76ers 2019-2020

BigSoxFan

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Wiggins, #2 overall and additional future firsts gets you close.
I dunno. That doesn’t get me close given how poor the top end of this draft is. Wiggins is a post hype dude on a bad contract. #2 gets you a non-sure thing and who knows with future picks. You don’t trade a star in his prime like Embiid for that unless he forces the issue. And he really can’t since he’s signed through 2023. Only way I would even consider it is if a can staple Harris or Horford with him but even then you’re basically ruining any chance at a title because of a self-inflicted wound.

I think the way to go here is to trade Simmons for shooting and find an acceptable starting guard. It would be the ultimate ballsy move but something like Simmons/Harris/filler for Beal/Wall/#9. Sixers and Wiz actually line up decently because both have absolutely horrendous contracts on their books and Beal would be great with Embiid.
 

lovegtm

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The more i think about it, it's hard to speculate on what putting Simmons or Embiid on the block gets you, because it's so rare for guys that good to come available that young AND under contract.

I think the entire league would put on their thinking caps and get really creative, and the final trade would be a surprising one.
 

scottyno

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What does Wiggins get you close on? Please help me understand why Philadelphia would do that?
To reworking the team into something that might have a chance to do something. Al isn't movable, and Al and Embiid together won't win anything. They need to make big changes to compete.

It lets you run out a starting 5 of simmons richardson wiggins harris horford without even factoring in the #2 pick, which is a lineup that makes a lot more sense in the modern NBA than the one they ran out this year. Also probably get the Ws to throw pretty much any other piece on the current team the sixers like besides curry thompson and green.
 

lovegtm

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Yeah, I definitely keep Simmons over Embiid, and I don't think the decision is super-close. Simmons could be DPOY while playing the most important position in basketball (big athletic wing who can switch 1-5). He matches up the best against the Celtics, who are the future of the East. Embiid also likely gets you a big haul from someone.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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Andrew Wiggins makes the Sixers worse than they are now and draft picks from a middling pool aren't going to help with the current roster.

Again, why would Philadelphia trade an elite player under control for four more seasons for what many consider one of the worst contracts in the league?

Again, I could be missing something but I see the 76ers standing pat if that is Embiid's market.
 

lovegtm

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Andrew Wiggins makes the Sixers worse than they are now and draft picks from a middling pool aren't going to help with the current roster.

Again, why would Philadelphia trade an elite player under control for four more seasons for what many consider one of the worst contracts in the league?

Again, I could be missing something but I see the 76ers standing pat if that is Embiid's market.
It would have to be something like "they could then route the picks to a 3rd team", but agree in general.

One thing people are sleeping on is that Embiid now has socially acceptable cover to demand a trade: the front office is considered a joke, and he just gave it his all only to get swept by a team that wasn't supposed to be in the same tier as his this year, due to those front-office failings.
 

benhogan

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Was anyone scared by big bad Joel this series? Watching him get gassed by the end of Q1 and fading all game long was the most predictable thing since watching Butch Hobson toss routine grounders into the dugout. Anyone that lets Kanter guard them credibly and then is incapable of guarding the perimeter is NOT a top 10 player going forward in the NBA.

If Phila decides to deal either/or, it has to be Embiid to go in my book. If they could get that haul from Chicago they should act on it OR If they could swing something Celts/Nets like with the KNICKs. Tobias + Embiid for salary and a bevvy of future picks.

Nothing is happening on that front until they clean out the entire front office and fire BB.
Wonder if they could convince Jay Wright to take his talents to the NBA?
 

lovegtm

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Was anyone scared by big bad Joel this series? Watching him get gassed by the end of Q1 and fading all game long was the most predictable thing since watching Butch Hobson toss routine grounders into the dugout. Anyone that lets Kanter guard them credibly and then is incapable of guarding the perimeter is NOT a top 10 player going forward in the NBA.

If Phila decides to deal either/or, it has to be Embiid to go in my book. If they could get that haul from Chicago they should act on it OR If they could swing something Celts/Nets like with the KNICKs. Tobias + Embiid for salary and a bevvy of future picks.

Nothing is happening on that front until they clean out the entire front office and fire BB.
Wonder if they could convince Jay Wright to take his talents to the NBA?
Counterpoint: I know it's fun among Celtics' fans to bash Embiid for the conditioning issues, but he played his guts out this series and impressed the hell out of me. Outside of the 3rd quarter in Game 2, Philly never quit even when it would have been easy to do so.

