Byerie Irving? Do you want Kyrie back?

What are your thoughts on Kyrie?

  • I want him back on max deal no matter what

    Votes: 60 19.5%
  • I want him back on max deal ONLY if AD is also coming

    Votes: 85 27.7%
  • I’m done with him and don’t want him back under any circumstances

    Votes: 108 35.2%
  • Not sure - I want to see how the playoffs go first

    Votes: 54 17.6%

  • Total voters
    307

djbayko

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If he's poisoning the well to the point that other players don't want to play in Boston, well, screw him. I sense a pattern here, and as he's the first player to have a problem with either Stevens or Ainge (to say nothing of Al Horford), the pattern is pretty damning.
It probably wasn't obvious in Cleveland because everyone around Lebron being miserable wasn't exactly unusual :D
 

HomeRunBaker

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How the heck is that Brad Stevens' fault? What mirage are you talking about? You're trying to make an argument that just isn't there.
Brad admitted himself he did not have a good year, but that does not erase all the good he's done since coming from Butler.
I'm not saying anything different than what Brad admitted. I've actually defended Brad much of this season for the cluster of a roster Danny gave him. When veterans run for the door and a young player like Rozier bolts while not having nice words to say well......if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck with the coach telling you it was a duck I'm not sure what you're questioning.
 

JakeRae

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I'm not saying anything different than what Brad admitted. I've actually defended Brad much of this season for the cluster of a roster Danny gave him. When veterans run for the door and a young player like Rozier bolts while not having nice words to say well......if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck with the coach telling you it was a duck I'm not sure what you're questioning.
Good leaders shoulder blame for things that aren’t their fault. It’s leadership/management 101. That Stevens is saying this is his fault simply demonstrates that he understands that fact. The core issue is clearly not his fault, although it does appear he didn’t manage the situation ideally.
 

DrewDawg

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Good leaders shoulder blame for things that aren’t their fault. It’s leadership/management 101. That Stevens is saying this is his fault simply demonstrates that he understands that fact. The core issue is clearly not his fault, although it does appear he didn’t manage the situation ideally.
Yeah, you don't have to be 100%, you just have to learn from your mistakes.
 

BillLeesJumpShot

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It's funny, but when I saw Kyrie's comments about Brad, Danny and Boston, i thought, "wherever you go, Kyrie, there you are." Then I came here and saw Kazuneko's comments and it just clicked regarding what is going on in his head. We don't know of course, but all the events of this season and his inability to get along with, well EVERYONE, seems a bit telling. I mean Al? AL?? As others have pointed out in this thread, we shall see what happens at his next stop.
 

lexrageorge

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Again, Rozier is a career bench player; no one really cares what he thinks about Brad Stevens. He just wants to start, and hated playing behind Kyrie, so it's not clear he has a problem with Stevens.

Kyrie is clearly demonstrating a pattern. Horford either wants to get paid big $$, or wants a ring; his departure has nothing to do with either Ainge or Stevens.

Stevens did not have his best season. But he's not the reason players are leaving.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Well he ran away from Cleveland for the same reasons. Pretty obvious it’s the guy and not the organizations.
Kyrie left Cleveland because he knew LeBron was bolting the following year and he didn't want to be left there with JR, Tristan, Korver, and the others who were brought in to make Championship runs with LeBron. Can anyone argue that this wasn't the correct play on Kyrie's part?

Ainge would sign Kyrie to a max deal tomorrow if he would stay. Kobe pissed off many teammates when he was younger too......shit, he ran SHAQ out of town! You don't allow your two best players walk for nothing, in the same summer, without crushing your franchise for at least a half dozen years. Why would Ainge choose that route rather than building off an elite talent or at the very least have an asset to trade in 6 or 12 months? The simple answer is that he wouldn't and is likely working very hard to convince Kyrie to stay.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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Kyrie left Cleveland because he knew LeBron was bolting the following year and he didn't want to be left there with JR, Tristan, Korver, and the others who were brought in to make Championship runs with LeBron. Can anyone argue that this wasn't the correct play on Kyrie's part?

