The 2014 Offseason Thread

[Ed Hillel]

Unsurprising, but the Pats have approached Big Vince about restructuring. No word on if Wilfork is amenable as of yet.
 
http://espn.go.com/boston/nfl/story/_/id/10570103/would-new-england-patriots-consider-cutting-vince-wilfork-rework-contract

 

[axx]

Trade him maybe? Even though he's getting old, he's still quite productive, so I think he could fetch a decent draft pick.

 

[soxfan121]

@SSF - do you want a new thread for FA transactions or are we going megathread? And before you answer, remember, Skrub is watching.
 
Vikings re-sign Matt Cassel, 2/$10M, no guaranteed money reported in link
 
And AZ Cardinal DT Darnell Dockett tweeted earlier today, welcoming his new teammate Branden Albert. Except Albert cannot sign with anyone for a few more days and shouldn't even be talking to the Cardinals (tampering rules!). Dockett's tweet has since been deleted. But he then took to twitter to answer accusations of tampering with an (IMO) entertaining series of tweets on the subject. 
 
In other news, between this and his "i bought a tiger" shenanigans last summer, Darnell Dockett is an interesting dude.

 

[baruch20]

https://twitter.com/RapSheet/status/442077406224842752
 
Sproles would be a great pickup as a 3rd down option.  Vereen gets hurt a lot but is still good and it would be nice to have another option in there besides Bolden.

 
Seems that Pierre Thomas is available as well.  I think I'd prefer him to Spoles.  He is bigger and a better rusher, but can still make plays in the passing game.
I think he would do well in a Brady run offense.

 

[Sox and Rocks]

 
That play would make sense for them.  As would cutting Champ Bailey and signing Talib.

Definitely.  Welker is scheduled to make $8 million this year.  Hard to believe he is worth that, given his age and role, when guys like Eddelman and even their own Decker will probably sign for less and are younger.  

 

[Sox and Rocks]

Kind of surprised Sproles was cut, given his salary/cap hit is only $3.5 million.  That doesn't seem to be above market value for a player of his skills...

 

[Ed Hillel]

Let's put it this way...If Belichick didn't want Woodhead at roughly 3 million over 2 years, I doubt he's going to want Sproles at whatever he's going to command.
 
Yes, I am still bitter about Woodhead. A completely baffling move.

 

[dcmissle]

Spikes interview on NFLN. Pretty candid admission that he screwed up. Paraphrasing -- I made mistakes, needed to grow up, am a better man today, onward and upward. No bitterness. Appreciation expressed to fans and team. Mature.

BTW -- Patriots' "Dynasty" week, next week, all week on NFLN.

 

[tims4wins]

Thanks. Just set the DVR to record about 20 things.

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

 
Seems that Pierre Thomas is available as well.  I think I'd prefer him to Spoles.  He is bigger and a better rusher, but can still make plays in the passing game.
I think he would do well in a Brady run offense.

There is something to this. Bill tried trading for Thomas about 3-4 years ago when he was on the outs with the Saints. The Saints for whatever reason are hellbent on going with Robinson/Ingram tandem which puzzles me. Ingram looks done and Thomas has been really good when he gets PT. Running back isn't a concern for the Pats. Targets for Brady and getting an elite CB is. If I were the Pats to be honest I would hope that Sammy Watkins slides to say 6th or 7th and offer up a nice package to take him. But this is Bill and he's more likely to trade out of the 1st for a 2nd and 3rd.

 

[Super Nomario]

There is something to this. Bill tried trading for Thomas about 3-4 years ago when he was on the outs with the Saints. The Saints for whatever reason are hellbent on going with Robinson/Ingram tandem which puzzles me. Ingram looks done and Thomas has been really good when he gets PT. Running back isn't a concern for the Pats. Targets for Brady and getting an elite CB is. If I were the Pats to be honest I would hope that Sammy Watkins slides to say 6th or 7th and offer up a nice package to take him. But this is Bill and he's more likely to trade out of the 1st for a 2nd and 3rd.

RB is a concern because Vereen and Ridley are both in the last year of their contracts and there's little depth behind them. A guy like Thomas would be a nice addition because he can run and catch. The Pats have been pretty predictable the past few years, with guys like Ridley, Blount, and BJGE who can run but offer nothing in the passing game and guys like Woodhead and Vereen who aren't really a threat to run but can catch. Thomas can do both and makes opposing teams respect both.