He was asked to do an insane amount in this series, and a more balanced team would be able to save him from so much banging on offense, which would leave him with more energy on defense. Rudy Gobert and Nikola Jokic aren’t asked to fight for post position every time down for 35-40 minutes.

The Sixers offensive gameplan in Game 4 was better in this regard, but their personnel sucks and it was too little, too late. I thought he did a good job both asking Brett Brown for more responsibility on defense, and then putting in the effort to get up to touch on screens.

I still would trade him over Simmons, because I think Simmons is a freaking stud and perfect for the modern game. But there will absolutely be GMs willing to go all-in on Embiid, and I don't think they're dumb to do so.
 
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Pesky Pole

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Embiid is Patrick Ewing to me. I know they aren’t the same but In the way that he’s a really good player who lacks conditioning, doesn’t have a killer instinct and often falls in love with his jumper. He’s passive and not the fiery leader the team needs.

That team needs one of their stars to be an alpha and they don’t have that post-Butler. Harris instead of Butler kills them.
 

sezwho

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Counterpoint: I know it's fun among Celtics' fans to bash Embiid for the conditioning issues, but he played his guts out this series and impressed the hell out of me. Outside of the 3rd quarter in Game 2, Philly never quit even when it would have been easy to do so.

He was asked to do an insane amount in this series, and a more balanced team would be able to save him from so much banging on offense, which would leave him with more energy on defense. Rudy Gobert and Nikola Jokic aren’t asked to fight for post position every time down for 35-40 minutes.

The Sixers offensive gameplan in Game 4 was better in this regard, but their personnel sucks and it was too little, too late. I thought he did a good job both asking Brett Brown for more responsibility on defense, and then putting in the effort to get up to touch on screens.

I still would trade him over Simmons, because I think Simmons is a freaking stud and perfect for the modern game. But there will absolutely be GMs willing to go all-in on Embiid, and I don't think they're dumb to do so.
Very much this, but I’ll go a bit further. I concede Embiid would look better with a proper cast and coaching and yes, maybe even do more cardio. Who wouldn’t?

I struggle with the idea Simmons is a better franchise player, but can’t even pair effectively with the most dominant big in thegame. He can’t shoot. Sure that could change, but I’m not building my team around that mix (someone help me build the rest of the Sixers championship team around Simmons?) when almost anybody works with well coached Embiid.
 

scottyno

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Andrew Wiggins makes the Sixers worse than they are now and draft picks from a middling pool aren't going to help with the current roster.

Again, why would Philadelphia trade an elite player under control for four more seasons for what many consider one of the worst contracts in the league?

Again, I could be missing something but I see the 76ers standing pat if that is Embiid's market.
Here's the problem with that thinking. Yes it almost definitely makes them worse now (though it's more than wiggins, you also get the #2 pick and horford would become a much more useful player on the new roster), what move that they can do makes them better?

Horford is virtually untradable, Harris, while probably tradeable, isn't going to bring anything back in a trade that makes you better. And they have basically no young assets to deal either in draft capital or on the current roster.

So what's the plan, pray that simmons learns to shoot and al finds the fountain of youth so he can play a semi decent 4 again?
 

lovegtm

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Very much this, but I’ll go a bit further. I concede Embiid would look better with a proper cast and coaching and yes, maybe even do more cardio. Who wouldn’t?

I struggle with the idea Simmons is a better franchise player, but can’t even pair effectively with the most dominant big in thegame. He can’t shoot. Sure that could change, but I’m not building my team around that mix (someone help me build the rest of the Sixers championship team around Simmons?) when almost anybody works with well coached Embiid.
The Simmons/Embiid problem is overblown imo. The problem is that they didn’t surround w shooting. If they had just done something like sign Theis as backup center for 2/14 and traded a pick for Bertans, this team would be amazing. Even Harris would look decent.

