Unusual plays

steveluck7

steveluck7

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This wasn't really a cool play per se but something I've never seen before. I was at the Pawsox game yesterday against Gwinnett and they have a pitcher, Ben Rowen, a journeyman 30 yr. old righty. He came in the game with a submarine style delivery. My son was asking why he threw like that so I explained that for some pitchers it's just what's comfortable and most effective. Well, the next pitch, he proceeds to throw completely over the top.
For 2 innings, he was damn close to 50 / 50 submarine and over-the-top in his pitches. I've never seen a pitcher switch up so dramatically pitch to pitch.
 
DJnVa

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steveluck7 said:
This wasn't really a cool play per se but something I've never seen before. I was at the Pawsox game yesterday against Gwinnett and they have a pitcher, Ben Rowen, a journeyman 30 yr. old righty. He came in the game with a submarine style delivery. My son was asking why he threw like that so I explained that for some pitchers it's just what's comfortable and most effective. Well, the next pitch, he proceeds to throw completely over the top.
For 2 innings, he was damn close to 50 / 50 submarine and over-the-top in his pitches. I've never seen a pitcher switch up so dramatically pitch to pitch.
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That's awesome. I did that in little league. I pitched because I was one of the better players and there was always the assumption that we could pitch (one game at SS, one game a P). But I didn't throw very hard so I needed a gimmick and that was mine--submarine to over the top, to sidearm in the span of 3 pitches.
 
SirPsychoSquints

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steveluck7 said:
This wasn't really a cool play per se but something I've never seen before. I was at the Pawsox game yesterday against Gwinnett and they have a pitcher, Ben Rowen, a journeyman 30 yr. old righty. He came in the game with a submarine style delivery. My son was asking why he threw like that so I explained that for some pitchers it's just what's comfortable and most effective. Well, the next pitch, he proceeds to throw completely over the top.
For 2 innings, he was damn close to 50 / 50 submarine and over-the-top in his pitches. I've never seen a pitcher switch up so dramatically pitch to pitch.
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Was it based on handedness, or within the same batter?

Edit: I found a few videos of him in the majors in 2014, and every delivery was submarine. I wonder if he's trying it out recently.
 
steveluck7

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SirPsychoSquints said:
Was it based on handedness, or within the same batter?
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Same batter, pitch to pitch. I didn't get a shot to really scout it as I was down the RF line a bit and there were 9 of us (5 kids) so i couldn't really analyze it.
I would have liked to compare velocity and movement from the 2 slots. I can't imagine he only throws certain pitches from one slot vs. the other as that would be the ultimate in pitch-tipping.
 
Rice4HOF

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Astros / Mariners tonight. Runners on 1st and 3rd for Houston with 1 out. Ground ball to shortstop who instead of going for an inning ending double play, throws the ball towards home. Might have had the lead runner out easily, but the catcher was running to cover the throw to 1st base, so the ball ended up bouncing off the backstop. Run scores, everyone is safe.
No error, just a routine(?) fielder's choice.
 
Lowrielicious

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Rice4HOF said:
Astros / Mariners tonight. Runners on 1st and 3rd for Houston with 1 out. Ground ball to shortstop who instead of going for an inning ending double play, throws the ball towards home. Might have had the lead runner out easily, but the catcher was running to cover the throw to 1st base, so the ball ended up bouncing off the backstop. Run scores, everyone is safe.
No error, just a routine(?) fielder's choice.
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I’m going to say that’s the catchers f-up.
SS isn’t going to be able to turn the double play going in and to his right. So the run is scoring if he doesn’t come home. Close and late you want to stop that run.
Perfect throw for the tag so he has the runner easy. Then it’s runners 1 and 2 with two out rather than a run in, runner on first and 2 out if he goes to 2b for the force out there.
 
Red(s)HawksFan

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Lowrielicious said:

I’m going to say that’s the catchers f-up.
SS isn’t going to be able to turn the double play going in and to his right. So the run is scoring if he doesn’t come home. Close and late you want to stop that run.
Perfect throw for the tag so he has the runner easy. Then it’s runners 1 and 2 with two out rather than a run in, runner on first and 2 out if he goes to 2b for the force out there.
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Agreed that this one is on the catcher. Not sure that even if the play is definitely going to second then first for the DP attempt that the catcher should be abandoning the plate in that situation.
 
Hendu for Kutch

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Those two runners were only on because Mallex Smith misplayed two balls that inning. The Mariners are an absolute tire fire defensively, like few teams I can remember. It seems like every Mariners game highlight I see has someone making a disasterous misplay.
 
Sad Sam Jones

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I think Bob Wickman did that once (although he didn't actually announce it). I know he was well known for letting guys steal the base if they weren't the tying run.

*
 
santadevil

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That was probably the most impressive one I've seen. Credit to DeJong for hustling right away. The small things win ball games
 
DanoooME

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Jim Ed Rice in HOF said:
OK, rules people. Let's assume one of the Cubs missed third and the umps realized it. Once the throw to third went wild that put the ball in play and nullifies the ability to appeal similar to if they had thrown a pitch and then tried to appeal?
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They can't appeal after a pitch has been thrown. So it was nullified either way.
 
AB in DC

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I think the umps did eventually grant the appeal once the 3B retrieved the ball, at least according to one of the replays.

The runner was safe, but what if they called out? Obviously that run gets taken off the board, but since that would have been the third out, does the run scoring on the wild throw also get taken off?
 
