Dismiss Notice
Guest, I have a big favor to ask you. We've been working very hard to establish ourselves on social media. If you like/follow our pages it would be a HUGE help to us. SoSH on Facebook and Inside the Pylon Thanks! Nip

The Butler Did It

Discussion in 'Mark Blount's Port Cellar: Celtics Forum' started by RedOctober3829, Sep 19, 2018.

  1. RedOctober3829

    RedOctober3829 Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    35,488


    Jimmy Butler has requested a trade from the Minnesota Timberwolves, league sources tell me and @JonKrawczynski. Butler has given Minnesota a list of one-to-three teams with whom he's open to signing extension, in anticipation of trade.
     
  2. lovegtm

    lovegtm Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    2,558
    God I love the NBA.
     
  3. The Social Chair

    The Social Chair Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    2,268
    I'm guessing it is the following teams.

    Lakers
    Clippers
    Knicks (to be with his bff Kyrie next year)
     
  4. Koji’s Slider

    Koji’s Slider Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    435
    My guess on who is the three teams: Celtics, San Antonio and the Lakers.

    Would I do Jaylen, Terry, Sacramento and Memphis pick for Jimmy, yes I would.
     
  5. RGREELEY33

    RGREELEY33 Potty Mouth Gold Supporter SoSH Member

    Messages:
    3,566
    I’m glad Danny Ainge wouldn’t.

    Rozier, Smart, Morris, and Sac/Memphis would be doable from Celts standpoint (no idea if salaries work), but Minny could likely get a better player package for him.
     
  6. Sam Ray Not

    Sam Ray Not Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    4,827
    Salary-wise, Jaylen and Smart basically gets you there. Talent-wise, too, possibly?

    Kyrie, Butler, Tatum, Hayward, Horford would be a ridiculous five.
     
  7. Cellar-Door

    Cellar-Door Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    13,475
    Knicks, Nets and Clips are Jimmy's 3 teams. He wants to be in one of the 2 biggest markets.

    BTW, for sheer hillarity, nothing would beat MIN using Jimmy to dump Wiggins on the Knicks.

    Kanter/Noah/Baker (and picks) works for salary.
     
  8. Light-Tower-Power

    Light-Tower-Power Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    7,322
    I don't think there's any chance Danny breaks up the core for Butler, but it's Danny so who knows.

    EDIT: We're not on the list. Ship him to the Clips then.
     
  9. Lazy vs Crazy

    Lazy vs Crazy Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    1,951
    Can't trade Smart until midseason anyway because he just signed the extension, I believe.
     
  10. Cellar-Door

    Cellar-Door Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    13,475
    Butler to Boston never would have made that much sense anyway. He's about to come up for a new max this offseason, and unless you are letting Kyrie walk it would become a real issue for roster management
     
  11. DrewDawg

    DrewDawg Dorito Dink SoSH Member

    Messages:
    31,109
    It's Clippers, Nets, or Knicks per Yahoo.

    EDIT: My bad, LTP already posted that.
     
  12. Caspir

    Caspir Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    5,047
    The Knicks are 100% one of the team's on Butler's list. I don't think San Antonio is on anybody's list.

    Edit- Missed the update.
     
  13. bosox79

    bosox79 Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    8,890
    And why would any of those 3 teams want Butler given the position they are in?
     
  14. Light-Tower-Power

    Light-Tower-Power Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    7,322
    Probably because you try to pair him with either Kawhi or Kyrie next season. Those teams will have the space. Though I'm not sold on how much longer Butler will be an elite NBA player given that he is going to be 29 and already has a bad knee.
     
  15. DannyDarwinism

    DannyDarwinism Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    3,599
    The Knicks are the one I could see giving up real assets if they believe it will help them land Kyrie next year.
     
  16. lovegtm

    lovegtm Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    2,558
    It's not a slam-dunk that Butler will be better than Jaylen this season, given how beat up he is. Let alone the next 5-10 years.

    Fortunately it's all moot, and Butler wants Knicks Nets, or Clips.
     
  17. nighthob

    nighthob Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    6,831
    As a Boston fan I would like this, with the caveat that they were dumping them on the Nets and taking Brooklyn out of the superteam game. Crabbe/Carrol/Harris/#1 gets you there.
     
  18. ifmanis5

    ifmanis5 Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    31,805
    Adrian Wojnarowski‏Verified account @wojespn 49m49 minutes ago
    Sources: After NBA investigation into workplace misconduct, Dallas owner Mark Cuban and the NBA have agreed that he'll donate $10M to organizations that promote women in leadership roles and combat domestic violence. NBA can only fine $2.5M by rules.
     
  19. RedOctober3829

    RedOctober3829 Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    35,488
    Why would Kyrie leave Boston? He can make $48.6 million more with Boston than he can with any other team.
     
