2018 NBA offseason thread

Imbricus

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BRobb writes that they may be working on an extension with Rozier with a quote from Rozier that he's at least considering it.
God, I hope they do. He's shown flashes of something very special, with some of his spin moves around the basket, in the pre-season. He's a real spark plug too. And he had a good line about the Celtics' poor play in the pre-season, saying the team was acting like it had already won something. He's going to give it all every night. I know they can't pay everyone, but I'd like to see him around for a few years.
 

Big John

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Any team trading a decent pg to the Suns will want an unprotected first round pick, which will almost certainly be in the top 5 or 6. Bender has value as expiring fodder if the deal is done before 10/31.

Bender and Melton (or Bridges) plus an unprotected first rounder for Rozier
 

Big John

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If Bender comes back, they could say goodbye to Bender and Yabu together on 10/31.

Having said that, Bender has potential. He was misused in Phoenix and he won't turn 21 until Nov. 17.
 

nighthob

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Any team trading a decent pg to the Suns will want an unprotected first round pick, which will almost certainly be in the top 5 or 6. Bender has value as expiring fodder if the deal is done before 10/31.

Bender and Melton (or Bridges) plus an unprotected first rounder for Rozier
I don't think that Melton can be packaged with another contract yet. And the only team with cap space left to make it all work is the Kings. There'd still need to be something the Kings wanted as filler, but there's at least potential there. Melton would be a decent get as the fourth guard.
 

JCizzle

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Wow, this doesn't sound awkward at all. Just straight up yelling at the coaches and FO.

 
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Gash Prex

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Seems like it was a leverage play by Butler - just so happened Rachel Nichols was in Minn to do an in person espn interview after all this took place -

I’m assuming Thibs never thought Butler would go this route.
 

johnmd20

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Seems like it was a leverage play by Butler - just so happened Rachel Nichols was in Minn to do an in person espn interview after all this took place -

I’m assuming Thibs never thought Butler would go this route.
Seriously, he's on ESPN this very second getting interviewed. Definitely a power play by Butler.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Indeed. Wonder wtf happened. Thibs knew him well and made the move for him. So weird
Per Woj....Butler took 4 bench guys, challenged the starters, beat them, talked shit, then mic-dropped out the door.

This is the type of player you keep.....screw KAT and Wiggins along with their softness. Trade them!
 

McBride11

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Wow, this doesn't sound awkward at all. Just straight up yelling at the coaches and FO.

Here is the thing. What does this even mean??
A hypercompetitive guy yelling ‘cmon tibs! Let do it this year! This is our year!’

Or a disgruntled superstar ‘see tibs you suck!! Get me outta here! Be better!’
 

djbayko

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Here is the thing. What does this even mean??
A hypercompetitive guy yelling ‘cmon tibs! Let do it this year! This is our year!’

Or a disgruntled superstar ‘see tibs you suck!! Get me outta here! Be better!’
"I'm going to be trouble if you don't trade me."
 

JCizzle

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Per Woj....Butler took 4 bench guys, challenged the starters, beat them, talked shit, then mic-dropped out the door.

This is the type of player you keep.....screw KAT and Wiggins along with their softness. Trade them!
Trade KAT to accommodate a 30 year old wing with a ton of mileage? Wiggins... harder to argue assuming anyone will take that contract.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Trade KAT to accommodate a 30 year old wing with a ton of mileage? Wiggins... harder to argue assuming anyone will take that contract.
That was part hyperbole (re:KAT)......but not much more so than Butler being a 30-year old with a ton of mileage. He's 29 and has been a full-time starter for only 5 seasons.
 

