The Offense

alwyn96

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Rudy Pemberton said:
Yeah, the Sox have been a bit lucky...their run differential is worst in the AL; and fourth worst in all of baseball.
 
Good news is that they aren't that far out of it, but jeez, it's hard to feel real good about much at this point.
 
I think the fact that they do have a good amount of talent on the team that at least in the recent past were capable of white-hot, team-carrying streaks and have two potentially electric contributors in AAA (Rodriguez and Castillo) is what's keeping me in it. They're amazingly only 3.5 games back - we've seen teams blow bigger leads than that in late September.
 
I still think (maybe naively) that this team still has a few hot streaks in them.
 

Stan Papi Was Framed

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I'd like to see Hanley get some rest--here are his recent numbers (from redsoxstats)
 
99.7 mph, 95.3 mph, 87.4 mph Hanley's batted ball velocity for three two week segments of the season. Last coincides w/ shoulder injury.
 

why not get him some time off if he needs it (which he seems to)?  I realize they need his bat at this moment in particular with the lineup struggling, but it seems like a bad idea to keep sending him out there if he's not healthy.  Rusney could be called up.

 
 
 
 
 
 
 

 



 
 

Rasputin

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Rudy Pemberton said:
Yeah, the Sox have been a bit lucky...their run differential is worst in the AL; and fourth worst in all of baseball.
 
Good news is that they aren't that far out of it, but jeez, it's hard to feel real good about much at this point.
 
Getting better results than you should when you're not playing well is something to feel good about.
 
A 5-5 road trip against decent teams including a west coast swing is something to feel good about.
 
Beating two of the best pitchers in the league is something to feel good about.
 
The last trip around the rotation, the Sox have allowed a total of 10 runs.
 
There's a ton of stuff to feel good at this point. Since the end of the Washington series, this is the time with the most things to feel good about.
 

WenZink

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Rasputin said:
 
Getting better results than you should when you're not playing well is something to feel good about.
 
A 5-5 road trip against decent teams including a west coast swing is something to feel good about.
 
Beating two of the best pitchers in the league is something to feel good about.
 
The last trip around the rotation, the Sox have allowed a total of 10 runs.
 
There's a ton of stuff to feel good at this point. Since the end of the Washington series, this is the time with the most things to feel good about.
 
Amen to all that.
 
In the immortal words of the insufferable Danny-from-Quincy, "All we have to do is win 8 in a row and we're right back in this thing!"  With all the poor performances, we;re only 3.5 out of 1st.
 

soxhop411

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@JMastrodonato: Xander Bogaerts on Red Sox troubles with RISP: Its starting to feel like last year

Not a good quote Xander
 

mauidano

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soxhop411 said:
@JMastrodonato: Xander Bogaerts on Red Sox troubles with RISP: Its starting to feel like last year

Not a good quote Xander
Sometimes the truth hurts.
 

joe dokes

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Is it better that last night they seemed to have a bunch of at 'em balls (actual tough luck), instead of not-really tough luck (low Babip but not many LD)?
 

grimshaw

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Cherington was on D & C this morning and really didn't suggest any specifics for improving the offense.  He mostly just mentioned BABIP, underlying numbers, injuries and bad luck.  They were pretty stock answers given his listening audience and buffoons he was interacting with.  He may have hinted that having a set lineup/roles would help too, but I'd have to listen again.
 
He also mentioned that Hanley was their left fielder and that he was improving, and looked ok on the road.  Kind of maddening answers.
 

Rovin Romine

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I'm not sure what Ben is supposed to say.
 
The most effective AAA bat thus far has been JBJ with an .857 OPS.  He's 0 for 11 since his call-up to MLB. 
 
However, Castillo appears to be heating up at Pawtucket.  http://www.milb.com/player/index.jsp?sid=t533&player_id=628329#/gamelogs/R/hitting/2015/MINORS
 
***
Beyond that though, it looks like there's no help from the farm. 
 
Brentz is having another passible season, but isn't knocking on the door. 
 
Marrero seems to be establishing his modest batting skills at AAA, but wouldn't be an offensive upgrade.
 
Craig (SSS) is killing lefties but exhibiting his ML suck against AAA righties.   
 
Shaw is equally bad against lefties and righties.  
 