  20. Light-Tower-Power

    Light-Tower-Power Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    7,322
    I agree and I hope he doesn't, but nothing Kyrie does would surprise me. There's smoke about him and Butler teaming up after this season. I don't necessarily believe it but it's out there.
     
  21. cheech13

    cheech13 Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    873
    So Minnesota's return to relevancy lasted all of one season? That was fun.
     
  22. Sam Ray Not

    Sam Ray Not Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    4,827
    And you know Markkanen, Dunn and LaVine will all kill it next season, just to twist the knife. (Markkanen in particular looks like a budding stud).
     
  23. Kliq

    Kliq Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    8,424
    My goal this season is to get the nickname The Finnish Product over on a national level. Feel free to join me in my quest.
     
  24. chilidawg

    chilidawg Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    1,059
    kyrie, Brown, Tatum, Hayward, Horford is a ridiculous five.
     
  25. Sam Ray Not

    Sam Ray Not Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    4,827
    Indeed. Butler probably projects to be a fair bit better next season (advanced stats love him; by RPM he rated #4 in the league last year) but when you factor in age, injury concerns, and salary, the gap between them narrows considerably, and may even reverse by 2020 or so.

    When one of your best weapons going forward vs. the GSW hegemony is your youth, it doesn’t make a whole lot of sense to flip a well above-average starter who’s not even 22 for an established, somewhat fragile star who’s in the same age band as the Warriors Big 4.

    In other words: do it, Danny! ;-P
     
    #25 Sam Ray Not, Sep 19, 2018
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2018
  26. Sam Ray Not

    Sam Ray Not Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    4,827
    Love it. And you know it’s gonna crush all the Swedes and Norwegians in Minnesota to see their Scandinavian brethren killing it for the Bulls.
     
  27. the moops

    the moops Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    1,744
    It has been shown quite clearly that players are choosing to play where they want to over making the most possible money. Kyrie in NY is definitely in play.
     
  28. RedOctober3829

    RedOctober3829 Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    35,488
    If Kyrie bails on that kind of money and a stacked team set up for present and future for either Brooklyn or NY to play with Jimmy Butler then he's nuts.
     
  29. DannyDarwinism

    DannyDarwinism Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    3,599
    He can? Why?
     
  30. DannyDarwinism

    DannyDarwinism Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    3,599
    Presumably you're referring to the fifth year? I suppose, given his injury history, he'd be wise to lock up now. Whether Danny wants to pay a 32 year old point guard with a history of knee problems 48 million is another question.
     
  31. mcpickl

    mcpickl Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    2,871
    It's kinda misleading to say he gets an extra 48M more to stay in Boston. He locks up that much in guaranteed money, but assumes he couldn't get anyone to pay him a nickel in what would be the year after his contract expires.

    If Kyrie left, he'd probably sign a 3+1 max deal assuming he's healthy enough to demand a max. If he wanted to bet on himself, his path to the most money would be signing a 2+1 and re-enter free agency with 10 years of service.

    The difference between a max in Boston or elsewhere (going off next years' projected 109M cap)is zero after year one, around 900 grand through year two, 2.8M through year three, and if he didn't opt out 5.7M through year four.

    Unless he just desperately wants to lock in a fifth year next summer, Boston just doesn't have as big a financial advantage as is thrown around. I doubt it's enough of a difference to keep him from leaving if that's what wants to do.
     
  32. TripleOT

    TripleOT Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    1,059
    One big reason to move Brown for Butler would be to lock in Kyrie for the next half decade, assuming the rumor of a Butler union is true. Brown, Rozier, Morris, Yabu and a pick would probably be the best offer Minny will get, considering Butler could just be a rental for many teams.

    Boston would lose some bench depth, but could throw Kyrie, Horford, Butler, Hayward, Tatum, and Smart at the Warriors KD, Curry, Klay, Dray, Iggy, DMC. The difference between Brown and Butler for the next few seasons is Butler is a finished product at both ends.
     
  33. InstaFace

    InstaFace MDLzera

    Messages:
    6,165
    Can someone point me to the source of this alleged "Butler union rumor", or is this guesswork repeated often enough that it became fact?
     
  34. Caspir

    Caspir Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    5,047
    Brian Windhorst has reported it, but the source is Jimmy Butler himself. They touch on it in one line here, but I don't know where to find the initial quote/article.

    https://www.express.co.uk/sport/oth...oston-Celtics-Lakers-New-York-Knicks-Clippers

    Butler has previously admitted he would love to play alongside Irving and the two NBA All-Stars have been strongly linked with the New York Knicks."
     
  35. Ed Hillel

    Ed Hillel Wants to be startin somethin SoSH Member

    Messages:
    20,725
    The NBA: Where the big talk of the preseason is next offseason.
     
  36. PedroKsBambino

    PedroKsBambino Well-Known Member Lifetime Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    21,251
    Given all the rumors about KAT being less then fully happy, and to a much lesser degree (given reliability) the Wiggins tweet above one has to conclude there's something rotten in MN.

