Celtics Plan, Summer 2021

Cellar-Door

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I would guess none of these guys ever play for us.
Mathews has the best chance since he is two-way eligible. The rest are camp bodies who may or may not end up in Maine.
 

128

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However the roster ultimately shakes out, the C's figure to have multiple legitimate NBA players on the bench, which will be a welcome change from recent years.
 

benhogan

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With COVID still taking athletes out, filling Maine roster spots with NBA vets (instead of kids) is the kind of detail we should appreciate

#SoxAugust
 

Cesar Crespo

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With COVID still taking athletes out, filling Maine roster spots with NBA vets (instead of kids) is the kind of detail we should appreciate

#SoxAugust
Why? It's not like the C's have first dibs on Maine players. I'm not sure these guys will even play in Maine if they don't make the C's.
 

benhogan

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Why? It's not like the C's have first dibs on Maine players. I'm not sure these guys will even play in Maine if they don't make the C's.
as I said it was a "detail". there are no guarantees here on either side.

If the C's get slammed by COVID I'd rather be familiar with a cast of ex-NBA players than the recent crap the C's have run out in Maine in recent seasons.

It's small, but I appreciate it, that's fine if you don't care

there is also the option they outplay Jabari in the preseason and get #15... or a trade happens that opens up roster spots/2-ways
 

Cesar Crespo

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I think there's already a 2 way open and the only guy who can get it is Mathews.

So it's possible both could make the team in some manner if Jabari is gone. I just don't think it's a given they end up in Maine if they aren't under C's control.
 

benhogan

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I think there's already a 2 way open and the only guy who can get it is Mathews.

So it's possible both could make the team in some manner if Jabari is gone. I just don't think it's a given they end up in Maine if they aren't under C's control.
I believe Kornet is also in the 2-way running?

Yep, it's definitely not given or gtd any of these players end up in Maine. We'll see what happens there
 

Cellar-Door

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I think there's already a 2 way open and the only guy who can get it is Mathews.

So it's possible both could make the team in some manner if Jabari is gone. I just don't think it's a given they end up in Maine if they aren't under C's control.
Up to 4 guys can be designated as "affiliate players" which means if they choose the G-League they go to Maine. So while they could go to Europe, or hypothetically another team's 15 man roster, the Celtics do have a better chance of getting them to Maine if they are Camp roster guys by using Affiliate player designation.

I believe Kornet is also in the 2-way running?

Yep, it's definitely not given or gtd any of these players end up in Maine. We'll see what happens there
Kornet has 4 years in the NBA, he isn't eligible for a two-way
 

Cesar Crespo

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I believe Kornet is also in the 2-way running?

Yep, it's definitely not given or gtd any of these players end up in Maine. We'll see what happens there
He has 4 years of NBA experience so he can't get a 2 way as far I know. I just learned the rule today in another thread re: Carsen Edwards.
 

Cellar-Door

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Can Kornet be an "affiliate player?"

Personally, I see him going overseas if he doesn't make the NBA.
As far as I know anybody can be an affiliate player so long as they are on the camp roster. Though Kornet isn't even signed to a camp deal yet, think he's checking out the league to see if a better spot opens up.
 

HomeRunBaker

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However the roster ultimately shakes out, the C's figure to have multiple legitimate NBA players on the bench, which will be a welcome change from recent years.
The problem is that so many of these guys being discussed…….are not NBA caliber players. Fernando, Archie, etc. I will say that one guy who could stick “somewhere” in this league is Mathews.
 

128

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The problem is that so many of these guys being discussed…….are not NBA caliber players. Fernando, Archie, etc. I will say that one guy who could stick “somewhere” in this league is Mathews.
Not sure Archie will even stick, but I'll take him over Carsen Edwards eight days a week.

Also, haven't you been one of the posters praising Brad the GM for putting together a respectable bench?
 

HomeRunBaker

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Not sure Archie will even stick, but I'll take him over Carsen Edwards eight days a week.

Also, haven't you been one of the posters praising Brad the GM for putting together a respectable bench?
Right but this isn’t our bench……these are guys who are here for a per diem as practice bodies until we don’t run regular full practices anymore leading up to the start of the regular season.

Archie over Carsen? Hmmm……do you want to drink the milk that is a week past it’s Exp Date or the one that is two weeks?
 

benhogan

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Right but this isn’t our bench……these are guys who are here for a per diem as practice bodies until we don’t run regular full practices anymore leading up to the start of the regular season.

Archie over Carsen? Hmmm……do you want to drink the milk that is a week past it’s Exp Date or the one that is two weeks?
Mathews will probably be on a 2-way. He's a clear upgrade from our 2-ways and Carsen from last season.

Won't win the Celtics any Championships but its wise to make small incremental improvements wherever you can (esp with COVID variants screwing up rosters)
 

JM3

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Archi is an NBA player - just not a particularly good one. Replacement level basically, which means he can play non-disastrously in an emergency. I think he's definitely better than Edwards & Waters for example. Of course, if you have to use him in non-emergency/mop up situations, your team has bigger problems.

