2016 Cowboys: Giddyup for Elliot

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Talk that Greg Hardy won't be asked back for 2016.

Per Jason Cole at Bleacher Report (yeah I know, consider the source, which I won't link it because it's a video hot take), it's because he didn't take great care of himself upon his return to the field.

"Hardy partied a lot during the season and simply was not in great physical shape as the season wore on and on and on," Cole says, adding that Hardy arrived late for meetings and became a distraction.
 

Bosoxen

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Good fucking riddance. I don't even want to dignify the topic with any further keystrokes.

With that said, I hope they apply the same anti-partying logic this offseason. I think we all know why.
 

dbn

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Good fucking riddance. I don't even want to dignify the topic with any further keystrokes.

With that said, I hope they apply the same anti-partying logic this offseason. I think we all know why.
You worry too much.

 

Bosoxen

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Well, so much for the value of taking him in the second round. Doesn't look like he's going to be able to stay away from the dope.

It's a good thing Lawrence made such big improvements in 2015 because he's going to be the lead dog in 2016 and beyond.
 

Bosoxen

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Francesca just said there are reports that Cowboys are trading into the top spot in draft.
I can't find anything regarding that - not even any rumors. Did he mention a source or did he just pull it out of his ass?
 

Valek123

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Only thing that I could find was this from March 16th, nothing on a first pick jump...

Mike Francesa said on WFAN that Cowboys are contacting teams in the back part of the 1st round on a trade back into the 1st if Lynch slips

 

Bosoxen

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Great. That just about guarantees that they'll draft Bonehead Joey Bosa.

So much for 2016 being better than 2015.
 

Greg29fan

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Great. That just about guarantees that they'll draft Bonehead Joey Bosa.

So much for 2016 being better than 2015.
All the talk from Valley Ranch is that Bosa isn't very high on their draft board.

I'm hoping for Jaylen Ramsey but if it's Ezekiel Elliott that's fine too, although 4 is awful high for a running back any more.
 

Bosoxen

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My order of top 10 desired outcomes goes a little something like this:

1. Trade down
2. Trade down
3. Trade down
4. Trade down
5. Trade down
6. Trade down
7. Trade down
8. Pick Ramsey
9. Trade down
10. Trade down

Elliot would be a total waste at #4. Ramsey would be nice but this team has way more needs than to use a top 10 pick on a corner for the second time in less than five years. Oh, by the way, that other corner turned out to be a huge dud.

I do not trust that they will make the correct decision and I just know they're going to be paying for that decision five years from now.
 

Bosoxen

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Yup. So much for the restraint they showed two years ago by not picking Manziel. The past two drafts have been more business as usual. Show Jerruh a little success and he immediately switches to GFIN mode and completely sets the franchise back again. Wash, rinse, repeat.

Naturally, I'm getting murdered on Facebook for not liking the pick. How dare I not think the Cowboys were just a running back away from winning 20 straight Super Bowls?! Sometimes I wonder why I even bother trying to bring logic and reason into the discussion.
 

RetractableRoof

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They do need an uber running back... I just don't know why they can't get one in the 3rd or 4th round like the Broncos used to. I don't believe this is a generational running back.
 

Super Nomario

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Yup. So much for the restraint they showed two years ago by not picking Manziel. The past two drafts have been more business as usual. Show Jerruh a little success and he immediately switches to GFIN mode and completely sets the franchise back again. Wash, rinse, repeat.

Naturally, I'm getting murdered on Facebook for not liking the pick. How dare I not think the Cowboys were just a running back away from winning 20 straight Super Bowls?! Sometimes I wonder why I even bother trying to bring logic and reason into the discussion.
I think I'm with you on this. In order for Elliott to be worth the #4 pick, he has to make the Dallas running game so dominant that they are basically unstoppable. They were already awesome two years ago with Murray and good last year with McFadden. How much better can they really get?

As an impartial observer, I'm kind of curious. I suspect there's diminishing returns and Elliott helps the running game but not enough to justify his draft position. But there's at least a chance they become an unstoppable juggernaut, so I'm interested as a thought experiment ...
 

