2018 NBA offseason thread

PedroKsBambino

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As to Jokic, the biggest difference as to passing is role and usage not skill. There is no question he has the ball more—that wasn’t what the comment was, however. And he’s a much, much better scorer (in part because he’s a better shooter).

I’m a big fan of Jokic—but I think we need to contextualize numbers when making historical comparisons too. The guy can be great and also not be the greatest at every sub-skill.
 

Euclis20

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Other than vague anecdotal evidence, I haven't heard much on that. 77/78 was Walton's best assist season by far, and that year approximately 57.5% of made baskets were assisted. In 85/86, it was 60.2%. Compare that to last year, when approximately 58.7% of made baskets were assisted. That's really not much of a difference, and definitely doesn't explain that huge edge that Jokic has in both assist and turnover rates.
 

nighthob

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This is interesting...


For mobil users, Wojo's quote reads,

Sports Illustrated’s Lee Jenkins has agreed to join the Los Angeles Clippers front office, league sources tell ESPN. Jenkins’ title will be Executive Director of Research and Indentity, and he’ll work alongside President Lawrence Frank, GM Michael Winger and basketball ops staff.
As far as I know Jenkins is one of the few reporters close to Kawhi Leonard's camp. This makes sense of Ramona Shelburne's remarks on Kawhi's interest in Clipperland the other day. It will be hilarious if the Lakers fuck this up two summers in a row.
 

ElUno20

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The clipps have been trying to play chess with the Leonard situation. They fired Bowen as their color guy a couple months back because he was critical of Leonard
 

The Process

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Mar 23, 2018
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SI dropped their Top 10. Pretty much as expected (though Embiid and Westy in particular strike me as too high).

1. LeBron
2. KD
3. Curry
4. Harden
5. AD
6. Giannis
7. Westbrook
8. CP3
9. Embiid
10. Butler

https://www.si.com/nba/2018/09/10/top-100-nba-players-2019-lebron-james-stephen-curry-dirk-nowitzki

I'd go more like...

1. LeBron
2. Curry
3. KD
4. Kawhi
5. Harden
6. AD
7. CP3
8. Giannis
9. Draymond
10. Butler
Embiid is certainly in the top 10. I would move CP3 down a spot or two but Draymond isn't top 10 for me.
 

JakeRae

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Embiid is not as good as Horford. Horford is not a top 10 player. By the transitive property, Embiid is obviously not a top 10 player.

Jokic, on the other hand, these awful lists to the contrary, clearly is.
 

Sam Ray Not

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ESPN has been dropping its own NBA 100 — now through #21. Some pretty big discrepancies with the SI list where the Celtics are concerned...

SI / ESPN
Smart: didn't place / #55
Rozier: #82 / #82
Brown: #47 / #37
Tatum: #39 / #24
Hayward: #25 / #40
Kyrie: #17 / TBD
Horford: #16 / #34
 

nighthob

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ESPN's list is a little screwy, Hayward didn't play last year so they're dropping him, Fultz didn't play last year and made the top 100. But of those two guys only one of them has been a good NBA player.
 

Sam Ray Not

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ESPN drops their dueling top 20...

1. LeBron
2. Curry
3. Harden
4. (Tie) Durant, Antetokounmpo
6. Davis
7. Westbrook
8. Kawhi
9. Embiid
10. Lillard
11. CP3
12. Jokic
13. PG13
14. Butler
15. Oladipo
16. Draymond
17. Towns
18. Simmons
19. Klay
20. Kyrie

Eh, I prefer the SI list.
 

Kliq

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All the high rankings for Embiid and all I can think about is how winded he got after playing more than 25 minutes in the playoffs.
 

deanx0

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ESPN drops their dueling top 20...