***
There's also no one to free off the bench.  Brock's played a lot in May but has clearly cooled off. 
 

Plympton91

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The continued difficulty putting runs on the board is frustrating to watch/follow, but I concur with the Sox party line of it being a temporary phenomenon.  Betts is hitting well but not getting results, Ortiz was in a perfectly normal early season slump, Napoli and Nava are scuffling badly but also not worse than they have at times in the past, Ramirez is probably still dealing with some stiffness/pain in his injured shoulder that will dissipate as long as he doesn't re-aggravate it,  The two things that worry me: They should have planned for Sandoval's struggles vs. lefties, and they couldn't have been planning on getting much out of the catcher position, but even they are both so epic in their suck right now that at least some improvement should come by accident.
 
So, with normalization of babip for Betts, normal ebbs and flow of the season for Ortiz, Napoli, and Nava, and Ramirez slowly approaching 100%, my confidence is that the offense will be there.  That is reinforced by the positive signs from Xander lately, who has been fine relative to ML SS, but not as good as we have good reason to believe he can be.   Add in some at bats eventually for Castillo, and the improvement in the pitching under Willis, and I'm getting cautiously optimistic again.  
 
It's still way early.  The Nats just took over first place, and they are a near-perfect team.  Teams with flaws take a little longer to find their stride.
 

nvalvo

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Plympton91 said:
The two things that worry me: They should have planned for Sandoval's struggles vs. lefties, and they couldn't have been planning on getting much out of the catcher position, but even they are both so epic in their suck right now that at least some improvement should come by accident.
 
 
 
The plan for Sandoval's struggles vs. lefties was that the lineup would be loaded with players who have, in their careers, mashed lefties. That most of them, inexplicably, haven't done so this year has exposed Sandoval, who's done *much* worse in that split than the FO would have had any reason to have projected. 
 
Sandoval vs LHP, career OPS: .683; 2014: .563; 2015: .142
 
The problem is that most of the lineup has underperformed, in some cases dramatically, against LHP. 
 
Napoli vs LHP, career OPS: .904; 2015: .720.
Pedroia vs LHP, career OPS: .846; 2015: .697
Ortiz vs LHP, career OPS: .807; 2015: .338 
Bogaerts vs LHP, career OPS: .765; 2015: .658
Betts vs LHP, 2014 OPS: .843; 2015: .530
 
And in the plus column:
 
Victorino vs LHP, career OPS: .878; 2015: 1.045
 
Ramirez vs LHP, career OPS: .921; 2015: 1.182
 
Over-performance by Hanley and (in the tiniest of samples) Victorino isn't enough to counterbalance Ortiz losing .500 points of OPS against LHP. 
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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The Celtbot said:
 
So Buster Olney throwing shit against the wall is the team being "after Stephen Vogt"?
 
I have my doubts Vogt is available considering he isn't even arbitration eligible yet (so he's inexpensive enough for the low-budget A's) and the A's just traded one pretty damn good (and just as inexpensive) catcher in the off-season in order to open up playing time for Vogt.  Unless they've got a Blake Swihart of their own beating down the door, I don't see why the A's would be eager to trade Vogt anywhere this year.
 

Al Zarilla

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Red(s)HawksFan said:
 
So Buster Olney throwing shit against the wall is the team being "after Stephen Vogt"?
 
I have my doubts Vogt is available considering he isn't even arbitration eligible yet (so he's inexpensive enough for the low-budget A's) and the A's just traded one pretty damn good (and just as inexpensive) catcher in the off-season in order to open up playing time for Vogt.  Unless they've got a Blake Swihart of their own beating down the door, I don't see why the A's would be eager to trade Vogt anywhere this year.
Well, the A's eventually get rid of all of their good players (who was the last good player to retire an Oakland A?). They may be ready to throw in the towel on this year, and If they can get a good prospect or two for Vogt, I have no doubt they'll pull the trigger. There are rumors about Reddick and even Sonny Gray too.

Re Vogt as a Red Sox, he's kind of hard to watch, unathletic looking as he is, but he apparently can hit, he busts his ass all the time, and I'm pretty sure he's an excellent clubhouse guy. Sox can absolutely use help at C. He can also play first base, even some OF. If the Sox still think they can make a serious run at it this year, they should go after Vogt.
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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Al Zarilla said:
Well, the A's eventually get rid of all of their good players (who was the last good player to retire an Oakland A?). They may be ready to throw in the towel on this year, and If they can get a good prospect or two for Vogt, I have no doubt they'll pull the trigger. There are rumors about Reddick and even Sonny Gray too.

