Celtics Plan, Summer 2021

Cesar Crespo

79
SoSH Member
Dec 22, 2002
15,518
Zach Lowe on his podcast threw out a CJ McCollum for Jaylen Brown trade idea for this summer. As a Blazers fan I think it’s interesting, but not sure what the temperature is with Boston fans. My gut says this board would hate it.
I would hate that trade and it doesn't fit in with the timeline at all. McCollum is 5 years older than Brown, s coming off a fractured foot and signed for 3 more years. I'd pass. It almost sounds like Kemba all over again, except you are trading Brown for him.
 

Cellar-Door

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 1, 2006
21,364
Zach Lowe on his podcast threw out a CJ McCollum for Jaylen Brown trade idea for this summer. As a Blazers fan I think it’s interesting, but not sure what the temperature is with Boston fans. My gut says this board would hate it.
I would ask how many 1st the Blazers are sending and if that number is less than 3 I'm not interested. CJ is worse than Jaylen, paid more and much older.
 

Cellar-Door

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 1, 2006
21,364
So I just listened to the pod.... Zach Lowe DID NOT throw out McCollum for Jaylen. (I thought that was weird)
He threw out Jaylen Brown for..... DAMIAN LILLARD. Which makes a lot more sense. (Herring also had Jaylen/Dame as his potential Dame trade)
 

Fishy1

Member
SoSH Member
Nov 10, 2006
3,716
Yeah, and while we're at it, let's trade Tatum for Andrew Wiggins.

I mean, don't we already have the rights to pay discount McCollum with Fournier? In what universe would this team trade one of the best young stars in the league for a smaller guy who's never been a good defender and is about to turn 30?

Tatum and Brown are an incredible pairing. They can both score from anywhere on the court and play incredible man defense. Tatum shows signs of growing into an elite playmaker. Brown has room to grow in that department as well.

You don't need to fuck with this roster. You might make certain moves to increase the chances of competing next year, but you do not touch Jayson or Tatum.
 

nighthob

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
10,200
Zach Lowe on his podcast threw out a CJ McCollum for Jaylen Brown trade idea for this summer. As a Blazers fan I think it’s interesting, but not sure what the temperature is with Boston fans. My gut says this board would hate it.
What else are the Blazers including in the deal? Because as a straight up swap that doesn’t work at all given that CJ is entering his age 30 season and is barely 6’3”.
 

Lazy vs Crazy

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 18, 2005
4,251
Zach Lowe on his podcast threw out a CJ McCollum for Jaylen Brown trade idea for this summer. As a Blazers fan I think it’s interesting, but not sure what the temperature is with Boston fans. My gut says this board would hate it.
Jaylen is younger, bigger, makes less money, and is marginally more efficient. There's no way it makes any sense.

Edit: as for Dame, I don't look forward to paying him 54 million dollars in 2024-2025 at 34 years old. I'm a no on that as well.
 

cheech13

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 5, 2006
1,356
So I just listened to the pod.... Zach Lowe DID NOT throw out McCollum for Jaylen. (I thought that was weird)
He threw out Jaylen Brown for..... DAMIAN LILLARD. Which makes a lot more sense. (Herring also had Jaylen/Dame as his potential Dame trade)
You’re absolutely right. Huge miss by me. Just went back and listened again and he does say Dame, and I guess I missed that because it was interspersed with CJ talk.

Portland wouldn’t do that, by the way. Not unless Dane demands it and Boston adds some other assets.
 
Last edited:

luckiestman

Son of the Harpy
Silver Supporter
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
20,797
This board didn’t want to trade JB for Booker so I was really looking forward to the reaction for a CJ/Brown swap, lol. Too bad the correction came so quick.
 

Devizier

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 3, 2000
14,486
Somewhere
Zach Lowe on his podcast threw out a CJ McCollum for Jaylen Brown trade idea for this summer. As a Blazers fan I think it’s interesting, but not sure what the temperature is with Boston fans. My gut says this board would hate it.
That would be countered with an equally plausible Kemba for McCollum trade.
 

Fishy1

Member
SoSH Member
Nov 10, 2006
3,716
You’re absolutely right. Just went back and listened again and he does say Dame, and I guess I missed that because it was interspersed with CJ talk.

Portland wouldn’t do that, by the way.
Right, and I don't think the Celtics should either, unless they want to be paying two aging point guards sixty million dollars for the next two to five years - Tatum's prime. Lillard is a generational scorer, but he's also 30, and tied up for four more years.

