Xavier Tillman to Celtics for 2 2nd round picks

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It'll be interesting to see how Joe slots Tillman into the big rotation. I'd imagine that Kornet holds his minutes for now, as they get a better idea of how to use X. I could see that shifting as we get towards the playoffs.
No matter how much fun it is to root for Kornet, I think Tillman is much more playable in the playoffs. This is no knock on Luke, he's a fun regular season player, but he's not built for the playoffs, in a similar way I still worry PP isn't built for it either
 

HomeRunBaker

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No matter how much fun it is to root for Kornet, I think Tillman is much more playable in the playoffs. This is no knock on Luke, he's a fun regular season player, but he's not built for the playoffs, in a similar way I still worry PP isn't built for it either
I would be very surprised if Tillman didn’t immediately step right into the rotation, taking Kornet’s role, on the nights one of KP or Horford are resting. There is an enormous difference in their basketball ability and with limited practices available post-ASB the best opportunity to acclimate Tillman to our schemes is in the regular season games.
 

DavidTai

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I would be very surprised if Tillman didn’t immediately step right into the rotation, taking Kornet’s role, on the nights one of KP or Horford are resting. There is an enormous difference in their basketball ability and with limited practices available post-ASB the best opportunity to acclimate Tillman to our schemes is in the regular season games.
With the way the Celtics have been using Kornet when KP and Horford -are- playing, I'd think on nights when Horford or KP are resting, they'll just plug in Kornet (for Porzingis) or Tillman (for Horford) and use the other off the bench a lot more frequently. They really do seem to like their 2BIGZ.
 

Leon Trotsky

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It seems like the 2BIGZ gives them the different looks on both defense and offense they have been looking for to keep them, or get them out of, ruts. Keeps the other team from loading up on either the Stock Exchange, or the 2BIGZ, and the J's work obviously with both schemes. Tillman gives them even more ability to do it.
 

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This is a real bummer. Was looking forward to this shot in the arm. Hopefully it’s just through the break.
27 games to figure out how to maximize his strengths, whether he can effectively play the clamps role and in what lineups. Should be enough
 

the moops

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You can’t take a physical prior to the trade. He missed a couple games prior to the deadline for “knee soreness” which could have been a cute way to shut him down or something more.
I don't think this is accurate. Before trades become official nearly every player undergoes a physical by the receiving team. Now, that can be waived, and maybe that was the case here
 

HomeRunBaker

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I don't think this is accurate. Before trades become official nearly every player undergoes a physical by the receiving team. Now, that can be waived, and maybe that was the case here
This isn’t even possible though. If it were then the night prior to the deadline, when each team has 5-6+ players being discussed for multiple deals….would half the team be getting physicals? Much of the time the player is not even aware he’s involved in talks as the last thing you want is your own players thinking that you don’t want them.
 

PedroKsBambino

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This isn’t even possible though. If it were then the night prior to the deadline, when each team has 5-6+ players being discussed for multiple deals….would half the team be getting physicals? Much of the time the player is not even aware he’s involved in talks as the last thing you want is your own players thinking that you don’t want them.
I believe what happens is they exchange physical information files with each other and then when they player shows up, they can take an actual one. That actual physical is what led last year to the Gary Payton deal being held for a while --they found something worse than expected in that actual physical exam
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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I believe what happens is they exchange physical information files with each other and then when they player shows up, they can take an actual one. That actual physical is what led last year to the Gary Payton deal being held for a while --they found something worse than expected in that actual physical exam
Yes, you have it correct as I understand it. HRB and Moops are talking past each other.
  • Teams discuss trade and trade physical information.
  • The trade is agreed upon and filed with the league office before the deadline. At this point, the trade is usually announced.
  • Players have to complete a physical before they join the other team.
  • If something happens in the physical that the team wasn't expecting, the trade gets held up. Assuming the concern is valid, the trade can be annulled or additional compensation can be included.
So yes Moops is correct that the physical occurs before the actual trade is completed but HRB is correct that the trade is agreed upon and filed with the league office before the physical occurs.

Don't people remember the IT4 trade?
 

Auger34

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Yes, you have it correct as I understand it. HRB and Moops are talking past each other.
  • Teams discuss trade and trade physical information.
  • The trade is agreed upon and filed with the league office before the deadline. At this point, the trade is usually announced.
  • Players have to complete a physical before they join the other team.
  • If something happens in the physical that the team wasn't expecting, the trade gets held up. Assuming the concern is valid, the trade can be annulled or additional compensation can be included.
So yes Moops is correct that the physical occurs before the actual trade is completed but HRB is correct that the trade is agreed upon and filed with the league office before the physical occurs.