If you think of Simmons as big Westbrook or smaller Giannis, it’s a lot clearer what a team constructed around him could look like. Elite perimeter defense is such a big deal, and I think it’s easier to fit pieces around a non-shooting perimeter creator than a post guy.
 

scottyno

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The Simmons/Embiid problem is overblown imo. The problem is that they didn’t surround w shooting. If they had just done something like sign Theis as backup center for 2/14 and traded a pick for Bertans, this team would be amazing. Even Harris would look decent.
In that same alternate universe, Theis probably left because the Celtics kept Al and thus didn't get Kemba, yikes.
 

SteveF

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If you think of Simmons as big Westbrook or smaller Giannis, it’s a lot clearer what a team constructed around him could look like.
Giannis isn't the primary ball handler/initiator, but Westbrook could be. Do you see Simmons as a primary ball handler?

I could see him being fine running an offense surrounded by 4 shooters like Westbrook, but I think spacing becomes an issue with Embiid out there. As evidence, look at what the Rockets had to do to make the Westbrook thing work. They traded away their centers and play 5 out.
 

lovegtm

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Giannis isn't the primary ball handler/initiator, but Westbrook could be. Do you see Simmons as a primary ball handler?

I could see him being fine running an offense surrounded by 4 shooters like Westbrook, but I think spacing becomes an issue with Embiid out there. As evidence, look at what the Rockets had to do to make the Westbrook thing work. They traded away their centers and play 5 out.
Yes.
 

scottyno

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Giannis isn't the primary ball handler/initiator, but Westbrook could be. Do you see Simmons as a primary ball handler?

I could see him being fine running an offense surrounded by 4 shooters like Westbrook, but I think spacing becomes an issue with Embiid out there. As evidence, look at what the Rockets had to do to make the Westbrook thing work. They traded away their centers and play 5 out.
That's a reason to trade Embiid and play Al at the 5 more. Though Al isn't a significantly better shooter than Embiid at this point.
 

Sam Ray Not

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The more I think about it, the more I think Embiid to GS (for Wiggins and Wiseman) is a thing that might well happen. Seems far more logical from the perspective of both sides than Simmons to GS, much as I love to fantasize about Ben running with the Splash Bros. Steph and Joel are buddies; and Wiseman gives Philly a younger, fitter, faster, less disgruntled version of Embiid who could develop as Horford’s understudy over the next couple seasons. Obviously he’s miles from Embiid skill-wise right now, but his timeline still fits well with Simmons, who just turned 24.

As others have noted, Simmons-Richardson-Wiggins-Harris-Horford at least makes some structural sense, as both Harris and Horford get to play their more natural positions. Having a 6-10 PG with Wiseman on the bench mitigates any concerns about size.

Deal leaves GS with massive hole at the wing and backup PG, but that’s a topic for another thread. (One option: Minny 2021 + TPE for Kelly Oubre; and Trey Burke with the MLE).
 

lovegtm

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The more I think about it, the more I think Embiid to GS (for Wiggins and Wiseman) is a thing that might well happen. Seems far more logical from the perspective of both sides than Simmons to GS, much as I love to fantasize about Ben running with the Splash Bros. Steph and Joel are buddies; and Wiseman gives Philly a younger, fitter, faster, less disgruntled version of Embiid who could develop as Horford’s understudy over the next couple seasons. Obviously he’s miles from Embiid skill-wise right now, but his timeline still fits well with Simmons, who just turned 24.

As others have noted, Simmons-Richardson-Wiggins-Harris-Horford at least makes some structural sense, as both Harris and Horford get to play their more natural positions. Having a 6-10 PG with Wiseman on the bench mitigates any concerns about size.

Deal leaves GS with massive hole at the wing and backup PG, but that’s a topic for another thread. (One option: Minny 2021 + TPE for Kelly Oubre; and Trey Burke with the MLE).
I think Embiid to GS is a real possibility, but it would be for a hell of a lot more than Wiseman+Wiggins.

Embiid on the block would be a crazy bidding war: he's a 26 year-old top-10 player (in the right situation) who's under contract for 3 more years. He should easily get an AD/PG price.
 

BigSoxFan

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What about Phoenix?

Ayton
Oubre
Bridges (that would be funny)
Pick

for

Embiid

Phoenix gets a perfect big man to pair with Booker and Philly gets a young big with real upside to replace Embiid along with a nice piece in Bridges who they never should have traded in the first place. Oubre is a FA next year and could be sent to a 3rd team since he isn’t a great fit in Philly with Harris there.
 

lovegtm

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What about Phoenix?

