Byerie Irving? Do you want Kyrie back?

What are your thoughts on Kyrie?

  • I want him back on max deal no matter what

    Votes: 60 19.5%
  • I want him back on max deal ONLY if AD is also coming

    Votes: 85 27.6%
  • I’m done with him and don’t want him back under any circumstances

    Votes: 109 35.4%
  • Not sure - I want to see how the playoffs go first

    Votes: 54 17.5%

  • Total voters
    308
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Nick Kaufman

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What's the advantage of hiring an agent associated with the team you want to to? Tampering? Because if anything you make the chances of being screwed higher.
 

DrewDawg

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Just random twitter person, but he's paraphrasing Woj's comments from earlier: https://twitter.com/MPleasing72/status/1139151916653584384

Woj said on Get Up that Kyrie switching agents probably won’t affect his free agency and that he’ll know what he wants. Also mentioned that the Nets are in a great position to land him and that Boston was on Kyrie’s list of preferred trade destinations in 2017 fwiw
Eh. Maybe it won't affect it, it's just signaling it.
 

RedOctober3829

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“According to a source with ties to Roc Nation, the organization expected to become Irving’s new representative, the All-Star point guard is prepared to sign with the Brooklyn Nets when he becomes a free agent next month. A separate league source told the Herald that his team (not the Celtics) has received the same information and is operating under the belief that Irving wants to join the Nets.
Word is that the Celtics, meanwhile, had not been given any definitive indication from Irving as of Thursday afternoon.”

 

lovegtm

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According to a source with ties to Roc Nation, the organization expected to become Irving’s new representative, the All-Star point guard is prepared to sign with the Brooklyn Nets when he becomes a free agent next month. A separate league source told the Herald that his team (not the Celtics) has received the same information and is operating under the belief that Irving wants to join the Nets.
Word is that the Celtics, meanwhile, had not been given any definitive indication from Irving as of Thursday afternoon.

With the massive if he actually does it caveat, this would be a pretty big black mark for Danny. His roster redundancies last year (and failure to address them at the deadline) would have driven Kyrie to a situation that's not really better than that of the Celtics in any way. (This is all speaking post KD injury, and with the assumption that he isn't bringing another big FA with him. In the latter case, it makes a lot of sense).
 

TripleOT

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I was told yesterday by a good friend who had just spoken with a higher up in the Celtics organization that Kyri’s is leaving. He was also told that the team will make a play for AD, even without a commitment of an extension
 

jsinger121

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I was told yesterday by a good friend who had just spoken with a higher up in the Celtics organization that Kyri’s is leaving. He was also told that the team will make a play for AD, even without a commitment of an extension
Massively stupid if they go all in for AD without an extension. Expect this team to be a lottery team for the next 5 plus years after they lose Davis.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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Massively stupid if they go all in for AD without an extension. Expect this team to be a lottery team for the next 5 plus years after they lose Davis.
If Irving is, indeed, gone, is it really worse to go all-in on Davis than to roll with the young core like some people here are advocating?

I don't know the answer, of course. However I think people are vastly overrating what the Celtics have left if Irving goes and they "replace" him with Rozier (or someone else).

Tatum may yet become a star but its safe to say there is less optimism about him than there was a year ago given some of the tendencies he showed this year. Jaylen Brown had a good second half of the season and he projects as a solid third or fourth option on a contending team unless he makes a leap that seems more like wishcasting than something projectable.

Neither yet projects to fill the scoring void that was already evident even with Irving on the roster and the C's are a bit hamstrung in their ability to source a scorer who is either elite enough to overcome their defensive limitations or isn't a complete turnstile on defense.

What's left is a roster that is probably good for a six to eight seed assuming everyone plays as well as they did this past season. Then you have a scenario where Tatum and/or Brown plateaus and their overall value is diminished and the C's are stuck in a Heat-like purgatory which we all would have taken ~ six years ago but will feel much worse given recent expectations around this team.

Again, I don't know the answer but I would absolutely trade Tatum+ for a season of Davis at this point. The alternatives seem far less palatable even if conceptually people feel like rooting for the youngsters seems more fun.
 

Light-Tower-Power

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I’m an irrational Terry Rozier fan so I wouldn’t be upset if Danny signed him. I think a focused Rozier who doesn’t have to worry about his role alongside GH playing some point-forward wouldn’t be the worst thing. I’m not even sure who else on the market would be a viable Kyrie replacement.
 

