2016 Cowboys: Giddyup for Elliot

LondonSox

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Sanchez is fine as a backup for no cost. But as yammer says not to start.

Seems a decent move to me, until Romo is back (sorry) you need something. If dak sucks total balls or gets hurt if nothing more.
If Romo is out longer even more useful.
 

Bosoxen

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Yeah, I don't have a problem with the move. As an insurance policy, you could certainly do a lot worse.

In other news, it appears Randy Gregory won his appeal and his suspension got dropped from 10 games to four.
 

E5 Yaz

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In other news, it appears Randy Gregory won his appeal and his suspension got dropped from 10 games to four.
Dallas Cowboys defensive end Randy Gregory has not had his appeal heard regarding an additional suspension by the NFL for violating the substance abuse policy, a source told ESPN on Sunday.
The NFL has not announced more than a four-game suspension for Gregory, and the league still considers his potential "4-plus-10" ‎suspension to be pending, according to the source.

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/17463965/randy-gregory-dallas-cowboys-faces-additional-suspension-substance-abuse-violation
 

Bosoxen

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Interesting. Since I saw it on the crawl on ESPN.
 

tims4wins

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Um time for a new thread name??

"We don't have anybody valuable enough to take up that lost spot to give us the opportunity to see how [Romo] does," Jones told 105.3 The Fan in Dallas. "There's just not enough value there realistically to bring someone else in. That's the deciding factor. You don't have to spend a lot of time, going over and kind of circumcising a mosquito. ... There's nobody good enough to take that spot to give you a chance for that 'if' -- if [Romo] can come back."
 

Bosoxen

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Oh my, I'm definitely going to have to look for that audio tonight. The radio hosts' reaction to that must have been hysterical.

And The Ticket, too. They're probably having a field day with that today.
 

Bosoxen

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If hating Skip Bayless for any reason is wrong, I don't want to be right. I see what you mean and they both look like fossils with that whole deal, but fuck that guy anyway. Bayless is the perfect embodiment of the post-factual, hateful world in which we currently live.

Ok, no more V&N discussion in a football thread for me.
 

dcmissle

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IIRC, this jerkoff wrote that Aikman threw games to get Switzer fired.

Our age rewards suck jerkoffs with reported $5 million a year deals. And the sad fact is the Fox brass are probably delighted by the dust up because any publicity is good.
 

Bosoxen

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Fair deal. I just liked that Aikman showed some serious stones and called out his superiors for hiring one of the biggest jerkoffs in sports media.
I can't say I'd give him that much credit. It doesn't take a massive amount of courage when you know that CBS would be knocking down your door before the ink was even dry on your pink slip.

Fox obviously embraces that kind of behavior and dc is right, they're probably loving that this has them all over the sports news going into the NFL season.
 

Time to Mo Vaughn

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Maybe Romo should take some PEDs and get a 4 game suspension allowing the Cowboys to open up a roster spot.
 

Marciano490

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If hating Skip Bayless for any reason is wrong, I don't want to be right. I see what you mean and they both look like fossils with that whole deal, but fuck that guy anyway. Bayless is the perfect embodiment of the post-factual, hateful world in which we currently live.

Ok, no more V&N discussion in a football thread for me.
The quotes I saw seemed more upset about the invasion of privacy and seeking to make bones on Aikman's fame than any ew he called me gay reaction. I suppose he could've thrown in a "not that there's anything wrong with that," but did you see him say anything about being called gay in particular that seemed anachronistic?
 

Bosoxen

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The quotes I saw seemed more upset about the invasion of privacy and seeking to make bones on Aikman's fame than any ew he called me gay reaction. I suppose he could've thrown in a "not that there's anything wrong with that," but did you see him say anything about being called gay in particular that seemed anachronistic?
I'd say holding a 20-year grudge based on that alone isn't exactly a sign of enlightenment. Almost like he considers being called gay an insult.

I'm not sure if there was really any invasion of privacy since Bayless didn't exactly go digging through his trash to back up his assertion. It was all baseless crap with Bayless trying to stir shit up. I'd be happy to be corrected, since I'm basing this off of my own recollection of what happened - which anyone who knows me would tell you it's faulty.
 

Marciano490

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I'd say holding a 20-year grudge based on that alone isn't exactly a sign of enlightenment. Almost like he considers being called gay an insult.

I'm not sure if there was really any invasion of privacy since Bayless didn't exactly go digging through his trash to back up his assertion. It was all baseless crap with Bayless trying to stir shit up. I'd be happy to be corrected, since I'm basing this off of my own recollection of what happened - which anyone who knows me would tell you it's faulty.
I don't know Aikman or his rep, but this seems like projection or stereotyping. He'd probably be pissed too if Bayless said he was screwing Jerry Jones' or a teammate's wife.
 

