Jacksonity......or the Knick thread
- Thread starter Rocco Graziosa
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NY starting to gel a bit (Amar'e/Shumpert/Felton have all returned in recent weeks), and the weak schedule isn't hurting.
Nice win tonight against MIL (their first round opponent at 2/7 if the playoffs started today) in a game they easily could have conceded down 12 early in the 3rd, but instead they ended on a 49-27 run, spearheaded by a Finals-against-Miami level performance from Chandler (who's coasted through a good bit of the year so far but has picked it up in the two games since being picked to his first All-Star team) with his first 20 rebound effort since 2008.
Nice win tonight against MIL (their first round opponent at 2/7 if the playoffs started today) in a game they easily could have conceded down 12 early in the 3rd, but instead they ended on a 49-27 run, spearheaded by a Finals-against-Miami level performance from Chandler (who's coasted through a good bit of the year so far but has picked it up in the two games since being picked to his first All-Star team) with his first 20 rebound effort since 2008.
I've been putting off mentioning this because I had so much trouble believing it, but. . .
Amare Stoudemire is actually playing really well off the bench. His defensive limitations will always be there, but he's embraced his bench role, plays hard, and is attacking the basket and utilizing a post game that he didn't have last year. If you take a look at his shot charts this year, the vast majority of his attempts are coming in the paint. His true shooting percentage is at .651%, and he's scoring more points per 100 possessions than he has at any point in his career. It's only been 16 games, so there are obviously sample size issues, but adding an efficient scorer to the second unit alongside JR Smith has been really big for this team. I wasn't sure that Stoudemire was capable of adjusting his game at this point in his career, but he's scoring in much different ways than he has in the past, and playing with a lot of energy and effort.
Amare Stoudemire is actually playing really well off the bench. His defensive limitations will always be there, but he's embraced his bench role, plays hard, and is attacking the basket and utilizing a post game that he didn't have last year. If you take a look at his shot charts this year, the vast majority of his attempts are coming in the paint. His true shooting percentage is at .651%, and he's scoring more points per 100 possessions than he has at any point in his career. It's only been 16 games, so there are obviously sample size issues, but adding an efficient scorer to the second unit alongside JR Smith has been really big for this team. I wasn't sure that Stoudemire was capable of adjusting his game at this point in his career, but he's scoring in much different ways than he has in the past, and playing with a lot of energy and effort.
Grin&MartyBarret said:
I know that at this point everyone seems to have been coached by Hakeem, but man you can really see it with Amare. His post game has gone from average at best to a real weapon, and you can tell he has confidence when he catches the ball down low. I'm sure it's helped that he's usually going against 2nd unit big men, but still. I've been really impressed by him. I think a lot of the "Melo has changed his game!" talk is overblown, but Amare really has changed his game. He knew he wasn't gonna get nearly as many P&R chances and his jumpshooting clashes with Melo's game. A post game is the perfect fit - no one else on the Knicks really has much of one.
If anything, you guys are understating it. He might be the second best post scorer in the league right now behind Brook Lopez, and he's done it against top defenders like Larry Sanders and Andre Drummond among others. Also he has buried the few 15 foot jumpers he's attempted recently, he looks unguardable one-on-one right now.
And Indiana quickly pulls NY back to reality, just demolishing them right now, 102-66 after 3 quarters. NY will be lucky to get out of the first round, Woodson is also showing his limitations in recent weeks as are most of the players.
Yeah, not the best constructed team in the world. "Good" Felton of this year is basically identical to bad Felton of last year, and the defense has disappeared. Just not a very good team right now.jon abbey said:
Nets are just one game back and NYK have to play 4 more games than Brooklyn before the end of the season.
jon abbey said:
The most frustrating thing is that the way this roster is constructed, there's really no way to make any improvements via trade. Shumpert's the only guy who is move-able and has value that isn't a key rotation guy. But to move him for anybody that's not on an identical rookie deal, the Knicks have to include salary, and everybody they could move is either making very little money (Prigioni, Copeland, White, Wallace, Brewer, Thomas) or was inexplicable signed long term (Kidd, Camby). So, a deal that would help like the rumored Redick deal either requires Orlando taking Shumpert and 4 other guys (which creates roster issues and means they have to swallow money on cuts) or requires them to take a 3 year deal like Camby or Kidd back. Which nobody wants to do.