He's been durable up till now, but then, so was Kemba, and Dame's mileage is even worse than Kemba's was. The fact is that by 32 or 33 most players, but especially small guards, tend to have begun to decline in at least one or two facets of their game and they stop being great. Defense or durability is usually the first thing to go. Dame's never been a good defender, and averaged less than steal a game this year. Then the efficiency and volume declines, and then you've got a guy who you're paying fifty million dollars to score eighteen points a game half the year and play turnstile defense. Meanwhile, Jaylen might be scoring thirty with four or five assists and taken a leap at the free throw line, etc. Hell, in three years, Marcus Smart might be better overall value than Dame. I know that sounds crazy, but it's not.

I'd rather the Celtics see if they can get out from under Kemba's contract, or failing that, hope Smart makes a leap like Lowry did at 27, or Billups or Rozier or Conley did at 26, or that Kemba has one more healthy season, or even that Pritchard keeps his efficiency up under the weight of 10-13 shots a game. Better that than ship out Jaylen for a great guard who might only offer you a year or two of great production, marginally improving your offense and making your defense worse.

I've been really hard on Smart, given his efficiency, but he's still young and has shown signs of breaking out - a career high in assists, increased efficiency around the rim, and career highs in 3 point shooting and 2 pt shooting in the last three years. If he breaks out and can go for even 15 points and six assists for a few years, then you have a very nice complementary guard to the Jay's. I know the popular opinion is that Smart is going to get worse over the next few years, but I think the history of combo guards who are tough on defense and struggle with their scoring is that they often breakout late. I mean, if Marcus would just cut down on his heavy diet of threes from above the hashmark, he'd be in better shape. (He took sixty of those this year, 20% of his three pointers.... and made eleven of them).

I think the Celtics will find a buyer for Kemba - someone like the the Knicks, who've tasted enough victory that Dolan might get desperate and demand a move to upgrade from D Rose. I can see teams squinting at Kemba and taking the risk: it wasn't the knee that brought him down in the playoffs but a bone bruise, still scored 19 a game, still as efficient as ever, etc. (such squinting ignores the decline in volume and durability, which are huge warning signs).

That would be countered with an equally plausible Kemba for McCollum trade.
Exactly.
 

JakeRae

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 21, 2005
6,808
New York, NY
Jaylen for either Lillard or CJ doesn’t really make sense for either team in a vacuum, and it’s hard to see how you’d reasonably bridge that gap if you’re thinking about just those guys as primary pieces.

If I were trying to construct a blockbuster between these two teams, I think the most logical starting point is Kemba+Jaylen for Lillard+Covington. The structure avoids roster construction problems for both teams and works under the cap. We’d get the best player and the Blazers could kick start a retool with a young star while retaining enough talent to compete.

I should caveat the above with the fact that I don’t think Lillard is going anywhere. I also am not sure I love this trade because of Jaylen’s trajectory so far as a player. But I do think that if we’re thinking win now and Lillard is available, this is a framework that I think could work for everyone. (The Celtics would probably have to add a pick or two to fully balance this, but the value gap isn’t that big and the upside is pretty much all on their side already.)
 

Cesar Crespo

79
SoSH Member
Dec 22, 2002
15,518
The only Jaylen deal that makes any kind of sense is for Beal. You can come up with other deals that sort of make sense but ultimately, they don't leave you very excited (Kemba and Brown for Ingram and Ball).

If KAT forces a trade, maybe for Jaylen. Although I'm sure some posters wouldn't trade Jaylen for Brown either, so maybe KAT wouldn't have to demand a trade.

Sabonis is a possibility if you think Brown/Tatum don't work for whatever reason.

Zach LaVine.


Just keep Jaylen Brown.
 

BigSoxFan

Member
SoSH Member
May 31, 2007
38,676
The only Jaylen deal that makes any kind of sense is for Beal. You can come up with other deals that sort of make sense but ultimately, they don't leave you very excited (Kemba and Brown for Ingram and Ball).

If KAT forces a trade, maybe for Jaylen. Although I'm sure some posters wouldn't trade Jaylen for Brown either, so maybe KAT wouldn't have to demand a trade.

Sabonis is a possibility if you think Brown/Tatum don't work for whatever reason.

Zach LaVine.


Just keep Jaylen Brown.
Yeah, and I don’t think Brown for Beal even makes sense either. Brown shoots better, is younger, signed longer, capable of playing better defense, etc.