HomeRunBaker

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*full time starter (he has only averaged 67 games played over those 5 season)
Durant has averaged 62 in that time. Anthony Davis 68. You're making it sound like Butler is Chandler Parsons. He has 15,000 career regular season minutes...….Durant has 2x, LeBron 3x. There is no reason to believe that there isn't a ton of miles left on Jimmy Butler's legs......he's about 13k short of cracking the All-Time Top 250 in Minutes Played to this point.
 

cheech13

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Woj is the best in the business at breaking news, but I hate it when he uses his power to plant stories for agents and executives that he has relationships with. I know he's not alone in doing it, but somehow his just comes off really tacky sometimes.
 

bosox79

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Durant has averaged 62 in that time. Anthony Davis 68. You're making it sound like Butler is Chandler Parsons. He has 15,000 career regular season minutes...….Durant has 2x, LeBron 3x. There is no reason to believe that there isn't a ton of miles left on Jimmy Butler's legs......he's about 13k short of cracking the All-Time Top 250 in Minutes Played to this point.
How relevant is that though? Are you saying missing time due to injury is beneficial to a player later in his career because less minutes? Is a player warming the bench until he's 24 more likely to last longer in the NBA than the guy who was starting at 20? And what is better for the legs, playing 30 mpg for 10 years straight or playing 37 mpg for 5 years straight?

I agree with your main point. I'd guess Butler still has at least 4-5 good years left since he just turned 29. Considering he's a top 15 talent, he probably has even more than that since his game can decline some and he'd still be above average.
 

HomeRunBaker

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How relevant is that though? Are you saying missing time due to injury is beneficial to a player later in his career because less minutes? Is a player warming the bench until he's 24 more likely to last longer in the NBA than the guy who was starting at 20? And what is better for the legs, playing 30 mpg for 10 years straight or playing 37 mpg for 5 years straight?

I agree with your main point. I'd guess Butler still has at least 4-5 good years left since he just turned 29. Considering he's a top 15 talent, he probably has even more than that since his game can decline some and he'd still be above average.
I am in the camp that finds these numbers and how they relate to career ending/slowing injuries to be extremely misleading without additional player profile information.....which is why my head explodes each year when I read posts about LeBron's minutes and what he has left in the tank for the playoffs. Players genetic makeups are not created equally.

Genetics and ones athleticism base play a much greater factor than some variance in one players minutes comparted to another. As a player ages they typically lose athleticism/explosiveness while gaining experience/savvy/BBIQ or however you choose to define it.....in general, they are now at an advanced understanding of the game stage compared to younger players. The greater the athleticism a player has the more they can afford to lose in this area whereas a player with limited athleticism can't afford to lose as much thus will tend to have a shorter elite/effective career. The better athlete benefits greater from the aging process as they retain enough athleticism to compete while presumably gaining the increased mental acumen. A player with little athleticism may not be at a physical disadvantage while not benefitting as much mentally as this is already advanced prior to aging so there is the law of diminishing returns in this area.
 

queenb

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Woj is the best in the business at breaking news, but I hate it when he uses his power to plant stories for agents and executives that he has relationships with. I know he's not alone in doing it, but somehow his just comes off really tacky sometimes.
Thank you.

A lot of Minnesota players left Timberwolves practice today energized by Butler's performance, mesmerized with him taking end-of-the-bench players and running the table on the regulars, sources said. At the end, he marched out like if a mic drop. Butler delivered a tour de force.
At one point in a scrimmage, sources said, Butler turned to GM Scott Layden and screamed, "You (bleeping) need me. You can't win without me." Butler left teammates and coaches largely speechless. He dominated the gym in every way. Jimmy's back.
These are embarrassing.
 

bosox79

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Leaving your teammates energized and inspired is embarrassing? That teams young players need to do more embarrassing of themselves if this is the case.
I dunno. I think Wiggins is so bad he makes everyone else look bad too. They would literally be a better team if they benched him and played just about anyone else. He just sucks so bad.
 