Don't people remember the IT4 trade?
I was going to say they definitely take physicals after the trade is agreed, that's what caused some of the hold up with the Cleveland Kyrie/IT4 trade. I believe that the Celtics ended up adding in another second to that to get it to go through?
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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I was going to say they definitely take physicals after the trade is agreed, that's what caused some of the hold up with the Cleveland Kyrie/IT4 trade. I believe that the Celtics ended up adding in another second to that to get it to go through?
Yes, CLE was threatening to void the trade. So there is two ways of looking at this: (i) the trade was completed, the physical occurred, and then CLE had the right to void the trade; or (ii) the trade was announced, the physical occurs, and CLE had the right to walk from the trade under the theory that the player it got was not the player it negotiated for (because of injury).

That second round pick I believe ended up #50 and was traded to ATL, who took Skylar Mays. From Wiki, Skylar Mays was in the G League, ended up playing well enough to earn a contract from PDX on November 12, 2023, then got waived on January 6, and then signed a two-way with LAL.
 

HomeRunBaker

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I believe what happens is they exchange physical information files with each other and then when they player shows up, they can take an actual one. That actual physical is what led last year to the Gary Payton deal being held for a while --they found something worse than expected in that actual physical exam
Right. The player isn’t actually given a physical until a trade is completed which is my point.
 

Eddie Jurak

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I was hoping to see more of Tillman by now, but the schedule really didn't allow for it. He was banged up when he came over, and leaving him out until the ASB made some sense. And the schedule coming out of the ASB is light - only 4 games in their first 10 days, meaning Al Horford won't have his famous lower back-to-back stiffness, etc.

From March 5 to April 1, the Celtics play 15 games in 27 days, with a kind of unbelievable 12 of those games coming on the road. Three back-to-backs in there as well. That's where Tillman will get his chance.
 

Euclis20

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Tillman moves and plays like a younger Al Horford, but without the 3 point shot. He's not getting much (any) time in the playoffs over KP and Horford, but I wouldn't mind seeing him get a lot of minutes over Kornet going forward. He's an excellent fit.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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Tillman moves and plays like a younger Al Horford, but without the 3 point shot. He's not getting much (any) time in the playoffs over KP and Horford, but I wouldn't mind seeing him get a lot of minutes over Kornet going forward. He's an excellent fit.
Forsberg interviewed Tillman and X said that he took thousands of Ps over the summer so maybe he's going to develop one?

Really liked his passing. He got the ball a few times in space and made a good pass. That's going to happen a lot when he plays I think.

ORtg = 139.3; DRtg 89.7 in 15 minutes. Not shabby.

 

Swedgin

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Tillman moves and plays like a younger Al Horford, but without the 3 point shot. He's not getting much (any) time in the playoffs over KP and Horford, but I wouldn't mind seeing him get a lot of minutes over Kornet going forward. He's an excellent fit.
Worth remembering a young Al did not shoot the three either. Did not average over 3 three's a game until his age 29 season.
 

lovegtm

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He's really good, better than I expected. High BBIQ, doesn't matter whether he can shoot if he's always going to be playing with 4 shooters. Moves around the court well on offense, brick wall on D.

Sign me up for 4 more years of him, and get the man some playing time.
 

Euclis20

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Worth remembering a young Al did not shoot the three either. Did not average over 3 three's a game until his age 29 season.
Young Al grew up in a different NBA, which is likely the only reason why he wasn't already a serviceable 3 point shooting big. Through age 25, Tillman has shot:

273 on deep 2's
.264 from 3 (182 attempts)
.574 from the line.

Through age 25, Al shot:

.463 on deep 2's
.250 from 3 (12 attempts)
.761 from the line

I don't think Tillman's on the same track when it comes to outside shooting.
 

lovegtm

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Young Al grew up in a different NBA, which is likely the only reason why he wasn't already a serviceable 3 point shooting big. Through age 25, Tillman has shot:

273 on deep 2's
.264 from 3 (182 attempts)
.574 from the line.

Through age 25, Al shot:

.463 on deep 2's
.250 from 3 (12 attempts)
.761 from the line

I don't think Tillman's on the same track when it comes to outside shooting.
Yeah, Al was one of the best long-2 shooters in the game, prior to his 3-point transition.
 