I only trade Jaylen if he forces the issue or if Tatum wants a break up, which feels unlikely at this point.
 

Cesar Crespo

79
SoSH Member
Dec 22, 2002
15,518
Yeah, and I don’t think Brown for Beal even makes sense either. Brown shoots better, is younger, signed longer, capable of playing better defense, etc.

I only trade Jaylen if he forces the issue or if Tatum wants a break up, which feels unlikely at this point.
The hope with Beal is he'd shoot a lot better if he weren't required to score 30 plus a night. Defense is a concern though.

I wouldn't trade him for Beal. The worst case scenario for the C's is having Tatum and Brown locked up after the 22/23 season with options on PP and Nesmith and $57 mil below the cap, 82 below the luxury. The team should build with that it mind rather than break up Tatum/Brown. Try to improve the roster but don't mortgage the future for the next 2 seasons.
 

lovegtm

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 30, 2013
8,238
Kiev, Ukraine
The only Jaylen deal that makes any kind of sense is for Beal. You can come up with other deals that sort of make sense but ultimately, they don't leave you very excited (Kemba and Brown for Ingram and Ball).

If KAT forces a trade, maybe for Jaylen. Although I'm sure some posters wouldn't trade Jaylen for Brown either, so maybe KAT wouldn't have to demand a trade.

Sabonis is a possibility if you think Brown/Tatum don't work for whatever reason.

Zach LaVine.


Just keep Jaylen Brown.
Right, the problem with most of the Brown deals is that you lose his talent+upside in all of them, so it's harder to do better than a minor upgrade.

If the Celtics want to move the talent needle in a trade, an All The Picks type deal gets you a lot further than any Jaylen one.
 

dhellers

Member
SoSH Member
Oct 31, 2005
2,502
Silver Spring, Maryland
Danny Ainge had remarkable success building teams with the potential to win it all. While pursuing big names when feasible
(such as Durant and Davis), the core strategy was building a crew of 5 or so players with very good to all star caliber talent.
When fully healthy, such a crew can challenge any other team .

The gothca: "when fully healthy". It never happened. And when one of a "crew of 5" is out, the team can still be good,
but not a real challenger (the total being greater than the sum of the parts).

Alas, this is not suprising. The probability of someone out of 5 being hurt is a lot bigger than someone out of a "big 2" strategy!
For example, with a 20% chance of season ending injury, the odds of everyone of 5 staying healthy (1- 0.8^5) is 32%; while with 2 players it is 64%.

Consider 3 broad approaches to moving forward: try again, rebuild, and recuperate.
* A try again strategy decides that 2021 was a flukey bad year, especially in terms of player health. Next year is bound to be better!
* A rebuild strategy decides that 2021 was real. Big changes are needed to avoid the same mediocre fate.
* A recuperate strategy decides that 2021 was real, but a planned retry has great potential.

The try again strategy seems foolish. What are the odds of Kemba attaining a consistent 90% of his ceiling?
Can TL stay on the court if used the same way? Will the mix of good vs. bad Marcus improve? And do you want to rush Jaylen's recovery?

A rebuild strategy seems like a long shot. Who is taking Kemba, without returning an equivalent problem?
And a harsher approach (such as breaking up the Jays) seems reactionary.
Do you really want to give up on a core - one that was always missing key players -- that went to game 6 of the 2021 ECF, and game 7 in 2018
(where even a healthy Shane Larkin or Daniel Theis probably gets them to the finals and a puncher's chance against the GSW juggernaut).

So consider a recuperate strategy. One that attempts to deal with the "good health" gotcha.
The idea is to manage with a prime goal of improving health outcomes, which means playing the kids in the first part of the season.
The hope is that the kids get better with usage, and the extra rest/recuperation means the returning players stay healthy.
If it works come April you have a team that can make some noise. The downside is the kids just aren't good, the extra rest does no good, and you have a high lottery team.

