76ers 2019-2020

benhogan

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Brown would go in a snap before Simmons if the choice were between the two.
Love Simmons but also love Brown's development...JB keeps growing every season

I'd do that deal since Simmon's defense is far superior but would be interested in knowing what BS wants to work on every summer. I'm not even talking about 3pt shooting with Ben. I'd want him working on those stop in the lane pull up 10ft shots (that Giannis/Hayward are so good at). He has shown legit growth at the FT line every season, so I'd be optimistic.

In the same breath, I could see if someone pointed to Jaylen's growth every season and his complimentary nature to Tatum/Kemba offensively. Simmons is pretty ball-dominant which CBS could adjust KWs usage. Anyways not happening, but interesting to kick around during the stoppage.
 

HowBoutDemSox

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Love Simmons but also love Brown's development...JB keeps growing every season

I'd do that deal since Simmon's defense is far superior but would be interested in knowing what BS wants to work on every summer. I'm not even talking about 3pt shooting with Ben. I'd want him working on those stop in the lane pull up 10ft shots (that Giannis/Hayward are so good at). He has shown legit growth at the FT line every season, so I'd be optimistic.

In the same breath, I could see if someone pointed to Jaylen's growth every season and his complimentary nature to Tatum/Kemba offensively. Simmons is pretty ball-dominant which CBS could adjust KWs usage. Anyways not happening, but interesting to kick around during the stoppage.
I think he meant Brett Brown, and “JB” was referring to Jimmy Butler.
 

Euclis20

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At this point I think the best case scenario for this season would be a 2-3 week "pre-season" following by the playoffs starting immediately, with the current standings. It's fun to dream about, but who knows? Maybe Kemba and Simmons are 100% healed, or maybe Tatum will go three months between touching a ball and Embiid will weigh 300 pounds from main-lining shirley temples. It'd be a wonderful clash of styles that I'd pay to see.
 

benhogan

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Watching the 76ers play the Pacers without Brogdon/Sabonia. This team is a complete enigma.

I want Phila to be the 5th seed and have the C's get the Pacers in round 1 but maybe I'm wrong?

If I was starting a team and had Simmons I'd make him the PG on offense and the 5 on defense. Surround him with wings that can shoot and play D
 

jhp64

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The 76ers have been bad on the road all season, so in their minds, are these home games or away games? Their road problems are obviously not something easy or they would have fixed them before going 10-25. Can they fix them in the next few weeks?
 

Nator

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They got bailed out big time tonight thanks to Shake Milton hitting a big three pointer tonight, but they were just a frantic clunky mess down the stretch. Their roster is just so awkward, and they are coached by a complete nincompoop.
 

DeadlySplitter

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Simmons suffered a partially dislocated kneecap, out indefinitely.


On a separate note, I guess we moved on from Horford at the right time after all? Milton started last night over him.
 

radsoxfan

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Probably knocked off a piece of cartilage, pretty common after a transient patellofemoral dislocation. May be from the recent occasion or a previous one (tends to be recurrent and happen more than once), don’t know if he’s ever had this instability before.

If the procedure is straightforward and he doesn’t need any other repairs might be back in 4 weeks (mainly due to the ligament damage from the dislocation, not just the loose body removal). They said no ligament damage but they probably mean ACL, PCL, MCL, LCL. He must have at least a sprain of his medial patellofemoral ligament if it was a legit recent subluxation/dislocation.

Would be a real stretch to return in August. Could need a more extensive surgery in the offseason depending on how bad his underlying abnormal patellar tracking is.
 

Jimbodandy

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around the way
Yeah, it wouldn’t shock me to see Embiid shut it down too if his ankle is at all worrisome.
Considering that he opted out of that game already with that bullshit ankle sprain (in the midst of a non-trivial 4-5-6 race), I think that the magic 8 ball would agree with you.
 

Euclis20

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Considering that he opted out of that game already with that bullshit ankle sprain (in the midst of a non-trivial 4-5-6 race), I think that the magic 8 ball would agree with you.
Maybe, although there's a pretty good argument to be made that considering there is no home court, it's better to be the 6 seed than 4 or 5. Regardless of who you get it in the first round, avoiding the Bucks in round 2 is a major selling point.
 

lovegtm

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4 more years of Harris and 2.5 of Horford, and up against the tax. Philly is cooked as a long-term contender unless they can find an amazing Embiid or Simmons trade to re-balance things.
 

benhogan

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4 more years of Harris and 2.5 of Horford, and up against the tax. Philly is cooked as a long-term contender unless they can find an amazing Embiid or Simmons trade to re-balance things.
a 4-game sweep to the Hayward-less Celtics is going to send 76ers ownership into a tizzy.
Bret Brown, a nice guy, is gone.