Re Vogt as a Red Sox, he's kind of hard to watch, unathletic looking as he is, but he apparently can hit, he busts his ass all the time, and I'm pretty sure he's an excellent clubhouse guy. Sox can absolutely use help at C. He can also play first base, even some OF. If the Sox still think they can make a serious run at it this year, they should go after Vogt.
 
 
There's a difference between suggesting Vogt isn't likely on the trade block this year (what I said) and saying he's going to be an A for life (not what I said).  Vogt is pre-arb, which means he's got a year or two before he gets into that "too expensive to keep" category.
 
The only way I really see Vogt getting moved is if Beane is convinced he's playing over his head and decides to cash in before he comes back to earth.  While he's having a very good season, his career OPS prior to the season was .694.  I'm fairly confident in saying his current four-digit OPS is not sustainable.  I would really hate to see the Red Sox pay a cost commensurate with a 1.000 OPS player only to get a .700 OPS player in return.
 

Al Zarilla

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Red(s)HawksFan said:
 
 
There's a difference between suggesting Vogt isn't likely on the trade block this year (what I said) and saying he's going to be an A for life (not what I said).  Vogt is pre-arb, which means he's got a year or two before he gets into that "too expensive to keep" category.
 
The only way I really see Vogt getting moved is if Beane is convinced he's playing over his head and decides to cash in before he comes back to earth.  While he's having a very good season, his career OPS prior to the season was .694.  I'm fairly confident in saying his current four-digit OPS is not sustainable.  I would really hate to see the Red Sox pay a cost commensurate with a 1.000 OPS player only to get a .700 OPS player in return.
Vogt had a really good first half last year too before falling off a lot. Maybe he's finally figured something out hitting-wise. Certainly, Ben should try to negotiate on career numbers, although the A's would want a pop for the hot start again this year. Players from the  vaunted Red Sox farm system haven't been as great as we thought (although the ones up now are still very young), so maybe at this point we shouldn't be so overprotective of them when considering trades.
 

grimshaw

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Olney was just throwing something out there - but his educated guessing is more informed than ours and he'd have an idea on who is or could be available.
 
A .700 OPS catcher would be a vast improvement over what we have and that performance would not be so good as to block Swihart for a significant amount of time.
If he's a markedly improved player, all the better.  One would assume the Red Sox would have fair judgment as to what sort of performance to expect and what the proper cost would be if trying to make a move.
 

absintheofmalaise

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With the way the pitching staff is performing now I really don't think the Sox would want them to have to get used to yet another catcher and possibly have them take a step backwards during the learning process. 
 

Rovin Romine

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grimshaw said:
A .700 OPS catcher would be a vast improvement over what we have and that performance would not be so good as to block Swihart for a significant amount of time.
If he's a markedly improved player, all the better.  One would assume the Red Sox would have fair judgment as to what sort of performance to expect and what the proper cost would be if trying to make a move.
 
Very true.  However, unless the rest of the lineup fixes itself, this will make no practical difference as far as post season contention in 2015.  Also, it will cost us trade chips.  
 
There could be a good argument to be made in sending Swihart down so that he does not screw up his swing.   But I don't think the Sox should approach this one potential trade from a "saving the season" perspective. 
 

grimshaw

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Rovin Romine said:
 
Very true.  However, unless the rest of the lineup fixes itself, this will make no practical difference as far as post season contention in 2015.  Also, it will cost us trade chips.  
 
There could be a good argument to be made in sending Swihart down so that he does not screw up his swing.   But I don't think the Sox should approach this one potential trade from a "saving the season" perspective. 
Agreed.  The best options are probably still internal aside from 1B or LF depending on where Hanley ends up situated.  Plus, Hanigan will be back at some point too.
 

Plympton91

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Maybe if Victorino could play more than a game and a half without injuring himself, they could have him lead off against lefthanders.
 
At least it was another good game for Bogaerts (on offense anyway). 
 

soxhop411

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@RyanHannable: And with that, the final out, the Red Sox finish 0-for-6 with RISP and have fallen below the Mendoza line for the year (.199).

