Manning Legacy: Scrotal Recall

CarolinaBeerGuy

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As a non-Pats fan, I think most of the Pats fans in this threads are coming across as petty and vindictive. Do you not remember how outraged you were with the way the NFL and ESPN handled Deflategate? To wish that type of situation would be repeated here is downright hypocritical. You guys are supposed to be better than this.
 

TheoShmeo

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Punchado, I disagree about your assessment about the reaction to this story.

If Peyton Manning had done this, and been caught at it, I would have taken a lot of pleasure in it. Why? I don't like Manning and have no problem being an opportunist. And even though no one cares much when guys like Rodney Harrison get caught using HGH, when someone with a golden boy image like Jeter, Manning and yeah, Tom Brady, is revealed as an HGH user, the news would be HUGE precisely because of that image. Maybe his sponsors would stand by him, maybe some would not, but Manning would be perceived differently going forward. Having that walking commercial get taken down a notch or two would give me a lot of pleasure, as would seeing how the media would handle it as compared to the DG feeding frenzy.

All that said, I was leery of this story even before reading that the source recanted and at this point I do believe Manning. Sadly.

Here's to more information coming out and him being revealed as a user.

And AdamNumbers, I agree with the notion that it's unfair to "convict" anyone based on such flimsy information. My joy would be palpable if Manning had done this. At this point, I take no joy at all in this story.
 

NortheasternPJ

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Brady should take note of what a good strong denial can do if you get ahead of it. Instead of laughing and having awkward nondenial press conferences.
 

Lose Remerswaal

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I could give two shits if any athlete uses PEDs. I love with unrestricted joy the fact that golden boy Peyton is getting tagged with this. I don't care if it's true or not, I'm going to really enjoy watching how this plays out. I cannot wait for the hypocrisy to be witnessed on ESPN Monday - PTI and Around the Horn should be fantastic viewing and I very much look forward to the memes and YouTube montages of the disparity between reactions.
FWIW, most of the ESPN "talk shows" are off this next week
 

rodderick

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Brady should take note of what a good strong denial can do if you get ahead of it. Instead of laughing and having awkward nondenial press conferences.
At the time of Brady's press conference it's fair to assume he didn't know 100% whether or not someone had doctored the balls. I mean, even if he had no idea of a scheme or anything, it isn't out of the realm of possibility that it had happened, so considering it wasn't entirely up to him, I can see why he was reticent in coming out and strongly stating those reports were wrong. Even so, he could have done a much better job at saying he had no knowledge of what might have gone on.
 

Devizier

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ESPN and the NFL will ignore this not just because it's Peyton but because nobody wants to inspire digging into PED use in the league.

Frankly, I think the ESPNFL would try to kill this story if it involved Brady too.
I agree. This is a potential snowball for the league. They're going to try their best to kill it, kill it, kill it (with silence).
 

Devizier

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manning categorically denies the allegations and the source of the article has recanted? If so, what's the story here? The NFL is a bunch of fucking hypocrites, but that doesn't mean they should shit their pants again looking to smear manning, does it?
The pharmacist was caught in an undercover sting -- he didn't admit these things freely. Of course he's going to deny everything.
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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Brady should take note of what a good strong denial can do if you get ahead of it. Instead of laughing and having awkward nondenial press conferences.
Bullshit. When he was laughing at the accusations, it was at the stage where all it was was a couple vague, sore-loser-toned tweets from Bob Kravitz. Mort's "11 of 12" tweet was still hours away. Laughing was what the accusations deserved at that point. Shit, it's still what the accusations deserve. The presser was in a different setting but it still boiled down to answering questions about a topic that was being overblown by massive proportions.

On the other hand, there's nothing nebulous about accusations of using PEDs. It's not uncharted territory for players or media. While it's entirely possible that the whole thing could be concocted out of thin air, it's not a preposterous thing for any player to be accused of. Every player in the league is arguably prepared to make these kinds of denials even if they're as straight laced you can get.
 

Eddie Jurak

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As a non-Pats fan, I think most of the Pats fans in this threads are coming across as petty and vindictive. Do you not remember how outraged you were with the way the NFL and ESPN handled Deflategate? To wish that type of situation would be repeated here is downright hypocritical. You guys are supposed to be better than this.
Actually, there is probably no shot of this happening, but what I really want is for the NFL to sweep this under the rug 1) quickly and 2) in such a way that it somehow undermines the NFL's legal case against Brady.
 

snowmanny

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As a non-Pats fan, I think most of the Pats fans in this threads are coming across as petty and vindictive. Do you not remember how outraged you were with the way the NFL and ESPN handled Deflategate? To wish that type of situation would be repeated here is downright hypocritical. You guys are supposed to be better than this.
Vindictive is a good word. Vindictive is how I feel after hearing the stupidest shit ever dumped on Brady, Belichick, the Patriots and New England fans for basically a year. I've given up on actual fairness, so it is in fact fun to see the Dungys and Doyels squirm. I think we are more vindictive than hypocritical.
 