1. LeBron
2. Curry
3. Harden
4. (Tie) Durant, Antetokounmpo
6. Davis
7. Westbrook
8. Kawhi
9. Embiid
10. Lillard
11. CP3
12. Jokic
13. PG13
14. Butler
15. Oladipo
16. Draymond
17. Towns
18. Simmons
19. Klay
20. Kyrie

Eh, I prefer the SI list.
KD not in the top 2 is creating a fake issue to generate clicks and discussion at its finest. It is such a non-starter that it automatically disqualifies the entire list.
 

Jimbodandy

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KD not in the top 2 is creating a fake issue to generate clicks and discussion at its finest. It is such a non-starter that it automatically disqualifies the entire list.
Agreed.

I love Giannis as much as anyone, but a conversation about KD below #2 is nonsense. Better debate is whether he's #1. FTR, I dont think he is #1, but it's a better case than 3/4.
 

snowmanny

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Agreed.

I love Giannis as much as anyone, but a conversation about KD below #2 is nonsense. Better debate is whether he's #1. FTR, I dont think he is #1, but it's a better case than 3/4.
Or 4/5, which is how they have him.

By the way, how dumb is it to have a tie on a list like this, which can claim to accurately slot Simmons between Towns and Thompson and crap like that? Was it voted on by a panel and they tied in points?
 

Jimbodandy

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Or 4/5, which is how they have him.

By the way, how dumb is it to have a tie on a list like this, which can claim to accurately slot Simmons between Towns and Thompson and crap like that? Was it voted on by a panel and they tied in points?
I think that we have to look at everything as clickbait now, unfortunately.

There is no metric that explains that list.
 

Kliq

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The case for Curry over Durant is not indefensible imo; and is based around the idea that Curry's unique shooting ability, particularly off of the dribble, warps defenses in such a way that no other player in history has been able to do, and opens up more avenues for all of Curry's teammates to flourish. Curry impacts the game in a very non-traditional way in that regard, and it's reflected in his teams' winning percentage, as well as advanced metrics that all suggest he is one of the best players of his era.

That however ignores the defensive side of the ball; where Durant is really one of the most versatile defenders in the game, capable of chasing guards on the perimeter as well as swatting shots at the rim. As multi-faceted as Durant is on the offensive end, he's nearly as gifted on the defensive side as well.
 

Jimbodandy

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I think that you're wrong to have Curry over Durant at #2, but not nuts. Having Durant at #4 is nuts and disqualifies the listmaker as a serious person.
 

Spelunker

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The case for Curry over Durant is not indefensible imo; and is based around the idea that Curry's unique shooting ability, particularly off of the dribble, warps defenses in such a way that no other player in history has been able to do, and opens up more avenues for all of Curry's teammates to flourish. Curry impacts the game in a very non-traditional way in that regard, and it's reflected in his teams' winning percentage, as well as advanced metrics that all suggest he is one of the best players of his era.

That however ignores the defensive side of the ball; where Durant is really one of the most versatile defenders in the game, capable of chasing guards on the perimeter as well as swatting shots at the rim. As multi-faceted as Durant is on the offensive end, he's nearly as gifted on the defensive side as well.
Yeah, I'm fine with Curry over Durant. I mean, I disagree with it, but I'm fine with someone making that case.

Harden over Durant is willfully stupid and/or trolling.
 

Sam Ray Not

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I can’t really judge Curry objectively since he’s never not been my guy, but with Durant I can draw on my impressions from his OKC days, and man, great as Harden is, KD always crushed him in the critical “scares the living shit out of me” and “please don’t let him face us in the playoffs” tests. The Warriors always had 3-4 guys who could hang defensively with Harden (Klay, Dre, Dray, Shaun, HBarnes); none of those guys could really handle KD.

And that’s just the offensive end. While KD has never rated as a great defender over a full season, in big games he has tools to make his impact felt defensively at a completely different level from Harden (or Curry). I mean, KD can and does guard Anthony Davis. Good luck with that, Harden and Curry.