Consider these directives:

1) Kemba, find and do a procedure/regime that has a nine month timeframe. See you in March
2) Jaylen, don't try to come back too soon - it did not work for Hayward. See you in February
3) Robert, you need to strengthen your inner core. Find a yoga immersion center (or whatever), and see you in January
4) Marcus: you have been clobbering yourself with heroic plays for several years. And you aren't getting younger. And you need to shorten the stupid spells and lengthen the intelligent ones.
Find a meditation center to retreat to - where you can recenter your body and soul. See you in December.
BTW: you do the above successfully, you are going to do a lot better in your next contract then if you increase your point production but continue to do everything else the same.
5) Jason. Your skill set is essentially there. Now it is time to focus on leadership. Making players around you better, learning when to take over and when to involve others, and recognizing when it is best to switch between the two. The first few months of 2021-22 are an ideal time to work on this.
6) Payton, Romeo, Aaron. Get ready for some real run the first few months. Work on your deficiencies this summer, and be ready to show us what you can do
7) Jabari. You are going to get real run. A chance to show us that there is a high lottery pick still in that basketball body of yours.
8) Evan. Get healthy, get wise. With a bit of luck, you are a key component of a deep-playoff team.
9) Tristan. Stay healthy

The gist - give the Ainge legacy one more year, but do it in a way that proactively attempts to deal with the "if healthy" gotchas.
 

Jimbodandy

Well-Known Member
Gold Supporter
SoSH Member
Jan 31, 2006
5,150
around the way
The only Jaylen deal that makes any kind of sense is for Beal. You can come up with other deals that sort of make sense but ultimately, they don't leave you very excited (Kemba and Brown for Ingram and Ball).

If KAT forces a trade, maybe for Jaylen. Although I'm sure some posters wouldn't trade Jaylen for Brown either, so maybe KAT wouldn't have to demand a trade.

Sabonis is a possibility if you think Brown/Tatum don't work for whatever reason.

Zach LaVine.


Just keep Jaylen Brown.
This post is well thought out, and the conclusion is accurate. I think that Brown has more ceiling, so there just aren't clear, obvious improvements. And I'm more inclined to move Kemba than most.
 

radsoxfan

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 9, 2009
10,438
Consider these directives:

1) Kemba, find and do a procedure/regime that has a nine month timeframe. See you in March
2) Jaylen, don't try to come back too soon - it did not work for Hayward. See you in February
3) Robert, you need to strengthen your inner core. Find a yoga immersion center (or whatever), and see you in January
4) Marcus: you have been clobbering yourself with heroic plays for several years. And you aren't getting younger. And you need to shorten the stupid spells and lengthen the intelligent ones.
Find a meditation center to retreat to - where you can recenter your body and soul. See you in December.
BTW: you do the above successfully, you are going to do a lot better in your next contract then if you increase your point production but continue to do everything else the same.

The gist - give the Ainge legacy one more year, but do it in a way that proactively attempts to deal with the "if healthy" gotchas.
1) Nice idea, they tried a version of this already. Not sure there is any miracle here.

2) I don't see why a wrist injury with a 3 month timetable would benefit from 8 months. What would Jaylen be doing from September through February?

3) TL has plenty of time in the offseason to do this

4) lol

Also, a team without Jaylen, Kemba, Marcus, and Timelord will be one of the worst teams in the NBA. Something tells me Tatum (and the fans) will be less than pleased.

Plenty of ways to focus on health without tanking the first few months of the season. They have a long offseason.
 

HomeRunBaker

bet squelcher
SoSH Member
Jan 15, 2004
20,805
I don’t see what Beal for Jaylen accomplishes. The only deal I see would be for KAT and that’s only if he makes a hard demand.
 

radsoxfan

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 9, 2009
10,438
Agree Jaylen for Beal is not all that helpful.

Maybe if there is some weird 3 team trade that you also trade Kemba (i.e. I would probably trade Kemba and Jaylen for Beal if those are the only critical pieces from the Celtics perspective).
 

128

Member
SoSH Member
May 4, 2019
4,258
And I'm more inclined to move Kemba than most.
Perhaps I'm mistaken, but I'm pretty sure almost everyone here is ready to move on from Kemba, assuming such a move doesn't cripple the C's going forward.
 

radsoxfan

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 9, 2009
10,438
Also, count me in on a KAT trade of some sort. Not sure the feasibility and mechanics of a trade, but I would love to see him and Tatum together.

KAT has stalled out a bit but he has had a tough couple of years with family stuff and Minn generally being a mess. I think he has another level and is still only 25.
 

Jimbodandy

Well-Known Member
Gold Supporter
SoSH Member
Jan 31, 2006
5,150
around the way
Perhaps I'm mistaken, but I'm pretty sure almost everyone here is ready to move on from Kemba, assuming such a move doesn't cripple the C's going forward.
Yeah most are. But even the more urgent of us don't necessarily want to package him with Brown and give away the best player in the deal.
 