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Devizier

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My hope against hope is that this yields some incriminating memo in the league office -- that they were more than "generally aware" of widespread PED abuse around the league -- but I'm not holding my breath.

ETA: Mike Tyson named at 19 minutes.
Dustin Keller named at 20 minutes.
Sly wearing a Seahawks shirt at 21 minutes.
Manning named at 23 minutes -- his feature starts at 41 minutes.
Mike Neal (Packers) named at 25 minutes.
Clay Matthews named at 26 minutes.
Teagarden caught on camera at 29 minutes.
Howard and Zimmerman named at 35 minutes.
James Harrison (least surprising mention) at 36 minutes.
Julius Peppers at 38 minutes.
 
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Dehere

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Goodell is so upset with Peyton Manning he's going to dock New England two more draft picks. /Tark
 

Fishercat

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It was officially "banned" in 2011, but wasn't tested for until 2014. I assume many players have and continue to use, and for good reason
The MLB had banned a variety of steroids and other PEDs well before they had started testing, yet players who used in that timeframe have had their legacies tarnished. It's the same thing here if this story has legs.
 

jacklamabe65

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Vindictive is a good word. Vindictive is how I feel after hearing the stupidest shit ever dumped on Brady, Belichick, the Patriots and New England fans for basically a year. I've given up on actual fairness, so it is in fact fun to see the Dungys and Doyles squirm. I think we are more vindictive than hypocritical.
It's what he said.
 

snowmanny

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It's what he said.
I know.

Edit: I'm not disputing "vindictive," I'm disputing "hypocritical" because it's not exactly hypocritical if you are being intentionally and humorously (at least in some cases) hypocritical to make a (vindictive) point. I'd prefer just plain old fairness but that seems unlikely right now and it's possible the only road to fairness is through being, well, vindictive.
 
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Section30

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ESPN lead article is now this story as of 8:50am EST.

If the NFL was really smart they should commission a study that links PED use with CTE. "We tried to save these athletes from themselves by our rigorous testing but were unable to catch up with the new developments in designer drugs."
 

rodderick

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As a non-Pats fan, I think most of the Pats fans in this threads are coming across as petty and vindictive. Do you not remember how outraged you were with the way the NFL and ESPN handled Deflategate? To wish that type of situation would be repeated here is downright hypocritical. You guys are supposed to be better than this.
"I know your franchise, fanbase and quarterback have been shat on for a year based on a couple of out of context texts and a fundamental misunderstanding of science, but I'm really disappointed that while the vast majority of you don't hold these allegations against Manning, you aren't actively campaigning for him to get a fair treatment by the press."
 

MarcSullivaFan

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Anyone who's response to this is "yeah, he probably took them but I don't care" or "I'm happy to see the golden boy get tarnished a bit" should be forced to go on a long car ride with the Dorito Dinks and Mark Brunel during which the only conversation topics are cool hunting stories and weight loss techniques. When an athelete of Mannings stature goes all in with a denial that is that absolute it's hard not to believe it. If he took the HGH, got caught and then came out and admitted it I doubt he loses any sponsorships. I think most people don't consider HGH to be the same as "steroids" and Manning has the kind of credibility that could easily turn this into a "guy who was so hurt that he shouldn't have kept playing but just went a little too far trying to hold on just a bit longer" kind of story. After the past year none of us should take any pleasure in this. That said, to me, the real story, if true is that one of the leagues best defensive player is in so much pain all the time that he needs illegal pain killers. One thing all of us can be absolutely certain of, however, is that the NFL will handle this poorly. At least we can count on that.
Agree with all of this. The only thing I see really hurting Manning here is if his unqualified denial turns out to be a lie.

Can't tell anyone else how to feel about this, but I can say that it gives me zero pleasure. There will be no blow-back for the league or ESPN. The idea that they'll be hoisted by their own petard(s) is fantasy. Rog will put his finger to the wind and act accordingly.
 

CarolinaBeerGuy

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"I know your franchise, fanbase and quarterback have been shat on for a year based on a couple of out of context texts and a fundamental misunderstanding of science, but I'm really disappointed that while the vast majority of you don't hold these allegations against Manning, you aren't actively campaigning for him to get a fair treatment by the press."
Jesus.
 

