Celtics Plan, Summer 2021

lovegtm

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It really just come down to this: GMs don't build championship teams any more. Players do. The Celtics need a third superstar and the only path to them getting him is for Tatum and Brown to convince him to force a trade to the Celtics for some flotsam and jetsam and a bunch of future first round picks.

Any other moves are just shuffling deck chairs around.
The 2011, 2014, 2015 and 2019 NBA champions all won titles without this happening (KL was available for basically anyone who wanted to outbid a DeRozan package). That's 4 of the past 10 titles.

If it weren't for Ray Allen's miracle 3 and Draymond's groin shot, we'd be talking 6 of the last 10.

I don't say this bluntly usually, but your post is dumb.
 

PedroKsBambino

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At a minimum, there is a path where Tatum and Brown move from ~top 15 and ~top 25-30 to top 5 and top 10-15. That is in-line with some recent championship teams top-level talent if you get the supporting cast right.

There is also a path where you add a third start.

There is, in theory even if not clear today how you'd get there, a path where you swap Brown for a top-5 star to pair wtih Tatum

Championship teams all have 2-3 top level talents, but get there different ways
 

DJnVa

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They’ll be a very good team if they have healthy years from Tatum, Brown, and Williams
I love Williams as much as the next guy, but there's a point where we have to wonder if he can be counted on to be part of the plan. He's so unique that it's hard to run the same kind of things on either end of the floor when he's not available. And he's not available a lot.
 

OurF'ingCity

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I love Williams as much as the next guy, but there's a point where we have to wonder if he can be counted on to be part of the plan. He's so unique that it's hard to run the same kind of things on either end of the floor when he's not available. And he's not available a lot.
Yeah, the good thing about TL's emergence is that I would be happy if he stays part of the team if that is what the new brain trust wants, but he's also increased his trade value such that I wouldn't be dismayed to see him go as part of a larger trade for a star or some other trade that significantly improves the Celtics in other ways. I could definitely see a scenario where the Celtics are turned off by his injury history but some other team is more willing to take a flyer on him.
 

benhogan

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I love Williams as much as the next guy, but there's a point where we have to wonder if he can be counted on to be part of the plan. He's so unique that it's hard to run the same kind of things on either end of the floor when he's not available. And he's not available a lot.
TL's injury history dampens his value. Danny should offer 3yrs +1yr team option. $25-36MM gtd for 3yrs. If I'm Rob (& his agent), I think about that long and hard. That's set for life money and he'd still have an opportunity to cash in the next time around. We could kick around different guarantee #'s but the general idea is to offer 3-4yr security to Rob. While not being tied to a crippling deal if he has a career-ending injury.

Otherwise, just head to RFA and sort out next summer.

Rob's talent is transformative, the Celtics want that talent optionality around the Jays. He was the only thing defensively that gave the Nets pause. The Celtics could manage his minutes/build towards the post-season/good match-ups in the future with a fully controlled TL. He should be in Danny's no-trade bucket with the Jays.
 

bosockboy

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TL's injury history dampens his value. Danny should offer 3yrs +1yr team option. $25-36MM gtd for 3yrs. If I'm Rob (& his agent), I think about that long and hard. That's set for life money and he'd still have an opportunity to cash in the next time around. We could kick around different guarantee #'s but the general idea is to offer 3-4yr security to Rob. While not being tied to a crippling deal if it worsens.

Otherwise, just head to RFA and sort out next summer.

Rob's talent is transformative, the Celtics want that talent optionality around the Jays. He was the only thing defensively that gave the Nets pause. The Celtics could manage his minutes/build towards the post-season/good match-ups in the future with a fully controlled TL. He is in my no-trade bucket with the Jays
Well Danny isn’t offering him anything.
 

DJnVa

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TL's injury history dampens his value. Danny should offer 3yrs +1yr team option. $25-36MM gtd for 3yrs. If I'm Rob (& his agent), I think about that long and hard. That's set for life money and he'd still have an opportunity to cash in the next time around. We could kick around different guarantee #'s but the general idea is to offer 3-4yr security to Rob. While not being tied to a crippling deal if he has a career-ending injury.

Otherwise, just head to RFA and sort out next summer.

Rob's talent is transformative, the Celtics want that talent optionality around the Jays. He was the only thing defensively that gave the Nets pause. The Celtics could manage his minutes/build towards the post-season/good match-ups in the future with a fully controlled TL. He should be in Danny's no-trade bucket with the Jays.