GJGE. I am giving you a standing ovation
 

Stan Papi Was Framed

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Hanley needs to rest.  seems pretty clear he is not himself.  not helping at all, hasn't helped all month.  a healthy Hanley can make a difference.  
 

MikeM

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P'tucket said:
He has a .215 BABIP in May despite an 18% LD rate.  The latter isn't great, but the former is ridiculous given his contact.
 
Oh, and there isn't anybody else to put there.
 
Probably would feel better about that atm if i could actually recall the last time he drew a walk (going back to look it up - 5/11). 
 
Could always give Castillo a shot in a day or 2, assuming that call is coming.  
 

P'tucket rhymes with...

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MikeM said:
 
Probably would feel better about that atm if i could actually recall the last time he drew a walk (going back to look it up - 5/11). 
 
Could always give Castillo a shot in a day or 2, assuming that call is coming.  
It's interesting--I was looking at his swing rates on Fangraphs, and he doesn't appear to be passing up on many opportunities to walk.  His O-swing rate is about five points below league average.  His K rate is ridiculously low, fwiw.  My initial impression was that opposing pitchers are challenging him in the zone, and he hasn't quite adjusted to stuff outside his wheelhouse yet to really make them pay.
 

Savin Hillbilly

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The Sox are on a pace to score 67 runs this month. They haven't scored that few in a month with at least 20 games played in my lifetime. Not even in 1968. Even if you go back to the deadball era, in the 1914-20 period the Sox never had a month with >20 games and <70 runs. 
 
The suck has become epic.
 

grimshaw

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It's not like they were facing Yu Darvish that series either.  Wandy Rodriguez had already been DFA'd this year and hasn't been relevant for a few years.
 
On a management level:
Is every pitcher facing them executing their game plans perfectly?  
Are the Red Sox watching video/prepping for opposing pitchers adequately? 
If they aren't video guys, are hitters open to instruction or guidance or are they "proud veterans?"
Are the Red Sox unable to make in game adjustments? 
 
What does Chili Davis do all day?
Are they being outcoached on every level?
What are their major malfunctions?
 
I believe those are the issues that need addressing before examining things on a more executive or scouting level.
 

lexrageorge

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It could be any of the above.  Or, more ominously, it could be the following:
 
a.) Pedroia, Napoli, Nava, Victorino all past their prime and well into their decline.  
 
b.) Betts, Bogaerts, Swihart going through the not totally unexpected growing pains. 
 
c.) Ramirez scuffling due to his shoulder injury.  
 
The last one is likely temporary.  Item (b) should (hopefully) improve, but to what degree is not known.  The first one seems very real, and is not easily fixed.  I should add one more:
 
d.) Ortiz (.316 OPS) and Sandoval (.142) struggles against lefties.
 
I'm guessing there will be some regression back to the mean for both.  90 combined plate appearances is still a small sample.  
 

glennhoffmania

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Sandoval's K rate as a righty is almost 30%.  We can't keep assuming regression will fix a bunch of problems when the fact is that several players simply aren't hitting well.
 

grimshaw

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lexrageorge said:
It could be any of the above.  Or, more ominously, it could be the following:
 
a.) Pedroia, Napoli, Nava, Victorino all past their prime and well into their decline.  
 
b.) Betts, Bogaerts, Swihart going through the not totally unexpected growing pains. 
 
c.) Ramirez scuffling due to his shoulder injury.  
 
The last one is likely temporary.  Item (b) should (hopefully) improve, but to what degree is not known.  The first one seems very real, and is not easily fixed.  I should add one more:
 
d.) Ortiz (.316 OPS) and Sandoval (.142) struggles against lefties.
 
I'm guessing there will be some regression back to the mean for both.  90 combined plate appearances is still a small sample.  
I think Pedey is fine.  The past 4 seasons he's had wRC+ of 114, 115, 99 and now 110.  I've noticed his foot speed is down, so wonder if that will affect some of his doubles becoming single going forward.  I think he's just pressing and pulling balls that should go opposite field.
 
I'm adding Ortiz to the "well into his decline phase,"  I was absolutely rip shit when they bid against themselves, gave in to public perception and extended him more than a year.  And I'm even more annoyed now that it is more apparent that this team needs Hanley there.  While a league average bat is needed for the lineup in multiple spots right now, Ortiz is that guy, but at the worst possible position to have it at.
 