Last edited:

TripleOT

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 4, 2007
4,424
The league values athletic wings who can score on all levels, and can defend multiple positions. Why trade Jaylen Brown, who does all that, and has gotten more productive pretty much every season?

To me, both the Jays are untouchable, unless a top 15 player under 28 is coming back here for JB, and a top 10 for JT.

Find a tall PG who can shoot, possibly with the number 16 pick. Sign Fournier or S and T him for a vet wing who can hit the three and create a bit. Move Kemba if it can be done without giving up this year’s pick at 16. Develop Nesmith. Develop Romeo and TL, and hope their injury luck gets better.. Use the rest of the TPE for a tough minded veteran.
 

Cellar-Door

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 1, 2006
21,364
I wouldn't do Brown for Beal.

I would do Brown for Lillard. You can figure out what to do with Kemba later, even if it's stapling a pick to him.

I would trade Brown for any top 10-12 players who are still under 31 without a doubt (Jokic, Lillard, Kawhi, Luka, Embiid) Any of them plus Tatum gives you a legit chance to win a title, only teams with a better 1/2 than you are LAL (aging), and BKN.

I like Jaylen, but those guys all to me are already at a place he's unlikely to reach.
 

dhellers

Member
SoSH Member
Oct 31, 2005
2,502
Silver Spring, Maryland
1) Nice idea, they tried a version of this already. Not sure there is any miracle here.

2) I don't see why a wrist injury with a 3 month timetable would benefit from 8 months. What would Jaylen be doing from September through February?

3) TL has plenty of time in the offseason to do this

4) lol

Also, a team without Jaylen, Kemba, Marcus, and Timelord will be one of the worst teams in the NBA. Something tells me Tatum (and the fans) will be less than pleased.

Plenty of ways to focus on health without tanking the first few months of the season. They have a long offseason.
1) Probably correct (there is no obvious 9 month recovery procedure). But assuming NO other team will do you a favor and take Kemba, it is worth a try But if some other team will take his contract without demanding something in return (i.e.; take on Porzingis)....
2) It seems to me that just about any surgery with a X month time table really means you are just getting back to normal in > 1.5X. In addition, Jaylen seems to be banged up elsewhere. He just never seemed to get over a leg injury about 6 weeks into the season. IOW: give the man EXTRA time to heal
3) Maybe, but adding 50% (6 months vs 4) might help.
4) I love Marcus' when he being an agent of chaos. He is a genuine "if you got rid of him you would spend 3 years looking for a replacement". That said: he needs a man to man talking to.

I will modify my orignals with "ramping" up replacing "wait until". So that "wait until Jan" could be "ramp up slowly for the first few months".
The point is to prioritize protecting health and building internal well being. In the hopes of reducing the probability of "injury gotchas"
 

benhogan

Granite Truther
SoSH Member
Nov 2, 2007
11,519
Santa Monica
The league values athletic wings who can score on all levels, and can defend multiple positions. Why trade Jaylen Brown, who does all that, and has gotten more productive pretty much every season?

To me, both the Jays are untouchable, unless a top 15 player under 28 is coming back here for JB, and a top 10 for JT.

Find a tall PG who can shoot, possibly with the number 16 pick. Sign Fournier or S and T him for a vet wing who can hit the three and create a bit. Move Kemba if it can be done without giving up this year’s pick at 16. Develop Nesmith. Develop Romeo and TL, and hope their injury luck gets better.. Use the rest of the TPE for a tough minded veteran.
Agree with most of this, at this point they developed Jaylen Brown into an All-Star. You keep him. Let him continue to grow with Tatum. Make them the center of the roster.

The JAYS will be dominant by the 2nd half of the '23 season. Build this team by surrounding the Jays with the complimentary players that will also be peaking by then. Adding guys that are past their peak now is how you end up with KEMBA...speaking of which, the sooner they can punt on Kemba the better, getting smaller/moveable pieces for him to make follow-up moves is probably the best we could hope for.

Unless Brad pulls off several amazing deals this year, next season can be a bridge to a 2022-23 Championship run.
 

Jimbodandy

Well-Known Member
Gold Supporter
SoSH Member
Jan 31, 2006
5,150
around the way
Agree with most of this, at this point they developed Jaylen Brown into an All-Star. You keep him. Let him continue to grow with Tatum. Make them the center of the roster.