Hoodie Sleeves

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I think I'm with you on this. In order for Elliott to be worth the #4 pick, he has to make the Dallas running game so dominant that they are basically unstoppable. They were already awesome two years ago with Murray and good last year with McFadden. How much better can they really get?
Serviceable-to-good running backs are so easy to find that I think that in order to justify #4, you basically have to be sure the kid is going to be Adrian Peterson, and even then, its questionable that its the best use of resources.

Dallas has a lot of problems - and they didn't really fix any of them with that pick
 

Bosoxen

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Who did you want, Bosoxen?
No one. I wanted them to trade down. They weren't going to get anyone with that pick that would make any tangible difference for that trainwreck of a franchise.

This sums up my position nicely:

Serviceable-to-good running backs are so easy to find that I think that in order to justify #4, you basically have to be sure the kid is going to be Adrian Peterson, and even then, its questionable that its the best use of resources.

Dallas has a lot of problems - and they didn't really fix any of them with that pick
Hoodie Sleeves, you and I should hang out.
 

soxfan121

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The Cowboys secondary is a trainwreck and there was a generational CB sitting there waiting for them and they choose the shiny, new toy of a RB. That sums up the last 20 years of Cowboys football.
This. Passing on Ramsey will haunt the cowboys for years to come.
 

BigSoxFan

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Is Ramsey really a "generational" talent? Definitely should be a good player though.
 

Bosoxen

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Right. I agree with them, to a certain extent, but I think they're overstating just a tad. If Ramsey were generational, he would have been long gone by the time the Cowboys picked.
 

Super Nomario

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Right. I agree with them, to a certain extent, but I think they're overstating just a tad. If Ramsey were generational, he would have been long gone by the time the Cowboys picked.
The Cowboys were picking fourth - there is no "long gone" that high. And the last DB to go top three was Shawn Springs in 1997.
 

Bosoxen

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Sigh. That whole post was dripping with hyperbole, as a response to overblown hyperbole.
 

Greg29fan

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They also tried to blow up their entire day two to trade up and draft Paxton Lynch.

Safe to say Jerrah is firmly back in charge of the ship.
 

RedOctober3829

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Sigh. That whole post was dripping with hyperbole, as a response to overblown hyperbole.
I'm not sure calling Ramsey a generational talent is overblown. Many people had him as the best player in the entire draft regardless of position. If he lives up to projections, he'll be one of the top 2 or 3 CBs in the game. Those players are generational talents and it fit IMO the biggest need of the team.
 

Greg29fan

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I don't think Dallas's secondary is that bad. IMO it's more their pass rush is historically bad and exposes everybody behind them way too often.
 

Super Nomario

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I don't think Dallas's secondary is that bad. IMO it's more their pass rush is historically bad and exposes everybody behind them way too often.
It would have been interesting to see if they would have gone Bosa if San Diego hadn't. I think I like Bosa for Dallas even more than Ramsey.
 

BigSoxFan

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About 95% of my Cowboys fan friends are convinced the Cowboys just drafted Emmitt Smith 2.0. The other 5% are only convinced he'll only be a poor man's Eric Dickerson.
 

Bosoxen

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And then there's Bosoxen, who is about to break everything in the house because of that story that they refused to trade down.

FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCK!
 

Greg29fan

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About 95% of my Cowboys fan friends are convinced the Cowboys just drafted Emmitt Smith 2.0. The other 5% are only convinced he'll only be a poor man's Eric Dickerson.
I was shocked how many posters on their website absolutely loved it - Jerrah has the sheep right where he wants them.
 

Bosoxen

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These fucking assholes are just TRYING to make me a Texans fan, aren't they?
 

Greg29fan

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Three rounds in and Dallas has addressed exactly zero of their needs. That's well done.
 

Bosoxen

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What a fucking horrendous draft. If they come away with two players, they'll be lucky.

This is why I quit following the draft. The Cowboys always fuck it up and it ends up being a waste of time.
 

