Byerie Irving? Do you want Kyrie back?

What are your thoughts on Kyrie?

  • I want him back on max deal no matter what

    Votes: 60 19.5%
  • I want him back on max deal ONLY if AD is also coming

    Votes: 85 27.7%
  • I’m done with him and don’t want him back under any circumstances

    Votes: 108 35.2%
  • Not sure - I want to see how the playoffs go first

    Votes: 54 17.6%

  • Total voters
    307

scottyno

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Dec 7, 2008
4,855
The NBA needs to change this in the next CBA. I mean, Jesus, it's gotten ridiculous. Ainge has been brilliant and yet in the end it doesn't really matters as "championship building" in this league has become about self-obsessed stars choosing super teams through free agency and forcing trades. Now it seems like just as GS is about to give up its super team mantel, LeBron and company are going to build the next super team. I mean, Jesus, can't we at least have one year when the likely champion isn't decided before the first game of the year? The playoffs in the Eastern Conference were fun for the first time in years because nobody knew who was going to win it . And the only reason the Finals wasn't a snore fest was that two elite super-stars went down with major injuries. I mean, you know the league has lost it's excitement when the only hope of an exciting playoffs is untimely injuries to franchise players.
The league needs to alter the CBA in a way that raises salaries in general while making it harder for franchise players to change teams. Give the players more money, even make it easier for non-franchise players to change teams, but somehow (attach draft pick penalties, allow a franchise tag etc.) this league needs to make the end stage of the playoffs more competitive. The only way to do that is to somehow get a handle on free agency among the elite stars.
Get rid of max contracts or at least make the percentage of the cap more like 50%, super teams would be possible, but a lot harder to form if the real superstars earned what they were actually worth, instead of superstars and borderline all stars earning similar salaries.
 

jon abbey

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Jul 15, 2005
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this league needs to make the end stage of the playoffs more competitive. The only way to do that is to somehow get a handle on free agency among the elite stars.
The much easier way is just seed the playoff teams 1-16, I have said it a million times but it would instantly make the league like 40 percent better to me.
 

lovegtm

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Apr 30, 2013
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Kiev, Ukraine
The NBA needs to change this in the next CBA. I mean, Jesus, it's gotten ridiculous. Ainge has been brilliant and yet in the end it doesn't really matters as "championship building" in this league has become about self-obsessed stars choosing super teams through free agency and forcing trades. Now it seems like just as GS is about to give up its super team mantel, LeBron and company are going to build the next super team. I mean, Jesus, can't we at least have one year when the likely champion isn't decided before the first game of the year? The playoffs in the Eastern Conference were fun for the first time in years because nobody knew who was going to win it . And the only reason the Finals wasn't a snore fest was that two elite super-stars went down with major injuries. I mean, you know the league has lost it's excitement when the only hope of an exciting playoffs is untimely injuries to franchise players.
The league needs to alter the CBA in a way that raises salaries in general while making it harder for franchise players to change teams. Give the players more money, even make it easier for non-franchise players to change teams, but somehow (attach draft pick penalties, allow a franchise tag etc.) this league needs to make the end stage of the playoffs more competitive. The only way to do that is to somehow get a handle on free agency among the elite stars.
This is pretty hilarious given that the new LA “super team” is going to have trouble even filling out its starting rotation precisely BECAUSE the top 2 players make a lot and there isn’t really any money left after that.

The Lakers may win the title, but if they do, it will be close as hell, because they’re really thin. This is exactly how the NBA does (and should) want it.

The bigger problem for the league will come if LeBron ages quickly, AD leaves, and the league’s marquee franchise is stuck as the Nets for 5 years.
 

BaseballJones

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Oct 1, 2015
5,731
Get rid of max contracts or at least make the percentage of the cap more like 50%, super teams would be possible, but a lot harder to form if the real superstars earned what they were actually worth, instead of superstars and borderline all stars earning similar salaries.
I agree. I think it's crazy to have both salary caps for teams AND max contracts for individual players (well obviously the "max" contract a player could make is the salary cap minus league minimum to fill out the rest of the roster). If a team wants to spend $75 million a season for prime Kawhi, they should be able to do that. Good luck winning though. But hey, their call. And Kawhi's. Players would have to take that into consideration. It would likely spread out the star talent and, as you said, keep super teams to a minimum.
 

tbb345

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Apr 23, 2010
978
There is only one Smarf...
View attachment 24907


Kyrie hurt the organization short term and long term.
Short term in that there was a 2-year window where the Celtics could get to the Finals or maybe even challenge the Dubs. They went 0-for-2 and did better without him.
Worse, he hurt them long term by poisoning the well to the extent that AD wouldn't consider coming (despite Danny's 4-year plan to get him) and Kyrie himself was so toxic that he had to go. Trading for him was worth the risk but boy did it turn out to be the worst possible outcome and it may set the franchise back years. And as mentioned upthread, getting nothing back (not even a compensatory pick like in other leagues) other than his cap space hurts.