OurF'ingCity

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If Irving is, indeed, gone, is it really worse to go all-in on Davis than to roll with the young core like some people here are advocating?

I don't know the answer, of course. However I think people are vastly overrating what the Celtics have left if Irving goes and they "replace" him with Rozier (or someone else).

Tatum may yet become a star but its safe to say there is less optimism about him than there was a year ago given some of the tendencies he showed this year. Jaylen Brown had a good second half of the season and he projects as a solid third or fourth option on a contending team unless he makes a leap that seems more like wishcasting than something projectable.

Neither yet projects to fill the scoring void that was already evident even with Irving on the roster and the C's are a bit hamstrung in their ability to source a scorer who is either elite enough to overcome their defensive limitations or isn't a complete turnstile on defense.

What's left is a roster that is probably good for a six to eight seed assuming everyone plays as well as they did this past season. Then you have a scenario where Tatum and/or Brown plateaus and their overall value is diminished and the C's are stuck in a Heat-like purgatory which we all would have taken ~ six years ago but will feel much worse given recent expectations around this team.

Again, I don't know the answer but I would absolutely trade Tatum+ for a season of Davis at this point. The alternatives seem far less palatable even if conceptually people feel like rooting for the youngsters seems more fun.
I completely agree and made the same point somewhere else - I think in the AD thread. I think the resistance to an AD trade if Kyrie leaves comes down to (1) memories of the ECF team from a year ago and (2) the fact that people like rooting for young players with lots of upside in general and Tatum and Brown in particular. #1 I think is a bit misleading as has been discussed elsewhere as that team just seemed to catch lightning in a bottle and the East has gotten a lot stronger at the top since then (somewhat ironically given LeBron's departure). #2 really comes down to personal preference as to whether you are more of a "championship or bust" person or you are willing to somewhat reduce the C's chances at a championship in exchange for rooting for players you enjoy watching, so I can't really take issue with those who come down on the latter side (personally I fall more on the former side, and if history is any indication, Aigne & Co. do as well).
 

nighthob

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If Irving is, indeed, gone, is it really worse to go all-in on Davis than to roll with the young core like some people here are advocating?
I think what most of us are indicating is that it's a far better bet to go back to accumulating assets and shooting for a player that you have for more than one year. Right now the presence of Hayward is a severe limitation on surrounding Davis with sufficient talent.
 

CreedBratton

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I think what most of us are indicating is that it's a far better bet to go back to accumulating assets and shooting for a player that you have for more than one year. Right now the presence of Hayward is a severe limitation on surrounding Davis with sufficient talent.
But there’s no guarantee of keeping any superstar for more than a season. Pretty much all demand a trade with a year remaining on their contract. No one is demanding a trade 4 years in advance so they are gonna roll the dice on someone at some point.

The only player better then AD that might somehow become available in the foreseeable future is Giannis & I’m gonna go ahead & guess that the Bucks won’t trade him to the Celtics. Tatum will never be as good as Anthony Davis & they will have a real shot at a championship next season with him. Do it.
 

nighthob

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And then you're the Miami Heat, capped out and full of roleplayers. I mean sure, your postseason might last six games into the second round rather than five, but it's a trade with pretty close to zero upside.
 

Red Averages

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People vastly underrated how good a team of Smart, Hayward, Brown, Horford, and Davis would be. That’s the best defense in the league and frankly if two years past injury Hayward improves to what we saw at the end of the regular season a very challenging offense to stop. Plus with all the picks and possible sign & trades, a lot of potential to build out the rest of the roster
 

OurF'ingCity

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And then you're the Miami Heat, capped out and full of roleplayers. I mean sure, your postseason might last six games into the second round rather than five, but it's a trade with pretty close to zero upside.
Oh, come on. There’s “zero upside” to trading for Anthony fucking Davis? The “upside” is that he gives them the best chance to win a championship next year - flags (or in this case banners) fly forever. And that’s putting aside the chance that, after a year in Boston, Davis reconsiders his apparent desire to join the Lakers and the Cs are able to sign him long-term.

No one is arguing there isn’t downside risk to such a trade as well, but to suggest there is no upside is ridiculous.
 