Greg29fan

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What a fucking horrendous draft. If they come away with two players, they'll be lucky.

This is why I quit following the draft. The Cowboys always fuck it up and it ends up being a waste of time.
Honestly they've been really really good in the draft the last like five years or so outside of the Mo Claiborne pick. This year they had a chance to really do well with high picks the first three rounds and fucked it up beyond belief.
 

Bosoxen

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Have they, though? They've improved, no doubt about it, but improving on shitty doesn't necessarily mean one is "really good".

2015: I consider this draft a big swing and a miss. Sure, they got Byron Jones - who should be a cornerstone of the secondary for years - and maybe Gregory can stay on the field. I'll concede Green a medical red shirt and allow for him to be depth on the O-line and possibly a replacement for Doug Free. So that's one surefire player and two big question marks. To say nothing of the fact that they actively avoided running back, a position that had players all up and down the board. Big, fat F.

2014: Hard to argue with Martin, Lawrence and Hitchens. Though Lawrence now has the dreaded "can't stay on the field" label (which, by the way, gives them a matching set at DE) and Hitchens appears to have injury concerns of his own. No 3rd or 6th round picks in this draft make it impossible for it not to be top-heavy. This one's an A-, solely for the presence of Martin and the avoidance of Manziel.

2013: Three long-term starters came out of this draft. But this draft also saw the head-scratching decision to select Escobar in the 2nd (perhaps trying to keep up with the Kraftses?). That, alone, knocks it down to a B.

2012: Claiborne is still a starter by default - one has to wonder if the coaching staff saw enough improvement in him to stay away from Ramsey - and Crawford only became a starter a couple years after being drafted. By no means a slouch, he turned out to be the anchor of this draft. Wilber is a situational player, at best, and Hanna must have pictures of Jean Jones in provocative poses. Either that or he must really suck at blocking. I only give it a D because there are still four players on the active roster.

2011: I hope the Jaylon Smith situation sounded familiar to others, because that was shades of Bruce Carter to me. Perhaps it's because of where they went to school but I haven't heard a fraction of the outcry that I heard when Carter was drafted. Which is weird because Carter was guaranteed to play at some point - Smith, not so much. This draft is weird because only one of those players drafted in that draft is still on the team, even though it was only five years ago. Still, this was probably the best draft of the bunch.

The worst part about going through that list of picks is that they've managed just two significant contributors in the 4th round or later (Hitchens and Harris). Randle was drafted in the 5th round but we all know how that ended up.

So, if I may pick a nit, they've been "pretty good" not "really good". Unfortunately, they seem to be going back to their old tricks with the past two drafts at a time when they desperately need players. Combine that with an awful cap situation and we're almost guaranteed to see them struggle to get their heads back above water this season.
 

dcmissle

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Jerry says he is kicking himself in the ass for not overpaying for Paxton; Stephen allegedly came to the rescue again:

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2016/05/02/jerry-jones-wanted-to-overpay-for-paxton-lynch-stephen-jones-said-no-way/

I'm not sure how to process this. Is it all about Jerry's feelings? Is it put out there to make Stephen look good? Both?

In any case, nice way to shit on the QB you did draft. It is a fair argument that he shouldn't get his feelers hurt about this, and if he does, he is not fit for the position. Point taken.

But this kind of navel gazing is nonsense and underscores the supersized egos of a-hole owners.
 

Bosoxen

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I'm going to go with Occam's Razor on that: Jerry shot off his mouth. Just like that nonsense with Adrian Peterson a couple years back, Jerry can't help but run his mouth any chance he gets.

Senility and a massive ego are not a good combination.
 

Super Nomario

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Over at ITP, Joseph Ferraiola and I looked at Dallas' decision to draft Elliott: http://insidethepylon.com/nfl/teams-nfl/nfc-east/dallas-cowboys/2016/05/10/was-drafting-ezekiel-elliott-a-wise-decision-by-the-dallas-cowboys/

There’s little precedent for a running game with this much talent. Left tackle Tyron Smith, center Travis Frederick, and right guard Zack Martin are all former first-round picks and among the best players at their positions. Left guard La’el Collins might have been a first-round pick as well, but teams were scared off by a murder investigation – ultimately absolving Collins – that cast uncertainty on his status at draft time. Right tackle Doug Free might be the “weak link,” but he’s a fine player in his own right. Add the multi-talented Elliott, and perhaps the Dallas running game reaches historic heights, running roughshod over the NFL.