This is 100% right.

Earlier in the thread someone called Kyrie "spineless", I don't agree with that. However he, and this is the same criticism I had of his bestie KD, seems to have less than 0 self awareness. Instead of acknowledging their own faults/mistakes, they blame/lash out at everyone else around them and when cornered they try to make it into a giant existential question/debate instead of just owning up ("Why do we even have the media?!" "I shouldn't have to answer these questions every day!")

The fact that he wants to go to another situation where he can be a "leader" on a young team is absolutely mind boggling. He's absolutely terrible at it and doesn't seem to even want the responsibility when the going gets even somewhat tough.

He's also trading in a situation that he deemed untenable and couldn't work with to go to another team that is....the exact same except slightly worse in every aspect? Maybe he figured out that the Illuminati HQ is in Brooklyn and he realizes that he has to play all of his home games in that city in order to bring them down
 

DrewDawg

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Dec 16, 2010
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In a completely scientific twitter poll, the NY Post asked if fans want the Nets to sign Irving. Right now it's 52% no. lol
 

djbayko

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Jul 18, 2005
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In a completely scientific twitter poll, the NY Post asked if fans want the Nets to sign Irving. Right now it's 52% no. lol
r/NBA is pretty much universally trolling Kyrie at this point (despite respecting his talent). His stock is at an all-time low, and the gossip hasn't even really started yet. His return to the Garden next season is going to be fascinating. Boston has a long history of bad breakups with star athletes, but when is the last time it's happened with the Celtics?
 

DrewDawg

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r/NBA is pretty much universally trolling Kyrie at this point (despite respecting his talent). His stock is at an all-time low, and the gossip hasn't even really started yet. His return to the Garden next season is going to be fascinating. Boston has a long history of bad breakups with star athletes, but when is the last time it's happened with the Celtics?
IT?
 

Light-Tower-Power

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Jun 14, 2013
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Absolutely, but it was a bad breakup. Seems all concerned are okay now.
It was more of a bad breakup with the FO than the fans I think. The Kyrie breakup is going to be ugly with the fans. Wouldn't be shocked to hear an "FU Kyrie" chant go up next season.
 

lexrageorge

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Jul 31, 2007
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Yes, and there was something like that with Brian Shaw as well.
Brian Shaw left to play in Italy after his rookie season after he and the team couldn't come to an agreement on a contract.

Jon Barry was a weird situation from the get-go; the Celtics FO was a total disaster with ML Carr and Thanks Dad! running the show.

I don't expect the Celtics to plant any negative stories about Kyrie; in fact, I expect the opposite. There may be some anecdotes from anonymous sources, but I think Ainge and the ownership team will keep the negativity to a minimum. But the fan reaction will be brutal when Kyrie returns, and I'm totally fine with that.
 

nighthob

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I think that people forget just how hated Thanks Dad! was around the NBA (by players, agents, etc.). He was basically Sterling East and made the Celtics nearly as attractive as a nuclear wast site.
 

Mueller's Twin Grannies

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Dec 19, 2009
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Ray Allen?
This is my answer. Allen rejected the Celtics (with whom he could have won another title) because he couldn't stand Rondo to go sniff LeBron's fart fumes and ride his coattails to another title for what was the biggest rival the Celtics had at the time. All of his teammates immediately turned their backs on him and there was bad blood for a long time, especially after he helped beat them in the ECFs en route to, yup, another title for those shits. I don't know if KG and Pierce have ever truly forgiven him for being so selfish and being instrumental in costing them another shot at a ring. Quite frankly, they shouldn't and I wouldn't blame them if they skip out on his funeral, should they all live that long.
 

lexrageorge

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This is my answer. Allen rejected the Celtics (with whom he could have won another title) because he couldn't stand Rondo to go sniff LeBron's fart fumes and ride his coattails to another title for what was the biggest rival the Celtics had at the time. All of his teammates immediately turned their backs on him and there was bad blood for a long time, especially after he helped beat them in the ECFs en route to, yup, another title for those shits. I don't know if KG and Pierce have ever truly forgiven him for being so selfish and being instrumental in costing them another shot at a ring. Quite frankly, they shouldn't and I wouldn't blame them if they skip out on his funeral, should they all live that long.
Well, Allen was a free agent, so was free to go anywhere. Ainge (prudently) waited on resigning him until KG was sure of his future, as Garnett was mulling retirement. Allen felt he couldn't wait, and clearly didn't want to lose out on free agency. And KG and Pierce felt burned, even though KG's waffling on coming back was a key factor in Allen's departure.