This team is just not very good. I would rather play them in the first round than pretty much any other team in the east.
Perhaps Milwaukee and Atlanta but they're in the mix for an ideal first round match up.
Perhaps Milwaukee and Atlanta but they're in the mix for an ideal first round match up.
But if playing them means you are 4 or 5, is it worth it (rather than go for 6 or 7)knucklecup said:
It's too hard to say where everything will align come playoff time.
They will get to the ECF's and have another shot of taking down Miami if the cards fall their way.
At this point, the Celtics simply can't be the 8th seed. That is theirs and my only concern.
They will get to the ECF's and have another shot of taking down Miami if the cards fall their way.
At this point, the Celtics simply can't be the 8th seed. That is theirs and my only concern.
Rasheed Wallace needs surgery on his foot and will be out for (another) 8 weeks.
Not really surprising, nor was it ever wise that the Knicks were counting on him for minutes, but now between him and Camby being out, and Thomas generally being useless, the Knicks have pretty serious depth issues up front. Don't be surprised to see Kenyon Martin's contract become guaranteed for the rest of the season.
Not really surprising, nor was it ever wise that the Knicks were counting on him for minutes, but now between him and Camby being out, and Thomas generally being useless, the Knicks have pretty serious depth issues up front. Don't be surprised to see Kenyon Martin's contract become guaranteed for the rest of the season.
For a team that's thin up front and in the back court, it's really frustrating that the Knicks sent away two, young, cheap players in Toney Douglas and Josh Harrellson to acquire Marcus Camby. They also, of course, sent out two draft picks and money. Pretty baffling, considering that Harrellson and Douglas would both be getting minutes for the Knicks right now.
Camby led the entire league in rebound percentage last year, and those other two guys are scrubs and I disagree either would be in the rotation right now. Douglas is better than Prigioni? Harrelson is better than Martin or Camby? Woodson doesn't even play the one young guy he has, Shumpert, nearly enough.
jon abbey said:
The point isn't that Harrellson is better than Camby, it's that he and Douglas are cheaper, and are not 38 years old. I love Marcus Camby, but relying on him at age 38 was clearly a mistake. And I can only imagine his age 39 and 40 seasons won't go particularly well, either. And unfortunately that mistake was compounded by the fact that the Knicks also gave contracts to 2 other 38+ year old big men, and then signed a 35 year old who was out of the league when Camby, Wallace, and Thomas proved unable to give them reliable minutes. Do I think Harrellson is a great player? No, of course not. But I think he's a competent defender and rebounder who could have been relied upon for minutes and that his production would have been similar to what Martin's going to offer (for what it's worth, Harrellson was the better player in fewer minutes last season). At this point, the Knicks really need one 35+ year old big man to be able to contribute down the stretch and in the playoffs, and none of them seem like great bets to do so.
As for Douglas, this team gets killed by every competent point guard in the league. I think the Knicks could find minutes for a good perimeter defender like Douglas, especially since he rebounded from his dreadful shooting last season and is shooting 37% from 3 this year. The Knicks just showed interest in Aaron Brooks before he decided to sign in Houston, so they're clearly not happy with the guard rotation as is. And Douglas is shooting just as well as Brooks right now, and is a much better defender.
Mike Woodson drives me completely crazy. An overall great Melo-less game against the Thunder comes down to the last possession with the Knicks down 1, and out comes the eminently predictable and idiotic iso-JR. Just ruined a fun game for me. So so so so so fucking stupid.