Ayton
Oubre
Bridges (that would be funny)
Pick

for

Embiid

Phoenix gets a perfect big man to pair with Booker and Philly gets a young big with real upside to replace Embiid along with a nice piece in Bridges who they never should have traded in the first place. Oubre is a FA next year and could be sent to a 3rd team since he isn’t a great fit in Philly with Harris there.
That’s an interesting overall structure. I’m super-low on Ayton’s D, so I don’t do it, but I get the idea.
 

HowBoutDemSox

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The roster construction issue with the "Simmons+Embiid+shooting" blueprint is what we saw two years ago when they did just that, and Brad Stevens hunted the likes of Redick and Ilyasova and Belinelli on offense (while sagging off of Simmons on defense). It's not just surrounding them with shooting, it's surrounding them with shooters who can hold their own on defense, and those 3&D guys are expensive and hard to find. It's possible to hide one subpar defender if their offensive justifies it, as the Celtics have done with Kyrie/Kemba (and even Isaiah for a bit, though that was far tougher), but when you need several on the floor at a given time, your GM needs to be both lucky and good to collect the right pieces that don't create a target rich environment for a competent pick and roll offense to feast on in the playoffs when teams have time to really game plan.
 

lovegtm

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The roster construction issue with the "Simmons+Embiid+shooting" blueprint is what we saw two years ago when they did just that, and Brad Stevens hunted the likes of Redick and Ilyasova and Belinelli on offense (while sagging off of Simmons on defense). It's not just surrounding them with shooting, it's surrounding them with shooters who can hold their own on defense, and those 3&D guys are expensive and hard to find. It's possible to hide one subpar defender if their offensive justifies it, as the Celtics have done with Kyrie/Kemba (and even Isaiah for a bit, though that was far tougher), but when you need several on the floor at a given time, your GM needs to be both lucky and good to collect the right pieces that don't create a target rich environment for a competent pick and roll offense to feast on in the playoffs when teams have time to really game plan.
Fair point. Probably means one has to go, as seems likely at this point.

Forgetting about Denver’s POV for the moment: would people do Jokic for Embiid as Philly?
 

SteveF

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If I'm trading Embiid, it's to play Simmons on defense at the 5. I woudn't trade Embiid for a center.

Edit: Well, not all the time. But I want the option.
 

benhogan

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I think Embiid to GS is a real possibility, but it would be for a hell of a lot more than Wiseman+Wiggins.

Embiid on the block would be a crazy bidding war: he's a 26 year-old top-10 player (in the right situation) who's under contract for 3 more years. He should easily get an AD/PG price.
SOLD... on top 10 player and crazy bidding wars for oft-injured/out of shape MAX players with declining cap space

AD/PG was a different time, place, situation...we're in a different trade market from a year ago.

Yes, Embiid is good and there will be demand but it will be much trickier than in the past. ALSO as has been stated a million times, the demand for 5s isn't what it once was
 

benhogan

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If I'm trading Embiid, it's to play Simmons on defense at the 5. I woudn't trade Embiid for a center.

Edit: Well, not all the time. But I want the option.
YES I'd want Simmons to play the 5 and YES nobody wants/needs a 5, there is an ABUNDANCE of centers.

that's why they have been free-falling in drafts recently

have been traded for next to nothing, as we saw in Drummond's case (nice move by Detroit getting out of that option)

Are getting paid less and less in the FA market every year. There are over a dozen veteran 5s that will be FAs this off-season that will be signed at an 80-90% discount from their previous deals

AND many teams are stuck with a fossil 5 on their roster already (even the Celtics have Poirier to unload after extending YABU a year ago)

2020 NBA Center = a Stockton, CA house in 2009
 
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wade boggs chicken dinner

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Counterpoint: I know it's fun among Celtics' fans to bash Embiid for the conditioning issues, but he played his guts out this series and impressed the hell out of me. Outside of the 3rd quarter in Game 2, Philly never quit even when it would have been easy to do so.

He was asked to do an insane amount in this series, and a more balanced team would be able to save him from so much banging on offense, which would leave him with more energy on defense. Rudy Gobert and Nikola Jokic aren’t asked to fight for post position every time down for 35-40 minutes.

