Byerie Irving? Do you want Kyrie back?

What are your thoughts on Kyrie?

  • I want him back on max deal no matter what

    Votes: 60 19.5%
  • I want him back on max deal ONLY if AD is also coming

    Votes: 85 27.6%
  • I’m done with him and don’t want him back under any circumstances

    Votes: 109 35.4%
  • Not sure - I want to see how the playoffs go first

    Votes: 54 17.5%

  • Total voters
    308
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nighthob

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Kyrie doesn't want a 1+1 anyway, right? He would be looking to be a FA in the summer of 2021 when he is eligible for 10 year player contract.
Yeah, I've always assumed that his next deal was going to be a three year with an ETO. Especially in a situation where he'd be committing his future to Klutch (here in Boston with AD).
 

DrewDawg

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I'm likely missing something but if he wants to be a FA in summer of 2021 wouldn't a 1+1 get him there if he opts in for 2nd year? A 3 year deal wouldn't--that would put him in 2022.

But NBA has all these weird rules, so...
 

DrewDawg

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Forsberg:

Might Irving be more inclined now to sign, say, a short-term 1-and-1 deal in Boston and then both he and Durant could reevaluate their respective futures after the 2019-20 season?
That would leave an awful lot riding on the 2019-20 season for the Celtics, who could potentially be trying to sell both Irving and Davis on a long-term future here with the potential that both could bolt if things went awry. That said, it’s probably a dice roll that Danny Ainge is willing to make.
 

BJBossman

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Dec 6, 2016
257
Kyrie doesn't want a 1+1 anyway, right? He would be looking to be a FA in the summer of 2021 when he is eligible for 10 year player contract.
I'd take him for 2 years and if Davis left next summer, you trade Kyrie and kickstart the rebuild. But at least you give yourself a chance to keep both like OKC with George and giving yourself one heck of a sales pitch like the Raptors with Kawhi right now.
 

scottyno

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These are fine. Nothing I inherently disagree with. But that also wasn't the question. The question wasn't what could danny have forseen.

The point was that the move, while it made some sense (the brooklyn pick was too much for the gap between KI and IT at the time, KI became a much better player under Brad than he ever was in CLE), but it's also fact that it cost you Brow because of the restrictions in place. And Danny had been eyeing Brow ever before the KI trade, that had been reported before. That's why he was saving his treasure trove of picks and not using them for Jimmy Butler or Paul George. He was already eyeing Brow.
There was a massive massive gap between IT and Kyrie at the time, though we as fans didn't know it I think it's pretty clear that the Cs did know it, plus they were getting an extra year. You make that trade every chance you get if your goal is to win a title.
 

BJBossman

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Dec 6, 2016
257
There was a massive massive gap between IT and Kyrie at the time, though we as fans didn't know it I think it's pretty clear that the Cs did know it, plus they were getting an extra year. You make that trade every chance you get if your goal is to win a title.
Again. Logic is fine.

Reality is it cost you a prime asset for getting Kawhi AND it legitimately prevented you from getting AD due to the restrictions where you can't have 2 of those special designation players on the roster.

And it absolutely destroyed the locker room.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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Again. Logic is fine.

Reality is it cost you a prime asset for getting Kawhi AND it legitimately prevented you from getting AD due to the restrictions where you can't have 2 of those special designation players on the roster.

And it absolutely destroyed the locker room.
1. Assuming you don't have contacts in the Celtics front-office, we don't know what the Celtics cost was for getting Kawhi - that pick might have helped or maybe it didn't make difference.

2. Again, assuming you aren't close to the team, what is your basis for saying the Irving trade "absolutely destroyed the locker room"? I know we've seen Irving have issues with some of his teammates but that stuff happens in every walk of life and especially pro sports. We have also seen reports of beef between other veterans and the younger guys which is also not uncommon. I am curious what your basis is for saying Irving was the main culprit behind the team's bad chemistry issues.
 

scottyno

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Again. Logic is fine.

Reality is it cost you a prime asset for getting Kawhi AND it legitimately prevented you from getting AD due to the restrictions where you can't have 2 of those special designation players on the roster.

And it absolutely destroyed the locker room.
Reality is it cost them the #8 pick, which really isn't that prime an asset. Sure it could have been a prime asset and many expected it to be, but by the time Kawhi was moved it wasn't.