Ed Hillel

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I guess I am having a difficult time agreeing with, "when an athlete of Peyton Manning's stature issues a full denial, it's hard not to believe him." Pretty much every single major athlete part of a major scandal who has been ultimately associated with PED's denied it along the way. I don't take the statement to mean much either way.
 

splendid splinter

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I guess I am having a difficult time agreeing with, "when an athlete of Peyton Manning's stature issues a full denial, it's hard not to believe him." Pretty much every single major athlete part of a major scandal who has been ultimately associated with PED's denied it along the way. I don't take the statement to mean much either way.
Yeah, any difference between how Peyton will initially be treated and how Brady was treated will be all about their respective narratives. Brady's the UGG-wearing Hollywood pretty boy with an out-of-wedlock kid who plays for a shady organization, Peyton is the clean-cut, salt of the earth, earnest All-American. If Brady had issued a categorical denial people would have said "Big deal, Lance Armstrong categorically denied everything for years." Manning does it and people rush to believe him, because why would anyone of his stature lie?
 

rodderick

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Jesus what? You talk as if most here are hoping Manning gets railroaded by the press, when we are just pointing out that if he doesn't, it shows a predisposition against the Patriots, since Brady was crucified 10 minutes after the first Kravitz tweet. If the only way for Pats fans not to be hypocritical is to jump to Manning's defense in this, then yeah, you'll be disappointed.
 

LuckyBen

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Jesus what? You talk as if most here are hoping Manning gets railroaded by the press, when we are just pointing out that if he doesn't, it shows a predisposition against the Patriots, since Brady was crucified 10 minutes after the first Kravitz tweet. If the only way for Pats fans not to be hypocritical is to jump to Manning's defense in this, then yeah, you'll be disappointed.
Not to mention you had fans of other teams on this site coming in saying, "look, it's all there in the Wells report! Brady cheated!" This will just serve as further proof that the Pats and Brady got royally screwed.
 

Devizier

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Can we amend this title to reflect the scope of the allegations? Something like:

Several NFL players, including Peyton Manning, linked to PED abuse.
 
Mar 26, 2014
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I like to believe that this is a moment of exasperation upon realizing just how stupid your previous post was.

You can't pretend the Brady stuff is over. The NFL is still pursuing an appeal on a case where they commissioned a biased report, denied Brady unbiased arbitration, and elevated charges against him multiple times without any new evidence.

Beyond that, we'll be hearing about Brady being a cheater for the rest of our lives. ESPN still regularly throws out that NE taped practices before Superbowl 36. We know that the truth doesn't matter at this point.

So yes, I don't want the NFL, while still pursuing their case against Brady, to just let this one go. And I don't want ESPN, who happily report unsubstantiated rumors and known falsehoods against NE, to start talking about journalistic responsibility in regards to just this specific story.

I either want Manning to get the same treatment (under the theory that while it sucks and is irresponsible, everyone gets treated equally) or for this incident to cause a revision of past incidents.
 

Punchado

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I think I just assume that when given the choice, people, especially people with a lot of professional guidance will chose the option that is less stupid. At least the one that if you play out both scenarios you have the best chance of losing the least. The smart play here if it's true is to create a sympathetic narrative and a tearful apology. Worked for andy pettit. The smart play if it's not true is what he's doing. The stupidest thing they could do is turn this from a "I took some drugs to help me come back from career ending surgery" to "I'm a fucking liar who can't be trusted to sell pizza and insurance." I find that to be a big risk when the downside of telling the truth isn't terribly high. This isn't lance Armstrong or Mark mcquire.

That said, for a year I kept waiting for the NFL to do the smart thing with Brady and they continued to fuck it up.
 

MarcSullivaFan

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I either want Manning to get the same treatment (under the theory that while it sucks and is irresponsible, everyone gets treated equally) or for this incident to cause a revision of past incidents.
The only person who gets hurt in this scenario is Peyton Manning. The bolded is ludicrous. What about the league's past actions makes you think that there is even the most remote possibility of this ocurring? The league and ESPN couldn't care less about being perceived as inconsistent or hypocritical.
 

Tyrone Biggums

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What are the odds of a new "hit" article being on the ESPN website in the next week about the Patriots? I mean clearly they need to link some current players with HGH. Take the light off the golden boy quick even though it's probably not true.
 

Average Reds

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I am amused that so many people here have a hard time grasping a concept we embrace so easily when it comes to baseball. (Shadenfreude.)

The issue isn't about logical consistency in terms of how Manning is treated by the press or the NFL, it's about taking joy in his discomfort. If it turns out that the story has legs, it just gets better.

I will admit that watching Manning use the Clemens strategy of positioning this as being about his wife is awesome. Ari Fleisher's involvement just accentuates the awesome.

A Festivus Miracle.
 

