Memphis Grizzlies 2019-2020

Sam Ray Not

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And the Grizz move to .500 (24-24).

Morant 18 points, 10 assists, zero turnovers, +41 in 28 minutes a 20 point win (for a net +62).

I can almost squint my eyes and imagine them giving the Lakeshow a little bit of trouble in the first round, especially if a rested and healthy Iguodala sticks around, dusts off his LeBron notebook, and gives it a go.
 

BigSoxFan

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Welp, looks like Memphis trade is going to be Green 17. Definitely not what I was expecting this year but whatever.
 

BigMike

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Grizzles beat the Knicks tonight to get back to .500 at 24-24 , pretty impressive after starting the year 6-16.
 

edoug

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Grizzles beat the Knicks tonight to get back to .500 at 24-24 , pretty impressive after starting the year 6-16.
Literally beat them. There wast a fight and Marcus Morris announcing his plans of becoming a future commissioner of the WNBA.
 

HomeRunBaker

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What the hell is Jae Crowder doing? Good for you ElfPay......I'm only slightly disappointed that you didn't shove his ass all the way to the 3rd row!
 

edoug

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I suggest next time aim him away from the stands. Don't want to potentially clock a season ticket holder.

About the complaints of Grizzlies players about a lack of hot water in the locker room, James Dolan was asked if it had anything to do with the skirmish at the end of the game. He said "Nah we were going to do that anyway."
 

benhogan

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I suggest next time aim him away from the stands. Don't want to potentially clock a season ticket holder.

About the complaints of Grizzlies players about a lack of hot water in the locker room, James Dolan was asked if it had anything to do with the skirmish at the end of the game. He said "Nah we were going to do that anyway."
Most season ticket holders were long gone by then, so all are safe :)

2 teams/organizations going in completely opposite directions
 

nighthob

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I suggest next time aim him away from the stands. Don't want to potentially clock a season ticket holder.
The Knicks have season ticket holders? I mean they don’t even have ticket scalpers anymore.
 

InstaFace

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What the hell is Jae Crowder doing? Good for you ElfPay......I'm only slightly disappointed that you didn't shove his ass all the way to the 3rd row!
What is he doing? Playing the game. Like he's paid to do. If the Knicks can't be bothered to do so, that's certainly not Crowder's fault.

Someone needs to write down the unwritten rules about when you stop playing the game, if it's not at the buzzer. Cause people are getting hurt.

edit: like DeJesus posted in the General NBA thread...

View: https://twitter.com/CJC9BOSS/status/1222738756693872640
 
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johnmd20

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The hurt feelings some players get when they are losing is laughably sad. What does it matter if Jae is hucking up a 3 after a steal? If you want to avoid Jae putting up garbage time 3's, because you suck, stop sucking. I know it's not the players' fault, the Knicks' roster is hilariously bad.

Still, buck up a bit there guy, let Jae take the 3. It doesn't matter, he's just working on his shot. The Knicks are basically The Generals anyway.
 

HomeRunBaker

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What is he doing? Playing the game. Like he's paid to do. If the Knicks can't be bothered to do so, that's certainly not Crowder's fault.

Someone needs to write down the unwritten rules about when you stop playing the game, if it's not at the buzzer. Cause people are getting hurt.

edit: like DeJesus posted in the General NBA thread...

View: https://twitter.com/CJC9BOSS/status/1222738756693872640
You are correct in that this is murky with the timeline. I did not realize that this occurred with 50 seconds remaining in the game. This complicated things in an 18-point game. From all the hoopla I was watching in between women’s Australian Open tennis serves I just assumed this happened within the final 24 seconds when I had seen Crowder adhere to the unwritten rule countless times in his career.
 

BigSoxFan

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The hurt feelings some players get when they are losing is laughably sad. What does it matter if Jae is hucking up a 3 after a steal? If you want to avoid Jae putting up garbage time 3's, because you suck, stop sucking. I know it's not the players' fault, the Knicks' roster is hilariously bad.

Still, buck up a bit there guy, let Jae take the 3. It doesn't matter, he's just working on his shot. The Knicks are basically The Generals anyway.
Agreed. If a scrub did this nobody would care. Not even sure why Crowder was even in the game. Isn’t he a key rotation guy for them?
 

InstaFace

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Until such time as a team can formally concede and end the game with a few minutes remaining if they're being blown out - a feature that only exists in boxing, to my knowledge - there should be no expectation that an opponent will let up, at any point, except maybe as a response to injury (As with soccer teams kicking the ball out of play to let someone be attended-to). These are professionals, fans have paid good money to see them play really fucking hard for 48 minutes. Have some goddamn sense of professionalism. I don't care if there's less than 24 seconds left in a 20-point game, if the team with the ball wants to score, they get to try, and if the other team wants to stop them, they get to try too. Manners are for outside the lines (or injuries).