It also probably increased their chances of getting AD, at least long term, if his goal is was to be paired with another star and compete for titles.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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Mar 26, 2005
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Again. Logic is fine.

Reality is it cost you a prime asset for getting Kawhi AND it legitimately prevented you from getting AD due to the restrictions where you can't have 2 of those special designation players on the roster.

And it absolutely destroyed the locker room.
Hindsight is 50-50
 

BJBossman

lurker
Dec 6, 2016
257
Reality is it cost them the #8 pick, which really isn't that prime an asset. Sure it could have been a prime asset and many expected it to be, but by the time Kawhi was moved it wasn't.

It also probably increased their chances of getting AD, at least long term, if his goal is was to be paired with another star and compete for titles.
the pick was good enough to be dealt for Kemba Walker before LeBron scuttled it by not committing to CLE before the draft.
 

nighthob

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Jul 15, 2005
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Perhaps you should provide a link to prove your assertion, because Charlotte wasn't trading Kemba within the conference for a mid-lottery draft pick.
In fairness to him he has the timeline mixed up. That draft happened after LeBron's last season. There were rampant rumours earlier in the season about the Cavs trading the Brooklyn pick for someone (Walker and everyone else rumoured to be on the market), but the hangup was supposed to be that James refused to commit to the Cavs. So they decided to give it one last shot and then rebuild. After the fact the pick ended up being #8.
 

RedOctober3829

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Jul 19, 2005
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deep inside Guido territory

Celtics' Kyrie Irving is not opting into his $21.3 million deal for next season and will become a free agent eligible to sign a new contract with Boston or elsewhere, league sources tell @TheAthleticNBA @Stadium.

Not unexpected at all, but official now.


Boston has expected this ahead of Irving’s option date on Thursday. For Irving, it is an opt-in so no paperwork necessary to enter free agency
 

lexrageorge

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In fairness to him he has the timeline mixed up. That draft happened after LeBron's last season. There were rampant rumours earlier in the season about the Cavs trading the Brooklyn pick for someone (Walker and everyone else rumoured to be on the market), but the hangup was supposed to be that James refused to commit to the Cavs. So they decided to give it one last shot and then rebuild. After the fact the pick ended up being #8.
Thanks. And I think we both agree that there is a huge difference between Cleveland's willingness to shop the Brooklyn pick, and Charlotte actually agreeing to take it in return for trading Walker to the Cavs. Especially as it was fairly clear early that season that the Nets would not be one of the league's bottom 5 teams.
 

BJBossman

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Dec 6, 2016
257
Perhaps you should provide a link to prove your assertion, because Charlotte wasn't trading Kemba within the conference for a mid-lottery draft pick.
Perhaps you shouldn't be so damn lazy.

But here, just once cause you obviously need help for something that was widely reported.



now admit you were wrong and just go away.
 

lexrageorge

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Perhaps you shouldn't be so damn lazy.

But here, just once cause you obviously need help for something that was widely reported.



now admit you were wrong and just go away.
Actually, I'm not going away. The fact that my presence here bothers you is not my fucking problem, lurker troll.

Saying the Cavs would have traded the pick for Walker is different than saying Charlotte would have done that trade. I remain skeptical.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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Perhaps you shouldn't be so damn lazy.

But here, just once cause you obviously need help for something that was widely reported.



now admit you were wrong and just go away.
Those articles don't say a trade would have happened. Lowe reported that the Cavs had Walker as a target and would have used the pick to get him. Because it was a "league sources" story, there are no other details about other pieces and, most importantly, because the trade was never consummated, you cannot definitively state that the eighth pick would have netted Kemba Walker. Anecdotes aren't data.

Also, I am still waiting to hear about your sources on how Kyrie "absolutely destroyed the locker room".
 

BJBossman

lurker
Dec 6, 2016
257
Actually, I'm not going away. The fact that my presence here bothers you is not my fucking problem, lurker troll.

