SBLII: What Did the Butler Do?
- Thread starter ifmanis5
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almost everyone here has said that this decision makes no sense. Quote some posters that are saying otherwise.
They have had disputes over money with tons of players during BB’s tensure. They let guys walk, with Deion Branch they even let him go out and find himself a better deal (and then took him back years later).
Name me one time they have sat a guy to prove they can win without him? It makes zero fucking sense. Prove to who?
This, the only thing Jordan Richards has done in 2+ years is make people forget about Tavon Wilson, if both are FA tomorrow 31 teams are lining up to sign Butler, Richards, ehh not so much
And just to clarify my position,I don't understand the decision either. I am pushing back on the claims that the move was made due to ego, discipline, arrogance, or stuff along that lines. I believe the move was made because for whatever reason they thought Rowe was a better matchup out there. Not because they were trying to prove some sort of point.
If this is true why would Butler not come in to start the second half when it was very clear that Rowe was not the answer?
That's just the thing. If he was going to be that far out of the picture, then why on earth watse a roster spot on him.
Coaching staff couldn’t recognize it. Hence the reason they got way out coached tonight
They shifted Browner onto Matthews and put Butler on the 6'1" Kearse, for the most part.
BS
If we can see it they can see it, they aren't idiots.
There is a reason, I don't have a clue as to what it is.
I think that makes BB look even worse. If Rowe was not the answer why not adjust with Butler?
Yes, it's crazy to think BB thought he was giving his team the best chance to win, in his opinion. So moronic.
There's a lot of people here who need to sleep this one off.
This is where I'm at. I think it's frankly obvious that it is what it is. I don't think BB is going to get run out of town over it. Whatever happened, I do have faith that he does what he thinks is right. Last time he did what he thought was right with Butler, it won the Super Bowl. I'll still put my money down on his gut feeling any day. Every once in a while, it's not going to work out.
And, I don't follow as closely as a lot of you, but even I've heard of issues with Butler being late before. What adult here is chronically late to their jobs? So, if there is truth to the rumors and BB made that decision, then I can respect it. I'd just like to see him own it.
I can't blame a guy for sticking to his word. And while I'm sure Butler could we'll have made the difference, the defense should damn well should have been able to get one stop without him.
Have you ever had a fucking job? Because judging by some of your idiotic posts I've bitten my tongue to not comment on since you've been posting on this site I really do wonder. The contract thing has obviously been an issue and something happened this week that stemmed from that. And they probably lost a super bowl over it. The manager (in this case B.B.) should follow his own lecture about doing what best for the team and play the best players. Instead of sitting a key guy because he has a beef with him. That's what shitty managers do (trust me I've worked for a lot of them) and B.B. Is not usually a shitty manager but he fucked up tonight.
They clearly got out coached. Coaches can have really bad days, happens all the time against the patriots. Bill isn’t immune to sucking it up
And more and more like a poor game plan and inability (unwillingness) to adjust to on-the-field circumstances.
This was a HUGE missed opportunity. Congrats to the Eagles for making the necessary plays, though.
Yeah, OK, sounds good but this thinking is fucking idiotic as the game goes on.
As the game unfolds, there are plenty of snaps (dare I say more than I would have liked to have seen) where you might as well send him out there because the starting package with Rowe was getting hosed. Given that all but one drive results in a non-punt, what do you have to lose? Maybe a guy who, you know, has spent three years showing you he can tackle can maybe find a snap or two?
I don't think Rowe was terrible and understand wanting to use bigger CB against PHI big WR but don't try to sell me that butler is worse than Richards in any situation. Richards is a poor man's Tavon and contributed heavily to the loss.
Yeah.. I just don't see how having a guy play all year and then changing it up in the championship game even with two weeks of practice is a decision that can be justified. I personally don't think it's the reason they lost.. I think if one holding call was made early the line play would've been more fair and there would've been a lot more pressure on Foles. Just a number of things fell into place tonite.. and Philly benefitted or made all of the plays they needed too. (Thinking on it now.. the Foles TD clearly should've come back.. the Clement one I can accept).
Was Butler that good this year? He seemed excellent to me last year, but I recall being frustrated with him at times this season.
The other thing is that the Eagles give the ball to Jeffery, Ertz, Agholor and their RB's. The only one of those guys Butler can realistically cover is Jeffery, but Jeffery is so huge they probably wanted bigger backs to cover him.
Jeffery had a really good game but the three balls he took in were perfect throws from Foles. I don't think Butler does better than the guys they had in there.
All this to say that it isn't completely insane to me that Butler would be out of the game plan.
The other thing is that the Eagles give the ball to Jeffery, Ertz, Agholor and their RB's. The only one of those guys Butler can realistically cover is Jeffery, but Jeffery is so huge they probably wanted bigger backs to cover him.
Jeffery had a really good game but the three balls he took in were perfect throws from Foles. I don't think Butler does better than the guys they had in there.
All this to say that it isn't completely insane to me that Butler would be out of the game plan.