The Sixers offensive gameplan in Game 4 was better in this regard, but their personnel sucks and it was too little, too late. I thought he did a good job both asking Brett Brown for more responsibility on defense, and then putting in the effort to get up to touch on screens.

I still would trade him over Simmons, because I think Simmons is a freaking stud and perfect for the modern game. But there will absolutely be GMs willing to go all-in on Embiid, and I don't think they're dumb to do so.
Countercounterpoint: Embiid had 4 assists in the series and 0 in Game 4. Doris mentioned (and I assume she's correct on this) is that Embiid is at the top of post players in points per possession when he is NOT doubled-teamed but drops way down when he is double-teamed.

It seems to me that Embiid is saying all of the correct things but I guess deep down I wonder whether he's truly dedicated to being the best basketball player he can be?
The roster construction issue with the "Simmons+Embiid+shooting" blueprint is what we saw two years ago when they did just that, and Brad Stevens hunted the likes of Redick and Ilyasova and Belinelli on offense (while sagging off of Simmons on defense). It's not just surrounding them with shooting, it's surrounding them with shooters who can hold their own on defense, and those 3&D guys are expensive and hard to find. It's possible to hide one subpar defender if their offensive justifies it, as the Celtics have done with Kyrie/Kemba (and even Isaiah for a bit, though that was far tougher), but when you need several on the floor at a given time, your GM needs to be both lucky and good to collect the right pieces that don't create a target rich environment for a competent pick and roll offense to feast on in the playoffs when teams have time to really game plan.
I think PHI had a perfectly good roster construction last year in Embiid, Simmons, Butler, and Reddick. Butler solved a lot of problems for them, particularly at the end of games given that giving the ball to Embiid or Simmons is problematic. But for some reason, one or more of Embiid, Simmons, and/or Brown couldn't live with Butler, even though he gave them the best chance to win.

My guess is that the Sixers run this back again using Simmons as an excuse and the fact that they are not going to be able to get anywhere near value for either Embiid or Simmons. Plus, it's not out the realm of possibility that either or both of Embiid and Simmons improve, particularly if they happen to hire a good coach.

edit: txs DJnVA
 
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HowBoutDemSox

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I think PHI had a perfectly good roster construction last year in Embiid, Simmons, Butler, and Reddick. Butler solved a lot of problems for them, particularly at the end of games given that giving the ball to Embiid or Simmons is problematic. But for some reason, one or more of Embiid, Simmons, and/or Brown couldn't live with Butler, even though he gave them the best chance to win.

My guess is that the Sixers run this back again using Simmons as an excuse and the fact that they are not going to be able to get anywhere near value for either Embiid or Simmons. Plus, it's not out the realm of possibility that either or both of Embiid and Simmons improve, particularly if they happen to hire a good coach.
Agreed on both counts. Butler really took them to another level last year and they missed him a great deal this year, but they're not making any major moves for at least a year with another coach in charge next season.

It's like that old joke about the departing CEO who leaves three letters for the new CEO, to be opened one at a time sequentially when things start going bad. The first letter says "blame me for the mess I left you." The second letter says, "shake things up and reorganize." The third letter says, "write three letters."

The 6ers brain trust knows what their current letter says, it says "blame Brett Brown for this mess." They'll run with that for now, only moving on to shaking things up if that doesn't work and they need to move to the next letter.

Unless, of course, one of Simmons or Embiid forces their hand with a trade request.
 

nighthob

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The more I think about it, the more I think Embiid to GS (for Wiggins and Wiseman) is a thing that might well happen. Seems far more logical from the perspective of both sides than Simmons to GS, much as I love to fantasize about Ben running with the Splash Bros. Steph and Joel are buddies; and Wiseman gives Philly a younger, fitter, faster, less disgruntled version of Embiid who could develop as Horford’s understudy over the next couple seasons. Obviously he’s miles from Embiid skill-wise right now, but his timeline still fits well with Simmons, who just turned 24.

As others have noted, Simmons-Richardson-Wiggins-Harris-Horford at least makes some structural sense, as both Harris and Horford get to play their more natural positions. Having a 6-10 PG with Wiseman on the bench mitigates any concerns about size.

Deal leaves GS with massive hole at the wing and backup PG, but that’s a topic for another thread. (One option: Minny 2021 + TPE for Kelly Oubre; and Trey Burke with the MLE).
Yeah, there’s no way that Wiseman gets Philly to surrender Embiid and eat an albatross contract. You’d need to add the Minnesota first to it to get close.
 

bakahump

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Isnt this a damned if you do situation?