Saying the Cavs would have traded the pick for Walker is different than saying Charlotte would have done that trade. I remain skeptical.
you are just not worth it.
 

cheech13

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Jan 5, 2006
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There were multiple reports from Woj and Zach Lowe last summer that the Cavs and Hornets had engaged in talks on a Walker/#8 swap. That wasn't baseless messageboard chatter. The fact that it didn't happen could have been because of Lebron leaving, or because Cavs didn't have the assets. We don't know why it didn't happen but the framework of a deal was at least there. It's worth discussing.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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There were multiple reports from Woj and Zach Lowe last summer that the Cavs and Hornets had engaged in talks on a Walker/#8 swap. That wasn't baseless messageboard chatter. The fact that it didn't happen could have been because of Lebron leaving, or because Cavs didn't have the assets. We don't know why it didn't happen but the framework of a deal was at least there. It's worth discussing.
Its absolutely worth discussing. However the trade never happened so using a transaction that didn't occur - and where the details such as what other pieces (e.g. picks, expirings) would have been involved are material - as the basis to go at someone is silly. We go further down the rabbit hole when the poster makes the case that the pick dealt for Irving definitely cost the Celtics the chance to get another player.
 

the moops

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If that deal was a reality, I am unsure why CLE would balk at it regardless of Lebron's willingness to stay. Kemba Walker is a far greater asset than the #8 pick in the draft
 

cheech13

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If that deal was a reality, I am unsure why CLE would balk at it regardless of Lebron's willingness to stay. Kemba Walker is a far greater asset than the #8 pick in the draft
He was a pending free agent with just one year left on his deal. Cleveland would have been giving up it's only asset (the #8 pick) for one year of Kemba Walker at the start of a long-term rebuild. That wouldn't have made any sense given where they were last summer after Lebron bailed.
 

the moops

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He was signed through this year, so they would have had him for an additional year. I don't know, Kemba Walker on a 12 million a year deal coikd have been flipped pretty easily for a similar asset if LeBron left and Kemba showed no interest in resigning
 

cheech13

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He was signed through this year, so they would have had him for an additional year. I don't know, Kemba Walker on a 12 million a year deal coikd have been flipped pretty easily for a similar asset if LeBron left and Kemba showed no interest in resigning
I think your timeline is off. This was a deal being discussed at last year's draft and he's a free agent this summer. That's one year. Had they tried to send him out at last year's deadline I think the return would have been less than a top 8 pick in this year's draft.
 

djbayko

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Jul 18, 2005
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Perhaps you shouldn't be so damn lazy.

But here, just once cause you obviously need help for something that was widely reported.
...
now admit you were wrong and just go away.
you are just not worth it.
Be better than this. This isn’t Reddit.

You seem to be taking this way too personally. Attack the post, not the poster.
 
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mauf

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Perhaps you shouldn't be so damn lazy.

But here, just once cause you obviously need help for something that was widely reported.



now admit you were wrong and just go away.
The next time you participate in a discussion on this site (because you’re done with this one), you need to do better.
 

the moops

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I think your timeline is off. This was a deal being discussed at last year's draft and he's a free agent this summer. That's one year. Had they tried to send him out at last year's deadline I think the return would have been less than a top 8 pick in this year's draft.
Ahh. My bad. Thought it was trade deadline last year.
 

jon abbey

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Woj just said he's going with ROC Nation. So Nets here he comes?
Yeah, he's definitely going to Brooklyn, the team Jay-Z used to own part of before he sold it when he started ROC Nation.

(just my educated guess, if that's not clear)
 

jon abbey

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And didn't know this, but it's not surprising:

"Brooklyn Nets CEO Brett Yoarmark’s twin brother, Michael, is ROC Nation’s President."
 

Lazy vs Crazy

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Durant is also with ROC nation. His agent, Rich Kleiman, is a big Knicks guy, so this could also mean the Knicks.

Mostly it means Kyrie is gone though.
 

jon abbey

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I don’t think they can play together, Russell will go if Kyrie comes IMO.
 

CreedBratton

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We'll have a competitive team next year that's young and easy to root for.

I can deal with that after the Jack Parkman era.
No guarantee about a competitive team right now but lots of time this summer to fix that. Addition by subtraction with Kyrie gone but 3 draft picks that need to be traded as this draft is awful.
 

jon abbey

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Kleiman left ROC Nation to manage KD.
I tried to research this earlier and the best info I can find was that he is fully dedicated to Durant, he is his only client, but he is still associated with ROC Nation, and Durant is still listed on their client list.

"Kleiman, who started out exclusively repping musicians, was then hired by Durant in 2013 as his agent. In 2015, Kleiman sought Jay-Z’s approval to drop his Roc Nation client list and solely focus on Durant, and stepped down from the VP position at Roc Nation Sports.

Both Durant and Kleiman remained under the Roc Nation umbrella, but their joint ventures are independent entities."

 
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