They have to work out the Napoli/Ramirez thing.  If Napoli has to stick around - platoon him with Ortiz.
 
Betts OF
Pedey 2B
Hanley 1B
Napoli/Ortiz DH
Sandoval 3B
Bogaerts SS
Castillo OF
Victorino OF
Swihart
 
That lineup eliminates a plodder and adds a speedster as well.  They aren't putting any pressure on defenses which isn't helping either.  14 attempted steals and 5 caught on the year.
 

EricFeczko

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lexrageorge said:
It could be any of the above.  Or, more ominously, it could be the following:
 
a.) Pedroia, Napoli, Nava, Victorino all past their prime and well into their decline.  
 
b.) Betts, Bogaerts, Swihart going through the not totally unexpected growing pains. 
 
c.) Ramirez scuffling due to his shoulder injury.  
 
The last one is likely temporary.  Item (b) should (hopefully) improve, but to what degree is not known.  The first one seems very real, and is not easily fixed.  I should add one more:
 
d.) Ortiz (.316 OPS) and Sandoval (.142) struggles against lefties.
 
I'm guessing there will be some regression back to the mean for both.  90 combined plate appearances is still a small sample.  
Victorino has hit well in his 22 PA in may (.421/.500/.632). Though, he hasn't been able to stay healthy.
 
The offensive suck is really with the whole team right now. In terms of regular players, Xander has been the only league average or better hitter. Betts has a low batting average due to BABIP, but has been hitting for a lot of power (0.211 ISO), which gives him a decent 745 OPS. Ortiz is hitting at a 0.738 OPS, which is not good for a DH.

The big problems in may have actually been holt (509 OPS), swihart (412 OPS), and ramirez (0.512 OPS), who have comprised about a fifth of the at bats. Pedroia, Napoli, Nava, and sandoval are scuffling (sandoval's the worst at 0.639 OPS), but haven't been black holes either, however, they have performed well below average at their respective positions.
 

lexrageorge

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grimshaw said:
I think Pedey is fine.  The past 4 seasons he's had wRC+ of 114, 115, 99 and now 110.  I've noticed his foot speed is down, so wonder if that will affect some of his doubles becoming single going forward.  I think he's just pressing and pulling balls that should go opposite field.
 
I'm adding Ortiz to the "well into his decline phase,"  I was absolutely rip shit when they bid against themselves, gave in to public perception and extended him more than a year.  And I'm even more annoyed now that it is more apparent that this team needs Hanley there.  While a league average bat is needed for the lineup in multiple spots right now, Ortiz is that guy, but at the worst possible position to have it at.
 
I had Ortiz in the decline phase in my original, but I removed him as I had also listed him later.  Also, Ortiz has 0.973 OPS and 15 AB's/HR against right handed pitching, so I'm not anywhere near convinced he's finished, although I agree his best years are behind him.  
 
It's really his 6-47 w/ no HR's and no BB's against lefties that's killing him.  Even a 0.650 OPS in those 47 at bats would go a long way towards improving his overall numbers, and that would represent a decline of nearly 0.250 points in OPS from 2014.  So the level of suckitude here could be an artifact of the sample size as well. 
 

Savin Hillbilly

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grimshaw said:
I'm adding Ortiz to the "well into his decline phase,"  I was absolutely rip shit when they bid against themselves, gave in to public perception and extended him more than a year.  And I'm even more annoyed now that it is more apparent that this team needs Hanley there.  While a league average bat is needed for the lineup in multiple spots right now, Ortiz is that guy, but at the worst possible position to have it at.
 
While it certainly appears that Ortiz' skills have begun circling for their final descent, he's really not part of the problem right now. His OPS for May is .738, good for a 107 OPS+. Do you want better than that from your DH/#3 hitter? Sure. But if everyone in the lineup was performing that well relative to our expectations for their role, we'd have a May offense that was just kind of meh, not historically puke-riddled.
 

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lexrageorge said:
It could be any of the above.  Or, more ominously, it could be the following:
 
a.) Pedroia, Napoli, Nava, Victorino all past their prime and well into their decline.  
 
b.) Betts, Bogaerts, Swihart going through the not totally unexpected growing pains. 
 
c.) Ramirez scuffling due to his shoulder injury.  
 
