don’t currently have enough MLB talent to be a playoff team.