Ainge would sign Kyrie to a max deal tomorrow if he would stay. Kobe pissed off many teammates when he was younger too......shit, he ran SHAQ out of town! You don't allow your two best players walk for nothing, in the same summer, without crushing your franchise for at least a half dozen years. Why would Ainge choose that route rather than building off an elite talent or at the very least have an asset to trade in 6 or 12 months? The simple answer is that he wouldn't and is likely working very hard to convince Kyrie to stay.
I totally get the frustration, or worse, that people have with Kyrie, even if some folks who don't know him personally seem to feel they have a good handle on his personality. That said, the guy is an elite offensive talent and with the cap situation being what it is, he is still the best option available for the Celtics as a lead scorer.

I don't have confidence that he is returning but even after all that has transpired, the Celtics have every incentive to try to bring him back. As you note, his return changes the next three to four years in that the Celtics have a chance to add to their core and compete at the same time. They will have a much more difficult time competing without him and it will entail Ainge having the same sort of "luck" he had during the last rebuild.

Resigning Irving would be far easier.
 

Pxer

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This thread is just really making me sad. 0% chance the Cs wouldn't take Kyrie back in a heartbeat if he wanted to sign. His trade value alone is worth it.
 

NomarsFool

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This thread is just really making me sad. 0% chance the Cs wouldn't take Kyrie back in a heartbeat if he wanted to sign. His trade value alone is worth it.
Agreed. That's why the Celtics are doing nothing at all to potentially piss him off. I don't think they expect him to come back, they aren't idiots. But, you also don't see them publicly saying that they wish him well but they are turning their attention elsewhere. As much as we wish his personality was different, he's still the best talent the Celtics could possibly add this offseason. Kawhi Leonard isn't walking through that door. Kemba Walker isn't walking through that door. Klay Thompson or Kevin Durant could be wheeled through the door, but that doesn't help much.
 

JakeRae

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One thing to keep in mind is that the degree to which teammates apparently disliked Kyrie is potentially not something Ainge or even Stevens really knew during the season. That’s not to say they didn’t know there were locker room issues, but Kyrie was the star and while players likely talked among themselves about him, and the tension was obvious even to fans, the degree to which they disliked him is not something they were likely to raise to management. This is like any work environment, you don’t complain up about your coworkers, particularly ones that management has shown they value. But now that he is presumptively gone, guys have aired some of their grievances with him. I’m not sure Ainge would bring him back because a commitment to Kyrie seems like it carries the risk of Brown and Tatum later trying to force their way out. Kyrie simply isn’t good enough to risk the rest of our young core to maintain, especially Tatum, who is the only player we have with a ceiling as the sort of MVP caliber player you normally need to win a title.
 

LukefromNH

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The real issue is that we can't replace his contract. I think the guy is truly toxic despite his talent but would resign him in a heartbeat just because of the cap implications. That being said I've thought since January that he was gone and I'm surprised Danny didn't see it and ship his ass out before the deadline.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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This tweet is by a Celtics broadcaster. There is no chance he's back:

That Tweet by Grande may or may not be correct. However there is nothing new in there.

There is a 0.0% chance of Irving coming back. Let it go.
Who hasn't let it go? Some of us are just making the point that if there were a chance that Boston could resign him, its not beyond the pale that they would do so given their alternatives.

Your odds seem right but I am not sure its exactly 0.00% unless you are privy to information that isn't already public.

Not picking on you or any one poster - we have all been guilty of it in this forum - but definitive takes seem to be pretty poor on the whole around here. Last fall, many here were certain the Celtics would reach the ECF again if not go further. Many here were also pretty sure that Irving would return, Horford would re-up and Anthony Davis would be in Boston.

I can go on and I am guilty of this too but we have been collectively very, very wrong when we are certain we are right. I now prefer to use terms that favor an outcome but don't absolutely predict it. Nobody gets credit for being 100% right here but I have seen posts looking for others to admit that they are wrong (good luck with that btw). People can do whatever they want, of course, but I find that admitting you cannot predict the future with certainty is a bit freeing.
 

Reverend

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It's not new info. It's a Celtics employee/plugged in person tweeting it that's interesting (are broadcasters employed by team or station?).
Yeah, it’s not so much an opinion on the idea that the fans have turned on Kyrie, it’s the thing itself.

I can’t remember seeing anything like that from a media member before.
 

DrewDawg

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Yeah, it’s not so much an opinion on the idea that the fans have turned on Kyrie, it’s the thing itself.

I can’t remember seeing anything like that from a media member before.
We gotta get Dennis Eckersley on twitter.
 