Nothing is off the table as far as trades with this group, they love to tinker and pull the trigger on big moves probably more than any other NBA team over the last few years.
Many head-scratching at the time or in retrospect.
 

DJnVa

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4 more years of Harris and 2.5 of Horford, and up against the tax. Philly is cooked as a long-term contender unless they can find an amazing Embiid or Simmons trade to re-balance things.
It's AMAZING how quickly things change. 13 months ago, Horford signed with Philly and the experts just KNEW that they would run things for a few years.
 

Saints Rest

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Who's the trade speculator expert around here? Can he/she proffer up some ideas where the Sixers could make a realistic trade of Embiid that improves their team? Or maybe going the other direction and trade Simmons? (My sense is that the consensus around here is that they should trade Embiid and build around Simmons, rather than vice-versa.)

Obviously, any such trade would have to be done where the other team would want to make that trade as well.
 

lovegtm

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Who's the trade speculator expert around here? Can he/she proffer up some ideas where the Sixers could make a realistic trade of Embiid that improves their team? Or maybe going the other direction and trade Simmons? (My sense is that the consensus around here is that they should trade Embiid and build around Simmons, rather than vice-versa.)

Obviously, any such trade would have to be done where the other team would want to make that trade as well.
Only thing off the top of my head is Embiid for Beal.

Edit: Embiid+Horford for Ingram, Jrue and some of the Lakers’ haul would be fascinating.
 
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benhogan

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Nov 2, 2007
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Who's the trade speculator expert around here? Can he/she proffer up some ideas where the Sixers could make a realistic trade of Embiid that improves their team? Or maybe going the other direction and trade Simmons? (My sense is that the consensus around here is that they should trade Embiid and build around Simmons, rather than vice-versa.)

Obviously, any such trade would have to be done where the other team would want to make that trade as well.
Simmons is the keeper.

love, srn & nighthob are pretty good for trade speculation

If the 76ers could get Beal for Embiid they should do that trade tomorrow before Game 3 and call it a season (and the Wizards might be willing to do that deal)

I'm not sure what the bid is for 5s on max deals, even Embiid.

maybe Utah with Gobert/Bog ++ gets the conversation going
 
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DJnVa

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Simmons is the keeper.

love, srn & nighthob are pretty good for trade speculation

If the 76ers could get Beal for Embiid they should do that trade tomorrow before Game 3 and call it a season (and the Wizards might be willing to do that deal)

I'm not sure what the bid is for 5s on max deals, even Embiid.

maybe Utah with Gobert/Bog ++ gets the conversation going
According to the ESPN Trade Machine that lowers both team's expected wins. Awesome.
 

Kliq

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Simmons is the keeper.

love, srn & nighthob are pretty good for trade speculation

If the 76ers could get Beal for Embiid they should do that trade tomorrow before Game 3 and call it a season (and the Wizards might be willing to do that deal)

I'm not sure what the bid is for 5s on max deals, even Embiid.

maybe Utah with Gobert/Bog ++ gets the conversation going
The Simmons jump shot thing is extraordinarily weird, but I think he is the keeper as well. Embiid can dominate at times, but I don't know if his conditioning is ever going to improve enough to justify him as the best player on a title winner. Either you can't rely on him for offense throughout the game or you have to hide him on defense to prevent him from gassing out. Throw in his injury history and some mental lapses he is a very flawed player. Simmons at least you know what you are getting a great defensive player and a interesting offensive player who doesn't need to take a ton of shots, and if he gets in a system outside of Embiid where he can have shooters I think he would be devastating.

They obviously miss Butler, but they also miss Redick. There is a difference between guys who are decent catch and shoot options, like Harris, Richardson, Milton, Korkmaz, etc. and a guy who is lethal coming off of screens and if you give him an inch of space it is going in. That kind of gravity provides a different kind of spacing that would make it easier for Embiid and others to operate inside. The Celtics will be happy to say "Let's double team Embiid and make Shake Milton beat us by shooting threes" but teams would never take that same kind of approach if Redick was the one shooting the open threes.
 

HowBoutDemSox

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I speculated before about a Simmons to Chicago deal, built around some combination of Lavine, Markkenan, Carter and/or White and picks, maybe some variant of it works with Embiid going instead of Simmons. Lavine and Markkenan as willing three point shooters could stretch the floor and make up for some of Simmons deficiencies there, and Chicago gets a bona fide star in Embiid to build around and get some excitement in the franchise.
 

lovegtm

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The Simmons jump shot thing is extraordinarily weird, but I think he is the keeper as well. Embiid can dominate at times, but I don't know if his conditioning is ever going to improve enough to justify him as the best player on a title winner. Either you can't rely on him for offense throughout the game or you have to hide him on defense to prevent him from gassing out. Throw in his injury history and some mental lapses he is a very flawed player. Simmons at least you know what you are getting a great defensive player and a interesting offensive player who doesn't need to take a ton of shots, and if he gets in a system outside of Embiid where he can have shooters I think he would be devastating.