InstaFace

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Leaving your teammates energized and inspired is embarrassing? That teams young players need to do more embarrassing of themselves if this is the case.
I think she's saying it's embarrassing for Someone like Woj to be using his rep to print something as transparently water-carrying for an agent's desired narrative as that.
 

queenb

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Leaving your teammates energized and inspired is embarrassing? That teams young players need to do more embarrassing of themselves if this is the case.
I meant for Woj. Was it:

(A) a triumphant moment for Butler that affirms his talent or
(B) an embarrassing, tyrannical, petty display

These tweets would have us believe that "a lot" of his teammates came away believing it was more (A) than (B). But these are human beings. Their self-appointed leader says through the press he doesn't want to lead them anymore and then shows up late and says to their faces they're gonna to be terrible when he's not around to lead them anymore, and they come away even more convinced by his leadership?

@InstaFace I should probably change my avatar. And username. (I'm a guy.)
 

HowBoutDemSox

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Knicks cut/stretch Noah:
After waiving Joakim Noah on Saturday, the New York Knicks will use the stretch provision on the remaining year of his contract to clear cap space in an effort to pursue top free agents in the summer of 2019, league sources told ESPN.

Using the stretch provision reduces Noah's cap hit of $19.3 million in 2019-20 to $6.4 million, saving the team $12.9 million toward the salary cap. Stretching his contract, though, will cost the Knicks $6.4 million in cap space in the summers of 2020 and 2021.
http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/24973763/new-york-knicks-waive-joakim-noah

And before anyone makes the Thibs jokes:

Adrian Wojnarowski

✔@wojespn

Minnesota’s Tom Thibodeau has shown no interest in adding Joakim Noah to his collection of ex-Bulls, league sources tell ESPN.

2:15 PM - Oct 13, 2018
 

Kliq

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If the Knicks are interested in tanking this season they should be starting Noah.
 

Kliq

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I haven't watched a minute of preseason basketball, but FWIW, from what I'm reading from Hawks fans, Trae's passing vision is looking so good that he has the potential to become an excellent player even if he never becomes a truly elite shooter.
I’m high on Young and think people are sleeping on his court vision, it’s as good as anyone else’s in the league.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Wasn’t it cited as one of his strengths coming out? I thought the only real knocks on him were his size and the fact he came out of nowhere?
It was Young's size/strength and in particular how these physical limitations would affect him defensively. The list of strength in order were almost universally 1) shooting with range and 2) court vision/passing
 

Kliq

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I'd say the biggest knock on Young was shot selection. He can make some incredible shots from deep, but also will take some reckless shots and will likely end up shooting a lower percentage from three then you would expect (he only shot 36 percent in college). Defensively he's going to struggle, but he is a legit 6'2'', 180, so he isn't quite IT out there, and in the NBA it's possible to hide a slight, poor defending PG with the right team around him (the Hawks probably aren't that team though).

He's one of the most interesting players in 2019, because he has the potential to be a sensation, or one of the worst players in the NBA. In Atlanta he's going to get an opportunity to really run a NBA team from the first game.

If you can find a prop bet for John Collins and dunks made, take the over. He's going to get about five lobs a game.
 

bosox79

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Isn't his decision making questionable too? I remember him being very turnover prone but I'm not a big CBB guy.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Isn't his decision making questionable too? I remember him being very turnover prone but I'm not a big CBB guy.
His usage rate was #1 in the entire country as the teams primary ballhandler, scorer, and distributor so naturally he was going to make more "poor decisions" than anyone else in his game. With the spotlight on Young it was easy for those with agendas to pinpoint those possessions and he seemed to wear down as the conference season went on which I felt had a lot to do with gameplanning specifically to attack him with traps and multiple defenders switching. He led the country in turnovers however using that number without context will tell a false story on Young's skillset. While i was/is semi-cool as him being an NBA star I certainly wouldn't consider him "turnover prone" at all last season in college.
 

bosox79

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Was Young compared to James Harden? From a box score perspective, it looks dead on.

For a draft where pretty much every top player had some doubters going forward, the top 6 picks have all performed really well, especially Ayton and Doncic. Preseason and all, but this could go down as the year of the Rookie.