Independent of context (which is what these lists strive to be) LeBron and KD have been the consensus two best players in the world for the last 5-6 years. Anyone who watches them even casually, on their teams or for Team USA, can see this pretty readily, and the efficiency/usage numbers pretty consistently bear it out. It takes a lot of overthinking, special pleading, and or click-baiting to put break up that pair, let alone drop KD to #4-5.

(TLDR: I agree with all of you).
 

jon abbey

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I can’t really judge Curry objectively since he’s never not been my guy, but with Durant I can draw on my impressions from his OKC days, and man, great as Harden is, KD always crushed him in the critical “scares the living shit out of me” and “please don’t let him face us in the playoffs” tests. The Warriors always had 3-4 guys who could hang defensively with Harden (Klay, Dre, Dray, Shaun, HBarnes); none of those guys could really handle KD.

And that’s just the offensive end. While KD has never rated as a great defender over a full season, in big games he has tools to make his impact felt defensively at a completely different level from Harden (or Curry). I mean, KD can and does guard Anthony Davis. Good luck with that, Harden and Curry.

Independent of context (which is what these lists strive to be) LeBron and KD have been the consensus two best players in the world for the last 5-6 years. Anyone who watches them even casually, on their teams or for Team USA, can see this pretty readily, and the efficiency/usage numbers pretty consistently bear it out. It takes a lot of overthinking, special pleading, and or click-baiting to put break up that pair, let alone drop KD to #4-5.

(TLDR: I agree with all of you).
So if the NBA decreed tomorrow that GS could not play with both Durant and Curry going forward and you were inexplicably the one who was forced to make the choice, who would you keep? Presumably Durant, I just want to hear you say it as you see them the most of us.

I can’t be the only one who watched the GS/HOU series last year and constantly thought about how I would order their five perimeter players, Durant was clearly the #1, then I’d go Curry/Harden/Paul/Klay, the last three are more debatable IMO.
 

Big John

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I doubt if anyone is taking Dieng's deal (which doesn't end until 2021), especially the Heat, who will be paying a ton of luxury tax this year for a team with no chance of winning, even with Butler.

I can construct credible packages for a dozen teams, including many from wannabe playoff teams in the EC, where I assume the Wolves will want to send Butler.

Milwaukee: Snell, Henson, Teletovic. Pick any two
Philadelphis: Covington and Bayless
Toronto: straight up for Ibaka. Or Danny Green and C.J. Miles
Washington: Austin Rivers and Markieff Morris
Brooklyn: DeMarre Carroll and Caris LeVert
Indiana: Evans and Bogdanovic
Cleveland: Jordan Clarkson, Kyle Korver

Any of these deals could be sweetened with picks, if necessary.
 

nighthob

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Minnesota's owner might like a backcourt swap (i.e. Butler/Teague for Fultz/Bayless/Chandler), but that would be about ten weeks out and therefore not terribly practical.
 

HomeRunBaker

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It's still offseason, right?

Malik Monk was checking into tonights game at the scorers table. Dead ball ensues, officials wave him into the game, Monk removes his warmup...…..and there is no jersey beneath it! So the game goes on as Monk walks back to the locker room to put on his uniform.

This may seem cute or a nothingburger to some but not to me. To me, it's a sign that the player is seriously lacking from the head up which is crucial to success in this cutthroat league. When you wonder why talented kids fail to make it in this league there is a very good chance it has to do with maturity, preparation, and understanding how to approach ones job as a professional.

https://deadspin.com/no-one-involved-in-putting-malik-monk-into-hornets-pres-1829480529
 

ElUno20

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It's still offseason, right?

Malik Monk was checking into tonights game at the scorers table. Dead ball ensues, officials wave him into the game, Monk removes his warmup...…..and there is no jersey beneath it! So the game goes on as Monk walks back to the locker room to put on his uniform.

