Kyrie went 5-16 in getting eliminated and we have schadenfreude.

Don Buddin's GS

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What Was Kyrie Irving Thinking? He arrived in Brooklyn a bona fide weirdo. He left for Dallas on even stranger terms.

https://nymag.com/intelligencer/article/kyrie-irving-traded-to-dallas-mavericks-brooklyn-nets.html?utm_campaign=nym&utm_source=tw&utm_medium=s1

If Irving is a once-in-a-generation talent on the court, he’s also deeply of his generation off it — fed by algorithms, drawn to conspiracy, distrustful of a machine even as it makes him rich, more alienated than ever. Irving arrived in Brooklyn considered one of the most enigmatic figures in the NBA, with a mind so internet-pilled and recondite as to be unclassifiable. But he left as a familiar archetype: the loner, the dot-connecting freethinker, clicking around the internet. The kind of person who feels most comfortable when he’s talking to strangers online.
 

HomeRunBaker

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But he left as a familiar archetype: the loner, the dot-connecting freethinker, clicking around the internet. The kind of person who feels most comfortable when he’s talking to strangers online.
Not directed at anyone in particular but this portion of the quote, on this board, which describes a large majority of posters/lurkers…..made me LOL! In a good way.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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Actually, I've been too tough on Irving for his positions. I now see that he is just like me! Well except for the antisemitism and endless drama.

We really don't need think pieces to explain real life trolls who have a platform because they have marketable skills. We live amongst, work with and deal with these folks all the time. Maybe I am the worst of all those things used to describe Kyrie but he's another level. You can relate but not me.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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What Was Kyrie Irving Thinking? He arrived in Brooklyn a bona fide weirdo. He left for Dallas on even stranger terms.

https://nymag.com/intelligencer/article/kyrie-irving-traded-to-dallas-mavericks-brooklyn-nets.html?utm_campaign=nym&utm_source=tw&utm_medium=s1

If Irving is a once-in-a-generation talent on the court, he’s also deeply of his generation off it — fed by algorithms, drawn to conspiracy, distrustful of a machine even as it makes him rich, more alienated than ever. Irving arrived in Brooklyn considered one of the most enigmatic figures in the NBA, with a mind so internet-pilled and recondite as to be unclassifiable. But he left as a familiar archetype: the loner, the dot-connecting freethinker, clicking around the internet. The kind of person who feels most comfortable when he’s talking to strangers online.
Thanks for posting. I wonder what Kyrie would do if someone got him to see how much of his life is dominated by the giant tech companies (social media; gaming; etc.) that he clearly doesn't include in his definition of "Establishment".

The only other perhaps insightful thing I have to say is that Kyrie may be more vocal than most but I'm sure one of the reasons he is so well-liked by players is that players believe similar things as he does. I mean you're talking about fabulously wealthy guys, many of whom don't have a great community surrounding them to begin with and who spend an inordinate amount of time doing things by themselves. And many of them could feel like one NBA exec says about Irving: “This is a guy who is feeling things a lot, but he doesn’t understand why he’s feeling them. Then he finds an external reason for Why do I have so much angst and unhappiness?
 

Jimbodandy

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I take more issue with the phrase "once-in-a-generation talent". There are a few other guys in the top25 DARKO who do what he does on the court, some of them better. Even if he weren't a whack job, I'd love to know what he does on the court that Curry and Lillard don't do.
 

Kliq

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I take more issue with the phrase "once-in-a-generation talent". There are a few other guys in the top25 DARKO who do what he does on the court, some of them better. Even if he weren't a whack job, I'd love to know what he does on the court that Curry and Lillard don't do.
I was thinking about that too. I guess pure talent, like his skill around the basket and his dribbling, could be considered without peer, but as far as a player he is what, the 4th or 5th best PG of his generation? Depends on how you classify Harden, but he's behind Curry, Dame, maybe Westbrook. Would you rather have Jrue Holliday or Kyrie?
 

Cellar-Door

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I take more issue with the phrase "once-in-a-generation talent". There are a few other guys in the top25 DARKO who do what he does on the court, some of them better. Even if he weren't a whack job, I'd love to know what he does on the court that Curry and Lillard don't do.
I think he's a once in a generation talent, just not a once in a generation player. His handle is maybe the best ever, and he's arguably the best in his generation at 2pt scoring for a high volume PG, he's rim finishing, and contested shot making in particular.

