Jacksonity......or the Knick thread

Rocco Graziosa

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Two years clearing the deck for Lebron and nothing. Where the fuck do they go from here? The max deal for Stoudemire is nice.......I guess.

I root for the Knicks because I have fallen in love with Clyde Frasire and enjoy watching their games but at first glace they seem totally fucked right now.

What do the Knicks do NOW?
 

RedOctober3829

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QUOTE (Rocco Graziosa @ Jul 8 2010, 11:11 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=3066917
Two years clearing the deck for Lebron and nothing. Where the fuck do they go from here? The max deal for Stoudemire is nice.......I guess.

I root for the Knicks because I have fallen in love with Clyde Frasire and enjoy watching their games but at first glace they seem totally fucked right now.

What do the Knicks do NOW?


They traded Lee for Anthony Randolph and Ronny Turiaf.
 

Rocco Graziosa

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QUOTE (RedOctober3829 @ Jul 8 2010, 11:14 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=3066923
They traded Lee for Anthony Randolph and Ronny Turiaf.


Pop the champagne. I would rather have David Lee at 5/80 than Stoudemire at 5/100.

points/rebounds/assists/steals/blocks

Lee: 20.2/11.7/3.6/1.0/0.5, .545 shooting, .812 free throws

Amare: 23.1/8.9/1.0/0.6/1.0, .557 shooting, .771 free throws
 

SeanBerry

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I really like Rudolph so maybe I am biased but I thought that was a nice group of complimentry guys to go with Amare and Gallinari. Plus they lose the Curry contract next year and will make a play for Carmelo.

I don't know...I don't think all is close to lost for Knicks fans. They aren't going to be instantly good like they would have been with Lebron but that team will be beyond fun to watch next year and should make a playoff push.

The Nets for all the billboards and rap nonsense are the real losers.
 

mahky bellhorn

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David Lee is 6/80

As of now, Anthony Randolph is nothing more than a PF version of Gerald Green. He has potential, but I'm not sold that he will ever amount to anything.
 

wutang112878

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QUOTE (BigSoxFan @ Jul 8 2010, 11:41 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=3066981
You'd rather have Lee at 5/80 than Stoudemire at 5/100 and Anthony Randolph? I think Randolph will flourish in the D'Antoni system.


Is he going to play with Amare? Neither of them are physical enough to play the 5. And if Randolph realizes his potential what do you do with Amare?

The Knicks tanked a few years and came up with just Amare so far, that couldnt or shouldnt have been plan A, B or C.
 

jon abbey

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Thanks, that sucked. The people of NY deserved him, the organization most certainly did not.

Anyway, they're probably about a .500 team right now, but at least they're building up a nice group of young, freaky athletes and should be pretty entertaining. Amare is the old man at 28, Gallo-22, Randolph-21, Chandler-23, Douglas-24, Bill Walker-23 and Azubuike and Turiaf are OK bench players at 27 each. They still should be about $14M under the cap, which they should probably hold onto for flexibility and stay away from the Millers and Feltons of the world. They're desperately in need of a real PG (any of the top 50 in the league will do), but that's been true since probably Derek Harper, and even he was only around for the end of his career.

Also, Dolan should fire Walsh and hire Kevin Pritchard ASAP, not that I'm holding my breath.
 

jon abbey

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QUOTE (wutang112878 @ Jul 8 2010, 11:53 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=3067007
Neither of them are physical enough to play the 5.


Boston fans are used to seeing Perkins, but there are so few real centers in the league now that can punish undersized guys playing out of position. D-Lee played C all last year, I'm pretty sure both Amare and Randolph would be major improvements on the defensive end there (I think it was Hollinger who said Amare was bad defensively, but looked like Bill Russell compared to Lee). I also am very curious to see if Amare's D improves with a better defensive PG than Nash.
 

mahky bellhorn

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QUOTE (jon abbey @ Jul 9 2010, 12:00 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=3067031
Boston fans are used to seeing Perkins, but there are so few real centers in the league now that can punish undersized guys playing out of position. D-Lee played C all last year, I'm pretty sure both Amare and Randolph would be major improvements on the defensive end there (I think it was Hollinger who said Amare was bad defensively, but looked like Bill Russell compared to Lee). I also am very curious to see if Amare's D improves with a better defensive PG than Nash.


Agreed, this isn't something to become overly concerned about until you're trying to contend and have to worry about going through the Dwight Howards and Bynum/Gasols of the world.