 

[soxfan121]

RB is a concern because Vereen and Ridley are both in the last year of their contracts and there's little depth behind them. A guy like Thomas would be a nice addition because he can run and catch. The Pats have been pretty predictable the past few years, with guys like Ridley, Blount, and BJGE who can run but offer nothing in the passing game and guys like Woodhead and Vereen who aren't really a threat to run but can catch. Thomas can do both and makes opposing teams respect both.

 
I concur. If they can get a draft pick for Ridley (conditional 6th/5th?), Thomas would be an excellent addition. Thomas. Vereen, Bolden and UDFA would be perfectly acceptable and maybe it costs less than bringing back LGBT.

 

[pdaj]

The interesting thing about Thomas is ... despite being 29, he's never topped 150 carries in a season. He still has tread.

 

[RedOctober3829]

https://twitter.com/NFL_ATL/status/442357045983842304

 

[pdaj]

I have to think Miami's new GM, Dennis Hickey, will kick the tires here.

 

[Phragle]

I half-seriously think the Pats should be very aggressive and backload contracts so that they don't have 50 Million in cap space come 2015-2016 with no one to spend it on.
 
 

 
https://twitter.com/nflukhank/status/442120775005245440/photo/1

 

[Trlicek's Whip]

 
Seems that Pierre Thomas is available as well.  I think I'd prefer him to Spoles.  He is bigger and a better rusher, but can still make plays in the passing game.
I think he would do well in a Brady run offense.

 
I agree. He was limited in New Orleans' offense since Brees spread the ball around (and funneled to Jimmy Graham) and they juggled Sproles and Ingram so no one RB looked exceptional. But Thomas was their best all-purpose back (1062 yards from scrimmage) and had a career year in receiving yards (513) and receptions (77). 

 

[E5 Yaz]

The Colts cap space would seem to have more of a potential impact than any of the other AFC teams near the top of the list 

 

[lambeau]

I'm afraid Talib is gone--right now getting Brent Grimes-type offers or better, which I don't think BB will match. And  I like Logan Ryan, but he's not Talib.
Charles Tillman may not be Revis, but he may be Talib. He had a bum knee last year, but the year before he could still shut down Megatron.
At 33, coming off the knee, he'll be in BB's price range. He's made a lot of money--maybe he'll take a non-guaranteed contract.
 
https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2013/07/09/charles-tillman-trapped-within-not-made-by-zone-scheme/

 

[axx]

That's an awful lot of cap space for the Raiders, Jags and Browns. Going to be an large check they are going to write to get in compliance with the floor.

 

[Dgilpin]

Jags appear to have come to terms with Red Bryant

 

[soxfan121]

That's an awful lot of cap space for the Raiders, Jags and Browns. Going to be an large check they are going to write to get in compliance with the floor.

 
Incorrect.
 

The salary cap floor rule states that teams must spend 89% of their available cap money. It is an average they must maintain over a four-year period running from 2013 through the 2016 season.
 

 
At some point in the next three years, the Raiders must spend money. Which they will. Up to 89% of a three year average. The only checks they will be writing is to free agents. 

 

[Phragle]

Jags appear to have come to terms with Red Bryant

 
Predictable given the Jags cap space and familiarity with Bryant.

 

[axx]

At some point in the next three years, the Raiders must spend money. Which they will. Up to 89% of a three year average. The only checks they will be writing is to free agents. 

It's four years, and last year was the first one. I don't know how much the Raiders were under, but according to this article (http://www.dawgsbynature.com/2014/2/28/5456802/cleveland-browns-salary-cap-understanding-the-89-cash-spending) the Browns were $15M under last year and are currently $50M under. That money is going to add up, and I imagine teams will just not worry about it and just pay the NFLPA when the time comes. They could go spend happy, but I doubt it. Come to think of it, that's probably why the Bucs want to get rid of Revis - they are not going to spend a penny more than the floor.

 

[Ed Hillel]

The Colts cap space would seem to have more of a potential impact than any of the other AFC teams near the top of the list 

 
I thought the Pats had another year at least over the Colts, but I didn't realize they had that much money to work with. They may make the jump now if Belichick doesn't manage Free Agency and the draft well. There's also always the possibility that Irsay gets hammered one night and spends the money completely irrationally. Hope remains.

 

[mpx42]

They won't spend it all - they have to save a good chunk for Luck.