The JAYS will be dominant by the 2nd half of the '23 season. Build this team by surrounding the Jays with the complimentary players that will also be peaking by then. Adding guys that are past their peak now is how you end up with KEMBA...speaking of which, the sooner they can punt on Kemba the better, getting smaller/moveable pieces for him to make follow-up moves is probably the best we could hope for.

Unless Brad pulls off several amazing deals this year, next season can be a bridge to a 2022-23 Championship run.
He has a lot of levers that he can pull now. Many here know the CBA better, but besides Kemba, there's still what to do with Fournier (resign or S&T), Smart, TT, existing exceptions, and some of the kids have value as players and/or ballast, plus our own picks.

He doesn't need to move Kemba or a Jay to improve the roster a lot.

It'll take work. And maybe it's still a building/bridge year. But in a weird way, it seems more likely that Brad will do something bigger than Danny would have.
 

benhogan

Granite Truther
SoSH Member
Nov 2, 2007
11,519
Santa Monica
He has a lot of levers that he can pull now. Many here know the CBA better, but besides Kemba, there's still what to do with Fournier (resign or S&T), Smart, TT, existing exceptions, and some of the kids have value as players and/or ballast, plus our own picks.

He doesn't need to move Kemba or a Jay to improve the roster a lot.

It'll take work. And maybe it's still a building/bridge year. But in a weird way, it seems more likely that Brad will do something bigger than Danny would have.
a new set of eyes on some of Danny & Cos recent FA errors

yep a bunch of levers, all need to be pulled to get a more complementary & improvement mindset roster

TT, Kemba, + end of the roster need to pack their bags
 
Last edited:

HomeRunBaker

bet squelcher
SoSH Member
Jan 15, 2004
20,805
It'll take work. And maybe it's still a building/bridge year. But in a weird way, it seems more likely that Brad will do something bigger than Danny would have.
I think the change will make altering our rotation much easier as Brad is not tied into these players as those he drafted. Danny clearly liked these players, or he wouldn’t have drafted them, and is more likely to be patient to see them develop into what he envisioned. Brad isn’t hampered by this crutch and can evaluate them without that bias. I expect to see a real good sized roster turnover.
 

TripleOT

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 4, 2007
4,424
Brad isn’t hampered by this crutch and can evaluate them without that bias. I expect to see a real good sized roster turnover.
I wonder if any affinity Brad has for the guys who played for him will affect his personnel decisions.

I don’t see Tatum or Brown being traded. For those on their rookie deals, Nesmith, Romeo, TL, and PP probably are retained, unless one of two of them have to be put in a deal to offload Kemba.

Kemba is going to be difficult to move. A decision will have to be made about investing in Fournier. Smart and TT will be in contract years. Those three are the most valuable non Jays trade assets.

I’m guessing that Brad believed that the core of this roster would have contended if healthy enough to build some cohesion. Assuming he can’t move Kemba, I expect them to run it back with:

Tatum,
Brown,
Kemba,
Smart,
TL,
Nesmith,
Romeo,
PP
16th pick
Grant Williams

That leaves five spots and two development spots. I won’t be surprised if they keep Thompson, re-sign Fournier, bring in a vet with the rest of the TPE, and fill the remaining spots with Jabari and Kornet, or two other minvets.

It’s not the change many are calling for, but I feel the organization thinks this season, with the short off season and the games missed to covid/injury wasn’t representative of the core roster. Theoretically, the team that almost made the finals two seasons ago, with Thompson, Fournier, TL playing 24+ MPG, and Nesmith, Romeo and PP playing solid rotation minutes, is enough to contend.

They might have to go that way, because there isn’t a lot of trade value on their roster after the Jays.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

Member
SoSH Member
Mar 26, 2005
23,027
1) Probably correct (there is no obvious 9 month recovery procedure). But assuming NO other team will do you a favor and take Kemba, it is worth a try But if some other team will take his contract without demanding something in return (i.e.; take on Porzingis)....
If KW is still on the team next year, which I think is the most likely scenario, there is some logic to saying to KW, "How long do you need to get ready for the playoffs" and then have him go do his treatment/rehab until that time.
 

Jimbodandy

Well-Known Member
Gold Supporter
SoSH Member
Jan 31, 2006
5,150
around the way
If KW is still on the team next year, which I think is the most likely scenario, there is some logic to saying to KW, "How long do you need to get ready for the playoffs" and then have him go do his treatment/rehab until that time.
Not a doctor, but the nature of his injury isn't that time off early in the season will necessarily mitigate late season unavailability.

Play on knee, knee hurts and swells, rest until swelling goes down, repeat.