DJnVa

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AB in DC said:
I think the umps did eventually grant the appeal once the 3B retrieved the ball, at least according to one of the replays.

The runner was safe, but what if they called out? Obviously that run gets taken off the board, but since that would have been the third out, does the run scoring on the wild throw also get taken off?
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Coming back to this. I am pretty sure the run counts. The appeal play is not considered a force out, so it's all about the timing.

http://www.umpirebible.com/ubBlog/archives/304
 
BaseballJones

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Not an unusual play but a question for the group. Was, for some odd reason, watching Clemens' first 20k game, and with two out in the 9th, he broke the previous record of 19 strikeouts. Upon doing so, the TV screen flashed that he broke the single game strikeout record.

Ok, so here's the question. Let's say that he broke the record as it happened. Then he gave up a two-run home run two batters later and the game went into extra innings. Say then he pitched the 10th and the Sox won 4-3 in 10 innings. The game would NOT have been a 9-inning game then. But Clemens would still have struck out more batters in 9 innings than anyone else. But would the record have stood?
 
S

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BaseballJones said:
Ok, so here's the question. Let's say that he broke the record as it happened. Then he gave up a two-run home run two batters later and the game went into extra innings. Say then he pitched the 10th and the Sox won 4-3 in 10 innings. The game would NOT have been a 9-inning game then. But Clemens would still have struck out more batters in 9 innings than anyone else. But would the record have stood?
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As an aside, Tom Cheney struck out 21 batters in an extra-inning game for the Washington Senators when he pitched a 16-inning complete game in a 2-1 victory at Baltimore on September 12, 1962.
 
edoug

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BaseballJones said:
Not an unusual play but a question for the group. Was, for some odd reason, watching Clemens' first 20k game, and with two out in the 9th, he broke the previous record of 19 strikeouts. Upon doing so, the TV screen flashed that he broke the single game strikeout record.

Ok, so here's the question. Let's say that he broke the record as it happened. Then he gave up a two-run home run two batters later and the game went into extra innings. Say then he pitched the 10th and the Sox won 4-3 in 10 innings. The game would NOT have been a 9-inning game then. But Clemens would still have struck out more batters in 9 innings than anyone else. But would the record have stood?
Click to expand...
It has been done by the Red Sox. 4 Sox pitchers combined to strike out 21 Rays through 9 innings but the game was tied. The Sox scored a run in the top of the 10th and then struck out 2 more batters and won the game. 23 K's in 10 innings but no records. Okay here was one record, Eduardo and Hembree combined to strike out 11 in a row.

https://www.masslive.com/redsox/2016/09/boston_red_sox_pitchers_strike.html
For the record, the Sox have struck out 20 or more batters in 9 innings 4 times.
 
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Max Power

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There's nothing at all in rule 5.07 about what your hands must do after coming to the set position. I'd say it's legal.

I also had no idea a quick pitch was actually against the rules and counts as a ball. The rule says you're not allowed to try to catch a hitter off guard, so I don't think it applies to this guy.
 
Red(s)HawksFan

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Since this is a full wind-up, I'm assuming there are no base runners so therefore it's impossible to balk.

It's not a quick pitch because again, it's a full wind-up. So it's not illegal for that either.

Seems like this guy figured out a way to really hide the ball from the batter, which is a trait that a lot of pitchers with a more traditional wind-up are praised for being able to do.

Kid's a genius.
 
Tuff Ghost

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People say that over-reliance on data and finding edges in market inefficiencies have resulted in baseball becoming a more boring game, but if magicians become the new market inefficiency in pitching, well, the people will come back to the game. They'll be running to the park when they hear "The Final Countdown" on the stadium PA and this guy is warming up.

39766

I look forward to an all-magician opener rotation in Tampa circa 2023.
 
loshjott

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Red(s)HawksFan said:
Since this is a full wind-up, I'm assuming there are no base runners so therefore it's impossible to balk.

It's not a quick pitch because again, it's a full wind-up. So it's not illegal for that either.

Seems like this guy figured out a way to really hide the ball from the batter, which is a trait that a lot of pitchers with a more traditional wind-up are praised for being able to do.

Kid's a genius.
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If he doctored his glove in any way to enable the ball to stick back there it would be illegal. Also I imagine the surprise factor would make it effective on occasion but if he did it every time the batters would adjust.
 
santadevil

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They had the lead runner out for sure, but the guy at 3rd ran towards the runner who was coming back to him. If he stayed put, catchers run him back, as he did, but then the throw doesn't get knocked away
 
Zedia

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santadevil said:
They had the lead runner out for sure, but the guy at 3rd ran towards the runner who was coming back to him. If he stayed put, catchers run him back, as he did, but then the throw doesn't get knocked away
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Ah, yeah, I see that now. He looked panicked as hell. Thanks.
 
Harry Hooper

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The triple by Mullins about 30 feet behind 3rd base in last night's Sox-Orioles game merits inclusion here:

MLB Link
 
jcaz

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I realize that was a long run for Bogaerts, but that could have been scored a three base E6, no?
 
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Heating up in the bullpen

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jcaz said:
I realize that was a long run for Bogaerts, but that could have been scored a three base E5, no?
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"A fielder is given an error if, in the judgment of the official scorer, he fails to convert an out on a play that an average fielder should have made."
There is also a notion of "ordinary effort." That play was beyond ordinary effort -- sprinting from the other side of second base just to get to the ball.
 
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