You keep mentioning Danny---are you not checking out other threads today? :)
 

Cesar Crespo

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I wonder how this changes things re player evaluation. I guess we will never know if Ainge and Stevens value the same things and had similar opinions on talent.

This is going to be a big summer, and the man in charge changed.
 

bsj

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For me, Kemba is the issue. Almost entirely.

Healthy Kemba can still be, I believe, a top ...25-30 or so NBA player.

Tatum as a top 10 player. JB as a top 20 player. Kemba top 30....that's a trio that, with a good well thought out bench, and a top half of the league C, can compete at a very high level. I think thats a team that, with a really good bench, could get back to being an ECF team. And one that could really push that series to the end.

But a diminished Kemba, at that salary, is an absolute disaster, and really boxes us in. IMO, our ceiling with a dimished Kemba is top 4 EC until we get some salary flexibility, and that's even with significant improvements to the bench.

Can Kemba get right?

Such a tough spot.
 

benhogan

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For me, Kemba is the issue. Almost entirely.

Healthy Kemba can still be, I believe, a top ...25-30 or so NBA player.

Tatum as a top 10 player. JB as a top 20 player. Kemba top 30....that's a trio that, with a good well thought out bench, and a top half of the league C, can compete at a very high level. I think thats a team that, with a really good bench, could get back to being an ECF team. And one that could really push that series to the end.

But a diminished Kemba, at that salary, is an absolute disaster, and really boxes us in. IMO, our ceiling with a dimished Kemba is top 4 EC until we get some salary flexibility, and that's even with significant improvements to the bench.

Can Kemba get right?

Such a tough spot.
"degenerative" knee, probably means he can't get back to being a top 30 player.

@radsoxfan has given good analysis on this over the year
 

Jeff Van GULLY

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Kemba's future notwithstanding, I believe Marcus Smart will not be on the team next year.

I hope the Celtics sign Robert Williams to an extension now, coming off injury and can get him cheaper than otherwise.
 

Cellar-Door

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Kemba's future notwithstanding, I believe Marcus Smart will not be on the team next year.

I hope the Celtics sign Robert Williams to an extension now, coming off injury and can get him cheaper than otherwise.
Currently listening to the Simmons/KOC/Jackie Mac/Rusillo podcast and they seemed to varying degrees to agree.
 

Jimbodandy

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"degenerative" knee, probably means he can't get back to being a top 30 player.

@radsoxfan has given good analysis on this over the year
Knees like that don't get better. He's had scopes, Synvisc, PRP/stem cells and still couldn't last the year despite being load managed like he was the fucking hope diamond.

I love the guy and wish that he were healthy. But people need to lose this romanticized version of KW that they have in their head. That guy is gone. What we saw this year is likely better than any year that he has left.
 

benhogan

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Knees like that don't get better. He's had scopes, Synvisc, PRP/stem cells and still couldn't last the year despite being load managed like he was the fucking hope diamond.

I love the guy and wish that he were healthy. But people need to lose this romanticized version of KW that they have in their head. That guy is gone. What we saw this year is likely better than any year that he has left.
ha ha, the Hope Diamond...very good

He had those last 7 regular-season games, w/out Jaylen, where he turned back into Kemba of old (28ppg). It was glorious, thoughts of assets returning danced through my head. Then the playoffs happened. *#@&*&^*

I imagine Brad & Co will hold onto bone bruise with their dear lives and say his bum knee had nothing to do with the Nets series.
 

bsj

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Knees like that don't get better. He's had scopes, Synvisc, PRP/stem cells and still couldn't last the year despite being load managed like he was the fucking hope diamond.

I love the guy and wish that he were healthy. But people need to lose this romanticized version of KW that they have in their head. That guy is gone. What we saw this year is likely better than any year that he has left.

as I said
...a diminished Kemba, at that salary, is an absolute disaster, and really boxes us in. IMO, our ceiling with a dimished Kemba is top 4 EC until we get some salary flexibility, and that's even with significant improvements to the bench.

so. I legit have no idea what the pathway is to becoming a legit title contender again
 

Jimbodandy

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as I said
...a diminished Kemba, at that salary, is an absolute disaster, and really boxes us in. IMO, our ceiling with a dimished Kemba is top 4 EC until we get some salary flexibility, and that's even with significant improvements to the bench.

so. I legit have no idea what the pathway is to becoming a legit title contender again
You go farther than I do, based on a diminished Kemba. We have two all stars, both still improving. We went to 3 of 4 conference finals before this year even without good Kemba. It's not hard to imagine a few moves getting them back into a conference finals even next year.