 

[mpx42]

https://twitter.com/BleacherReport/status/442419431595986944

 

[Phragle]

The Colts cap space would seem to have more of a potential impact than any of the other AFC teams near the top of the list 

 
At least Irsay is the one spending the money and they don't have a first rounder

 

[Ed Hillel]

If Snyder has made Talib his 2014 binky, you may as well kiss him goodbye. He'll end up getting a ton of guaranteed money from Snyder and then when he gets his huge bonus he'll either tank it or do something stupid and get suspended for the season.

 

[Dogman]

Nevermind.

 

[Phragle]

 ‏@ProFootballTalk  2m
Four year, $39 million deal for Packets CB Sam Shields. More coming at PFT.
 
 
 
That should help determine Talib's market.

 

[mpx42]

That's stupid money. That's "we're terrified of you hitting the open market and we're Green Bay so we don't sign free agent replacements" money.

 

[Phragle]

@AdamSchefter  1m
Packers gave CB Sam Shields a 4-year deal for $39 million, including a signing bonus $12.5 million, per source.
 
 
That's on the lower side.

 

[RedOctober3829]

As I expected, the market for Talib will be very high.  Do you pay him the big money or do you let him go?

 

[axx]

 
@AdamSchefter  1m
Packers gave CB Sam Shields a 4-year deal for $39 million, including a signing bonus $12.5 million, per source.
 
 
That's on the lower side.

 
From PFT, if I am reading it right, his salaries go 2.5 / 6 / 9 / 9, so it's possible he only gets two years out of it.

 

[dcmissle]

I was hoping against hope regarding Redskins/ Talib , it may be. To date the redskins have been right lipped, reflecting Allen. There is the Morris/ Talib history at work along with $20miilion cap space

 

[dcmissle]

That's stupid money. That's "we're terrified of you hitting the open market and we're Green Bay so we don't sign free agent replacements" money.

It is a healthy contract to be sure. What's interesting about this to me is that there are more than a few good CBs hitting FA, and the draft is supposedly chock full of them. On the other hand, the League is basically printing money at this point, and I think the cap estimates rolling forward are higher than anyone anticipated just a couple of years ago. It seems to be a good year to be a CB, and a great year to be a big one. I think we all know where this is heading

 

[soxfan121]

As I expected, the market for Talib will be very high.  Do you pay him the big money or do you let him go?

 
No, you let Washington pay him and thank your lucky stars you didn't have to pay for his annual hip/leg injury OR his looming year long suspension for an off-field incident. Talib is all risk - thanks for being you, Dan Snyder. Give him 5 years, $40M with $18.5M guaranteed, please. 

 

[Super Nomario]

 
No, you let Washington pay him and thank your lucky stars you didn't have to pay for his annual hip/leg injury OR his looming year long suspension for an off-field incident. Talib is all risk - thanks for being you, Dan Snyder. Give him 5 years, $40M with $18.5M guaranteed, please. 

What do you do with the secondary then?
 
Obviously there's a point where the risk and cost outweigh the benefits for Talib, but the secondary was arguably the strength of the team for big chunks last year; it would suck to see it revert back to a major question mark.

 

[RedOctober3829]

https://twitter.com/ravensinsider/status/442477209329348608

 

[NortheasternPJ]

No, you let Washington pay him and thank your lucky stars you didn't have to pay for his annual hip/leg injury OR his looming year long suspension for an off-field incident. Talib is all risk - thanks for being you, Dan Snyder. Give him 5 years, $40M with $18.5M guaranteed, please.

THe pats can sign him for 5 years for the price of Revis for 2.5 years? Sign me up.

Hell Revis will get nearly the guaranteed money you put forward in year one.

 

[RedOctober3829]

https://twitter.com/mikegiardi/status/442482680018780160

 

[Stitch01]

What do you do with the secondary then?
 
Obviously there's a point where the risk and cost outweigh the benefits for Talib, but the secondary was arguably the strength of the team for big chunks last year; it would suck to see it revert back to a major question mark.

Mid round pick/lower cost vet and improve other areas of the team.

 

[triniSox]

Mid round pick/lower cost vet and improve other areas of the team.

While I think that's a reasonable course of action to take, I think the flexibility Talib gives the Patriots defense by being able to play press-man and sometimes Cover-0 would be sorely missed.

 

[dcmissle]

Not to mention the team's mixed track record drafting corners. And that may be a gentle characterization.

Nonetheless, if Talib gets crazy money, Stich paints the likely path. And there is a good chance he will -- projecting health and reliability when history says otherwise is common enough.