But if the Knicks keep losing, the tiny chance the Celtics make it to 2 or 3 gets a smidgeon bigger? So shouldn't we be happy?cromulence said:
I checked both teams schedules. The kncis have a tougher schedule including a trip in the west, but they would really have to screw the pooch in order to drop behind us.
If the celts can win 70% (80% at home and 60% on the road), and the knicks go 50% at home and 45% on the road, the Celts come in 3rd (one game).Nick Kaufman said:
Not likely (the Celts don't have a real easy schedule), but not impossible.
Is it worth trying for #3, and probably ending up 4 or 5... which is arguably worse then 6 or 7 (might as well dodge the Heat until round 3)?
Probably not worth straining for, but it makes for a decent motivational goal.
I elaborate on this in http://sonsofsamhorn.net/topic/76248-is-67-better-than-45/
dhellers said:
Yeah I'm a Knicks fan, so not really. That said I was fully expecting a loss last night so it really was a fun game. Just wish they used the 8 seconds they had, even if the shot didn't end up going in. That play was brutal.
Celts still have 2 against the Knicks, so to have any real chance of catching them, those 2 games have to be wins for the Cs.
I wouldn't rule out that possibility.
I wouldn't rule out that possibility.
bankshot1 said:
Well, the rest of this week should be pretty easy. Today's game against the freefalling Jazz, then Orlando and a home-and-home with Toronto. After that, though, it gets decidedly tougher.
@Boston
Memphis
Charlotte
Boston
@Miami
@Atlanta
Milwaukee
@OKC
They'll probably survive the week without Melo, but with Amar'e now gone, they need him 100 percent healthy after that if they don't want to slide down the standings.
EDIT: Whoops, I jumped a week. That Orlando-Toronto-Toronto bit is the week after this one. Instead, this is the gauntlet that awaits them:
@Golden State
@Denver
@Portland
@LA Clippers
Before that Utah-Orlando-Toronto-Toronto week. So, uh ... get well soon, Melo.
Yeah I've given up on their chances for the most part. Melo looks awful and needs to just sit his ass down. Oh well, it was fun for a few months.
So Melo is reportedly getting his knee drained tomorrow in New York. With Chandler and Amar'e already down, the Knicks might freefall.
Chandler passed on a knee exam, saying he can run - and therefore will play. But still, NY is facing a brutal schedule the next 3 games. Celts are 4 back (5 in the loss column) and if they can cut that deficit to 3 in the loss column by the 3/26 match-up in NYC..that game becomes pretty damn interesting.TheYellowDart5 said:
Celts until 3/26
vs Charlotte 3/16
vs Miami 3/18
@ New Orleans 3/20
@ Dallas 3/22
@ Memphis 3/23
NYK until 3/26
@ Portland
@ Clippers
@ Utah
vs Orlando
@ Toronto
vs Toronto
Both schedules are tough, but the if the Celtics go 3-2 while NY goes 2-4, Boston will be 2.5 games back for that MSG showdown.
Still a long shot to win the division but a 6th straight Atlantic crown isn't completely out of the picture. It would also ensure we don't see Miami until the ECF.
OTOH, there is something to be said for facing Miami while still fresh. That is, ending up at 4/5, and playing Miami in round 2.BellhornIsGod said:
After all, the goal is to win it all, not just survive as long as possible. And that goal remains operative even if the odds are notSoGood!
Kenyon Martin has turned this team around, both with his play and with his chemistry with JR Smith, who has played out of his mind the last two nights (67 points in wins @BOS and MEM). NY has now won six in a row without Chandler and Amar'e, I doubt many would have thought that possible before Kenyon the Tattooed Savior showed up.
When was the last time anyone had anything remotely positive to say about Kenyon Martin? 2004? I admit I haven't been a ton of attention to his career but jeez.
Actually he was big in game 7 in Memphis last year, helping the Clippers win that series on the road.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/05/13/clippers-grizzlies-game-7-spurs-kenyon-martin_n_1513190.html
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/05/13/clippers-grizzlies-game-7-spurs-kenyon-martin_n_1513190.html
JR Smith with his third huge game in a row off the bench, first NBA player to score 30+ off the bench in three straight since Ricky Pierce in 1990.