BaseballJones

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Definitely upside. But massive downside, especially if, as his agent has indicated, he is absolutely, 100% going to free agency, no matter who gets traded to. Doesn't mean Boston couldn't re-sign him, and they would have the "home team" advantage in that situation from a $$ perspective, but still, they'd be giving up a potential future all-star plus an important draft pick, plus whatever else they'd need to in order to make the salaries line up in order to get him. If all they got was one year of AD and a losing trip to the NBA finals (which would be a great year, of course), that's still a net loss long term, by a country mile. And I'd say that this downside has a significantly greater chance of happening than the upside.

But Danny has huge cajones and generally makes the right play so....who knows?
 

mcpickl

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I am no to Terry. I think Beverly gives you more.
I agree with this, but you have Bird rights and RFA rights on Rozier and might not even have the cap space for Beverley, even before getting to would Boston be his first choice.
 

nighthob

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Oh, come on. There’s “zero upside” to trading for Anthony fucking Davis? The “upside” is that he gives them the best chance to win a championship next year - flags (or in this case banners) fly forever. And that’s putting aside the chance that, after a year in Boston, Davis reconsiders his apparent desire to join the Lakers and the Cs are able to sign him long-term.

No one is arguing there isn’t downside risk to such a trade as well, but to suggest there is no upside is ridiculous.
OK, if Leonard leaves the conference then you will make the ECF (assuming that you don’t have to go through Milwaukee to get there). But Davis signaled his intentions when he hired LeBron’s agency to manage him. So, yeah, not a lot of upside when you actually have no time to surround Davis with talent. You’re praying for injuries to clear a path for you.
 

nighthob

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People vastly underrated how good a team of Smart, Hayward, Brown, Horford, and Davis would be. That’s the best defense in the league and frankly if two years past injury Hayward improves to what we saw at the end of the regular season a very challenging offense to stop. Plus with all the picks and possible sign & trades, a lot of potential to build out the rest of the roster
The Davis tradekicker means that one of Smart, Horford, or Hayward are going to be needed to make the money work. There are ways to make Horford serve the role if he agrees to pick up his option, Houston agrees to help, and New Orleans agrees to take Shumpert to make the money work.

And a deal where Boston is sending out Tatum/Horford/#1 pick (and not the Memphis one) is one I can live with because at least they still have something to rebuild with after Browexit.

(EDIT: Tatum/Capela/Shumpert to New Orleans and Horford/pick to Houston)
 

the moops

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You speak far too confidently in your hypotheticals. There are definitive ways to make the money work without having to include one of Horford, Smart, or Hayward. And Ainge would never give up Tatum, Horford, and a pick
 

DrewDawg

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You can make a 3 team trade work with Houston without including Tatum...and end up with AD and Eric Gordon.
 

bsj

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I know that if kyrie goes it’s not like we get his cap number back, but do we get anything from it? If we get Davis and horford and kyrie go, don’t we at least have the $ for another significant player?
 

lovegtm

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I know that if kyrie goes it’s not like we get his cap number back, but do we get anything from it? If we get Davis and horford and kyrie go, don’t we at least have the $ for another significant player?
Cap holds are no fun, my friend.
 

cheech13

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I know that if kyrie goes it’s not like we get his cap number back, but do we get anything from it? If we get Davis and horford and kyrie go, don’t we at least have the $ for another significant player?
Nope, you get nothing for it. Boston will operate as an over the cap team and when Kyrie signs elsewhere his cap hold will be off the books, but they'll still be over the cap. The only way to "preserve" that Kyrie cap figure would be to wrap his departure into a sign and trade and get back a TPE or another player, but sign and trades are extremely rare in the current CBA. There's really no incentive for the trading team or departing player to want to do it and they're difficult to construct under current cap rules anyway.
 

bsj

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Nope, you get nothing for it. Boston will operate as an over the cap team and when Kyrie signs elsewhere his cap hold will be off the books, but they'll still be over the cap. The only way to "preserve" that Kyrie cap figure would be to wrap his departure into a sign and trade and get back a TPE or another player, but sign and trades are extremely rare in the current CBA. There's really no incentive for the trading team or departing player to want to do it and they're difficult to construct under current cap rules anyway.
and nothing then for the horford money either?
 

cheech13

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and nothing then for the horford money either?
If Horford alone walked you'd be in the same situation described above (losing the cap hold but still over the cap). If Kyrie and Horford both walked they could actually open up a decent amount of cap space. They could even conceivably get to a max slot if they renounced everybody, including Morris and Rozier, and dumped a couple of contracts. That wouldn't be a very likely scenario but I guess anything is possible.