Bosoxen

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I don't know Aikman or his rep, but this seems like projection or stereotyping. He'd probably be pissed too if Bayless said he was screwing Jerry Jones' or a teammate's wife.
Projection? What would give you the idea that I would project anything on this matter?

Here's the thing, he's a good old boy from podunk Oklahoma who twice played for Barry Switzer - once by choice. It's not really that big of a leap to think he might not be the most enlightened person in the world.

I'll say again, I'd be happy to be proven wrong.

Edit: Apologies if there's a double post. Having trouble with the app and I'm going to bed so I'm not gonna check to see if it only posted once or not.
 

Marciano490

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Projection? What would give you the idea that I would project anything on this matter?

Here's the thing, he's a good old boy from podunk Oklahoma who twice played for Barry Switzer - once by choice. It's not really that big of a leap to think he might not be the most enlightened person in the world.

I'll say again, I'd be happy to be proven wrong.

Edit: Apologies if there's a double post. Having trouble with the app and I'm going to bed so I'm not gonna check to see if it only posted once or not.
If I were a betting man, I'd say you're probably right, but saying he must've been unenlightened about all this because he's a good old boy from Okie is a bit of projection.
 

Bosoxen

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projection
Either you don't know what this means or you need to answer my question in my previous post where I asked you what you think I could possibly be projecting on the matter.

I suppose there's a third option: this is performance art and you're doing what Skip Bayless did to Aikman so many years ago. But you're not CoRP so that's not really usually your style.
 

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This is a decent recap of what Bayless wrote in his book (Hell-Bent) and how it was regarded back then. The basis of this issue apparently coming from Barry Switzer's apparatus.

Writers charged that by merely printing a rumor sourced to someone else — even if it was portrayed as a weapon wielded by the “Switzer camp” — Bayless had done something irresponsible.

I have always regarded Bayless as a bomb thrower supreme, so if Troy chooses to hate him...so be it. I can't imagine the fishbowl that was Dallas in those days.
 

Marciano490

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Either you don't know what this means or you need to answer my question in my previous post where I asked you what you think I could possibly be projecting on the matter.

I suppose there's a third option: this is performance art and you're doing what Skip Bayless did to Aikman so many years ago. But you're not CoRP so that's not really usually your style.
I'm not saying you're projecting your homophobia onto Aikman, I'm saying you're projecting your opinion on how small town Oklahoma athletes feel about homosexuals. Is that not proper usage?
 

Bosoxen

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I'm not saying you're projecting your homophobia onto Aikman, I'm saying you're projecting your opinion on how small town Oklahoma athletes feel about homosexuals. Is that not proper usage?
Not quite:

Psychological projection is a theory in psychology in which humans defend themselves against their own unconscious impulses or qualities (both positive and negative) by denying their existence in themselves while attributing them to others.
So now we've gone from V&N to psychology. The season needs to hurry the hell up and start already so we can actually have something to discuss.
 

Marciano490

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Not quite:



So now we've gone from V&N to psychology. The season needs to hurry the hell up and start already so we can actually have something to discuss.
Well, are you from a small town in Oklahoma?
 

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I'm not saying you're projecting your homophobia onto Aikman, I'm saying you're projecting your opinion on how small town Oklahoma athletes feel about homosexuals. Is that not proper usage?
I think I was the one who introduced this concept into the discussion so I should clarify where I was coming from, and where I think Luis is coming from.

Bayless made a lot of noise with the "Aikman is gay" story and if I remember correctly he beat the drum on the radio and in the papers too. I think - and again, I may be wrong - he even said that Aikman owed an explanation to the people of Dallas.

Obviously this is a throwback to an earlier time when shit like this was defensible. Shame on us. But in the interim the NFL has done a decent, but not great, job of drumming out the homophobia from the league.

With all that context, I wasn't saying that Aikman is homophobic. My hope was that he, as a guy who commands respect for a lot of reasons, could use the platform to say something that just noted what a mouth breather accusation it was and that all it did was promote more derision towards the gay community, which was ludicrous. I'm not expecting him to say "if I want to put my three Super Bowl rings on and deep fist some greased up bear in my basement, that is my right!", but even a "the question of a player's sexuality is never relevant, and it amounts to yellow, attention-seeking journalism" would have been solid.
 

Marciano490

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I think I was the one who introduced this concept into the discussion so I should clarify where I was coming from, and where I think Luis is coming from.

Bayless made a lot of noise with the "Aikman is gay" story and if I remember correctly he beat the drum on the radio and in the papers too. I think - and again, I may be wrong - he even said that Aikman owed an explanation to the people of Dallas.

Obviously this is a throwback to an earlier time when shit like this was defensible. Shame on us. But in the interim the NFL has done a decent, but not great, job of drumming out the homophobia from the league.