Just put the talent you have out there, see how it works, and move from there.
 

bbc23

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QUOTE (BigSoxFan @ Jul 8 2010, 08:41 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=3066981
You'd rather have Lee at 5/80 than Stoudemire at 5/100 and Anthony Randolph? I think Randolph will flourish in the D'Antoni system.

and thats the way you have to look at it
Would you rather have:
Lee at 6/80

Or:
Amare at 5/100
Anthony Randolph
Ronny Turiaf
Kellena Azubuike

and considering how much roster filling the Knicks needed to do this was a great deal
 

Rough Carrigan

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QUOTE (jon abbey @ Jul 8 2010, 11:57 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=3067020
Thanks, that sucked. The people of NY deserved him, the organization most certainly did not.

Anyway, they're probably about a .500 team right now, but at least they're building up a nice group of young, freaky athletes and should be pretty entertaining. Amare is the old man at 28, Gallo-22, Randolph-21, Chandler-23, Douglas-24, Bill Walker-23 and Azubuike and Turiaf are OK bench players at 27 each. They still should be about $14M under the cap, which they should probably hold onto for flexibility and stay away from the Millers and Feltons of the world. They're desperately in need of a real PG (any of the top 50 in the league will do), but that's been true since probably Derek Harper, and even he was only around for the end of his career.

Also, Dolan should fire Walsh and hire Kevin Pritchard ASAP, not that I'm holding my breath.

Uh . . no.
The people of ny apparently need a big serving of humble pie, to judge from the way the ny newspapers act as though every other team should just be a feeder stream for the yankees. I heard Bob Ryan on 98.5 FM a couple days ago and he was laughing at the entitlement attitude coming out of new york. "He MUST come here. We're New York!!"

The people of new york really need to get over themselves. Shouldn't destroying the economy of the country through the actions of the finance industry have sufficed as a show of importance?
 

jon abbey

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QUOTE (Rough Carrigan @ Jul 9 2010, 12:26 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=3067084
Shouldn't destroying the economy of the country through the actions of the finance industry have sufficed as a show of importance?


I'm right there with you on this, but on the flip side, we're also the major bomb target.

IMO the people of NY deserve a franchise basketball player at some point in my adult life, even Ewing was always outclassed by Jordan and Hakeem, that was all I was saying. Celtics fans are spoiled as much as Yankee fans.
 

Meff Nelton

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I agree with the sentiment that for the most part, Knick fans have been exceptionally loyal in measure to how atrocious they've been as well as the fact that they haven't won a title for several generations.

New Yorkers don't generally deserve a great basketball team, Knick fans do.

Oh, and sit on at least one max contract until you find somebody worth giving it to.
 

BroCash

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Donnie Walsh's contract is up this summer, so there is a good chance they go after Pritchard. Then again, Dolan could always bring back Isaiah Thomas.....
 

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QUOTE (BroCash @ Jul 9 2010, 09:34 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=3067394
Donnie Walsh's contract is up this summer, so there is a good chance they go after Pritchard. Then again, Dolan could always bring back Isaiah Thomas.....

It has begun.

Isaiah is on the case

QUOTE
In a bizarre twist to what has been a surreal eight days in the recruitment of James, the Knicks out-sourced the job of selling James on New York to a former president who was fired two years ago following a sexual harassment trial.
 

86spike

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QUOTE (SeanBerry @ Jul 8 2010, 11:22 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=3066933
The Nets for all the billboards and rap nonsense are the real losers.



sure they are

The Nets have a 3 year plan. The Lebron Sweepstakes was always a super low-percentage sideshow for NJ but they had to play the game. Now they got the most likely result (no Lebron) and can get back to the long term plan.

They've already completed phase one of the plan, which is "do not give max-sized contracts to sub-elite players like Boozer, Lee, Johnson, Amare unless if means it lands you Lebron or Wade".

Now phase two is to conserve a nice chunk of cap space, consider trades for impact talent (using their well of "potential" young players like Williams, Lee, etc.) and if nothing makes sense, spend a year letting that youth grow.

The Nets should be looking at OKC as a model. The East Coast dominance can come down the road when Wade or Lebron is missing half a season with a knee issue.
 

mahky bellhorn

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Now the word is the Donnie Walsh might retire, and Kevin Pritchard is a possible replacement.

Every dark cloud has a silver lining.
 

Grin&MartyBarret

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QUOTE (mahky bellhorn @ Jul 8 2010, 11:51 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=3067004
David Lee is 6/80

As of now, Anthony Randolph is nothing more than a PF version of Gerald Green. He has potential, but I'm not sold that he will ever amount to anything.


For a guy who did nothing in the NBA, Gerald Green's name gets thrown around her way too frequently. Randolph is 21, and already has a year of averaging 11.6 ppg, 6.5 rpg, and 1.5 bpg in 22 minutes behind him. That's 18.5, 10.3, and 2.5 over 36 minutes. He's also a member of the extended team USA roster.