There's an unwritten rule about dribbling out the clock with <24 seconds if the margin is such that the other team is effectively conceding. That's fine. You can all informally agree to do that. But if someone like Jae Crowder doesn't have an Off switch, that's his opponent's problem, not his own.

I'm just trying to imagine if Kevin Garnett felt his opponents were disrespecting the game by not bothering playing basketball with a minute left, and decided to take the ball and dunk on their asses. Anyone going to shove him into the first row? Limbs would be rended from bodies. And if you say no, then all you're really saying is, it's cool to shove a player if he's not big and fierce enough to immediately decide to kick your ass. Jungle rules suck, for all involved.
 

lovegtm

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Until such time as a team can formally concede and end the game with a few minutes remaining if they're being blown out - a feature that only exists in boxing, to my knowledge - there should be no expectation that an opponent will let up, at any point, except maybe as a response to injury (As with soccer teams kicking the ball out of play to let someone be attended-to). These are professionals, fans have paid good money to see them play really fucking hard for 48 minutes. Have some goddamn sense of professionalism. I don't care if there's less than 24 seconds left in a 20-point game, if the team with the ball wants to score, they get to try, and if the other team wants to stop them, they get to try too. Manners are for outside the lines (or injuries).

There's an unwritten rule about dribbling out the clock with <24 seconds if the margin is such that the other team is effectively conceding. That's fine. You can all informally agree to do that. But if someone like Jae Crowder doesn't have an Off switch, that's his opponent's problem, not his own.

I'm just trying to imagine if Kevin Garnett felt his opponents were disrespecting the game by not bothering playing basketball with a minute left, and decided to take the ball and dunk on their asses. Anyone going to shove him into the first row? Limbs would be rended from bodies. And if you say no, then all you're really saying is, it's cool to shove a player if he's not big and fierce enough to immediately decide to kick your ass. Jungle rules suck, for all involved.
Meh, humans are really, really socially evolved creatures that are great at differentiating fuzzy cases from each other. We don't need exact rules as to how many seconds and how big a margin is too much--we're good at figuring that out on the fly. Every single person in the building knew that game was over and that the Knicks had conceded.

If Jae Crowder can't intuit that, that's on him for being shitty at humanoid socialization.
 

johnmd20

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Meh, humans are really, really socially evolved creatures that are great at differentiating fuzzy cases from each other. We don't need exact rules as to how many seconds and how big a margin is too much--we're good at figuring that out on the fly. Every single person in the building knew that game was over and that the Knicks had conceded.

If Jae Crowder can't intuit that, that's on him for being shitty at humanoid socialization.
Taking a 3 pointer with 48 seconds on the clock isn't showing up anyone. It's part of the game. Unless they call the game in the 47th minute, the players can do their best to practice their chosen profession.
 
Oct 17, 2018
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Blaming Crowder for this situation is a garbage take. I guess you can call his play "disrespectful" in that it wasn't necessary to shoot that 3... but it would have been a nothingburger if Payton doesnt take the cheap shot. It was a dirty play that could have hurt someone.

"That shot was disrespectful," Payton said. "I'm standing on that. I'd a did it again. Doesn't matter who took that shot. Don't disrespect the game like that."

He takes a cheap shot and calls the other guy out for disrespecting the game?? I guess that's the Knicks organizational culture for you.
 

tims4wins

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Blaming Crowder for this situation is a garbage take. I guess you can call his play "disrespectful" in that it wasn't necessary to shoot that 3... but it would have been a nothingburger if Payton doesnt take the cheap shot. It was a dirty play that could have hurt someone.

"That shot was disrespectful," Payton said. "I'm standing on that. I'd a did it again. Doesn't matter who took that shot. Don't disrespect the game like that."

He takes a cheap shot and calls the other guy out for disrespecting the game?? I guess that's the Knicks organizational culture for you.
Seems like this is very similar to the Kansas incident
 

HomeRunBaker

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Agreed. If a scrub did this nobody would care. Not even sure why Crowder was even in the game. Isn’t he a key rotation guy for them?
The last time stoppage was for FT’s with 2:03 left and a 13-point game so starters/crunch time players had not yet been subbed out. I believe the subs were at the scorers table when this took place waiting for the next dead ball.
 

lovegtm

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Blaming Crowder for this situation is a garbage take. I guess you can call his play "disrespectful" in that it wasn't necessary to shoot that 3... but it would have been a nothingburger if Payton doesnt take the cheap shot. It was a dirty play that could have hurt someone.

"That shot was disrespectful," Payton said. "I'm standing on that. I'd a did it again. Doesn't matter who took that shot. Don't disrespect the game like that."