Legit title contender? That is a bit harder to imagine right now, definitely next year.
 

lexrageorge

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as I said
...a diminished Kemba, at that salary, is an absolute disaster, and really boxes us in. IMO, our ceiling with a dimished Kemba is top 4 EC until we get some salary flexibility, and that's even with significant improvements to the bench.

so. I legit have no idea what the pathway is to becoming a legit title contender again
People were saying the same about the 76'ers and Bucks last summer.

Tatum and Brown still have room for growth; Tatum could very well be a Top 5 player in the league in a couple of years time. They could be in position to get a premier free agent in a couple of years if they can keep the books set up they way they are now. A Kemba on an expiring contract (probably next offseason) could still be a tradeable asset just due to the value of expiring contracts in general (far worse have been traded).
 

Cellar-Door

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Is there any way the Celtics could get Chris Paul this summer?
View: https://twitter.com/basketballtalk/status/1400474789106622466
Maybe? Almost impossible but if he wanted to come here and PHX wanted to take back Kemba you could probably finesse it.

Most likely he re-signs there for 3 years.

Edit- okay, it's actually quite easy if he wanted to come here and PHX wanted to take back Walker, Kemba and Thompson alone probably gets you salary match or close to it for the likely first year of a Paul extension.
 
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Eddie Jurak

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In the NBA, anything is possible for star players once they hit a certain level.

Meaning that if Chris Paul has decided that his best shot at another title is to go to Boston where he can join and mentor the Js, then it will likely happen somehow. 'Somehow' being a sign and trade deal with Kemba going to Phoenix along with a pile of young players and picks.

I think the odds of this happening are only a tiny bit larger than the odds that Chris Paul is going to abandon basketball and try to sign a minor league contract to play baseball for the WooSox.
 

bakahump

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Well we will see if Marcus was GOOD or BAD in the Locker room.
I am sure we would have found out either way if Danny was still calling the shots. But now with Brad the Boss, you know he has all the good bad and ugly Smart info.
If he gets discussed in trades itwont be the end all be all, but it will be an indicator.
 

Lazy vs Crazy

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nighthob

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It's be really hard - they'd need to do a sign and trade and would end up hard capped. It almost certainly means not signing Fournier or getting anything back for him at least. And the Suns would need to take back Kemba's contract so the Celtics would probably need too table 2 or 3 first round picks to him.
Chris Paul isn't getting $44 million to be someone's regular season PG. He'll be cheaper than Kemba. Phoenix has approximately $81 million in 2022 payroll so they can, in theory, absorb Kemba outright. And, hey, they're already used to dealing with a part time PG. ;)
 

Cellar-Door

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I don’t think Kemba’s contract requires 2-3 picks, that seems steep to me.
In general yeah. The Suns it's an interesting question. If Paul leaves they actually have about $29M in cap space, so they probably wouldn't want to take Kemba to facilitate a trade, you'd really have to incentivize them.. would a first be enough..... maybe?
 

NomarsFool

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The NBA is a bit of a weird league in that large contracts actually have some value, depending on how much longer they are on the books. If they don't have an option to fill Paul's salary spot with someone else, filling it (at least temporarily), is not such a bad thing. I don't think they'd do it for free, but I think maybe a first gets it done - really hard for me to say. I mean, they also probably don't want to lose Paul for nothing. It's not a 1 for 1 comparison, of course, but the Celtics gave CHA two second rounders just to get a TPE rather than lose Hayward's slot for nothing.
 

Cellar-Door

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The NBA is a bit of a weird league in that large contracts actually have some value, depending on how much longer they are on the books. If they don't have an option to fill Paul's salary spot with someone else, filling it (at least temporarily), is not such a bad thing. I don't think they'd do it for free, but I think maybe a first gets it done - really hard for me to say. I mean, they also probably don't want to lose Paul for nothing. It's not a 1 for 1 comparison, of course, but the Celtics gave CHA two second rounders just to get a TPE rather than lose Hayward's slot for nothing.
Normally I'd agree, but I think without Paul they'd have 29M in cap space. I'd rather have $29M in cap space than Kemba's deal by a rather enormous margin.
 

lexrageorge

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Normally I'd agree, but I think without Paul they'd have 29M in cap space. I'd rather have $29M in cap space than Kemba's deal by a rather enormous margin.
If the Suns win one of their next 2 games, it would be interesting to see if and how their calculus changes.
 