I think that people forget just how hated Thanks Dad! was around the NBA (by players, agents, etc.). He was basically Sterling East and made the Celtics nearly as attractive as a nuclear wast site.
Whenever someone recycles the tired mem of how the Celtics never sign free agents, I always bring up the fact that the Celtics ownership situation was truly in the toilet until Wyc & Co. rescued the team. Gaston Jr was absolutely toxic.
 

johnmd20

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Dec 30, 2003
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The NBA needs to change this in the next CBA. I mean, Jesus, it's gotten ridiculous. Ainge has been brilliant and yet in the end it doesn't really matters as "championship building" in this league has become about self-obsessed stars choosing super teams through free agency and forcing trades. Now it seems like just as GS is about to give up its super team mantel, LeBron and company are going to build the next super team. I mean, Jesus, can't we at least have one year when the likely champion isn't decided before the first game of the year? The playoffs in the Eastern Conference were fun for the first time in years because nobody knew who was going to win it . And the only reason the Finals wasn't a snore fest was that two elite super-stars went down with major injuries. I mean, you know the league has lost it's excitement when the only hope of an exciting playoffs is untimely injuries to franchise players.
The league needs to alter the CBA in a way that raises salaries in general while making it harder for franchise players to change teams. Give the players more money, even make it easier for non-franchise players to change teams, but somehow (attach draft pick penalties, allow a franchise tag etc.) this league needs to make the end stage of the playoffs more competitive. The only way to do that is to somehow get a handle on free agency among the elite stars.
Tough post considering Toronto just won the Championship and they weren't really a hot pick coming into the season. It was sincerely not decided by July.
 

cheech13

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Jan 5, 2006
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The NBA needs to change this in the next CBA. I mean, Jesus, it's gotten ridiculous. Ainge has been brilliant and yet in the end it doesn't really matters as "championship building" in this league has become about self-obsessed stars choosing super teams through free agency and forcing trades.
Ainge's "brilliance" required two stars to choose his super team in free agency and a third to force his way onto Boston via a trade.

Now it seems like just as GS is about to give up its super team mantel, LeBron and company are going to build the next super team.
Except for the fact that they have no money or trade assets left to actually assemble a team around Lebron and Davis. It's almost a certainty that 3-5 players in their rotation are going to be second round picks or veteran minimum guys. The CBA is actually preventing them from making a super team.

I mean, Jesus, can't we at least have one year when the likely champion isn't decided before the first game of the year?
You realize Toronto, a team no one envisioned winning the title in October, just won the title, right?

The playoffs in the Eastern Conference were fun for the first time in years because nobody knew who was going to win it . And the only reason the Finals wasn't a snore fest was that two elite super-stars went down with major injuries.
Klay didn't get injured until the end of game 6. Plus some projection models had Toronto as the favorite even against a healthy GS team. We'll never know.

I mean, you know the league has lost it's excitement when the only hope of an exciting playoffs is untimely injuries to franchise players.
The league needs to alter the CBA in a way that raises salaries in general while making it harder for franchise players to change teams. Give the players more money, even make it easier for non-franchise players to change teams, but somehow (attach draft pick penalties, allow a franchise tag etc.) this league needs to make the end stage of the playoffs more competitive. The only way to do that is to somehow get a handle on free agency among the elite stars.
More money for star players is good. Not sure how that changes the competitive environment.
 

djbayko

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Jul 18, 2005
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This would be rich...

Kyrie Irving Rumors: Nets May Stop Pursuing PG Without Kevin Durant Commitment
However, the New York Post's Brian Lewis added a plot twist Wednesday night:

"The Post has confirmed Brooklyn might have qualms about signing the enigmatic Irving if he isn’t bringing the injured [Kevin] Durant with him.

Other teams had already backed off of pursuing Irving with similar concerns over the way things went awry in Boston. If the Nets do the same, it would mean keeping [D'Angelo] Russell, who is a younger and cheaper option as a restricted free agent."
Where does Kyrie go if Durant stays in GS and this comes to fruition? Will the Knicks take him? Does he go crawling back to Lebron? Can they even afford him?
 