 

[soxfan121]

What do you do with the secondary then?
 
Obviously there's a point where the risk and cost outweigh the benefits for Talib, but the secondary was arguably the strength of the team for big chunks last year; it would suck to see it revert back to a major question mark.

 
Sign TJ Ward to pair with McCourty. Grab a low priced veteran corner (Tillman?/Bailey?) to supplement Dennard & Ryan on the outside. Bring in some UDFA candidates. 
 
I get it. Talib was GREAT last year until he got hurt. But he will ALWAYS get hurt. He is nearing 30 and has never played a full season; every year has been affected with either a leg/hip injury OR a suspension. There is no reason to ignore his injury history OR his status as a repeat offender in both the substance abuse program and the general off-field transgressions. 
 
Talib is all risk. There in no way he stays healthy or out of trouble and gives you full value over the life of a contract. 
 
When Talib gets hurt and is paid very well, what are YOU doing to keep the secondary from "reverting back"?

 

[NortheasternPJ]

He just turned 28 and a 5 year deal would most likely really be a 3-4 year deal. Worse case you can cut him at age 31, it not like you are signing him through his age 34 years. You can probably cut him after 2 years.

I'd rather they pay Talib $8-9 a year than two bargain guys at $4 million combined.

 

[Toe Nash]

Not to mention the team's mixed track record drafting corners. And that may be a gentle characterization.

Nonetheless, if Talib gets crazy money, Stich paints the likely path. And there is a good chance he will -- projecting health and reliability when history says otherwise is common enough.

Why do people keep saying this? Not to start another "can BB draft?" argument but he has grabbed Dennard, Ryan, and McCourty as 3 of the last 4 CBs he's drafted.
 
Here's all the CBs he's drafted and their round:
Antwan Harris (6th) (contributed a bit)
Brock Williams (3rd) (injury problems)
Leonard Myers (6th) (ST for one year)
Asante Samuel (4th)
Ellis Hobbs (3rd)
Mike Richardson (6th) (JAG)
Terrence Wheatley (2nd) (bust)
Jonathan Wilhite (4th) (JAG)
Darius Butler (2nd) (semi-bust)
Devin McCourty (1st) (big hit, moved to S)
Ras-I Dowling (2nd) (injuries)
Dennard (7th)
Ryan (3rd)
 
Also: Arrington (UDFA) and there may be other UDFAs I'm forgetting
 
13 total, so hardly a big enough sample to shake out the noise (as would be with any position). But that said there are 2 pro bowl level players here, 3 solid starters (if you count Ryan, who looks like he can be that) and a couple more guys who contributed off the bench or on special teams. The only busts were Wheatley, Butler or guys who got injured (which was obviously a risk they knew about with Dowling).
 
I don't see the evidence he can't draft CBs, even if you COULD draw that conclusion from such a small sample size.

 

[soxfan121]

He just turned 28 and a 5 year deal would most likely really be a 3-4 year deal. Worse case you can cut him at age 31, it not like you are signing him through his age 34 years. You can probably cut him after 2 years.

I'd rather they pay Talib $8-9 a year than two bargain guys at $4 million combined.

 
Sorry, those numbers are simply not realistic given what Grimes and Shields have gotten and what Davis is rumored to be looking for. "$8-9M"is not going to get it done. Start at $10 - like Talib's agents will - and go from there. Further, you've left out what the guaranteed money would be, which is kinda important when you told us you'll be cutting him after three years. 
 
And if you think Talib's hip is 28...you're nuts. His hip is probably closer to AARP eligibility. And you kinda need a hip to play CB. It boggles my mind that so many otherwise smart, rational posters (you, SN) have decided that Talib's injury history and disciplinary record are just something to be waved away as an irrelevancy.
 
Paying any player more than 5% of the cap when they have a long-term and probably degenerative health problem AND are one bad taxi cab ride from a year long suspension is a bad idea.
 
But OK, same question for you Northeastern that I gave to SN - WHEN Talib is injured or suspended, what are you doing to "fix" the secondary and how much is that going to cost?

 

[( . ) ( . ) and (_!_)]

But even paying Talib $8-9 a year you still likely need to sign a bargain guy at $4 to play when Talib can't. And it is a safe bet that there will be times when Talib can't play. I'd much rather see Tillman or the like for short money and those Talib dollars go get two of the Jared Allens, Arthur joneses of the world.