Imbricus

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He's really good, better than I expected. High BBIQ, doesn't matter whether he can shoot if he's always going to be playing with 4 shooters. Moves around the court well on offense, brick wall on D.

Sign me up for 4 more years of him, and get the man some playing time.
I just saw him in the first half, but I'm totally on board with this. A pass did skip through his hands, but Tatum threw it pretty hard. The one defensive play I watched, Tillman was on his man like wallpaper. Very impressive. Someone in the game thread opined that he's probably around for only a few months, but I don't think Brad's that dumb. He's got a keeper.
 

benhogan

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It's all about the D with Tillman.
If he can handle the Alpha 4s on the perimeter & get under the scoring 5s for 10-15mpg Brad has hit a deadline homer.
I'm Old School, I want a few hard fouls from X.

On offense, Tillman just needs to set physical screens/picks & roll hard to the rim.
Break out a few Gortat snake screens in the lane.

He's more than a fungible Beef BIG if the defensive metrics are even close to accurate
 

Eddie Jurak

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He's really good, better than I expected. High BBIQ, doesn't matter whether he can shoot if he's always going to be playing with 4 shooters. Moves around the court well on offense, brick wall on D.

Sign me up for 4 more years of him, and get the man some playing time.
I just saw him in the first half, but I'm totally on board with this. A pass did skip through his hands, but Tatum threw it pretty hard. The one defensive play I watched, Tillman was on his man like wallpaper. Very impressive. Someone in the game thread opined that he's probably around for only a few months, but I don't think Brad's that dumb. He's got a keeper.
I thought he flashed in the first half but also looked out of step with the team at times. On the plus side, he defended well, and there was one sequence where he played good defense, then ran the floor for a fast break layup, then swallowed a guy up and blocked him on the other end. On the downside, there was a play or two on the defensive end where he wasn't quite in sync with his teammates (which I would attribute to his short time here and little game time here) and on offense he didn't seem to have a role in half court sets. Putting him, maybe the worst shooter on the team, in the corner in offensive sets is almost like playing 4 on 5, I thought.

Then he started the 4th quarter and was great. Made plays at both ends. On one of those plays where he was parked in the corner, Jaylen Brown drove and he relocated, "made himself available" for an easy basket, and Jaylen found him. He was also effective on the short roll. Defensively, he held his own against a variety of big and small Mavs.

He's UFA after the season with the Celtics holding his Bird rights. I hope they get him signed, though off what he showed tonight he looks like someone who will have a market. He's a great fit alongside our core players. Really have to tip the cap to Stevens for getting this deal done.
 

shoosh77

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6’7” and 245, he’s got a physical presence to keep a Draymond in check. Hes definitely a plus on the court but having that type of player to watch the backs of the Jays is something I think the team has missed.
 

BringBackMo

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He’s basically who the insider NBA types told us he was: A very good and versatile defender and a good offensive player who can’t shoot well. The video @benhogan posted right after the trade was an extensive, stat-heavy examination of his basketball “genius,” and I think we’re seeing some evidence of it on the court now.

In addition to the defense and passing last night, I was encouraged by Tillman’s finishes at the rim. He was 3-3 from the floor, and made a nice move directly under the hoop to finish on a tricky pass from I think it was Jaylen (going from memory and could be wrong). I agree with the earlier sentiment that his shooting doesn’t matter at all on this team because of all the other shooters around him, but the ability to finish at the rim is a nice bonus.

I think the fact that he played in the West and that Brad got him for a song make it easy to forget that that this is not some under-utilized nobody that the rest of the league was unaware of. He’s averaged 20-ish minutes a game the past two seasons and has a decent-size track record in the league. There’s a reason people were making videos about him. I think we can be confident that this is who Tillman is, and that sure looks like a really nice rotation piece for the Celtics for the next few years. As others have said, a nice little theft by Brad.

EDIT: Probably not actually a theft. Tillman will be due a sizable raise and will also be more valuable to a team like the Celtics. So let’s call it a nice little identification of value by Brad.
 
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HomeRunBaker

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He’s basically who the insider NBA types told us he was: A very good and versatile defender and a good offensive player who can’t shoot well. The video @benhogan posted right after the trade was an extensive, stat-heavy examination of his basketball “genius,” and I think we’re seeing some evidence of it on the court now.