They obviously miss Butler, but they also miss Redick. There is a difference between guys who are decent catch and shoot options, like Harris, Richardson, Milton, Korkmaz, etc. and a guy who is lethal coming off of screens and if you give him an inch of space it is going in. That kind of gravity provides a different kind of spacing that would make it easier for Embiid and others to operate inside. The Celtics will be happy to say "Let's double team Embiid and make Shake Milton beat us by shooting threes" but teams would never take that same kind of approach if Redick was the one shooting the open threes.
I will go to my grave believing that the Reddick/Butler team last year should have won the title.
 

lovegtm

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I speculated before about a Simmons to Chicago deal, built around some combination of Lavine, Markkenan, Carter and/or White and picks, maybe some variant of it works with Embiid going instead of Simmons. Lavine and Markkenan as willing three point shooters could stretch the floor and make up for some of Simmons deficiencies there, and Chicago gets a bona fide star in Embiid to build around and get some excitement in the franchise.
If the Sixers got Carter back in the deal too, I probably do that. Timeline is perfect, and suddenly Harris makes more sense.
 

benhogan

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I speculated before about a Simmons to Chicago deal, built around some combination of Lavine, Markkenan, Carter and/or White and picks, maybe some variant of it works with Embiid going instead of Simmons. Lavine and Markkenan as willing three point shooters could stretch the floor and make up for some of Simmons deficiencies there, and Chicago gets a bona fide star in Embiid to build around and get some excitement in the franchise.
this is pretty interesting for both sides
 

radsoxfan

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Losing Butler was definitely a killer. In today's NBA it's just too hard to win without REALLY good versatile wing play. An overpaid Tobias Harris and mediocrity just isn't going to cut it.

I like Embiid and Simmons both in their own ways, but a trade probably does make the most sense. Barring a miracle this year, I think they should be open to anything. Rather than picking one to trade, they should both be on the market and then decide which gets the best package and resultant fit.
 

ManicCompression

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This would prob never happen, but I've long thought Embiid for Jokic makes sense for both teams (works in trade machine, too).

- Sixers would have less spacing issues on offense because Jokic can shoot and the idea of him diming up a slashing Simmons the way he does Murray is basketball heaven. The ball wouldn't just stop with him the way it does Embiid, but this would require a coach who actually believes in motion on offense (aka not Brett Brown). On the other side of the ball, his defensive issues would be muted because he'd be next to a great PF defender in Simmons and other average to above average perimeter defenders (which he doesn't currently have in Denver).

- Denver would get a great defender who could make up for the inadequacies of Porter Jr and Murray on that side of the ball and Embiid would be able to play with much better spacing on offense. Denver would no longer get roasted in the P&R in the playoffs (look at what Utah is doing to Jokic this series) and I don't think the offense would suffer that much because of Porter's emergence (he and Jokic are just not a defensive combination you ever want to play).

Plus, they both have conditioning issues! Maybe if Embiid plays in that Denver altitude all year long, he'll finally train his lungs to work on the road in the playoffs.

The other version of this is something like Murray and Porter Jr for Simmons, but I don't think the Sixers do that.
 

Kliq

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No way Denver trades Jokic; the entire team is built around his passing and playmaking from the center position. If they were to trade him they would have to build an entirely new offense around Embiid who is a very different player.
 

ManicCompression

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I get that but he's only going to take them so far - he just can't be the best player on a team unless he's surrounded by world class perimeter defenders. I think it's easier for them to adjust their offense to Embiid than it would for them to get two way players at premium positions when they're capped out, have a cheap owner, and drafting in the 20s.

Like I said, it's not likely to happen, but it makes basketball sense to me.
 

lovegtm

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No way Denver trades Jokic; the entire team is built around his passing and playmaking from the center position. If they were to trade him they would have to build an entirely new offense around Embiid who is a very different player.
Yeah, but the defensive upgrade is so big you have to at least think about it. Gun to my head as Denver I probably do that deal. Embiid/Murray/MPJ is a really easy core to slot pieces around.
 

Kliq

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Yeah, but the defensive upgrade is so big you have to at least think about it. Gun to my head as Denver I probably do that deal. Embiid/Murray/MPJ is a really easy core to slot pieces around.
You won’t get me off my “Embiid is actually a bad defender hill.” His potential as a defender is immense, but his conditioning and mental lapses keep him from reaching a lot of that potential. I don’t think that outweighs all the positives that Jokic brings on offense.
 