Active roster cap today is $123MM+/-, but $51MM+/- of that is in Kyrie and Horford's options that they'll likely decline. Lose them both and you're sitting at $82MM+/-, plus incomplete roster charges and the holds for their three draft picks. Next year's cap is expected to come in around $109MM.
 
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mcpickl

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I know that if kyrie goes it’s not like we get his cap number back, but do we get anything from it? If we get Davis and horford and kyrie go, don’t we at least have the $ for another significant player?
No.

Say you gut your roster enough that you only have AD, Hayward, Smart, Jaylen, Baynes, Ojeleye and Robert Williams.

That would put you around 96M(assuming AD doesn't waive his trade kicker) even if you traded away all the first round draft picks, stuffed Yabusele into the AD trade with Tatum, and let everyone else go.

You'd have about 13M to throw at a free agent. Maybe that gets you a Nikola Mirotic. Then you'd be able to sign one more guy for a max of around 4.5M with the room exception. The rest of the roster would have to be guys signed at the minimum.

That's not a good team. AD walks 100% after one season on that squad.

If the Celtics aren't an over the cap team this summer, it would be shocking.
 

djbayko

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See, this is what I don't understand. He wants to be the leader of his own team, but he can't handle a little adversity, which is especially frustrating because the common denominator across all of that adversity appears to be...Kyrie Irving. Sack the fuck up. Take the summer to meditate and come back with a fresh attitude - mea culpa with the "kids" on Day 1. I assure you, they'll be doing the same as no one wants to go through another tumultuous season. Hell, pull a Tom Brady and invite a couple of them to work out with you to see if you can forge a closer connection.

AD can be coming to the rescue if you're willing to commit, and by the way, that means that at least one of those youngsters you don't get along with won't be here next year.
 

DrewDawg

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By the way, the Nets average age is younger than Boston.

So he has that going for him. Which is nice.
 

Captaincoop

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See, this is what I don't understand. He wants to be the leader of his own team, but he can't handle a little adversity, which is especially frustrating because the common denominator across all of that adversity appears to be...Kyrie Irving. Sack the fuck up. Take the summer to meditate and come back with a fresh attitude - mea culpa with the "kids" on Day 1. I assure you, they'll be doing the same as no one wants to go through another tumultuous season. Hell, pull a Tom Brady and invite a couple of them to work out with you to see if you can forge a closer connection.

AD can be coming to the rescue if you're willing to commit, and by the way, that means that at least one of those youngsters you don't get along with won't be here next year.
That's all totally logical, which is why it's the opposite of whatever Kyrie Irving is thinking.
 

DrewDawg

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That's all totally logical, which is why it's the opposite of whatever Kyrie Irving is thinking.
He's this weird mix of completely stubborn, or able to be swayed by who talks to him last.

I feel like he's either 100% gone, or Ainge could text him 5 minutes before he signs with NJ and says "Kyrie, please come back. The Garden will chant MVP for you every game" and he would.
 

thehitcat

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I think I'm ready for Danny to let Kyrie walk and leave Davis for someone else. I'd like to see this team next year with Brown, Tatum, Smart, Hayward, Horford and a point guard. I think this will he/won't he crap isn't the only way to a championship even if it is the quickest way.
 

Imbricus

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I think though that wherever Kyrie goes, he'll have problems there too. With his teammates, his coach, whatever. I don't recall a lot of Cavs lining up to wish him a teary goodbye when he left Cleveland. I think he's just a difficult, odd, moody personality, a guy who marches to the beat of his own drummer and who isn't a natural leader though seems to desperately want to be.
 

lovegtm

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I think though that wherever Kyrie goes, he'll have problems there too. With his teammates, his coach, whatever. I don't recall a lot of Cavs lining up to wish him a teary goodbye when he left Cleveland. I think he's just a difficult, odd, moody personality, a guy who marches to the beat of his own drummer and who isn't a natural leader though seems to desperately want to be.
Sounds about right, although I'd still rather have him, especially on a vet team. It's been said a lot, but it really, really sucks that Hayward got hurt. Kyrie clearly thought of him as a peer, and when that was gone, a lot of other interpersonal stuff seemed to get worse.
 

chilidawg

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Love what JT said: "Everyone wanted to make it work but it seems like no one knew how to do it." That's the Cs season in one sentence, notwithstanding the thousands of virtual pages that has been written on the subject.
Doesn't that say at least as much about the coaching as about Kyrie?
 