DrewDawg

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Dec 16, 2010
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Brad Stevens: good morning Kyrie
Kyrie: black holes suck in matter at one-third the speed of li—
Jaylen: actually black holes don't suck. they're a mass of matter so dense, with a gravitational field so strong, that not even light can escape
Kyrie: *signs with Nets*
 

kazuneko

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Nov 10, 2006
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Tough post considering Toronto just won the Championship and they weren't really a hot pick coming into the season. It was sincerely not decided by July.
You act like I didn't address this in my original post. Here's a quote from that post:
"the only reason the Finals wasn't a snore fest was that two elite super-stars went down with major injuries. I mean, you know the league has lost it's excitement when the only hope of an exciting playoffs is untimely injuries to franchise players."
It's been literally three years of "championship excitement" being limited to the slim (but finally realized hope) of a major injury inflicting a GS star or two. Are you seriously saying the East wasn't more fun this year without the free agency created LeBron super team (version 2) competing? I found it pretty awesome to have no idea who might win the Eastern Conference for once. If the league made changes that made it harder to build super teams the playoffs might be able to be more like how the east was this year and less like how the whole league has been for the last three.
 
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nighthob

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Where does Kyrie go if Durant stays in GS and this comes to fruition? Will the Knicks take him? Does he go crawling back to Lebron? Can they even afford him?
The Clippers come calling to add him to Kawhi and arrange a sign & trade with Boston to clear the necessary cap space! :drunk:
 

DrewDawg

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Kyrie Irving's relationship with Jaylen Brown 'probably the worst' on Celtics

Jaylen Brown, he was probably the worst with. I don’t think it was great with Jayson Tatum, and it was awful with Terry Rozier because Terry was supplanted at a position he thought he did enough to win. That created a pretty nasty atmosphere. Kyrie’s leadership skills were lacking, and he failed at it. He was the first player to be coached by Brad Stevens who didn’t really enjoy being coached by Brad Stevens and that relationship wasn’t solid.”
We've all worked with someone like Kyrie. They're good at their job, so they get promoted, but they have next to zero people skills, and being good at your job doesn't mean you'd be a good leader, manager, director, etc. Not to mention, with these types of people, it's always everyone else's fault that there is friction.

Although, in regards to Rozier, I mean, come on---you weren't "winning" that spot. You're not Lou Gehrig replacing Wally Pipp here.
 

lexrageorge

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What's stupid is that if Kyrie came back to the Celtics this coming season, there was 0% chance that Rozier was going to be wearing Green anyway.
 

lovegtm

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You act like I didn't address this in my original post. Here's a quote from that post:
"the only reason the Finals wasn't a snore fest was that two elite super-stars went down with major injuries. I mean, you know the league has lost it's excitement when the only hope of an exciting playoffs is untimely injuries to franchise players."
It's been literally three years of "championship excitement" being limited to the slim (but finally realized hope) of a major injury inflicting a GS star or two. Are you seriously saying the East wasn't more fun this year without the free agency created LeBron super team (version 2) competing? I found it pretty awesome to have no idea who might win the Eastern Conference for once. If the league made changes that made it harder to build super teams the playoffs might be able to be more like how the east was this year and less like how the whole league has been for the last three.
You still haven't addressed the fact that the lack of excitement the past few years was created solely by the one-time cap spike. Every championship prior to the Durant Warriors had been hotly contested, and now it appears we're back in that era.

You're trying to solve a problem that existed only for very specific reasons, and has since been addressed.
 

Devizier

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Kyrie Irving's relationship with Jaylen Brown 'probably the worst' on Celtics



We've all worked with someone like Kyrie. They're good at their job, so they get promoted, but they have next to zero people skills, and being good at your job doesn't mean you'd be a good leader, manager, director, etc. Not to mention, with these types of people, it's always everyone else's fault that there is friction.

Although, in regards to Rozier, I mean, come on---you weren't "winning" that spot. You're not Lou Gehrig replacing Wally Pipp here.
Yeah, it’s called the Peter Principle but it’s not exactly analogous in a sports team since technically Kyrie doesn’t outrank his teammates.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Whenever someone recycles the tired mem of how the Celtics never sign free agents, I always bring up the fact that the Celtics ownership situation was truly in the toilet until Wyc & Co. rescued the team. Gaston Jr was absolutely toxic.
How tired is it now when FA can't wait to bolt out of town? The shine on Brad is fading quickly. Are we really still living under the mirage that players want to come here? The only time they ever have was to have a legit chance at a Championship.
 

