Cashman's Cano Contract Conundrum
- Thread starter bankshot1
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Per Mlbtraderumors:
I'll believe it when it happens. I can't see this organization letting go of Cano at any price.
I'll believe it when it happens. I can't see this organization letting go of Cano at any price.
Mariners actually aren't that far off from being competitive. They have good players to build around (King Felix, Iwakuma, Ramirez, Paxton, Seager, Farquhar, Franklin, Miller, Zunino, Montero and Almonte. Almonte especially really blossomed last year after the Yankees traded him. They have one of the top farm systems in baseball to make some trades and they have a ton of money to spend. Forbes lists them as the 12th most valuable MLB franchise and they only have ~$30 million committed to next year. They also recently paid of Safeco and got a new TV deal.
Jay-Z recruited Cano to his agency with promises of marketing opportunities and expanding the Cano brand. His own shoe from Nike, cologne, clothing line. He isn't leaving the NY market to sign with fucking Seattle.
But under the new rules, with the $20M limit on posting fees, doesn't the player gets to choose which teams he will negotiate with? Tanaka reportedly has already narrowed his list to the Yankees, Dodgers, Mets and Angels. If he doesn't go to one of those teams, he's staying in Japan. Plus he's represented by Boras. The Cubs have zero chance.jon abbey said:
It seems pretty clear that under the new rules, the Japanese clubs will make less, but the players will make more, since there will be a bidding war among the teams that posted for the player.
Per Mlbtraderumors:
Their pitch is that he could be a BASEBALL LEGEND by helping Seattle win a World Series? Where? In Japan?
Their pitch is that he could be a BASEBALL LEGEND by helping Seattle win a World Series? Where? In Japan?
We can make you a huge star kid. Bigger than Jay Buhner, bigger than grunge music, even bigger than the cast of Real World: Seattle.
They've offered him a starring role in the upcoming blockbuster "Pride of the Mariners" plus an option to star in the sequels, "Pride of the Mariners II" and "Return of the Mariners."SemperFidelisSox said:
HriniakPosterChild said:
I truly can't believe this post didn't get any love all day. Extremely well timed and it has Rocky II written all over it though Lynch is a bit better actor than Balboa was. If we were boys this commercial would be the first thing I'd show whenever the fellas were over. "Stop freakin', call Beacon." LMAO
Sampo Gida said:
Yeah, I don't see how the Yankees are a better team with the money they spent on McCann and Ellsbury instead going to Cano, Saltalamacchia, and player(s) to be named.
I don't assume that the dollars between Cano and Ellsbury would be 1:1, but Cano is only 11 months older, and has played 256 more games than Jacoby over the past 4 years, and has out-fWAR'ed him 25.4 to 16.1 over that span (if that's your thing).
Even if they matched the alleged Mariners' offer, and then matched what the Marlins did for Saltalamacchia, they still come out $7MM ahead, only risking Cano aging well into his 30s, rather than risking both a catcher who tailed off in his two seasons into his age 30 year, and a center fielder who has battled injuries in those same 28-29 seasons, and played just 18 games in his age 26 season. Both short-term and long-term it's a bigger risk, the lost draft pick is another aspect given the state of the farm system.
What you're not factoring in is what Cano's people have been telling NY, their last proposal was still in the $250M range. That is more than McCann and Ellsbury combined.
But I'm the wrong guy to ask, I wouldn't have signed McCann or Salty, I would have just gone with Cervelli/Stewart/Romine/Murphy/Sanchez and hoped one of the last three looked great in spring training.
But I'm the wrong guy to ask, I wouldn't have signed McCann or Salty, I would have just gone with Cervelli/Stewart/Romine/Murphy/Sanchez and hoped one of the last three looked great in spring training.
Okay, but if no one offers him close to $250MM, where does he sign and what for? They're typically in the driver's seat in most deals, and already overpaid what was rumored to be offered by others for Ellsbury.
mt8thsw9th said:
Right, I think what drove this (again, arguably wrongly and stupidly) was NY's sense of how the Cano negotiations were going and their worry about him stringing things out and then going elsewhere in the end and most of their potential backup options being off the table by then. I'm sure Boras did all he could to cultivate this fear in NY management, and it worked.
Basically I think Boras made Jay-Z and crew look really amateurish by comparison, and Cano will regret having switched agents by the end of this, if he doesn't already.
Some confirmation for my conjecture:
"Two days after the Yankees’ season ended, general manager Brian Cashman sat in the press conference room at Yankee Stadium and told this story. “I remember years ago,” he said, “the Houston Astros were in a tug-of-war with the New York Mets over Carlos Beltran, and they waited the entire winter. And then, when Beltran made the decision and went to the Mets, there was nothing left on the board (for the Astros). That’s a problem you don’t want to be into.”"
http://www.lohud.com/article/20131204/SPORTS/312040078
"Two days after the Yankees’ season ended, general manager Brian Cashman sat in the press conference room at Yankee Stadium and told this story. “I remember years ago,” he said, “the Houston Astros were in a tug-of-war with the New York Mets over Carlos Beltran, and they waited the entire winter. And then, when Beltran made the decision and went to the Mets, there was nothing left on the board (for the Astros). That’s a problem you don’t want to be into.”"
http://www.lohud.com/article/20131204/SPORTS/312040078
rembrat said:
That and a bigger bag of hay.
I still think there's another team in play, quietly, here ... and that is the Dodgers. The Cuban infielder they signed can play SS and Hanley is going to be a 3B eventually anyway. L.A. would offer every marketing advantage available to Cano, with the lone drawback being the distance from his family.