MuzzyField

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The real issue is that we can't replace his contract. I think the guy is truly toxic despite his talent but would resign him in a heartbeat just because of the cap implications. That being said I've thought since January that he was gone and I'm surprised Danny didn't see it and ship his ass out before the deadline.
Yes, this is the cap problem, but this is the only way to alleviate the real problem. I can't wait until whatever day in July this beta longing to be alpha dude is gone. He's helping (not an assist guy) sink the ship.Cut the cord and save the ship.
 

djbayko

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That Tweet by Grande may or may not be correct. However there is nothing new in there.


Who hasn't let it go? Some of us are just making the point that if there were a chance that Boston could resign him, its not beyond the pale that they would do so given their alternatives.

Your odds seem right but I am not sure its exactly 0.00% unless you are privy to information that isn't already public.

Not picking on you or any one poster - we have all been guilty of it in this forum - but definitive takes seem to be pretty poor on the whole around here. Last fall, many here were certain the Celtics would reach the ECF again if not go further. Many here were also pretty sure that Irving would return, Horford would re-up and Anthony Davis would be in Boston.

I can go on and I am guilty of this too but we have been collectively very, very wrong when we are certain we are right. I now prefer to use terms that favor an outcome but don't absolutely predict it. Nobody gets credit for being 100% right here but I have seen posts looking for others to admit that they are wrong (good luck with that btw). People can do whatever they want, of course, but I find that admitting you cannot predict the future with certainty is a bit freeing.
See, I think that's the problem right there. Some here strongly disagree on that.

It's not worth the risk of punting on another season, hindering the growth of your young core, further dividing the locker room, and possibly causing more players to want to seek new homes - players you really want to keep. Based on the leaks already coming out this past week, there's no way Danny is going down that path.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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See, I think that's the problem right there. Some here strongly disagree on that.

It's not worth the risk of punting on another season, hindering the growth of your young core, further dividing the locker room, and possibly causing more players to want to seek new homes - players you really want to keep. Based on the leaks already coming out this past week, there's no way Danny is going down that path.
No way?

I mean, if Irving decided he wanted to return I would not be surprised if Ainge did entertain it but I defer to others here who may be more in the know.

Now if people are arguing that he may be conflicted about it, I buy that. But again the problem is that there is no replacement out there for Irving or his salary slot. The difference between having that or not is huge in terms of not just production but an asset as well. Ainge could sign him and then move him down the road.
 

lovegtm

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No way?

I mean, if Irving decided he wanted to return I would not be surprised if Ainge did entertain it but I defer to others here who may be more in the know.

Now if people are arguing that he may be conflicted about it, I buy that. But again the problem is that there is no replacement out there for Irving or his salary slot. The difference between having that or not is huge in terms of not just production but an asset as well. Ainge could sign him and then move him down the road.
The issue here is that the team likely (60%+?) now wants to keep him isolated from the Js, since it seems at least possible he’s bad for their development, and hence asset value.

The transaction you’re describing sounds more like an immediate S&T, and if Brooklyn is off the table, that opens up a lot of possible Kyrie destinations that don’t have space. I wouldn’t be shocked to see something like that happen, and then nighthob can take his victory lap as the resident nostradomus.
 

nighthob

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I think the spectacle of the Nets and Knicks deciding that they don’t want him and Kyrie having to make the rounds is potentially hilarious. Mostly because of the teams with cap space to give him a max I doubt the Kings would take him. That pretty much leaves him with the Clippers, Mavs, Celtics, and Sixers as possibilities. And the Sixers only if Butler and Harris sign elsewhere.

So, yes, it would be best for Boston if Durant re-signed with the Warriors and New York and Brooklyn decide they don’t want Irving near their young players unless he comes attached at the hip with a second star. Because Rivers/LA is Irving’s best bet to rehab his tarnished reputation, and Boston’s best shot at a sign & trade as even they’d want two stars and would prefer moving off Gallinari to get him.
 

bigq

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of the teams with cap space to give him a max I doubt the Kings would take him. That pretty much leaves him with the Clippers, Mavs, Celtics, and Sixers as possibilities. And the Sixers only if Butler and Harris sign elsewhere.
Even if the Sixers don’t sign Butler and Harris they still have Simmons so I’m not sure they would be a fit.

I agree with your point that the potential list of suitors is a short one. I wonder if Kyrie would consider a short term non-max deal. Doesn’t seem likely but it would open up more options and he could put himself back in a max position in another year or two.
 

Captaincoop

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Even if the Sixers don’t sign Butler and Harris they still have Simmons so I’m not sure they would be a fit.