Kyrie's talent is absurd, his production doesn't always match it though.
 

Jimbodandy

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I was thinking about that too. I guess pure talent, like his skill around the basket and his dribbling, could be considered without peer, but as far as a player he is what, the 4th or 5th best PG of his generation? Depends on how you classify Harden, but he's behind Curry, Dame, maybe Westbrook. Would you rather have Jrue Holliday or Kyrie?
I think that even the guys with his style...Curry does pretty much everything that he can but just isn't as flashy. The floaters, creating separation, driving, finishing. Not sure that Kyrie's skill around the basket is better. Trae does most of that stuff too, albeit not quite as well as Kyrie at the moment. Same stuff though.

If Kyrie had Tatum's personality, I'd rather have Kyrie than Holliday. But I'd still rather have Curry or Dame.
 

Jimbodandy

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I think he's a once in a generation talent, just not a once in a generation player. His handle is maybe the best ever, and he's arguably the best in his generation at 2pt scoring for a high volume PG, he's rim finishing, and contested shot making in particular.

Kyrie's talent is absurd, his production doesn't always match it though.
His handle is generational for sure.

But "arguably the best in his generation" at X or Y does not a "generational talent" make. Just checked NBA.com for "Drives", filtering by Guard. He's behind Doncic, Mitchell, and Curry this year in FG% on those shots. That's an imperfect measure obviously, but I'm not smart enough to find the finishing numbers. He's close to Curry and DeRozan on Drive FG% on guards, which is fantastic but not generational.

edit: I suspect that the "generational" thing refers to his handle and being iconic more than his actual basketball talent (which is formidable of course).
 

Cellar-Door

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His handle is generational for sure.

But "arguably the best in his generation" at X or Y does not a "generational talent" make. Just checked NBA.com for "Drives", filtering by Guard. He's behind Doncic, Mitchell, and Curry this year in FG% on those shots. That's an imperfect measure obviously, but I'm not smart enough to find the finishing numbers. He's close to Curry and DeRozan on FG% on guards, which is fantastic but not generational.

edit: I suspect that the "generational" thing refers to his handle and being iconic more than his actual basketball talent.
3 year splits he's ahead of Curry, I didn't check wings like DeRozan, PGs are a different breed.
I get the case for Kyrie, nobody has his handle, and his TOV% is absurdly low, he finishes at the rim and midrange at the top of the league for his position. If he ever consistently locked in, and had the attitude of a real grinder he'd be on the MVP shortlist every year.... but he doesn't, he coasts.

Also... the fact we're comparing him to Curry kind of makes the point doesn't it? Curry is going to end up a top 20 all-time player, and we're assessing what other than 3pt shooting he does better than Kyrie.
 

Jimbodandy

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3 year splits he's ahead of Curry, I didn't check wings like DeRozan, PGs are a different breed.
I get the case for Kyrie, nobody has his handle, and his TOV% is absurdly low, he finishes at the rim and midrange at the top of the league.

Also... the fact we're comparing him to Curry kind of makes the point doesn't it? Curry is going to end up a top 20 all-time player, and we're assessing what other than 3pt shooting he does better than Kyrie.
It makes the point that he's in a generation with guys who do everything that he does and is therefore not a generational talent.
 

Cellar-Door

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It makes the point that he's in a generation with guys who do everything that he does and is therefore not a generational talent.
except... he does most of those things better, or at least has more talent at them. Unless we really want to argue that you can only be a generational talent if you are the best in your generation at every NBA talent... in which case there has never been a generational talent ever.

Kyrie is the best in his generation (probably best ever) at one skill, he's arguably the best in his generation at several more. His Talent is insane, his production isn't top of his generation, but his talent... yeah it kind of is.
 

Jimbodandy

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except... he does most of those things better, or at least has more talent at them. Unless we really want to argue that you can only be a generational talent if you are the best in your generation at every NBA talent... in which case there has never been a generational talent ever.

Kyrie is the best in his generation (probably best ever) at one skill, he's arguably the best in his generation at several more. His Talent is insane, his production isn't top of his generation, but his talent... yeah it kind of is.
No that's fair. He has Generational Handle. That would include say AI as well in his generation. Or Manute Bol in his for shotblocking. I was thinking of this as a higher bar.
 