Sure Embiid is the guy to Trade......but he he cant be a centerpiece in todays NBA due to his conditioning and Defense.

We cant then say....."SO when Philly gets a HAUL for him...."

Basically your trading Embiid because he is not Great (good not great) in todays NBA and you cant build around him. So why do we think an NBA team would trade "quality players" for him? I guess it only takes one. But when you look at the Philly team this year and how it under performed expectations I dont see how you any GM can trade good "outside shooting wings" (which you need with Simmons) FOR Embiid when thats exactly what you need to have WITH Embiid.

I mean the Celts might be able to... (Hayward, Langford and the 14?) But why would we do that!!! lol

Who else has wings galore to trade and still have enough around Embiid?

Now if you trade Simmons, which from a strict talent aspect is silly, your roster construction is ironically easier. With more outside shooting Embiid becomes valuable. You simply cant get enough good shooting back for Embiid to build around Simmons.
But you might be able to get enough outside shooting back to build around Embiid.

And even if you get something close you have Horfords salary screwing you for the next 2 years.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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You're missing a "NOT" in that sentence somewhere.
Thanks. Shouldn't post before morning Mimosa. I meant to say (and corrected above in case anyone cares): "Doris mentioned (and I assume she's correct on this) is that Embiid is at the top of post players in points per possession when he is NOT doubled-teamed but drops way down when he is double-teamed."
 

lovegtm

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Isnt this a damned if you do situation?

Sure Embiid is the guy to Trade......but he he cant be a centerpiece in todays NBA due to his conditioning and Defense.

We cant then say....."SO when Philly gets a HAUL for him...."

Basically your trading Embiid because he is not Great (good not great) in todays NBA and you cant build around him. So why do we think an NBA team would trade "quality players" for him? I guess it only takes one. But when you look at the Philly team this year and how it under performed expectations I dont see how you any GM can trade good "outside shooting wings" (which you need with Simmons) FOR Embiid when thats exactly what you need to have WITH Embiid.

I mean the Celts might be able to... (Hayward, Langford and the 14?) But why would we do that!!! lol

Who else has wings galore to trade and still have enough around Embiid?

Now if you trade Simmons, which from a strict talent aspect is silly, your roster construction is ironically easier. With more outside shooting Embiid becomes valuable. You simply cant get enough good shooting back for Embiid to build around Simmons.
But you might be able to get enough outside shooting back to build around Embiid.

And even if you get something close you have Horfords salary screwing you for the next 2 years.
Kemba+ for Embiid package lmao. Run the East for forever. (ya I know it’s not happening)

Kemba+Hayward for Embiid+Horford gets into intriguing territory (will never happen).
 

Euclis20

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I'm having a hard time seeing the Sixers get close to equal value for either Simmons or Embiid. Even though they aren't a good fit, these are two young all stars signed long term who are excellent defenders. They should be listening to offers (as every team should for all but maybe a dozen players in the league), but I wouldn't be looking to trade either guy for what is likely to be 75 cents on the dollar. If they get an Anthony Davis or PG13 offer sure, but that's it.
 

Bernie Carbohydrate

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Yeah, I definitely keep Simmons over Embiid, and I don't think the decision is super-close. Simmons could be DPOY while playing the most important position in basketball (big athletic wing who can switch 1-5). He matches up the best against the Celtics, who are the future of the East. Embiid also likely gets you a big haul from someone.
Agreed-- Simmons on defense is made for today's NBA -- rangy, can switch, closes out on shooters, rotates. His ability to be a stopper can carry his terrible shot --and there's still a chance he develops enough of a shot to force folks to guard him, a la Jason Kidd.

I'm not sure Embiid is long for the top tier of the league -- injuries and conditioning seems to have literally showed him down at age 25. And when you have Embiid, you want to run your offense through him, but he struggles to make teams pay for double teams. And then (maybe out of frustration) he gets to to roaming around outside, which leads to him to shoot jumpers or his ugly three-ball. Twelve feet from the basket he becomes mortal. Twenty feet out...why?