In addition to the defense and passing last night, I was encouraged by Tillman’s finishes at the rim. He was 3-3 from the floor, and made a nice move directly under the hoop to finish on a tricky pass from I think it was Jaylen (going from memory and could be wrong). I agree with the earlier sentiment that his shooting doesn’t matter at all on this team because of all the other shooters around him, but the ability to finish at the rim is a nice bonus.

I think the fact that he played in the West and that Brad got him for a song make it easy to forget that that this is not some under-utilized nobody that the rest of the league was unaware of. He’s averaged 20-ish minutes a game the past two seasons and has a decent-size track record in the league. There’s a reason people were making videos about him. I think we can be confident that this is who Tillman is, and that sure looks like a really nice rotation piece for the Celtics for the next few years. As others have said, a nice little theft by Brad.

EDIT: Probably not actually a theft. Tillman will be due a sizable raise and will also be more valuable to a team like the Celtics. So let’s call it a nice little identification of value by Brad.
You don't start and avg 30 mpg in a playoff series if you are a stiff. Tillman is going to help us at some point in the playoffs when the games are more halfcourt and much more physical than they are now.
 

Eddie Jurak

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EDIT: Probably not actually a theft. Tillman will be due a sizable raise and will also be more valuable to a team like the Celtics. So let’s call it a nice little identification of value by Brad.
I wonder what his market will be. Probably more valuable to a team with a lot of shooting than without it.
 

benhogan

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As others have said, a nice little theft by Brad.

EDIT: Probably not actually a theft. Tillman will be due a sizable raise and will also be more valuable to a team like the Celtics. So let’s call it a nice little identification of value by Brad.
I want to pile on because Brad is doing 1970s Lufthansa-style work here.

A year ago the Center/5 was a position of concern with little depth. Celtics were heavily dependent on a declining/oft-injured TimeLord and a getting older Al Horford. Blake was fun, but he was preparing for warm-weather retirement. Gallinari hadn't played a single minute & was taking up cap space. Mike Muscala wasn't a bad addition at the deadline & his salary ended up serving a purpose.

Brad's work at the 5 over the last year is a Master Class in GM-ing.

Here is what Brad (w/ Zaren & Joe) have done since:
1. Stole Porzingis for filler (unloading Gallinari's negative contract in the process) + a 2nd.
Then extended him on a discount (while the rest of the NBA was busy chasing Dame).
How the heck aren't 8-10 other GM's calling the Wizards last summer offering more? especially after the Brogdon deal went publicly bust? That should have set off alarm bells at every other contender's front office when the Clippers nixed it.
2. Sold TL before he becomes a non-asset to go get Jrue
3. Extended Horford for 2-years at $10MM/yr. Then move Al to the role of 6th Man, reduce minutes & wear-n-tear (which will make him more effective in the playoffs)
4. Kept Luke Kornet on a minimum deal. Force-fed him some 3rd string minutes, where he looks playable. BUT appears to get nicked up, so let's get more depth by...
5. Adding Queta, G-League MVP, for nothing on a 2-way. Doesn't even take up a roster spot. Wyc's wallet says thank you.
6. Finally adds an elite defensive Center for 2 Seconds (which he piled up in the Smart heist). Gets Tillman's Bird rights which is crucial to a team that has no wiggle room to add players as a 2nd apron team.

Sorry if I LOLz at the Timberwolves using a boatload of draft assets for a max'd Rudy Gobert (I'd rather have KP)

ALSO NBA resident genius Daryl Morey hedged himself from the inevitable Embiid injury with Paul Read/Mo Bamba combo. Maybe should have kicked the Tillman tires at the deadline, but I guess he was busy spending 2nds for Buddy Hield.

Brad has reached Theo status.
 
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Squeteague

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6’7” and 245, he’s got a physical presence to keep a Draymond in check. Hes definitely a plus on the court but having that type of player to watch the backs of the Jays is something I think the team has missed.
Tillman was 266 lbs at his draft combine weight, he looks to be heavier than that now but to his credit still moves really well, overall a very nice asset for coach Mazzulla to have at his disposal.
 

lovegtm

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I wonder what his market will be. Probably more valuable to a team with a lot of shooting than without it.
I think he'd get about $5-7M/year right now. If he has a great playoff run, that goes up. If he's unnoticed, maybe down a bit.

I imagine the Celtics are treating this as "we spent 2 2nds to get our MLE back for the summer of 2024." Not that Tillman will make the full MLE, but they needed a way to circumvent the 2nd apron and add a player in that range who was the right fit.
 