Ralphwiggum

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What are the odds of a new "hit" article being on the ESPN website in the next week about the Patriots? I mean clearly they need to link some current players with HGH. Take the light off the golden boy quick even though it's probably not true.
Can we get a moratorium on this kind of stuff in this thread and just discuss the story? I'm as die hard a Pats fan as anyone but this is just so tiring.
 

jimbobim

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  1. Kirk Minihane ‏@kirkmin 55s56 seconds ago
    Kirk Minihane Retweeted Richard Deitsch

    Kind way of calling ESPN gutless. I'd go with dickless, myself.

    Kirk Minihane added,
    Richard Deitsch @richarddeitsch
    Peyton Manning is very tight with most NFL nets, especially ESPN (Chris Mortensen is a longtime family friend). He'll get benefit of doubt.
    0 retweets0 like
  2. Michael Tanier ‏@MikeTanier 2m2 minutes agoNew Jersey, USA
    Have we named the Peyton thing yet? Can it be #SlyGate? Please oh please let's call it #SlyGate.
 

mwonow

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I am amused that so many people here have a hard time grasping a concept we embrace so easily when it comes to baseball. (Shadenfreude.)

The issue isn't about logical consistency in terms of how Manning is treated by the press or the NFL, it's about taking joy in his discomfort. If it turns out that the story has legs, it just gets better.

I will admit that watching Manning use the Clemens strategy of positioning this as being about his wife is awesome. Ari Fleisher's involvement just accentuates the awesome.

A Festivus Miracle.
For everyone else who lives under a rock (/outside the US), here's the first paragraph of Wikipedia's Fleisher bio:

"Lawrence Ari Fleischer (born October 13, 1960) is a former White House Press Secretary for U.S. PresidentGeorge W. Bush, from January 2001 to July 2003. Today, he works as a media consultant for the NFL,[2]Bowl Championship Series, and other various sports organizations and players through his company, Ari Fleischer Sports Communications.[3] He is also an international media consultant to Canadian Prime Minister Stephen Harper.[4][5] He helped Mark McGwire in his media strategy for his admission of steroid usage. He was also briefly hired by Tiger Woods to help him with a strategy to make his entrance back on the PGA Tour, but was not retained after news stories surfaced promoting his representation of Woods. He was hired by theGreen Bay Packers as a consultant in August 2008."

So - works for the NFL, experience with steroid stories, now part of Peyton's forehead - er, braintrust. All we need now is to find out that his wife is with ESPN, his brother works for Ted Wells and his sister is an Exponent exec, and all of the threads in this forum will achieve one degree of separation.
 

Ed Hillel

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I am loathe to quote Kravitz at all, but this really is just too much:

I’m going to share something with you: About a decade ago or more, I was dealing with several health issues and, in desperation, went to see Dr. Guyer at the Guyer Institute on 82nd Street. Guyer, and his practice, are currently at the center of this growing scandal. My primary complaint was overwhelming and relentless fatigue, and after trying several different remedies, Guyer put me on HGH for a couple of months. He told me it would help with my energy and basically bring me back to the land of the living. Unfortunately, it had zero impact – except on my bank account.
Yes, the same man who broke the Deflategate story went to this very same doctor for...HGH treatments!

http://www.wthr.com/story/30834539/kravitz-if-allegations-against-manning-are-true-another-sports-icon-takes-a-fall
 

jimbobim

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Translation:

"Peyton is an icon with marketing value. Therefore, his word is gospel truth and the story reported by Al Jazeera is false.

Did we mention Al Jazeera?"



Forget about Peyton for a second.

This semi fascinating-predictable easily exploitable story ( see clicks/ratings) that has successfully been kept a lid on as it seems ESPN and NFL Net on their two pregames have decided to completely ignore the story. Al Jazeera has had a very difficult time getting their channel included in packages with providers.

The case has several contrasts with Deflategate the QB here was charged with a easily understood crime , at least at first. Peyton and his team have seen the most effective way to handle the PR with a non positive steroid allegation.

Think the odd recantation video, human instinct to want the top slot in the record books, and the lack of a denial about Manning household getting HGH when the list of acceptable uses is pretty short seeing as Athletes are not allowed to use them for their main purpose ,to heal, adds up to a worrying cocktail for Manning.

Especially if the actual ALJA report includes any further documentation. ESPN reports the guy with the recantation video originally told the guy about Jeter as well but he is not mentioned in the Huff Post initial report.
 

H78

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Look guys.

Seeing how it seems all of the Seahawks, 49ers, and Broncos had heavy PED users active prior to Super Bowl 48, I think the only logical thing to do is strip all of their places in those title games, leaving only New England as the team left and thus crowning them champs that year.

Congrats to the Super Bowl 48 Champion New England Patriots. Tom Brady has finally won #5 to leapfrog Montana.

(See how stupid it sounds when people overreact to fundamentally unimportant "reports"?)
 
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