This may seem cute or a nothingburger to some but not to me. To me, it's a sign that the player is seriously lacking from the head up which is crucial to success in this cutthroat league. When you wonder why talented kids fail to make it in this league there is a very good chance it has to do with maturity, preparation, and understanding how to approach ones job as a professional.

https://deadspin.com/no-one-involved-in-putting-malik-monk-into-hornets-pres-1829480529
Eh. Blake did the same thing last year. It's not a fatal offense
 

cheech13

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It's still offseason, right?

Malik Monk was checking into tonights game at the scorers table. Dead ball ensues, officials wave him into the game, Monk removes his warmup...…..and there is no jersey beneath it! So the game goes on as Monk walks back to the locker room to put on his uniform.

This may seem cute or a nothingburger to some but not to me. To me, it's a sign that the player is seriously lacking from the head up which is crucial to success in this cutthroat league. When you wonder why talented kids fail to make it in this league there is a very good chance it has to do with maturity, preparation, and understanding how to approach ones job as a professional.

https://deadspin.com/no-one-involved-in-putting-malik-monk-into-hornets-pres-1829480529
Neither here nor there, but it's been almost twenty years since I played basketball at any competitive level and I still routinely have dreams where I show up for a game and have mistakenly left my jersey at home.
 

Tony C

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I can't imagine GMs put much thought into this survey, but thought it was interesting all the same:
https://www.nba.com/gmsurvey/2018

The most underrated acquisition or the biggest draft steal questions, for example. In re the latter:

Which rookie was the biggest steal at where he was selected in the Draft?

1. Shai Gilgeous-Alexander (11), LA Clippers – 27%

2. Svi Mykhailiuk (47), L.A. Lakers – 13%

2. Wendell Carter Jr. (7), Chicago – 10%

Michael Porter Jr. (14), Denver – 10%

Gary Trent Jr. (37), Portland – 10%

6. Luka Doncic (3), Dallas – 7%

Kevin Knox (9), New York – 7%
 

Kliq

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I always like reading the GM survey, particularly for things that I don't know much about, like who is considered to be the best Assistant Coach in the NBA. The interesting one this year was "Who would you chose to build your franchise around?" Giannis won the vote, but last year's winner, KAT, didn't get a single vote, which I thought was odd because it wasn't like he had a lost season last year.

LeBron being named the best leader was interesting. He's the most talented player and a smart guy, but for the last several years his teams have always had some weird behind-the-scenes drama. Leadership is hard to define, though.
 

Imbricus

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Which rookie was the biggest steal at where he was selected in the Draft?
What? Not one vote for Williams? Doncic at 3 hardly seems a "steal." Even if you were convinced he should have gone #1, he dropped only two places. And he still has to show his flash translates to the NBA.
 

bosox79

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What? Not one vote for Williams? Doncic at 3 hardly seems a "steal." Even if you were convinced he should have gone #1, he dropped only two places. And he still has to show his flash translates to the NBA.
Other GMs are sleeping on him.
 

Tony C

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I always like reading the GM survey, particularly for things that I don't know much about, like who is considered to be the best Assistant Coach in the NBA. The interesting one this year was "Who would you chose to build your franchise around?" Giannis won the vote, but last year's winner, KAT, didn't get a single vote, which I thought was odd because it wasn't like he had a lost season last year.

LeBron being named the best leader was interesting. He's the most talented player and a smart guy, but for the last several years his teams have always had some weird behind-the-scenes drama. Leadership is hard to define, though.
The KAT thing popped to me, too -- you're right it wasn't a lost season for him, but nonetheless think his stock has significantly dropped.

Hadn't noticed the LeBron leadership thing. Really hard to comment on behind the scenes stuff based only on media reports...I guess that might be one where I'd defer to GMs.

Btw, is the one GM who didn't have Boston in the E Conf top 4 Ainge in a "don't jinx" sort of way? Or is there seriously someone who has 4 teams ahead of the Celts? I'll assume the former.