Cesar Crespo

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Could Paul opt out and sign with the Suns at a cheaper amount, allowing them to get another player and go for a ring?
 

lexrageorge

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Could Paul opt out and sign with the Suns at a cheaper amount, allowing them to get another player and go for a ring?
If they renounced their free agents, they would be 15 million over the cap if Paul opted in. So it is possible they could get under the cap if Paul opted out and resigned at a lower base, but not enough to attract a free agent outright. But it would give them some room to do a sign-and-trade, or use MLE, etc.
 

Cellar-Door

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Could Paul opt out and sign with the Suns at a cheaper amount, allowing them to get another player and go for a ring?
Probably not. My guess is he's opting out with the intention of signing for less in year 1, but for multiple years.
 

PedroKsBambino

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Normally I'd agree, but I think without Paul they'd have 29M in cap space. I'd rather have $29M in cap space than Kemba's deal by a rather enormous margin.
Put a different way, would you rather overpay Lonzo Ball with some of that space or Kemba
 

Cesar Crespo

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It's not going to happen but CP3 player coach would be kinda cool to see. It could also possibly influence where he signs and for how much.
 

Devizier

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There is like zero chance the Suns trade Paul. As for opting out, the guy is basically the NBPA labor leader. He’s going to go for every dollar he’s entitled to, almost on principle alone.
 

Cellar-Door

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There is like zero chance the Suns trade Paul. As for opting out, the guy is basically the NBPA labor leader. He’s going to go for every dollar he’s entitled to, almost on principle alone.
Well I mean, if he opts out and wants to go somewhere they probably would be willing to consider trading him over losing him.. they just won't take back bad contracts to do it. which eliminates the Celtics from consideration.

Edit- they may let him walk if they have someone locked up, but I doubt Paul is option out in PHX to go to a team with cap space (Knicks, Thunder Spurs). Honestly I doubt he's going anywhere, but in the right situation they probably trade him.
 
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Eddie Jurak

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There is like zero chance the Suns trade Paul. As for opting out, the guy is basically the NBPA labor leader. He’s going to go for every dollar he’s entitled to, almost on principle alone.
Kind of hard to believe that at his age, the best route to money involves turning down $44MM guaranteed. But I suppose he would not have opted out if it weren't the case.
 

Devizier

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Ayton's future is one of several decisions the Suns are likely to make this offseason. Paul has a $44.4 million player option, which according to several sources, he intends to decline with hopes of inking a new multiyear deal (perhaps in the $100 million range over three seasons). It's unclear if his recent shoulder injury changes his plans. Gordon Hayward, who has battled more severe injuries than Paul, made a similar decision this past offseason, opting out of his final year with the Boston Celtics to sign a four-year, $120 million contract with the Charlotte Hornets.
View: https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2944098-nba-insiders-predict-huge-paydays-for-phoenix-suns-young-stars-cp3
 

jimv

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I think the only chance to move Kemba will be to another team with their own disappointing playoff exit. I include the Blazers in that category but can't see how KW would fit. Same deal for the Lakers. Maybe the Clippers? The possible 2nd round disappointments - Bucks? 76ers? Jazz? Nuggets? - might be better fits. Others here have more knowledge of league rosters though.......
 

Devizier

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I think the only chance to move Kemba will be to another team with their own disappointing playoff exit. I include the Blazers in that category but can't see how KW would fit. Same deal for the Lakers. Maybe the Clippers? The possible 2nd round disappointments - Bucks? 76ers? Jazz? Nuggets? - might be better fits. Others here have more knowledge of league rosters though.......
I could see the Lakers and Clippers possibly wanting Kemba as a third banana, but the return is going to be air (sign and trade?). I think that would be step one in a complete teardown. But it creates a lot more problems than it solves on its own.
 

cheech13

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Zach Lowe on his podcast threw out a CJ McCollum for Jaylen Brown trade idea for this summer. As a Blazers fan I think it’s interesting, but not sure what the temperature is with Boston fans. My gut says this board would hate it.