Just a bit outside

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I want to pile on because Brad is doing 1970s Lufthansa-style work here.

A year ago the Center/5 was a position of concern with little depth. Celtics were heavily dependent on a declining/oft-injured TimeLord and a getting older Al Horford.

Brad's work at the 5 over the last year is a Master Class in GM-ing.

Here is what Brad (w/ Zaren & Joe) have done since:
1. Stole Porzingis for filler (unloading Gallinari's negative contract in the process) + a 2nd.
Then extended him on a discount (while the rest of the NBA was busy chasing Dame).
How the heck aren't 8-10 other GM's calling the Wizards last summer offering more? especially after the Brogdon deal went publicly bust? That should have set off alarm bells at every other contender's front office when the Clippers nixed it.
2. Sold TL before he becomes a non-asset to go get Jrue
3. Extended Horford for 2-years at $10MM/yr. Then move Al to the role of 6th Man, reduce minutes & wear-n-tear (which will make him more effective in the playoffs)
4. Kept Luke Kornet on a minimum deal. Force-fed him some 3rd string minutes, where he looks playable. BUT appears to get nicked up, so let's get more depth by...
5. Adding Queta, G-League MVP, for nothing on a 2-way. Doesn't even take up a roster spot. Wyc's wallet says thank you.
6. Finally adds an elite defensive Center for 2 Seconds (which he piled up in the Smart heist). Gets Tillman's Bird rights which is crucial to a team that has no wiggle room to add players as a 2nd apron team.

Sorry if I LOLz at the Timberwolves using a boatload of draft assets for a max'd Rudy Gobert (I'd rather have KP)

ALSO NBA resident genius Daryl Morey hedged himself from the inevitable Embiid injury with Paul Read/Mo Bamba combo. Maybe should have kicked the Tillman tires at the deadline, but I guess he was busy spending 2nds for Buddy Hield.

Brad has reached Theo status.
I do think/wonder if Porzingis said Celtics only and the Wizards and other teams weren’t really able to counter.
 

benhogan

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I do think/wonder if Porzingis said Celtics only and the Wizards and other teams weren’t really able to counter.
Definitely a possibility & I'd like to believe every available player ONLY dreams of wearing Green

BUT I'd guess he wanted to play for a contender.

I imagine if Miami or a Los Angeles team had come knocking KP would have also been interested in playing for them.
 

lovegtm

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6’7” and 245, he’s got a physical presence to keep a Draymond in check. Hes definitely a plus on the court but having that type of player to watch the backs of the Jays is something I think the team has missed.
I wouldn't say this unless the defensive metrics loved Tillman so much, but Draymond is probably his closest physical and defensive style comp.

Obviously Draymond is a generational defensive genius, but the metrics and eye test don't think Tillman is any slouch either.
 

lovegtm

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Definitely a possibility & I'd like to believe every available player ONLY dreams of wearing Green

BUT I'd guess he wanted to play for a contender.

I imagine if Miami or a Los Angeles team had come knocking KP would have also been interested in playing for them.
Yeah, I imagine either could have had him. LA is a weird fit (probably doable, since AD is a defensive freak), but Miami would have been devastating. Maybe the favorites in the East, depending on how much Butler can turn it on in the playoffs again.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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ALSO NBA resident genius Daryl Morey hedged himself from the inevitable Embiid injury with Paul Read/Mo Bamba combo. Maybe should have kicked the Tillman tires at the deadline, but I guess he was busy spending 2nds for Buddy Hield.

Brad has reached Theo status.
Good point about PHI. Tillman over Bamba would have been a huge upgrade.

Hopefully Brad can convince him to stay.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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He might be better served to lose a little, he's plenty strong as it is. Horford is a great example of not putting on too much mass over the years.
In his interview with Forsberg, X said he’s been talking a lot about longevity and one thing Al said was to keep as much weight off the joints as possible, which includes hitting the weight room and watching what he eats. So maybe he’ll take that to heart.
 

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Horford without the shot is an odd comparison since to me the shot is a big part of what makes Horford’s game. The passing is sweet though. Physically the dude looks a lot like those undersized bigs of the 90s and 00s but his skill set is totally different.
 

Eddie Jurak

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Horford without the shot is an odd comparison since to me the shot is a big part of what makes Horford’s game. The passing is sweet though. Physically the dude looks a lot like those undersized bigs of the 90s and 00s but his skill set is totally different.
Yeah, I think of him more as a bigger Grant who doesn't shoot but has better secondary skills.