...

The counter-argument is that the Cowboys run game was already excellent in 2014 with Murray, a fine back but not an elite talent, and very good in 2015 with retreads like McFadden and Randle. Even without Romo and Bryant for much of the season, the Cowboys finished 10th in time of possession in 2015 and their plays per drive remained virtually the same as in 2014 (5.82 vs 5.83).
 

cgori

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I'm going to go with Occam's Razor on that: Jerry shot off his mouth. Just like that nonsense with Adrian Peterson a couple years back, Jerry can't help but run his mouth any chance he gets.

Senility and a massive ego are not a good combination.
I re-read this after I went looking for the long-form journalism thread. It's 18 months old but breathtaking in light of recent Manziel-related events.
 

Bosoxen

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I still think not trading down was a huge mistake. Elliott may very well be the real deal but for him to be that one piece to push them over the top, way too many things have to break in their favor. I know poker metaphors are overused but this move feels like going all-in with a three-of-a-kind.

I re-read this after I went looking for the long-form journalism thread. It's 18 months old but breathtaking in light of recent Manziel-related events.
That article still makes my blood boil.

Side note that will probably only interest me: they mention in that article that they'd be moving to their new headquarters in 2016. That complex is being built right across the street from my office (unsurprisingly, it's massive). I can say unequivocally that it will not be ready for the 2016 season.
 

Rick Burlesons Yam Bag

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Sorry to pop in here, but a few things:

1) You can't evaluate the 2015 Cowboys draft without giving the Cowboys FO a hand jackson for La'el Collins. I was literally screaming at my tv for the Eagles to grab him in the seventh round because the whole thing seemed stupid. Like the Tunsil crap x1,000 this season. And the Cowboys were apparently on the phone with him as the final selections were being made. I am not one to generally swoon over the Cowboys doing good stuff, but this was a pretty slick maneuver and it kind of puts a nice shine on that draft.

2) I think people are massively undervaluing the Elliott pick. First off, RB is one of those positions that has been ripped to shreds over the last 5-6 seasons as people view the position as fungible.......but in truth, it isn't. It is not as valuable as has been historically perceived, but a good RB is now an RB, a WR and an extra blocker in 60+% of the formations an average team runs. Elliott is going to destroy the league and will keep defenders in the box for Bryant to cause havoc. Would Ramsey have been a better pick? Yes, I think he probably would have been, but Elliott is a solid A- to me, not the D+ many are portraying.

While I do hope your team perishes uncomfortably from a Zika-bird AIDs viral hybrid, I think they drafted pretty well.
 

Bosoxen

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Whether or not Collins should be included in the 2015 draft is an argument in semantics. So there's really no reason to participate in that circle jerk of an argument. He unquestionably makes the team better. In the end, that's all that matters.

In a vacuum, Elliott is a solid pick. He's versatile and will be a really good fit in that offense. But my evaluation wasn't done in a vacuum. Had they selected one of the myriad running back options last year (or signed Rawls, since we're including UDFA as draft picks in this exercise), they would have been free to select Ramsey or trade down. That opportunity cost is why I knock that selection.

This all gets me back to my point: one bad decision begets another. The decision to go with Joseph Randle as the lead dog led to catastrophic results in 2015 and could still affect them in the near future. That all points to a failure of big picture planning. Which, as we all know, is a cornerstone of Jerry Jones decision-making. This leads to the logical conclusion that, as much as Stephen is starting to assert himself within the organization, the clown still very much has his hands on the wheel. Which should be a comforting thought to Mssr Yammer.
 

Dogman

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Why are you sorry, Yammer? Nice to see you post again and the forum would love to have more contributions from you.

Hopefully that happens.