The last one is likely temporary.  Item (b) should (hopefully) improve, but to what degree is not known.  The first one seems very real, and is not easily fixed.  I should add one more:
 
d.) Ortiz (.316 OPS) and Sandoval (.142) struggles against lefties.
 
I'm guessing there will be some regression back to the mean for both.  90 combined plate appearances is still a small sample.  
A) a age related decline is one thing, but falling of the cliff is another
Pedroia - hitting with RISP will normalize and he should be fine.

Napoli - I am willing to attribute the early season struggles to surgery and lack of off-season work. Hopefully, he starts to make positive strides. I am optimistic, but of course, lack of work in the off-season can have long lasting affects.

Nava - I think this is hard to call age related, and the performance is no longer a SSS since we saw the same thing last year. He is basically a 25th man on the roster and should be starting twice a month. He is exposed for what he is when he is a quasi-regular.

Victorino - especially considering the D he adds would be fine, except for the fact that his body is breaking down (certainly age related). He shouldn't be counted on to be more than a PT player at this point. And it has been painful to watch the production from this outfield, when he and Hanley are injured.

Papi - I would add him to the age related decline list. It had to happen at some point. I just think it is unrealistic to expect the same numbers of the past 2 years or so.

B) Absolutely correct. I think we can expect significant improvement from at least 2 of 3 young players going forward.

C) Ramirez - after the first 2 weeks post injury he is hitting the ball hard again as shown by ball speed over the last couple of days. In all likelihood, he will be the RS best hitter this year.

D) Sandoval vs lefties. Personally, I have seen enough and combined with his numbers from last year, I don't think this is a SSS that will show significant competent improvement. IMO, it is time to abandon switch hitting.

I do feel there is hope for a good offensive team this year. Certainly, getting Castillo up so we can see much less of Nava will help. That combined with improvement from the young players and Hanley's health. Napoli is really a key to lengthening the line up, so let's hope he breaks out of it. The alternatives for him are limited at this point (Holt).
 

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Savin Hillbilly said:
 
While it certainly appears that Ortiz' skills have begun circling for their final descent, he's really not part of the problem right now. His OPS for May is .738, good for a 107 OPS+. Do you want better than that from your DH/#3 hitter? Sure. But if everyone in the lineup was performing that well relative to our expectations for their role, we'd have a May offense that was just kind of meh, not historically puke-riddled.
It's not his bat in a vacuum, so much.  It's how him being entrenched is hurting the fielded team.  Granted getting less than nothing from catcher, and less than less nothing from 1B are currently worse.
 

Plympton91

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Rudy Pemberton said:
 
How so? Let's say there was no Ortiz; so they'd move Hanley to DH. Who plays LF? It's not as if Ortiz is blocking some stud player, and Hanley has hardly even been better than Papi.
 
Exactly, and again, it's not even Memorial Day yet.  There was a year not so long ago when Ortiz hadn't homered even once at this point of the season, and everyone on SoSH declared him done at that point.   Napoli will also end the season close to his career averages I bet.
 
The only problem with the offense that won't be solved by the passage of time is the $20 million 3B who needs a platoon partner in the first year of his deal.   Everything else will be just fine once the sample size increases, and will make even that longer-term problem seem smaller when it normalizes.
 
Patience.  And hope that the improvement in the pitching is real and not a small sample size fluke.
 

Toe Nash

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Rudy Pemberton said:
 
How so? Let's say there was no Ortiz; so they'd move Hanley to DH. Who plays LF? It's not as if Ortiz is blocking some stud player, and Hanley has hardly even been better than Papi.
Well, Hanley was hitting for a .949 OPS before he hurt himself playing the field. Even then, much of his offensive contribution was nullified by his poor defense. They're probably a better team with Holt in LF (assuming Holt could contribute defensively) and Hanley at DH than Hanley in LF and Ortiz at DH, unless Ortiz starts hitting well above-average (the average DH has a .738 OPS).
 
Additionally, with Castillo nearing readiness and Victorino still performing well, Ortiz is absolutely going to be blocking someone very soon. Next year (or if Vic gets hurt) I suppose the problem is solved, but I'm far from confident Hanley will improve very much in LF. And what if we get a return to form from Craig, or JBJ...
 
But yeah, Papi isn't really the problem...the problem is that they seem to have vastly over-estimated the ability of Ramirez to learn a new position.