Captaincoop

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Jul 16, 2005
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How tired is it now when FA can't wait to bolt out of town? The shine on Brad is fading quickly. Are we really still living under the mirage that players want to come here? The only time they ever have was to have a legit chance at a Championship.
I almost responded to say the same thing.
NBA players generally do not want to live in Boston, all things being equal.

Look at the dysfunction and failure in LA over the last 5 years, and guys are still manipulating their way to the Lakers (and trying to give away money to help).
 

The Social Chair

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Are we really still living under the mirage that players want to come here? The only time they ever have was to have a legit chance at a Championship.
This is true for every team in the NBA but the Lakers, and even they couldn't get free agent meetings from 2012 - 2017. Miami struck out hard 2 years ago. Dallas has solid weather and no state income tax and they have been spurned more than any team in free agency.
 

OurF'ingCity

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The only time they ever have was to have a legit chance at a Championship.
This is true of every team, possibly with the exception of the Lakers (and even they weren't attracting much attention until LeBron chose to go there). People really need to let go of the idea that Boston is somehow particularly spurned as a free agency destination - they've had better success in that regard over the past 5-10 years than probably 75-90% of the other NBA teams.

Edit: Social Chair beat me to it.
 

lexrageorge

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How tired is it now when FA can't wait to bolt out of town? The shine on Brad is fading quickly. Are we really still living under the mirage that players want to come here? The only time they ever have was to have a legit chance at a Championship.
One of those bolting FA's is quickly becoming known around the league as a head case who seriously overrates himself. The other departure is either a money/term or ring-chasing situation, which Brad can do nothing about. Is the shine off of Popovich because of Kawhi? And is it true that Horford and Hayward no longer count as players that wanted to come here?

Comparing the current situation to the Thanks Dad! years is a Mazz-ian hot take to the Nth degree.
 

HomeRunBaker

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This is true of every team, possibly with the exception of the Lakers (and even they weren't attracting much attention until LeBron chose to go there). People really need to let go of the idea that Boston is somehow particularly spurned as a free agency destination - they've had better success in that regard over the past 5-10 years than probably 75-90% of the other NBA teams.

Edit: Social Chair beat me to it.
Sure the ideal destinations vary from year to year but to say the short list is only the Lakers will soon be expanded to a minimum whichever teams sign our two primary FA.....and obviously others.
 

Devizier

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With the ways athletes live today, choice of locale probably matters less than ever. So much of their life is dedicated to their profession, and the stuff they do outside of it is far more private than athletes in years past.
 

HomeRunBaker

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One of those bolting FA's is quickly becoming known around the league as a head case who seriously overrates himself. The other departure is either a money/term or ring-chasing situation, which Brad can do nothing about. Is the shine off of Popovich because of Kawhi? And is it true that Horford and Hayward no longer count as players that wanted to come here?

Comparing the current situation to the Thanks Dad! years is a Mazz-ian hot take to the Nth degree.
Pop is apples and oranges. Kawhi's issue was with the Spurs medical teams diagnosis...….Brad has been heavily criticized by some of his biggest supporters this past season, mismanaged his roster (that was admittedly flawed and a tough deck to be handed) while half his rotation is literally running out the exit door!

I don't know how Hayward feels but it's pretty clear that Horford is simply following the money and accepting one huge Celtics offer that nobody else had on the table doesn't really count as feather in our cap.


With the ways athletes live today, choice of locale probably matters less than ever. So much of their life is dedicated to their profession, and the stuff they do outside of it is far more private than athletes in years past.
I so agree with this. The CBA allows for players to have the abiltiy to do more traveling in-season than ever before while some players even negotiating into contracts their team providing accomodations for their off-court activities.
 

Average Game James

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I don't know how Hayward feels but it's pretty clear that Horford is simply following the money and accepting one huge Celtics offer that nobody else had on the table doesn't really count as feather in our cap.
Both Hayward and Horford passed up 5 year max offers from their old teams to come here. Boston will never be a premier FA destination, but both took less to come here, so it’s not like the only way to attract FA talent is to overpay.
 

lexrageorge

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Horford could have stayed in Atlanta, and IIRC other teams were knocking on his door as well.

Horford initially indicated he would stay, and never seemed to not like it here, and always said good things about Stevens. Kyrie leaving seemed to change all that, so it seems likely that Horford is ring-chasing, which is his right. Or maybe a team is out there willing to offer him the max for 3 or 4 years, which is difficult for the Celtics to swallow given their current situation. Using Horford as an example of how players don't want to play for Stevens is stupid, and everyone who's been following this team knows that.