Edit: a rest month or two early may prevent something even worse happening, I suppose, so maybe it's worth doing. But I think what we see is what we get. His availability is going to be like 60-70% forever, if we're lucky.
 

lovegtm

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 30, 2013
8,238
Kiev, Ukraine
Not a doctor, but the nature of his injury isn't that time off early in the season will necessarily mitigate late season unavailability.

Play on knee, knee hurts and swells, rest until swelling goes down, repeat.

Edit: a rest month or two early may prevent something even worse happening, I suppose, so maybe it's worth doing. But I think what we see is what we get. His availability is going to be like 60-70% forever, if we're lucky.
They might have to do something extreme, like barely play him regular season and then only 20-25 mins in the playoffs.

They can't play him zero in the regular season, because he needs to get a rhythm. But if they can't deal Kemba, he needs to be in shrinkwrap.
 

Jimbodandy

Well-Known Member
Gold Supporter
SoSH Member
Jan 31, 2006
5,150
around the way
They might have to do something extreme, like barely play him regular season and then only 20-25 mins in the playoffs.

They can't play him zero in the regular season, because he needs to get a rhythm. But if they can't deal Kemba, he needs to be in shrinkwrap.
I think they need to do more or less what they did last year in the regular season. Manage his days off like a starting pitcher and don't fuck with it. Like X number of minutes per week, X days between, never B2B, etc.

But in the playoffs, we don't really have that option. So your approach works best. He gets 20ish, no practices. I'd rather have him for 20 minutes every playoff game, then 3 games and he's out like this year. There's no toughing through bone-on-bone. Knee swells enough that it doesn't work right, nevermind the pain. Legions of hockey players have had premature retirements for this, and they don't often have to jump.
 

lovegtm

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 30, 2013
8,238
Kiev, Ukraine
I think they need to do more or less what they did last year in the regular season. Manage his days off like a starting pitcher and don't fuck with it. Like X number of minutes per week, X days between, never B2B, etc.

But in the playoffs, we don't really have that option. So your approach works best. He gets 20ish, no practices. I'd rather have him for 20 minutes every playoff game, then 3 games and he's out like this year. There's no toughing through bone-on-bone. Knee swells enough that it doesn't work, nevermind the pain. Legions of hockey players have had premature retirements for this, and they don't often have to jump.
Yeah, it helps that he's not good enough that you want to maximize his playoff minutes.
 

TripleOT

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 4, 2007
4,424
Any thoughts on Kelly Olynyk with the remaining $11 million TPE? After getting minimized on Miami, he put up big contract year numbers with a disastrous Rockets team (19 ppg in 31 minutes on 54/39/84% shooting, 8.4 rebounds and 4.1 assists).

Great contract year numbers in the lowest leverage minutes an NBA players could possibly play, but that kind of offense off the Celtics bench by a stretch big would be intriguing.

Will KO see more than the MLE? If not, the $11 million to come back to Boston should look attractive.?
 

tbrown_01923

Member
SoSH Member
Sep 29, 2006
597
Any thoughts on Kelly Olynyk with the remaining $11 million TPE? After getting minimized on Miami, he put up big contract year numbers with a disastrous Rockets team (19 ppg in 31 minutes on 54/39/84% shooting, 8.4 rebounds and 4.1 assists).

Great contract year numbers in the lowest leverage minutes an NBA players could possibly play, but that kind of offense off the Celtics bench by a stretch big would be intriguing.

Will KO see more than the MLE? If not, the $11 million to come back to Boston should look attractive.?
Can't use TPE to acquire Free Agents. I don't think you can use it in a sign and trade either...
 

chilidawg

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 22, 2015
2,900
Cultural hub of the universe
Any thoughts on Kelly Olynyk with the remaining $11 million TPE? After getting minimized on Miami, he put up big contract year numbers with a disastrous Rockets team (19 ppg in 31 minutes on 54/39/84% shooting, 8.4 rebounds and 4.1 assists).

Great contract year numbers in the lowest leverage minutes an NBA players could possibly play, but that kind of offense off the Celtics bench by a stretch big would be intriguing.

Will KO see more than the MLE? If not, the $11 million to come back to Boston should look attractive.?
I don't know how the numbers workout, but a stretch big would be a useful roster addition.
 

PedroKsBambino

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
Gold Supporter
SoSH Member
Apr 17, 2003
25,407
I'm coming around on a Kemba for Porzingis swap of bad contracts.
I think it's pretty interesting both ways, and I'm also not sure either team would say yes.