With all that context, I wasn't saying that Aikman is homophobic. My hope was that he, as a guy who commands respect for a lot of reasons, could use the platform to say something that just noted what a mouth breather accusation it was and that all it did was promote more derision to the gay community, which
Gotcha, so not a bad on Aikman, more of a wish he could've done more with the opportunity.
 

Rick Burlesons Yam Bag

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Gotcha, so not a bad on Aikman, more of a wish he could've done more with the opportunity.
Yes. It was kind of scratching a stupid scab that was healing, so it could have been a great, building moment where Aikman looked like not just the bigger man, but an immensely bigger man. Instead we have a slapfight where Aikman definitely has the sympathy, but it's an opportunity lost. Not his fault, it just is what it is.
 

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On a different note......some guy on the radio said that Prescott did not take any 3,5 or 7 step drops in the preseason, he only did rollouts (he may have said that he only made completions this way, I wasn't listening that closely). That can't be true, is it???
I'm not quite sure what was said but that's not strictly true. Here's a video of some of his preseason highlights:


There are plenty of five and seven-step drops in there. Now, if one wants to say he didn't do that from under center, there's quite possibly a point to be made there (though he did throw a TD in the Miami game that could have been considered a three-step drop). He had a couple seven-step drops off of play action, but I can see how one might want to split that hair to make a point.

In other words, that's possibly technically true, but this video doesn't include very single play.
 

Rick Burlesons Yam Bag

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I'm not quite sure what was said but that's not strictly true. Here's a video of some of his preseason highlights:


There are plenty of five and seven-step drops in there. Now, if one wants to say he didn't do that from under center, there's quite possibly a point to be made there (though he did throw a TD in the Miami game that could have been considered a three-step drop). He had a couple seven-step drops off of play action, but I can see how one might want to split that hair to make a point.

In other words, that's possibly technically true, but this video doesn't include very single play.
Maybe that was where he was going. The whole thing sounded bizarre. Thanks for clearing it up.
 

Kenny F'ing Powers

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I'm not quite sure what was said but that's not strictly true. Here's a video of some of his preseason highlights:


There are plenty of five and seven-step drops in there. Now, if one wants to say he didn't do that from under center, there's quite possibly a point to be made there (though he did throw a TD in the Miami game that could have been considered a three-step drop). He had a couple seven-step drops off of play action, but I can see how one might want to split that hair to make a point.

In other words, that's possibly technically true, but this video doesn't include very single play.
Meh, who cares. Newton operated often (and well) out of shotgun last year and it didn't hurt the Panthers. Its a different time etc etc...
 

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Meh, who cares. Newton operated often (and well) out of shotgun last year and it didn't hurt the Panthers. Its a different time etc etc...
Carolina built their run blocking scheme around Newton lining up in the shotgun, though. I don't believe Dallas has - that was supposedly one of the issues with Murray moving from Dallas (outside zone / stretch) to Philly (where they did a lot of shotgun / inside zone).
 

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Meh, who cares. Newton operated often (and well) out of shotgun last year and it didn't hurt the Panthers. Its a different time etc etc...
I largely agree. But he damn well better get comfortable under center because the team struggles in short yardage situations as it is. Without the threat of even a three-step drop on 3rd & 1, they're going to have a hell of a time running against stacked boxes.

Also, to expand on what SN just said, the Cowboys do operate out of the shotgun quite a bit, but mostly on passing downs. The stretch play was devastating with Murray and it could be a real weapon with Elliott, so they would be stupid to take that tool out of their kit.
 

Kenny F'ing Powers

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Carolina built their run blocking scheme around Newton lining up in the shotgun, though. I don't believe Dallas has - that was supposedly one of the issues with Murray moving from Dallas (outside zone / stretch) to Philly (where they did a lot of shotgun / inside zone).
Not that you can rebuild the offense in a few weeks, but you'd hope this coaching staff could cobble together enough plays to keep their QB working out of formations and plays that hes comfortable with. If they can't, they aren't earning their dollar dollar bills.
 

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Terrence Williams needs to die in a fire already. Figures someone from Baylor either doesn't know the rules or thinks they don't apply to him.
 

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There's no way Bailey was going to miss a last second FG. I don't care how long, the guy is a robot.

Thoughts on Dak?
 

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Obviously Williams erred majorly on the last play, but I still have to rank him third of the goats just in the receiver corps. Beasley drops a sure TD on the first drive, and Dez, God bless him, has to start finishing those plays.

I thought the offensive line was absolutely dreadful too - Doug Free was rancid especially. They got pushed around all day by the Giants interior. Some of that contributed to a meh debut for Elliott, but even then I thought Alfred Morris looked better than he did.

I felt like Dak played well enough in his first ever start, but those high throws are going to get him burned.

Ultimately, it was a continuation of last season when they just didn't finish enough drives with seven points to win a winnable game.
 