& Bruno? Yeah, he was an unmitigated disaster last season, but I guess at least he was a young unmitigated disaster?

Mathews has put up outlierishly high ortgs both years (133, 130) that I'm not really sure what to make of as he doesn't seem to be a particularly useful basketball player & whose sole role appears to be to stand around & occasionally catch the ball & shoot the ball - last year he had an 11.5% usage, 3.1% assist rate & 3.5% turnover rate.

He's got a pretty quick release & can shoot on the move nicely, but doesn't really strike me as an actual basketball player. Could carve out a niche, though.

Haven't watched this yet, so hopefully it doesn't contradict me too much, but here's the Timi video:

View: https://youtu.be/LK4925yZHVA
 

HomeRunBaker

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Mathews will probably be on a 2-way. He's a clear upgrade from our 2-ways and Carsen from last season.

Won't win the Celtics any Championships but its wise to make small incremental improvements wherever you can (esp with COVID variants screwing up rosters)
Yes, I agree Mathews can have a future in the league. He’s a super he’s worker and can shoot……it took Eddie House 6 teams and a half dozen years to find his role. The others I’ve mentioned simply aren’t NBA caliber players and likely will be a distant memory from the league in the very near future.
 

JM3

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Side note: Heat paying Duncan Robinson 5/$90m seems crazy af.
 

JM3

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Side side note: I know we have a soft spot in our hearts for Eddie House, but is he really an aspirational comp for anyone? He actually had a fairly linear career with the exception of his age 30 season with Boston where he just shot out of his mind for the season (59.2% TS compared to 2nd best career season of 53.6%).

Side side PS: Archi's worst career TS season in his 4 years was 54.1%.

Side side PPS before you use the different eras argument:

For House's career the NBA TS% was 53.2% & House's career TS was 50.8%.

For Archi's career the NBA TS% has been 56.3% & Archi's career TS has been 57.0%.
 
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Jimbodandy

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Side side note: I know we have a soft spot in our hearts for Eddie House, but is he really an aspirational comp for anyone? He actually had a fairly linear career with the exception of his age 30 season with Boston where he just shot out of his mind for the season (59.2% TS compared to 2nd best career season of 53.6%).

Side side PS: Archi's worst career TS season in his 4 years was 54.1%.

Side side PPS before you use the different eras argument:

For House's career the NBA TS% was 53.2% & House's career TS was 50.8%.

For Archi's career the NBA TS% has been 56.3% & Archi's career TS has been 57.0%.
I know that we value TS as a gauge of a lot, as we should. But for a guy like Eddie, I don't really care as much about his TS as his raw 3PT and maybe EFG if you must.
 

benhogan

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Yes, I agree Mathews can have a future in the league. He’s a super he’s worker and can shoot……it took Eddie House 6 teams and a half dozen years to find his role. The others I’ve mentioned simply aren’t NBA caliber players and likely will be a distant memory from the league in the very near future.
if Mathews ends up on a 2-way after starting 24 games/playing over 1000 minutes for a playoff team, we can be nothing but pleased with PBS.

It's been a collection of clever/opportunistic moves (Chaim-esque)
 

JM3

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I know that we value TS as a gauge of a lot, as we should. But for a guy like Eddie, I don't really care as much about his TS as his raw 3PT and maybe EFG if you must.
How about this...in House's 11 year NBA career, he never played more than 19.8 mpg in a season. His career high in mpg was his age 25 season with the Clippers.

His career high ppg was in his age 27 season with Phoenix at 9.8.

His career high mpg in a playoff series was his rookie year in Miami when he averaged 21.1 & a career high 12.7 ppg (they got swept in 3 games by the Hornets).

I just don't think he's an example of someone who started off his career slow & needed to find his home or whatever.

But yeah, career 3p House 39.0%, Archi 37.3%.

Career efg House 49.0% (league avg during his career 48.8%), Archi 53.7% (league avg during his career 52.7%).
 

HomeRunBaker

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Side side note: I know we have a soft spot in our hearts for Eddie House, but is he really an aspirational comp for anyone?
Ummmmm, I’d say House would be an inspiration for not just any…..but for EVERY…..limited skilled role player to see a guy who has been through 7 organizations without yet finding his niche in the league on his way to $14m in career earnings. Few have persevered more in this league than Eddie House.
 
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Cellar-Door

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I think most of these guys are NBA players... they are just all 13th-15th men. Given they appear to be fighting it out for the 14th and 15 spot on the roster.... that's pretty decent.
I look at teams like the Bucks for example... the guys fighting for their last 2 spots aren't any better than what we're looking at
 

JM3

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Ummmmm, I’d say House would be an inspiration for not just any…..but for EVERY…..limited skilled role player who has been through 7 organizations without yet finding his niche in the league on his way to $14m in career earnings. Few have persevered more in this league than Eddie House.
But he had the same role everywhere he went & put up similar stats everywhere he went? The only real difference is that for 2 years he did his thing for us, & 1 of those 2 years was a huge outlier in terms of his shooting.