Dallas may very well still believe Porzingis can be a version of their number two, and it's hard to give that up at his age (even if his knees and risk profile are terrible)

Celtics likely asses Kemba's floor as 20-25 min of good offense and Porzingis' floor as basically zero----Kemba at least was useful when healthy this year and Porzingis' profile---7-3 with bad lower body---is abysmally bad from a projection perspective (even worse than Kemba's). Plus, while I acknowledge Stevens might view this very differently than Ainge, Celtics just have not invested in bigs in the way this would represent AND have focused on ballhandlers which becoms a gap here.
 

the moops

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 19, 2016
3,003
Saint Paul, MN
I'm pretty terrified of Kristap's knee, and his deal runs one year longer. The Celtics can be out of Kemba next summer for a not-huge asset in the worst casee.
It's a risk for sure, but a semi-healthy Porzingis is a much better fit than a semi-healthy Kemba. It does run one year longer, but Porzingis is only 25 (which seems unbelievable), so there isn't the wear, at least
 

Cesar Crespo

79
SoSH Member
Dec 22, 2002
15,518
I could see the appeal of Kristaps but I think I'd rather keep Kemba. Porzingis can't really be relied upon and he's signed for 3 more years. If he did stay healthy tho, he probably opts out after 22/23. There's a good chance he opts out anyway to secure a longer term deal with more guaranteed cash. I doubt he's in line for another max deal, anyway.


Would people be game for Kemba + Langford + 2021 1st rounder +??? for Turner and Brogdon?

I doubt Indiana would do it as they try to stay competitive.
 

Cellar-Door

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 1, 2006
21,364
I'm pretty terrified of Kristap's knee, and his deal runs one year longer. The Celtics can be out of Kemba next summer for a not-huge asset in the worst casee.
I'm worried that it's not just his knee... every part of the man's legs keep getting hurt.
Here is the current list of things that have kept him out:
Right knee meniscus tear
Right knee tendon inflammation
Right Ankle
Right hip
Right foot
Left ACL tear
Left Ankle
Left quad
Left Achilles.

Also.... even when he's been on the floor he's been.... not great. His defense is nowhere near what it was, he's not a real rim protector now, he's just a tall skinny guy. He can catch and shoot, he can catch and dunk, but nothing else really, KOC had a stat about him having the worst FG% in the league off 2+ dribbles.
View: https://twitter.com/KevinOConnorNBA/status/1402001542690095107


Now, he could bounce back, but if we think Kemba's injury issues mean he's never coming back, I don't see how you look at KP and see a guy who is coming back.
 

Cesar Crespo

79
SoSH Member
Dec 22, 2002
15,518
It's a risk for sure, but a semi-healthy Porzingis is a much better fit than a semi-healthy Kemba. It does run one year longer, but Porzingis is only 25 (which seems unbelievable), so there isn't the wear, at least
Hasn't he had foot issues in the past? Anyone that tall with any type of foot injury scares the shit out of me.
 

Cesar Crespo

79
SoSH Member
Dec 22, 2002
15,518
Also.... even when he's been on the floor he's been.... not great. His defense is nowhere near what it was, he's not a real rim protector now, he's just a tall skinny guy. He can catch and shoot, he can catch and dunk, but nothing else really, KOC had a stat about him having the worst FG% in the league off 2+ dribbles.
Sounds like are describing Lauri Markkanen, though not as skinny as KP. I'm curious what kind of offers Lauri gets this offseason. Apparently, Chicago doesn't want to re-sign him. Lauri is also 2 years younger, doesn't have the injury history and will probably sign for significantly less.
 

lexrageorge

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 31, 2007
12,338
As much as we want to be out of Kenna’s contract, there are ways of making it far worse. Porzingas would be far worse.
 

sezwho

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 20, 2005
591
Brooklyn by way of Orono
I'm pretty terrified of Kristap's knee, and his deal runs one year longer. The Celtics can be out of Kemba next summer for a not-huge asset in the worst casee.
Yup, this is true but this team has gotten appreciably worse now in three consecutive years so at this point I prefer to be a little hamstrung for 3 more (Porz) than a lot hamstrung (Kemba) for 2.

Obviously any knee related crystal balls (...paging radsox... :) ) would tip the scales towards whomever is likely to be healthy, but I'd vastly prefer intermittent contributions from a stretch big than my primary ball handler who also puts everyone on their heels on D