Euclis20

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Yeah, but the defensive upgrade is so big you have to at least think about it. Gun to my head as Denver I probably do that deal. Embiid/Murray/MPJ is a really easy core to slot pieces around.
On the court it's probably a slightly better fit, but Embiid spends SO much less time on the court. They were both drafted in 2014, and even though Jokic was stashed in Europe for a year, he's played a whopping 172 more NBA games than Embiid. Even if we ignore Embiid's first two seasons which he missed entirely, he's missed 110 games over the last four years (Jokic missed 18 games over that same stretch, and just two games total over the last two years).

Their strengths and weaknesses are different, but overall they are pretty even talent wise. Even taking into account the potentially greater fit if they switch teams, no way I do this trade if I'm Denver. I'm not giving up the 1st or 2nd best center in the league in exchange for a guy who misses 20+ games annually, especially considering a big chunk of Embiid's value is in his athleticism which will fade as he ages (and probably faster than most, considering his injury history).
 

ManicCompression

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He certainly hasn't shown out in this series, but if his offensive load wasn't so large (he's literally the only option the Sixers have on offense) I think you'd see defensive improvement. No one goes 100% at both ends because you'd burn out early - look at Giannis, the way he plays limits him to 30 mins a game.

If Embiid got to lurk around the perimeter while Porter Jr. ISOs (which Embiid can't really do with Simmons) and take plays off here and there, you'd see better, more consistent effort on the defensive end. Or at least I'd hope because otherwise he's flushing a world of potential down the toilet.
 

BaseballJones

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4 more years of Harris and 2.5 of Horford, and up against the tax. Philly is cooked as a long-term contender unless they can find an amazing Embiid or Simmons trade to re-balance things.
Isn't that kind of amazing? Just a year or so ago they looked like they could be a top-tier franchise for years.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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They obviously miss Butler, but they also miss Redick. There is a difference between guys who are decent catch and shoot options, like Harris, Richardson, Milton, Korkmaz, etc. and a guy who is lethal coming off of screens and if you give him an inch of space it is going in. That kind of gravity provides a different kind of spacing that would make it easier for Embiid and others to operate inside. The Celtics will be happy to say "Let's double team Embiid and make Shake Milton beat us by shooting threes" but teams would never take that same kind of approach if Redick was the one shooting the open threes.
Yeah, I never understood why PHI didn't try harder to keep Reddick. I mean anyone who knows anything about basketball can see the gravity that Reddick produced, and how that opened up things both for Embiid and Simmons.

But certainly glad Reddick's gone.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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The Sixers are Screwed and There's No Clear Solution: https://www.phillyvoice.com/sixers-76ers-brett-brown-joel-embiid-joshua-harris-trades-free-agents-blow-up-rebuild-analysis/

Article pretty much summarizes what everyone has been saying here but it's still entertaining. It also includes the tweet below:

View: https://twitter.com/MOConnor_NBA/status/1296248122679660544?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1296248122679660544%7Ctwgr%5E&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.phillyvoice.com%2Fsixers-76ers-brett-brown-joel-embiid-joshua-harris-trades-free-agents-blow-up-rebuild-analysis%2F


If the Sixers didn’t trade Bridges and then did literally nothing but retain their guys after draft night 2018: Embiid
Simmons
JJ
Covington
Bridges
Shamet
Shake
Dario
Furk
Holmes
TLC
Fultz
~$18m unused cap for this yr All their own picks, including the one(s) that became Tisse
 

lovegtm

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The Sixers are Screwed and There's No Clear Solution: https://www.phillyvoice.com/sixers-76ers-brett-brown-joel-embiid-joshua-harris-trades-free-agents-blow-up-rebuild-analysis/

Article pretty much summarizes what everyone has been saying here but it's still entertaining. It also includes the tweet below:

View: https://twitter.com/MOConnor_NBA/status/1296248122679660544?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1296248122679660544%7Ctwgr%5E&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.phillyvoice.com%2Fsixers-76ers-brett-brown-joel-embiid-joshua-harris-trades-free-agents-blow-up-rebuild-analysis%2F


If the Sixers didn’t trade Bridges and then did literally nothing but retain their guys after draft night 2018: Embiid
Simmons
JJ
Covington
Bridges
Shamet
Shake
Dario
Furk
Holmes
TLC
Fultz
~$18m unused cap for this yr All their own picks, including the one(s) that became Tisse
People should remember this when they get mad at Ainge for not “making moves.” “Moves” are nearly always tilted towards aging or expensive known quantities.