He takes a cheap shot and calls the other guy out for disrespecting the game?? I guess that's the Knicks organizational culture for you.
In terms of someone getting hurt, agree, I absolutely blame Payton. That was a dirty play.

But Crowder absolutely should have been able to intuit that the Knicks had conceded and were willing to run out the rest of the game.
 

joe dokes

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Meh, humans are really, really socially evolved creatures that are great at differentiating fuzzy cases from each other. We don't need exact rules as to how many seconds and how big a margin is too much--we're good at figuring that out on the fly. Every single person in the building knew that game was over and that the Knicks had conceded.

If Jae Crowder can't intuit that, that's on him for being shitty at humanoid socialization.
Perhaps. But Payton's a fucking moron for reacting by shoving a guy into the stands. Involving the paying customers in any way is a death-penalty offense in the NBA. He should have stuck to insulting, sexist tweets like his ultra-professional teammate, Mr. Morris.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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"That shot was disrespectful," Payton said. "I'm standing on that. I'd a did it again. Doesn't matter who took that shot. Don't disrespect the game like that."
It's funny Payton should say that because according to BRef's Play Index, the Knicks took 3Ps in the last minute of games up more than 10:

(1) On 1.20, NYK up 103-86 over CLE, Portis takes and makes a 3P with 26 seconds left and
(2) On 1.26, NYK up 110-97 over BRK, Ntilikina takes and misses a 3P with 56 seconds left.

Did Payton shove those two guys into the third row?
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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Wait. Now I'm confused. According to PbP, Dillon Brooks took and made a 3P with 53 seconds left and MEM up 15 (18 afterwards). Why didn't Payton shove Brooks into the 3rd row?
 

lovegtm

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Perhaps. But Payton's a fucking moron for reacting by shoving a guy into the stands. Involving the paying customers in any way is a death-penalty offense in the NBA. He should have stuck to insulting, sexist tweets like his ultra-professional teammate, Mr. Morris.
Sure, I'm fine saying that Jae Crowder is a social idiot, and Elfrid Payton made a dangerous, dumb decision (which is definitely worse). I was just surprised that people view the game of "Has the Other Team Conceded Yet?" an essentially impossible one to solve, when that's clearly not the case.
 

lovegtm

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statistics are fun. According to BRef, there have been 116 instances this season where someone has taken a 3P shot in the last minute up at least 15. Going to be a lot of shoving going on from now on.

How the opponent is playing matters. In some cases, both teams treat garbage time as extended practice, in others they just want to get it over with in that last minute. I hear that the humans are generally able to communicate these differences to each other.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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I was disappointed that I was not able to find an instance of Elfrid Payton taking a 3P shot with less than a minute to go up more than 10 in his career. The closest I was able to find is that on 12.28.17, ORL was beating DET 102-85 when Payton took a 3P with 97 seconds left to go. I presume there is a significant difference between 97 seconds and 48 seconds, at least in his mind.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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How the opponent is playing matters. In some cases, both teams treat garbage time as extended practice, in others they just want to get it over with in that last minute. I hear that the humans are generally able to communicate these differences to each other.
I've seen plenty of 3Ps with more than 24 seconds on the clock that have been uncontested. When Brooks shot the 3P just before Crowder's, NYK had four guys in the paint who weren't moving to play defense?

Unless Payton is talking about Crowder stealing the ball. If that's the case, I'm out on that discussion.
 

Euclis20

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Jae Crowder was being an ass stealing an inbounds pass up 18 with <1 minute to go, and he was equally an ass for shooting the three a few seconds later. I don't know if it's possible to find out, but I'd be curious to see exactly how many of those 116 3s in the final minute of a blowout were shot with 19+ seconds on the shot clock. I'd bet it's a pretty small number, as the most important thing for most guys at that point is to end the game, and the three point shot with the clock winding down is the standard way to hand the ball back over without a turnover. I'm generally not a huge fan of the unwritten rules of sports, but I can 100% understand the Knicks' frustration with Crowder's steal and quick 3. It doesn't remotely justify what came next.

Payton's actions meant that he's now the ass. Congrats, he probably hasn't been in the news this much since he got his hair cut.
 

johnmd20

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statistics are fun. According to BRef, there have been 116 instances this season where someone has taken a 3P shot in the last minute up at least 15. Going to be a lot of shoving going on from now on.

The lack of respect those 116 people showed is worthy of a death sentence. Will NOBODY respect the game?
 

johnmd20

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How the opponent is playing matters. In some cases, both teams treat garbage time as extended practice, in others they just want to get it over with in that last minute. I hear that the humans are generally able to communicate these differences to each other.
If the Knicks decide to stop playing with 48 seconds left in the game, it's not incumbent on the other team to stop playing.
 

nighthob

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Wait. Now I'm confused. According to PbP, Dillon Brooks took and made a 3P with 53 seconds left and MEM up 15 (18 afterwards). Why didn't Payton shove Brooks into the 3rd row?
Because Brooks would have landed in the third row before Elf hit him.