Euclis20

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In a world in which Kyrie's head is on straight, we're debating whether he or Dame is the 2nd best point guard of the last decade, behind Curry. He absolutely can do some things better than those 2, but so what? Marcus Smart can do some things better than they can as well, it doesn't make him a better point guard overall.
 

HomeRunBaker

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I think he's a once in a generation talent, just not a once in a generation player. His handle is maybe the best ever, and he's arguably the best in his generation at 2pt scoring for a high volume PG, he's rim finishing, and contested shot making in particular.

Kyrie's talent is absurd, his production doesn't always match it though.
This is a great description of Kyrie imo. There are some with handles close but nobody close to having Kyrie’s handle and ability to create shots with it…..he’s extremely efficient with it and every bounce and/or feint has a purpose to it to gain an angle or space to create a shot. So debating generational talents aside…..Kyrie certainly has specific generational skills that nobody else possesses at his level.
 

Myt1

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Everyone has double standards. They will criticize Kyrie for tweeting about the movie……yet they will gladly continue paying Amazon each month despite them still promoting the movie on their platform to this day. I’m sure many on this board are included.

I’m not saying you’re a bad person for your Amazon subscription only pointing out the double standard.
http://sonsofsamhorn.net/index.php?threads/kyries-comments-on-race-in-boston.33630/post-4435508

http://sonsofsamhorn.net/index.php?threads/kyrie-irving-traded-to-celtics-for-it-crowder-zizic-bkn-1st-2020-2nd.20638/post-2412216

http://sonsofsamhorn.net/index.php?threads/kyrie-speculation.26113/post-3262318

http://sonsofsamhorn.net/index.php?threads/kyrie-is-a-maverick-and-we-have-schadenfreude.33807/post-5062389

I mean, this is my absolute favorite:

I think a lot of people fail to realize that even though an NBA player has his primary responsibility there is a TON of downtime not associated with basketball even during the season. Kyrie has done some rap tracks and really wants to be more involved in social issues than the Cavs would allow him to do in preferring him to act as "Bron's little brother." I don't expect Kyrie to pull a Kaepernick but he will be the guy leading the Celtics when social issues arise simply because that is who he is.
But, yeah, dude. It’s everyone else who is blinded by their double standards here.
 

luckiestman

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I mean, this is my absolute favorite:



But, yeah, dude. It’s everyone else who is blinded by their double standards here.

I’m a Kyrie hater from way back and I don’t see this as an own. Kyrie is incredibly charitable. In his galaxy brain he probably thought that documentary was to uplift black people.
 

Myt1

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I’m a Kyrie hater from way back and I don’t see this as an own. Kyrie is incredibly charitable. In his galaxy brain he probably thought that documentary was to uplift black people.
I’m astounded that he had time to watch it, given all the time he’s spent leading on social issues. Also, I’m about to boycott my local library for carrying copies of Mein Kampf, because I don’t want to judge the guy tweeting about it positively with a double standard.
 

HomeRunBaker

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When did I ever say “everyone else?” If you took the time to read it I included myself as having double standard is human nature. I know you hate the guy but he’s done a ton of behind the scenes charity work and financial contributions that the recipients leaked.
 
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Myt1

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When did I ever say “everyone else?” If you took the time to read it I included myself as having double standard is human nature. I know you hate the guy but he’s done a ton of behind the scenes charity work and financial contributions that the recipients leaked.
Right. And the big issue with the Cavs was that they totally wouldn’t let him do that. And the big issue with the Celtics was that his younger teammates didn’t know what it took to win, but he did (maybe he’s since forgotten). And the issue with playing for Brooklyn wasn’t about him not getting vaccinated, it was about NYC denying a man a right to make a living. And the thing about his reasonable questions of the roundness of the earth is about people misrepresenting what he said. And Brooklyn lowballed him, and there was therefore nothing unusual to him wanting out, just a typical, run of the mill disagreement of value. And the real issue with the movie is other people’s double standards in continuing to use Amazon, because that’s a relevantly similar behavior.

If it were any one thing, it would just be one thing. But you’re pathological in your excuse making and blaming of others for Irving’s benefit. Despite that level of consistency, it’s everyone else on the board who’s off because they “hate the guy.”