Cano could sign with the Dodgers, then trade Kemp to Seattle as a consolation prize
Brickowski said:
Do you have a source for any of this outside of nattysez's joke from the new posting rules thread?
nattysez said:
FWIW:
"According to a person with knowledge of the Mariners’ involvement with the free-agent second baseman, the club’s ownership doesn’t have the stomach to pay one player $200 million across eight years even though they are doing the tango with Cano’s camp."
http://nypost.com/2013/12/05/mariners-may-not-give-cano-big-bucks/
"According to a person with knowledge of the Mariners’ involvement with the free-agent second baseman, the club’s ownership doesn’t have the stomach to pay one player $200 million across eight years even though they are doing the tango with Cano’s camp."
http://nypost.com/2013/12/05/mariners-may-not-give-cano-big-bucks/
LOL, nattysez fooled me. Even so, from what I've read, it's unclear if the Japanese players union will approve a system in which the player is forced to negotiate with only one team if multiple teams have submitted the top bid.Wily Mo Lester said:
Update: See the next to last sentence of the second paragraph. That was my understanding as well.: http://www.nj.com/yankees/index.ssf/2013/12/new_npb_posting_system.html
If I were the Red Sox, I'd be thinking long and hard about sweeping in and offering Cano something like 5/$155.
From Cano's perspective: that contract would make him the highest paid player ever, he'd stay on the East Coast, he could still get another decent contract at 36, and he'd get to stick it to the Yankees. Jay-Z could count it as a 'win' for his agency.
From the Sox perspective: the problem with Cano is that the back-end of a long-term contract will be a nightmare. I think the Red Sox would prefer to pay MORE for his good years, and not have to pay for the declining years. He's been a steady 5-7 win player, healthy as a horse, and he could transition to third base (he has a terrific arm). They could then move WMB and Dempster in a package to lighten salary.
I don't know that 5/$155 would get it done, but the timing might be right....see if Cano/Jay-Z are pissed off enough at the Ellsbury/Kelly Johnson moves to sign up with the good guys.
From Cano's perspective: that contract would make him the highest paid player ever, he'd stay on the East Coast, he could still get another decent contract at 36, and he'd get to stick it to the Yankees. Jay-Z could count it as a 'win' for his agency.
From the Sox perspective: the problem with Cano is that the back-end of a long-term contract will be a nightmare. I think the Red Sox would prefer to pay MORE for his good years, and not have to pay for the declining years. He's been a steady 5-7 win player, healthy as a horse, and he could transition to third base (he has a terrific arm). They could then move WMB and Dempster in a package to lighten salary.
I don't know that 5/$155 would get it done, but the timing might be right....see if Cano/Jay-Z are pissed off enough at the Ellsbury/Kelly Johnson moves to sign up with the good guys.
jon abbey said:
I think this is dead on. Cano is going to want a night (maybe a long weekend) with Beyonce to make up for this.
I mean, maybe that's right, but they're already paying one player--one pitcher!-- $175 million across seven years. Everybody has their line, but it's pretty convenient for the Mariners' line to fall exactly at the extra year/$25M the Yankees don't want to give out.jon abbey said:
The Mariners pitch should be "we're giving you such a big contract that it's almost guaranteed we'll be trading you to someone else, probably the Yankees, in a couple of years anyway so why not sign with us".
http://espndeportes.espn.go.com/news/story?id=1973918&s=bei&type=story
Cano took a flight today to Seattle and the Mariners are willing to offer 230 to 240 million for 10 seasons per ESPN Deportes, the story was updated 20 minutes ago by Rojas https://twitter.com/Enrique_Rojas1
Cano took a flight today to Seattle and the Mariners are willing to offer 230 to 240 million for 10 seasons per ESPN Deportes, the story was updated 20 minutes ago by Rojas https://twitter.com/Enrique_Rojas1
iowacityiconoclast said:
Why in the world would Cano take roughly half of what he is reportedly seeking for the razor thin chance at another huge payday when he'll be past his prime, and why would Boston attempt to sign a position player they don't need?
Serious question: have the Yankees ever let a player like Cano go?
I mean a home-grown, Hall-of-Fame level player...don't the Yankees always keep those guys? Isn't that one of the defining characteristics of the Yankee organization, that they make players like Cano and Jeter and Mo lifers in pinstripes?
I mean a home-grown, Hall-of-Fame level player...don't the Yankees always keep those guys? Isn't that one of the defining characteristics of the Yankee organization, that they make players like Cano and Jeter and Mo lifers in pinstripes?
bankshot1 said:
But that was a short-term deal when he was a little older and wasn't about money.
IIRC, that was different, though. It wasn't that the Yankees didn't make a competative offer to keep him, it was that he wanted to go home and work with his BFF Roger.bankshot1 said:
Edit: Yep, found the link; he turned down more from the Yankees: http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=1683732
Hold on are you saying that cashmanlevinehalhank would publicly make certain demands and then do something completely different?soxhop411 said:
Wasn't the deal that Andy felt slighted during the '03 off-season, that he wasn't Cashman's top priority? So he bolted. And he was older, but not so old he didn't come back to NYC to finish it up there.
glennhoffmania said:
Heh, just every bit of info that's come out about this situation all along, plus my gut. Again, this is why they semi-panicked and overpaid for Ellsbury, because they sensed what was happening with Cano and Seattle.
foulkehampshire said:
I don't have anything everyone else doesn't have, just the way that this whole process has gone so far.
If NY had any interest in going over $200M for Cano, they would have raised their offer at least a bit when he 'dropped' his price from $310M to $250-$260M. They didn't budge from $165M-$170M then, and they're definitely not going to go well over $200M (yes, IMO) now.