NY is a remarkable 27-4 this year and last when JR shoots 50 percent or better, he is playing the best ball of his life right now.
NY is a remarkable 27-4 this year and last when JR shoots 50 percent or better, he is playing the best ball of his life right now.
Melo tied his career high with 50 on 18-26 from the field against a depleted Miami team, but what's worth nothing is that he got nothing in the paint or inside of 15 feet, 7-10 from 3 point range, 11-16 on 2 pointers, all jumpers.
Miami losses by more than 10 this season:
NY-3
rest of the league combined-3
And NY was up by 16 in their other meeting before Miami came back in that one.
Miami losses by more than 10 this season:
NY-3
rest of the league combined-3
And NY was up by 16 in their other meeting before Miami came back in that one.
jon abbey said:
To be fair, that last win was Miami without LeBron or Wade. But the point still holds: If those two teams meet in the playoffs, the Knicks will give them trouble.
Meanwhile, Melo drops 40 on Atlanta tonight; the Knicks have won 10 straight and are alone in the second seed. My prediction of their imminent demise post-injuries was, uh, kind of wrong.
The first win in Miami was without Melo, and with James and Wade (I have no idea how that happened). Actually the Heat with all three of James/Wade/Bosh playing have only lost three games by 20+ points since coming together three seasons ago, one to the Spurs and two to the Knicks this year.
The Knicks' problem will be getting to Miami, likely having to face two of three of BOS/CHI/IND.
The Knicks' problem will be getting to Miami, likely having to face two of three of BOS/CHI/IND.
Since every attempt I've made to predict what's going to happen with this team has been off, I'm just gonna go ahead and predict a first round loss to the Celtics inexplicably followed by losses in the semi's and conference finals as well.
Melo is the first player since Jordan to score 40+ on 60%+ shooting three games in a row. Kobe never did it, Durant never did it, LeBron never did it, etc.
Melo and JR both playing the best ball of their lives right now, no exaggeration, 71 combined from them tonight, no one else in double figures. If they can both keep this going into the playoffs, NY will be a tough out for anyone (of course they could easily lose to BOS or CHI in the first round also).
Melo and JR both playing the best ball of their lives right now, no exaggeration, 71 combined from them tonight, no one else in double figures. If they can both keep this going into the playoffs, NY will be a tough out for anyone (of course they could easily lose to BOS or CHI in the first round also).
jon abbey said:
Tomorrow's game against the Thunder should be interesting. It'll be a good test for both teams as they move toward the playoffs.
That amare injury looks like a positive, not exactly ideal when an uninsured max contract being hurt makes your team better, but the Knicks will clearly take being seriously playoff relevant again for sure
jon abbey said:
That's a great stat. Needless to say, today was a huge win without Martin or Camby.
Knicks win their 13th in a row (3rd longest streak in franchise history behind 18 in 1969-70 and 15 in 1994), and clinch their first division title since 1994. Melo is the first player to score 35+ in 5 straight since Kobe in 2007, Knicks tie their alltime franchise record with 20 threes made, it's a fun time to be a Knicks fan*.
*while always remaining aware that the bottom can fall out at any second, because it usually does. Kenyon Martin looked like he got hurt badly tonight, but it seems to just be a sprained ankle. NY has an insane list of injured big men right now: Chandler, Amar'e, Martin, Camby, Sheed, even Kurt Thomas, and they're going to need a couple of those to win a playoff series, even with the way Melo/JR are playing.
*while always remaining aware that the bottom can fall out at any second, because it usually does. Kenyon Martin looked like he got hurt badly tonight, but it seems to just be a sprained ankle. NY has an insane list of injured big men right now: Chandler, Amar'e, Martin, Camby, Sheed, even Kurt Thomas, and they're going to need a couple of those to win a playoff series, even with the way Melo/JR are playing.