Like this guy . . . or not.

http://sonsofsamhorn.net/index.php?threads/kyrie-is-a-maverick-and-we-have-schadenfreude.33807/post-5409111
 
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the moops

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I think it's a clear yes. 8x all star, 3x All-NBA, probably the most skilled ballhandler of all time, hit one of the greatest shots in Finals history, and he's still playing at a high level and probably will for at least the next few years.
He really would be my favorite player if he wasn’t such a terrible person. I can overlook a lot of stuff, especially for the uber talented. But man, it is so disappointed because watching him just play offensive basketball is an absolute joy.
 

BaseballJones

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Of course. But there are guys like Bobby Jones in the HOF with 4x All Star appearances and one ring. He did make 2nd team All ABA once. Even Phil Rizzuto won an MVP. Phil had once in a generation WPIX commercials.
Bobby Jones was a LOT better than this little summary gives him credit for.

But your point is still well taken.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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Of course. But there are guys like Bobby Jones in the HOF with 4x All Star appearances and one ring. He did make 2nd team All ABA once. Even Phil Rizzuto won an MVP. Phil had once in a generation WPIX commercials.
Bobby Jones was one of the best defenders of all times; he was 1st team All-NBA All Defense 9 straight years and 2nd team the 10th. He also spent some time in the ABA where he was one of the best players in the league. Really a joy to watch play even though he was on PHI.
 

lovegtm

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Jones' athleticism & length pop off the screen so hard. I'm younger, so didn't see him play, and I remember being shocked when watching old Sixers highlights for the first time.
 

lexrageorge

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Bobby Jones was given the duty to guard Larry Bird during those epic Celtics-Sixers matchups of the early 1980's. He certainly earned his HoF plaque through his defense.

If Kyrie were to up and retire today, he would be a no-doubt first ballot Hall of Famer. The only way he doesn't make it is if he goes full Curt Schilling over the next several years, and even then I would still bet on him having a plaque in Springfield.
 

joe dokes

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In addition to his defense, Jones never had a FG% lower than 52% (career 56%). He was HoF worthy, and probably got a boost from any wavering voters for being on the screwed 72 Olympic team.
 

benhogan

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Of course. But there are guys like Bobby Jones in the HOF with 4x All Star appearances and one ring. He did make 2nd team All ABA once. Even Phil Rizzuto won an MVP. Phil had once in a generation WPIX commercials.
Holy cow White, did ya see that! still haunts me to this day.
 

Jimbodandy

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I knew that attaching a name to "anyone can get in the Basketball HOF" would raise some eyebrows. And I mean no slander at Bobby Jones. I missed his 1970s years, but I watched him play too. Man was a defensive beast, and I'm not at all saying that he doesn't belong in the hoop HOF. I'm saying that a guy with his resume wouldn't make it in either the baseball or football halls of fame.

Only thing the guy led the NBA in was FG% once. 4x all star. Zero all-NBA (one all-ABA, second team). The defensive awards are real, and maybe he would have won a DPOY if the award existed earlier in his career. But the equivalent is a baseball player with 4 all-star games, 9 gold gloves, 90 OPS+, and one year where he led the league in triples.
 

Devizier

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I don’t know, Bobby Jones seems like a reasonable pick. A great role player who got in with an assist from fortuitous context. Had what in baseball terms we might call a “Hall of the Very Good” career. Regardless, Kyrie is definitely a HOF lock even if he retires today.
 

BaseballJones

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Bobby Jones happily accepted the 6th man role in Philly, because the 76ers went with a front court of Dr J, Caldwell Jones, and Dawkins. Remember back then teams loved going big big big up front. Jones easily could have been a starter on so many teams and averaged 20+ points a game, but he never averaged more than 10.7 FGA a game.

Plus, it isn't the NBA hall of fame. It's the BASKETBALL hall of fame. And he had a sterling 3-year college career at UNC, averaging nearly 14 points and 9 rebounds a game, while shooting over 60% from the floor for his career. Plus he was on the Olympic team in 1972.

All that being said, Kyrie is obviously a much better player and really will be a shoo-in for the HOF.
 

benhogan

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I knew that attaching a name to "anyone can get in the Basketball HOF" would raise some eyebrows. And I mean no slander at Bobby Jones. I missed his 1970s years, but I watched him play too. Man was a defensive beast, and I'm not at all saying that he doesn't belong in the hoop HOF. I'm saying that a guy with his resume wouldn't make it in either the baseball or football halls of fame.