View: https://youtu.be/JNe2oAXwR4Y


The lack of respect those 116 people showed
Eh, it’s a Knicks game, you can’t really demand that fans stay longer than the tipoff.
 
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HomeRunBaker

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In terms of someone getting hurt, agree, I absolutely blame Payton. That was a dirty play.

But Crowder absolutely should have been able to intuit that the Knicks had conceded and were willing to run out the rest of the game.
Yeah. There is a reason that most NBA games end in this fashion and a scenario like this occurs a couple times per year at most.
 

johnmd20

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In terms of someone getting hurt, agree, I absolutely blame Payton. That was a dirty play.

But Crowder absolutely should have been able to intuit that the Knicks had conceded and were willing to run out the rest of the game.
I just rewatched the video of the hit on Crowder. Ye Gods man, how can you defend it in any way? It was beyond dirty, as you note.

You acknowledge it could have caused an injury. That right there is enough evidence to show how ridiculous and thin skinned that hit was. There was nothing to intuit, that was horrendous and should result in a suspension.
 

JakeRae

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I just rewatched the video of the hit on Crowder. Ye Gods man, how can you defend it in any way? It was beyond dirty, as you note.

You acknowledge it could have caused an injury. That right there is enough evidence to show how ridiculous and thin skinned that hit was. There was nothing to intuit, that was horrendous and should result in a very long suspension.
FTFY.
 

NomarsFool

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So, back to the important stuff. How do the trades impact Memphis? It infuriates me how well Sacramento did last year only to suck this year and Memphis sucks last year only to be a no lottery team this year.
 

BigMike

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So, back to the important stuff. How do the trades impact Memphis? It infuriates me how well Sacramento did last year only to suck this year and Memphis sucks last year only to be a no lottery team this year.
They still could sneak into the lottery at 12-14, but the numbers are pretty longshot int he 12-14 range.

Memphis schedule does get a good bit tougher the rest of the way, I think 18/31 the rest of the way are against teams over 500. So getting to 41 wins isn't a sure thing, and even so Portland might pass them, even if they get to 41.

I would give Kleiman Executive of the year for what he has accomplished there
 

benhogan

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They still could sneak into the lottery at 12-14, but the numbers are pretty longshot int he 12-14 range.

Memphis schedule does get a good bit tougher the rest of the way, I think 18/31 the rest of the way are against teams over 500. So getting to 41 wins isn't a sure thing, and even so Portland might pass them, even if they get to 41.

I would give Kleiman Executive of the year for what he has accomplished there
Memphis has great energy, but Dame won't go down without a fight (hopefully).

*thread hijack alert*
Hands down my early Executive of the year goes to Elisberg/Riley - Miami Heat.
With a maxed out salary structure and late '19 lottery pick, this is what they did over the last year:
Added: Butler, Nunn, elevated Robinson (2-way last season), Leonard, Herro, Silva, AI, Crowder
Subtracted: JRich, Waiters, James Johnson, Winslow, Whiteside, McGruder, Wade, Ellington, Tyler Johnson
Just wow, completely turned the roster over with younger, better players.
 

lovegtm

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Memphis has great energy, but Dame won't go down without a fight (hopefully).

*thread hijack alert*
Hands down my early Executive of the year goes to Elisberg/Riley - Miami Heat.
With a maxed out salary structure and late '19 lottery pick, this is what they did over the last year:
Added: Butler, Nunn, elevated Robinson (2-way last season), Leonard, Herro, Silva, AI, Crowder
Subtracted: JRich, Waiters, James Johnson, Winslow, Whiteside, McGruder, Wade, Ellington, Tyler Johnson
Just wow, completely turned the roster over with younger, better players.
The lesson here is how big a deal it is to hit on even a few late picks in a compressed period. It opens everything up in terms of being able to fill around the star who may fall into your lap, and subsequently make deals to complement him.

(The logic applies to the Celtics as well: if they really did hit on Langford and Grant, that matters a ton for the Tatum/Brown core, and could significantly change its trajectory.)
 
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benhogan

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The lesson here is how big a deal it is to hit on even a few late picks in a compressed period. It opens everything up in terms of being able to fill around the star who may fall into your lap, and subsequently make deals to complement him.

(The logic applies to the Celtics as well: if they really did hit on Langford and Grant, that matters a ton for the Tatum/Brown core, and could significantly change its trajectory.)
Agreed. The team that is drafting/developing young players better then anyone now is the Raptors. Watched Terence Davis (undrafted out of Ole Miss) light up the Pacers in Indy last night, the kid is having a very efficient, under the radar season.