DrewDawg

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Doesn't that say at least as much about the coaching as about Kyrie?
Sure...and in fairness the poster didn't say it was about Kyrie---he said the team. I think Stevens will admit he didn't do his best job this year. However in one of the articles posted here, apparently after the final Milwaukee loss, Stevens apologized to the team and Kyrie said "Coach, it wasn't you."

So, who knows. Clean with fire I guess.
 

The_Powa_of_Seiji_Ozawa

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I think I'm ready for Danny to let Kyrie walk and leave Davis for someone else. I'd like to see this team next year with Brown, Tatum, Smart, Hayward, Horford and a point guard. I think this will he/won't he crap isn't the only way to a championship even if it is the quickest way.
I think in that scenario you also get the real Brad Stevens back.
 

jon abbey

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I think though that wherever Kyrie goes, he'll have problems there too. With his teammates, his coach, whatever. I don't recall a lot of Cavs lining up to wish him a teary goodbye when he left Cleveland. I think he's just a difficult, odd, moody personality, a guy who marches to the beat of his own drummer and who isn't a natural leader though seems to desperately want to be.
I feel like someone could have written this exact post about Kawhi and the Spurs (except maybe the desperately wants to be part), although obviously Kawhi is a better overall player than Kyrie.

That being said, I don't really get why the Nets are going after him so hard when it means they will lose Russell. Kyrie is a notch better in a vacuum, but Russell is younger and his personality is less odd and the two cannot co-exist basketball-wise, so this doesn't make sense to me unless they can get assets back for Russell (unclear currently) or Kyrie brings another superstar along with him (also unclear currently).
 

bankshot1

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Is D'Angelo Russell wiling to play the part of Rozier and be KI's understudy?

KI's a diva, I'd rather have a point guard who's got a better handle on maturity and the ability to play team ball..

I switched my vote from "not sure" to "done"

I'm tired of KI's all me all the time bullshit.
 

RedOctober3829

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Is D'Angelo Russell wiling to play the part of Rozier and be KI's understudy?

KI's a diva, I'd rather have a point guard who's got a better handle on maturity and the ability to play team ball..

I switched my vote from "not sure" to "done"

I'm tired of KI's all me all the time bullshit.
If Kyrie goes to Brooklyn, D-Lo will not be there. They can not go-exist together. D-Lobis an established star. Now, I think he could play with Oladipo in Indiana. Oladipo is better suited to play off the ball and they could mesh well together.
 

Trotski

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I don't understand the NBA cap at all, but assuming Kyrie leaves, they resign AL for 4/120 or whatever it is and they don't trade for AD, could they make a run at Kemba Walker? I mean, Tatum, Brown, Horford, Hayward, Smart, Walker is a pretty solid top 6.
 

Three10toLeft

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I don't understand the NBA cap at all, but assuming Kyrie leaves, they resign AL for 4/120 or whatever it is and they don't trade for AD, could they make a run at Kemba Walker? I mean, Tatum, Brown, Horford, Hayward, Smart, Walker is a pretty solid top 6.
The Celtics are at/over the cap if Kyrie leaves. The only reason they can resign him is because you're allowed to exceed the cap if you're resigning your own player. Otherwise their hands are tied when it comes to signing a max player.
 

PedroKsBambino

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I believe, and some folks here know the cap better than I do these days, there's some options for Celts...though not cheap ones.

For example, they could trade a pick to the team Kyrie wants to sign with to make it a sign & trade, and create a trade exception. They could then trade for a player into that exception (which could, in theory, be Kemba via a separate sign and trade, or anyone with a big contract). The cost here is likely high because the signing team has no incentive to play along except the value of hte pick they get. But it's an option, isn't it?
 

bankshot1

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If Kyrie goes to Brooklyn, D-Lo will not be there. They can not go-exist together. D-Lobis an established star. Now, I think he could play with Oladipo in Indiana. Oladipo is better suited to play off the ball and they could mesh well together.
I posed the D'Angelo question with some self-interest in mind, with the thought whether the Celts and Nets could come to a meeting of the minds within the maze that is the NBA cap rules, (and probably involving a tasty pick+ going to Boerum Hill) about swapping PGs. After all we do have a shared history...
 
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