Here's his 19-20 shot chart from Basketball Reference:

33661
 

Euclis20

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Agreed-- Simmons on defense is made for today's NBA -- rangy, can switch, closes out on shooters, rotates. His ability to be a stopper can carry his terrible shot --and there's still a chance he develops enough of a shot to force folks to guard him, a la Jason Kidd.
It's impossible to compare Simmons' inability to shoot to other poor shooting point guards. By his 4th game in the NBA, Jason Kidd had hit more career 3 pointers than Simmons has in over 200 games. Kidd shot nearly 70% from the line as a rookie, while Simmons shot 62% this season, 4 years after being drafted. There really isn't a historical guard to compare Simmons to as a shooter, his only hope are big men comps who no one ever told to shoot 3s until recently (Horford, Marc Gasol, Brook Lopez). Even those guys aren't fair comps, as they were all good decent FT shooters (70%+ their entire careers) and had a decent midrange game.

Jason Kidd turned into a pretty strong shooter: 1.7 3pm on .369 shooting and .795 from the line over his last 9 seasons. There is absolutely no chance Simmons approaches those numbers considering what he's done so far.
 

Kliq

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It's impossible to compare Simmons' inability to shoot to other poor shooting point guards. By his 4th game in the NBA, Jason Kidd had hit more career 3 pointers than Simmons has in over 200 games. Kidd shot nearly 70% from the line as a rookie, while Simmons shot 62% this season, 4 years after being drafted. There really isn't a historical guard to compare Simmons to as a shooter, his only hope are big men comps who no one ever told to shoot 3s until recently (Horford, Marc Gasol, Brook Lopez). Even those guys aren't fair comps, as they were all good decent FT shooters (70%+ their entire careers) and had a decent midrange game.

Jason Kidd turned into a pretty strong shooter: 1.7 3pm on .369 shooting and .795 from the line over his last 9 seasons. There is absolutely no chance Simmons approaches those numbers considering what he's done so far.
Yeah, I'm in the Simmons>Embiid camp, but there really is no parallel to Simmons' outside shooting issues. It is not merely that Simmons is a bad outside shooter, it is that he has some sort of mental block that prevents him from shooting the basketball outside of ten feet. It is a bizarre situation that has never been addressed, since everyone seems to agree that Simmons would be a much better player and Philadelphia a much better team, if he just occasionally took an outside shot. 94% of his FGA this season came within ten feet of the basket. He won't even take a wide open elbow jumper.
 

BigSoxFan

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Yeah, I'm in the Simmons>Embiid camp, but there really is no parallel to Simmons' outside shooting issues. It is not merely that Simmons is a bad outside shooter, it is that he has some sort of mental block that prevents him from shooting the basketball outside of ten feet. It is a bizarre situation that has never been addressed, since everyone seems to agree that Simmons would be a much better player and Philadelphia a much better team, if he just occasionally took an outside shot. 94% of his FGA this season came within ten feet of the basket. He won't even take a wide open elbow jumper.
It certainly would be pretty ironic if Fultz fixes his shooting woes, which he seems to be doing, but Simmons never does.
 

Jimbodandy

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It's impossible to compare Simmons' inability to shoot to other poor shooting point guards. By his 4th game in the NBA, Jason Kidd had hit more career 3 pointers than Simmons has in over 200 games. Kidd shot nearly 70% from the line as a rookie, while Simmons shot 62% this season, 4 years after being drafted. There really isn't a historical guard to compare Simmons to as a shooter, his only hope are big men comps who no one ever told to shoot 3s until recently (Horford, Marc Gasol, Brook Lopez). Even those guys aren't fair comps, as they were all good decent FT shooters (70%+ their entire careers) and had a decent midrange game.

Jason Kidd turned into a pretty strong shooter: 1.7 3pm on .369 shooting and .795 from the line over his last 9 seasons. There is absolutely no chance Simmons approaches those numbers considering what he's done so far.
Rondo is the comp. His last five seasons were in the "you have to cover the open 3" ballpark, and his career FT is 61%.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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None of which is Brown’s fault. So, this really does nothing to solve their issues.
Don't know if you saw the excerpt from the Redick pod that Ben Hogan posted here again last week but the conversation between JJ and Jimmy Butler was pretty damning on Brown. In short, they deemed him nothing more than an empty suit...er, untucked shirt.

Barring a finals appearance - and likely a win - he was going to be gone regardless.