    I don't think we really know yet whether Butler is the source, or a symptom though. Might this really be a ploy to get the team to commit to Butler as the man (instead of KAT?) To get something else?
     
  37. the moops

    the moops Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    1,744
    I think it is as simple as Butler is an ultra competitive dude, and KAT and Wiggins don't mesh well with his style. Butler wants to win win win. He is 29 years old and has a bad knee. If he thinks he can form a superteam in LA or NY over the next year + he may view that as a better chance at a title than here in MIN
     
  38. nighthob

    nighthob Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    6,831
    You should stop worrying about the Knicks. Creating the space for one max signing next summer is doable, two isn't. So unless the T'wolves are agreeing to eat the Knicks bad contracts (Noah, Hardaway, and Lee) in a Butler trade, you should rest easy. If Butler goes to NYC then it's going to be the Butler/'Zingas/Knox Knicks that Boston has to worry about.

    Brooklyn, on the other hand...
     
  39. bosox79

    bosox79 Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    8,890
    This is the 2nd team he's demanded a trade from and he had some issues in Chicago too. So it's probably Butler.

    I hope the Celtics don't trade for him. I think he's incredibly overrated and while better than Jaylen Brown, I'm not sure how much longer he will be. I think this board sometimes under appreciates Brown because of Jayson Tatum.
     
  40. PedroKsBambino

    PedroKsBambino Well-Known Member Lifetime Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    21,251
    Agreed, it is probably Butler. And Minny probably knows the right way to resolve it is to deal him---just noting the possibility they do it differently.

    I agree, I do not imagine Celts will be heavily in the bidding given what it would take, what they have, and the somewhat ugly cap implications/choice-forcing.
     
  41. nighthob

    nighthob Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    6,831
    I think he's a really good player, and I don't think he's all that overrated. He's clearly not a team centerpiece, and definitely not a primary scorer, but if you have your LeBron, Jimmy Butler's defense and scoring will play really well. If you're the Nets you'd definitely want to take a shot at him because it might help you lure someone better next summer.
     
  42. bosox79

    bosox79 Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    8,890
    That player you are describing doesn't sound like a top 10 player and that's where a lot of people have him.
     
  43. bowiac

    bowiac I've been living a lie. Lifetime Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    12,011
    Man, how many team centerpieces are there if Butler doesn't qualify.
     
  44. Kliq

    Kliq Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    8,424
    To be fair, there are not many. How many players are good enough to be the best player on a championship team that can compete with the Warriors, or Houston? You don't need one All-NBA guy, you need a couple.

    I can't really explain it but Butler has never stood out to me as a Top 10 guy. His numbers are pretty good and he's improved his outside shooting a lot since he came into the league, he gets to the line, can create for others a little bit and plays good defense, with excellent size, strength and length as a wing. But when I watch him, I never feel like he is an efficient scorer, or someone that is a reliable offensive presence the way the real top guys (Durant, Curry, Harden, LeBron, Westbrook) are. I know the numbers won't back me up on that, which is why I can't really explain it.
     
  45. DrewDawg

    DrewDawg Dorito Dink SoSH Member

    Messages:
    31,109
    Flat earth.
     
  46. DrewDawg

    DrewDawg Dorito Dink SoSH Member

    Messages:
    31,109
    Except he said he'd only sign with 3 teams. If he would sign with Boston to play with Kyrie, I'm sure they would be on the list.
     
  47. Sam Ray Not

    Sam Ray Not Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    4,827
    The scoring volume numbers back you up for all those guys, and the scoring efficiency numbers back you up for all of them except Westbrook.

    Career pts per 36 / TS%

    Durant 26.3 / .611
    LeBron 25.2 / .586
    Harden 24.5 / .608
    Curry 24.1 / .621
    Westbrook 24.1 / .532

    Butler 18.0 / .571

    Yeah, Butler's efficiency and volume has trended up in recent years, but that goes for all those guys, doubly for some of them. (Steph last season put up 29.7 pts per 36 on an obscene .675 ts — i.e. 135 pts per 100 possessions — when he wasn't on the shelf with an ankle or MCL injury).

    Of course, Butler's a better defender than everyone on that list, but I don't think that makes up for the wide offensive gap (except possibly with Westbrook).
     
  48. cheech13

    cheech13 Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    873
    Did he demand a trade from Chicago? I thought that they were committed to a rebuild and moved on from Butler before he became eligible for the Super Max.

    Also, I saw a report that Butler has been desperate for years to play in a big market. How is Chicago not a big market? It's the third largest city in the US and unlike NYC and LA doesn't split the market with two teams.
     
  49. ElUno20

    ElUno20 Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    3,138
    I just found out Butler is 30?!??! Wtf. Keep your old ass in Minny, Jimmy.
     
  50. BigSoxFan

    BigSoxFan Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    29,624
    Not quite yet. Just turned 29 last week.
     

Share This Page