Also, there is a difference between inspiration & aspiration.
 

HomeRunBaker

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I think most of these guys are NBA players... they are just all 13th-15th men. Given they appear to be fighting it out for the 14th and 15 spot on the roster.... that's pretty decent.
I look at teams like the Bucks for example... the guys fighting for their last 2 spots aren't any better than what we're looking at
The thing is that we have 16 guaranteed contracts so these guys aren’t fighting for the 14th or 15th spots on our roster. They are training camp per diem guys hoping to catch on with some teams G-League team. Archie had his opportunity, showed that he can’t play in the league, and didn’t have an offer from a team with an open roster spot. Even Mathews, who I feel could someday take the House road to make an impact the league, wasn’t wanted even by a Wizards team who choose instead to leave open a 15th roster slot.
 

Cesar Crespo

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The thing is that we have 16 guaranteed contracts so these guys aren’t fighting for the 14th or 15th spots on our roster. They are training camp per diem guys hoping to catch on with some teams G-League team. Archie had his opportunity, showed that he can’t play in the league, and didn’t have an offer from a team with an open roster spot. Even Mathews, who I feel could someday take the House road to make an impact the league, wasn’t wanted even by a Wizards team who choose instead to leave open a 15th roster slot.

Minor detail, but isn't Jabari non guaranteed? So the 15th spot technically could be open.
 

Cellar-Door

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The thing is that we have 16 guaranteed contracts so these guys aren’t fighting for the 14th or 15th spots on our roster. They are training camp per diem guys hoping to catch on with some teams G-League team. Archie had his opportunity, showed that he can’t play in the league, and didn’t have an offer from a team with an open roster spot. Even Mathews, who I feel could someday take the House road to make an impact the league, wasn’t wanted even by a Wizards team who choose instead to leave open a 15th roster slot.
If you look upthread, Hollinger speculates one of the guards might make it over Fernando, and basically everyone thinks Jabari (unguaranteed deal) is on the chopping block if they decide to go in a different direction. I'd say there are 6 guys (Fernando, Parker, Arci, Mathews, Pinson, Kornet) fighting for 2 spots with the rest either going elsewhere (Europe, Asia, or maybe another team's 15) or getting affiliate tagged and going to Maine. I'd guess Fernando with guaranteed money and Parker have the inside track, but any 2 of those 6 could be 14/15 and it wouldn't surprise me much. Also.... we might make another trade that opens up a roster spot.
 

Gash Prex

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Well hopefully this gets fixed by opening day

Kanter’s current franchise, the Boston Celtics, had multiple players unvaccinated as of Thursday, he and a teammate say. The NBA claims that 90 percent of its more than 450 players — star veterans and players trying to make rosters alike — have received at least one shot, a rate lower than the conservative NFL.
https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-features/nba-anti-vaxxers-covid-1231988/amp/?__twitter_impression=true
 

JM3

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Shooting is a valuable skill.
In a vacuum, sure. He does not seem to be an elite enough shooter to overcome the other flaws in his game to be worth that type of $.

His 2nd season was good enough to maybe warrant that contract, but he dipped in the 3rd. A lot of it was dropping from 45% to 41% on 3s, but overall he wasn't really a positive player - except his on/off #s were still good (although not elite like the year before).

So it's a matter of whether you think he'll get back to that level & whether his offensive gravity is unique enough to warrant that contract.

But players like Bertans/McD also have gotten drastically overpaid by being 1 skill players.
 

Jimbodandy

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I agree that it is a gamble that might not pay off. But clearly shooting is a skill that will be compensated!
Yeah 5/90 isn't crazy money either. AAV of 18 would put him tied for #66 this upcoming year with Myles Turner and Bogdan. None of those three are great contracts, but they could all be moved too.
 

benhogan

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Spo needs players that can spread the floor when playing Bam and Butler.

Nobody in their right mind is playing off Duncan to help in the lane on those 2
 

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Spo needs players that can spread the floor when playing Bam and Butler.

Nobody in their right mind is playing off Duncan to help in the lane on those 2
Yeah, with that roster, I think it's money well-spent.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Yeah, with that roster, I think it's money well-spent.
Not to mention it isn’t money that can be spent elsewhere anyway as a team over the cap. Losing Duncan for nothing without being to replace his salary slot is the far worse option than paying him $18m per season.
 

TripleOT

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At least with Matthews, the Celtics now have a three point specialist who can actually make three pointers. Matthews has had 87% of his baskets assisted, and 94.7% of his threes. He’s not out there dribbling. At a minimum, he can help out in camp with getting the defense better at closing out on threes