I agree with your point that the potential list of suitors is a short one. I wonder if Kyrie would consider a short term non-max deal. Doesn’t seem likely but it would open up more options and he could put himself back in a max position in another year or two.
How about a role in Space Jam 2 and the veteran minimum?
 

TripleOT

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I think the spectacle of the Nets and Knicks deciding that they don’t want him and Kyrie having to make the rounds is potentially hilarious. Mostly because of the teams with cap space to give him a max I doubt the Kings would take him. That pretty much leaves him with the Clippers, Mavs, Celtics, and Sixers as possibilities. And the Sixers only if Butler and Harris sign elsewhere.

So, yes, it would be best for Boston if Durant re-signed with the Warriors and New York and Brooklyn decide they don’t want Irving near their young players unless he comes attached at the hip with a second star. Because Rivers/LA is Irving’s best bet to rehab his tarnished reputation, and Boston’s best shot at a sign & trade as even they’d want two stars and would prefer moving off Gallinari to get him.
So would it be Kyrie for Gallo and Lou Williams in a S and T? Clips sign Kawhi as a max FA, bring in another FA with their remaining cap space?

That would be a fun Celtics team, with both those deals expiring. If the team isn't playoff bound, both those guys would be great additions to contending teams at the deadline.
 

Light-Tower-Power

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I know we throw around the word “hate” when it comes to athletes a lot and it’s usually dumb fan bullshit but man, Kyrie is 100% the kind of guy I’d want to punch in the face in real life.
 

nighthob

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So would it be Kyrie for Gallo and Lou Williams in a S and T? Clips sign Kawhi as a max FA, bring in another FA with their remaining cap space?

That would be a fun Celtics team, with both those deals expiring. If the team isn't playoff bound, both those guys would be great additions to contending teams at the deadline.
Kyrie’s cap number in trade doesn’t accommodate Gallo and Williams. So the scenario you’re hoping for is Kyrie/whatever necessary for Gallo & SGA (who’s overqualified to be Kyrie’s backup).
 

lovegtm

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I think the spectacle of the Nets and Knicks deciding that they don’t want him and Kyrie having to make the rounds is potentially hilarious. Mostly because of the teams with cap space to give him a max I doubt the Kings would take him. That pretty much leaves him with the Clippers, Mavs, Celtics, and Sixers as possibilities. And the Sixers only if Butler and Harris sign elsewhere.

So, yes, it would be best for Boston if Durant re-signed with the Warriors and New York and Brooklyn decide they don’t want Irving near their young players unless he comes attached at the hip with a second star. Because Rivers/LA is Irving’s best bet to rehab his tarnished reputation, and Boston’s best shot at a sign & trade as even they’d want two stars and would prefer moving off Gallinari to get him.
If he ends up on the Clips via S&T with the Cs, you get a massive mea culpa from me. I was sure they would be able to open up cap space in other ways, but it does appear that a lot of those teams have already used it to take on bad contracts.
 

mcpickl

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So would it be Kyrie for Gallo and Lou Williams in a S and T? Clips sign Kawhi as a max FA, bring in another FA with their remaining cap space?

That would be a fun Celtics team, with both those deals expiring. If the team isn't playoff bound, both those guys would be great additions to contending teams at the deadline.
I can't imagine a scenario where Kawhi was willing to sign on to put up with Kyries' bullshit.

They'd be much better off chasing Horford.

If they could dump Gallo on to a team with space, they'd have room for Kawhi and Horford while keeping Beverley on his cap hold to re-sign him.

Having a closing lineup of Kawhi, Horford, Harrell, Beverley and Lou Williams would be pretty nice. And they'd still have SGA, Shamet, the room exception and veteran minimum ring chasers who'd like to live in LA for depth.

I hope it happens just to see both LA teams fight for the best veteran miminum guys.
 

luckiestman

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Kyrie walked the thousand gates of Fushimi Inari Taisha while contemplating his future and found peace with the idea of making Caris LeVert and Spencer Dinwiddie hate him
 

DrewDawg

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ESPN Radio tonight was talking about the “Did Kyrie call into Boston radio show?” thing.
 

Tony C

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Didn't Jordan slow down substantially last year...or was that just because he was with the Mavs?
 

Devizier

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While it would suck in all the important ways, Kyrie going to the Lakers would be the best outcome from a Shakespearean perspective.