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LondonSox

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Bailey is so elite right now, top tier kicker, if not the best very very close to it. Helps to be playing a dome of course.

A few years back I was arguing we didn't know yet between the dome and the fact that random kickers who vanish post good seasons, but he's just got better and better. That argument looks dumb as hell, but we see from one hit wonders like Parkey how the short term can be fools gold with kickers. There';s no reason to question anything about Bailey now and having an elite kicker is just such a nice thing to have in the pocket.
 

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Terrence Williams needs to die in a fire already. Figures someone from Baylor either doesn't know the rules or thinks they don't apply to him.
I needed the Cowboys in my pool and also to avoid "The Giants have to be the favorites to win the division!!" nonsense that is covering the NYC airwaves this morning. The Giants couldn't move the ball, their defense played a bit better than I expected, but to me this was a game the Cowboys should have had. Williams screwed up, but did Garrett have the subs tell everyone in the huddle "get the hell out of bounds?" Maybe he did and Williams is just that stupid, but I wanted to kill Jason Garrett after that last play.

I think Dak looked pretty good. Some bad throws and certainly some misses, but generally he played smart and threw a good ball. I thought Elliott could have done more with the opportunities he got. Having followed him very closely in college, I have no doubt that he will look a lot better than that many times throughout the season.
 

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Obviously Williams erred majorly on the last play, but I still have to rank him third of the goats just in the receiver corps. Beasley drops a sure TD on the first drive, and Dez, God bless him, has to start finishing those plays.

I thought the offensive line was absolutely dreadful too - Doug Free was rancid especially. They got pushed around all day by the Giants interior. Some of that contributed to a meh debut for Elliott, but even then I thought Alfred Morris looked better than he did.

I felt like Dak played well enough in his first ever start, but those high throws are going to get him burned.

Ultimately, it was a continuation of last season when they just didn't finish enough drives with seven points to win a winnable game.
This all true. But still, they had a chance to set up a last-second field goal and Williams decided an extra two yards to his stats was more important than winning the God damn game. Also, this wasn't a one-time thing like Beasley dropping that TD (he's usually pretty sure-handed) but it is a recurring problem with Williams. His football IQ is nil and he just can't be depended on to do anything. If he's not wide open due to some busted coverage, he's completely invisible. I was hoping his inability to do anything as the lead dog last season would cause the powers that be to decide to bring in someone else to compete for the #2 WR job. Naturally, that was too much to ask for from that group.

As to the bolded, this wasn't just an issue last season. It has been a recurring problem for this team for years. With the exception of 2014, the team has had a depressing inability to win games. That includes finishing drives and coming up with a stop when needed. They just don't do it.
 

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Should he have to? I feel like that's something someone who's been playing football his whole life should have burned into instinct.
I guess you can make that case, but I know that when Brian Westbrook did his famous fantasy-football killing slide at the 1, Reid had told the subs to tell everyone that if they looked like they were going to score then just get down. With no time outs it is important for players not to follow the instincts they use on 90% of their plays (I will be dispensing more genius throughout the day as I feel appropriate..........). I don't know. I just hate Jason Garrett and think he is a nincompoop.
 

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I guess you can make that case, but I know that when Brian Westbrook did his famous fantasy-football killing slide at the 1, Reid had told the subs to tell everyone that if they looked like they were going to score then just get down. With no time outs it is important for players not to follow the instincts they use on 90% of their plays (I will be dispensing more genius throughout the day as I feel appropriate..........). I don't know. I just hate Jason Garrett and think he is a nincompoop.
That's a special case, though. Expecting a football player not to score is like expecting an elephant to lose some weight. We're talking about a situation that Williams has likely practiced a million times between his time at Baylor and Dallas. Two-minute drills are practiced extensively in today's game, which means he has had that very instinct hammered into his brain via repetition. The fact that he didn't go out of bounds on a play that started with :13 (give or take) is evidence that he either wasn't paying attention or doesn't give a shit. Whether or not Garrett communicated to the team that there were no timeouts left and that they needed to get out of bounds is unknowable at this time, so I'm left with only one conclusion: Williams is a Grade A bonehead. I'm comfortable with that conclusion because we have ample evidence to support it.

There is plenty of evidence to support your thesis, as well. Garrett has shown himself to have a shocking lack of football IQ. His team reflects that, which is why I've known them for years as the dumbest team in the league.
 

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I haven't seen the game yet but was listening to the Cowboys' broadcast on my way back from fishing yesterday. Their announcers were all over Williams for not getting out of bounds. They said that receivers practice going out of bounds in tight time situations, literally every day. Their comments right off the bat were that the error was inexcusable. Thank you Terence.
 

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But if Williams gets out of bounds immediately, that would have been about a 62 yard FG attempt. I mean, yeah he should have done it anyway, but you can kind of see his thought process towards picking up more yards first.