Only thing the guy led the NBA in was FG% once. 4x all star. Zero all-NBA (one all-ABA, second team). The defensive awards are real, and maybe he would have won a DPOY if the award existed earlier in his career. But the equivalent is a baseball player with 4 all-star games, 9 gold gloves, 90 OPS+, and one year where he led the league in triples.
He was a high-end complimentary player, along with Cheeks, Toney, Double D, Hollins, Collins that aided Dr. J's dominance on those 76er teams.

Springfield is a lower bar than Canton/Cooperstown.

Then again I'm biased. I'm unapologetically here for any 1980s 76ers or Lakers slander.
 

Jimbodandy

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I don’t know, Bobby Jones seems like a reasonable pick. A great role player who got in with an assist from fortuitous context. Had what in baseball terms we might call a “Hall of the Very Good” career. Regardless, Kyrie is definitely a HOF lock even if he retires today.
I don't think that we're in disagreement. Jones belongs in, so does Kyrie. But partly because it just isn't that hard to get in.


He was a high-end complimentary player, along with Cheeks, Toney, Double D, Hollins, Collins that aided Dr. J's dominance on those 76er teams.

Springfield is a lower bar than Canton/Cooperstown.

Then again I'm biased. I'm unapologetically here for any 1980s 76ers or Lakers slander.
Same.

I could have used Calvin Murphy too. I don't think that my brain went to Jones by accident.
 
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HomeRunBaker

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He was a high-end complimentary player, along with Cheeks, Toney, Double D, Hollins, Collins that aided Dr. J's dominance on those 76er teams.

Springfield is a lower bar than Canton/Cooperstown.

Then again I'm biased. I'm unapologetically here for any 1980s 76ers or Lakers slander.
If Draymond were a wiry white guy who didn’t talk shit or play the tough guy role he’d be Bobby Jones. He was the ideal complimentary player on those Sixer teams.
 

BaseballJones

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If Draymond were a wiry white guy who didn’t talk shit or play the tough guy role he’d be Bobby Jones. He was the ideal complimentary player on those Sixer teams.
The fact is...Bobby Jones would have made a GREAT Celtic. Willing to do whatever was needed, happy to let others be the alpha scorers, consummate teammate.
 

Bernie Carbohydrate

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Then again I'm biased. I'm unapologetically here for any 1980s 76ers or Lakers slander.
Worst Sixer HOF-er?

Bailey Howell? But he was barely a Sixer (one season as a backup in his twilight).

Chet "The Jet" Walker? Seven times an all-star, one ring, excellent mustache gets him in.

Looks like the honor goes to George Yardley. Come on. They count him but the played for the franchise when it was in Syracuse. Retired at age 31 rather than move to Philadelphia and play in that hellhole of a city.
 

Jimbodandy

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p.s., 1980s Sixers slander is doled out for fun, but I have tons of respect for those teams. Will never forget the genuine well-wishing that we all felt during the "Beat L.A." chant's creation in game 7 of the 1982 ECF. Took them a year to get the job done, but I was happy for them. Tough team, including BJ.

FWIW, I like that it doesn't take an act of God to get into the HOF for hoop. It doesn't need to be as super restrictive as the other two big ones.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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I knew that attaching a name to "anyone can get in the Basketball HOF" would raise some eyebrows. And I mean no slander at Bobby Jones. I missed his 1970s years, but I watched him play too. Man was a defensive beast, and I'm not at all saying that he doesn't belong in the hoop HOF. I'm saying that a guy with his resume wouldn't make it in either the baseball or football halls of fame.

Only thing the guy led the NBA in was FG% once. 4x all star. Zero all-NBA (one all-ABA, second team). The defensive awards are real, and maybe he would have won a DPOY if the award existed earlier in his career. But the equivalent is a baseball player with 4 all-star games, 9 gold gloves, 90 OPS+, and one year where he led the league in triples.
I thought Ozzie Smith made it to the HOF. :cool:

Will never forget the genuine well-wishing that we all felt during the "Beat L.A." chant's creation in game 7 of the 1982 ECF.
It was certainly spine-tingling hearing that chat in my house on tape-delay . . . .
 

Kliq

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Bobby Jones was a charter member on Bill Simmons' "White guys who played like Black guys" All-Star team.