At most, that explains why Butler was demoted to third corner. They intentionally put together a 100% Butler-free defensive plan. Something they could have been doing for months if they really thought 4-safety looks with Richards were a good idea. If BB thinks Bademosi is a better CB than Butler, then BB should not have waited until the SB to play him ahaed of Butler. It's bad either way you look at it.
Ok so the coaches somehow don't see how Rowe was getting torched, the question remains how did they think Bademosi and Richards were better in the sub packages than Butler? Their performance / package excuse is 100% fetid bullshit.
Richards is terrible. I simply don't know the reasoning for the personnel decisions. What I am saying is that the ONLY reason I believe they made the moves they did is because.....they thought it was their best chance of winning the game. It sure looks like a mistake in judgement now, but I am extremely skeptical it's any more complicated than that.
Yeah, I just don't understand the decision not to play him AT ALL. I totally understand if they thought he had a bad week in practice, or he missed time with sickness and they thought he wasn't 100% up to speed on the game plan, or they keyed on something on film that made them think Rowe would be better.
But when the defense was a tire fire all game, why wouldn't you start him in the second half? Or fuck at least in the 4th quarter? Obviously what they were doing wasn't working and it's such an un-Belichick-like move to rigidly stick to a game plan that is not working. Just makes no sense and as much as I'm usually amused by Belichick's stony demeanor he really has some explaining to do.
But when the defense was a tire fire all game, why wouldn't you start him in the second half? Or fuck at least in the 4th quarter? Obviously what they were doing wasn't working and it's such an un-Belichick-like move to rigidly stick to a game plan that is not working. Just makes no sense and as much as I'm usually amused by Belichick's stony demeanor he really has some explaining to do.
In relation to his backups? Light years better. In relation to Gilmore, not as good. It was foolish to think benching him was in the interest of the team. Unforgivable when it was proven countless times in the game
Bill will give us nothing and some people will say he must've had a good reason and shouldn't be questioned.
Why wouldn't he match up on Agholor?
Do you think the Eagles OL was holding a lot more than the Patriots OL?
I think they did get outcoached, Pederson really impressed me and did a great job. But to say that they didn't realize that the guy that played 98% of snaps all year would give them a better chance over Bademosi is far beyond what I am willing to agree to. They knew that, you knew that, I knew that, there is a reason they didn't use him. Maybe it was a good reason but it wasn't because they didn't think of using him.
He struggled this year, but the coaching staff deemed him good enough to play 98% of the defensive snaps on this team right up until today, when he was apparently deemed not good enough to play a single snap. One way or another, that is idiocy.
This is Tony Mazz level trolling. You have no clue whether Butler’s contract situation had anything to do with anything. And I am saying this as someone who thinks it is very strange Butler didn’t play.
For the record, though, your opinion is that Bill Belichick benched Malcolm Butler in the Super Bowl because Malcolm Butler wanted too much money and Bill Belichick wanted to prove that he could win without him.
I’m done with you now.
One thing I kind of felt tonite was that they weren't gang-tackling quite as well.. seemed to be a little slow on the screens and such.. when a player caught the ball in space they seemed to be one on one much more often.. I wonder if that had anything to do with the fact that Butler wasn't playing.. perhaps they were going for bigger hits and trying to slow up bigger receivers with bigger bodies?
"They gave up on me. F---. It is what it is," Butler told ESPN after the game.
http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/22323948/new-england-patriots-cb-eric-rowe-gets-start-malcolm-butler-super-bowl-lii
http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/22323948/new-england-patriots-cb-eric-rowe-gets-start-malcolm-butler-super-bowl-lii
Sure, BB thought playing Rowe, Bademosi, and Jordan Richards over Butler gave his team the best chance to win. And continued to think that while they got lit up for the entire game.
You're on crack.
Don’t forget Bademosi who had a pretty big missed tackle on third down which would have led to a 3 and out. Instead, he wiffed, they got the first down and eventually scored a TD. Keep in mind, Butler is your best tackler from the cornerback position. None of this makes any sense to me at all.
SJH, I think you're so far out on the limb on this one, that you can't see the tree. I'll buy that you honestly believe that Bill benched Butler because he thought it gave them the best chance to win. I don't know how you can believe it, but I'll at least give you the benefit of the doubt.
But you can't, with a straight face, tell me that after watching 4 quarters of guys like Rowe, Richards and Bademosi get beat over and over, and Chung got hurt, that you think Bill kept Butler on the bench because he thought it was best for the team. You can't believe that. You don't send Butler out there for one series, and see if he makes a difference?
Half the people on this board thought Bademosi would be inactive this week, and instead, he's playing over Butler? WTF?
I'm livid about this. I'm not even upset about the loss. I'm pissed about the fact that a coaching decision may have cost Brady another ring, just like coaching decisions cost us homefield advantage in 2015 and maybe another ring. It's fucking bullshit.
Exactly ...there is more to the story than simply the coaches deciding their best defensive alignments included Butler standing on the sidelines. We are on the outside looking in. Has to be a lot more to the story.
I mean, it was a one possession game. It was a strip sack from probably being a Pats win. There was good coaching on both sides and bad coaching on both sides. I don't see any clear outcoaching.