Gerald Green has a career average of 7.5 ppg, 2 rpg, and 0.2 bpg. I get that the basis of the comparison was that both were drafted as high ceiling, high risk guys, but Randolph has taken much, much more significant strides in far less time than Green ever did. Not to mention, he's 6'10 and can do this.
 

mahky bellhorn

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You're right that the G-Money callout is rather harsh, but Randolph's totals were bloated by an up tempo system that sacrificed everything defense in favor of offense. He could go in a variety of directions from here, but I think people have a bit too much of a hardon for his upside given his lack of polish and fundamentals. He's only gonna be 21, but he did little to help a really crummy team (GS was -4.7 w/ him on court vs. -3.3 off) and has a long way to go before he becomes a quality NBA player.
 

Grin&MartyBarret

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Maybe so, but since 9:15 last night, the Knicks are in the process of building for the future and are short a handful of draftpicks. Trading David Lee for a couple of high upside guys who have very good numbers per 36 minutes isn't a bad gamble to take, particularly a guy like Randolph who has shown flashes of dominance and significant growth (28.whatever ppg in the summer league, good production in 22 minutes last year) in two years. If Randolph had stayed in school, he'd have been a top 5 pick this year.

This was exactly the type of move the Knicks needed to make. Frankly, it reminds me a lot of another deal Donnie Walsh made when he traded for Jermaine O'Neal between his age 21-22 seasons.
 

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QUOTE (jon abbey @ Jul 9 2010, 06:33 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=3068377
Knicks supposedly sign Raymond Felton, the rumor I saw was 4 years/$28M:

http://offthedribble.blogs.nytimes.com/201...o-in-on-felton/


Not a terrible signing. I thought that Ridnour would probably offer a better value, but Felton's a better player. I'm not crazy about him, but he represents an upgrade over Duhon/Rodriguez. I'd imagine this means Sergio is gone, and Felton and Douglas will be splitting the minutes.
 

jon abbey

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Felton
Chandler
Gallinari
Randolph
Amare

Douglas
Walker
Azubuike
Turiaf

Should be an entertaining, young, tall, athletic team, with Amare the oldest of those nine at 28. How good they'll be depends on Gallinari and Randolph's development. Also, most of those guys are good defensive players, FWIW.
 

A Bartlett Giamatti

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QUOTE (jon abbey @ Jul 9 2010, 08:11 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=3068642
Felton
Chandler
Gallinari
Randolph
Amare

Douglas
Walker
Azubuike
Turiaf

Should be an entertaining, young, tall, athletic team, with Amare the oldest of those nine at 28. How good they'll be depends on Gallinari and Randolph's development. Also, most of those guys are good defensive players, FWIW.

I can't argue for a second with what they've done since 9:30 last night. When you have no picks and some cap room, taking a shot on Felton and Randolph makes sense. Felton's numbers will improve, obviously, moving from Brown to D'Antoni. Presumably his effectiveness improves too playing in a friendlier system. And giving up on Randolph, at 21 and in a rookie contract, is asinine for GS. Resigning Lee would've been ridiculous, and turning him into a guy with that level of talent is a huge win. Feels like one of those deals that we'll look back on in a couple of years and just laugh.
 

jon abbey

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Yep, a good way to look at Randolph is as NY's lottery pick this year.
 

ishmael

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If Carmelo re-signs in Denver, who is the next best FA out there in 2011? I know the Knicks could have cap space again next year b/c Curry is expiring, but is there anywhere to spend it???

Hopefully they convinced Felton to sign a declining value contract (10-8-6-4), since it gives them more space in the future and makes him a more tradeable asset...
 

Lazy vs Crazy

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Knicks Prez Donnie Walsh told me today that Isiah Thomas will be among Knicks GM candidates if they make a hire


Please let this happen. It will be the best thing.
 

SemperFidelisSox

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Pritchard interviewed for the Nets job too, so this could be a lose-lose for Knicks fans if they pass on him and give Isiah another chance. Thomas comes back to fuck everything up again, and Pritchard goes to the rival Nets.
 

mahky bellhorn

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It would be sweet if they brought him back and in the press conference he announces that he just extended Eddy Curry to a 5/30 deal.
 

jon abbey

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I will say that Isiah is really good at drafting, better than Walsh and most other GMs, and I wished they kept him around to make draft selections.

But if they hired him as a GM again, that would make it much easier for me to finally stop caring about this Dolan-cursed franchise.
 

mauf

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Anyone know if the Knicks got insurance on Amare's knee? We have no idea what's the long-term effects on microfracture surgery are for an NBA player. Dolan won't go broke if Amare is uninsured, but insurance would at least make him a useful trade chip if his career is cut short. Of course, no insurance will protect you if Amare's knee hampers him just enough to render him a flat-footed, slower version of himself.

Over the years, a lot of teams have had great, young cores-- the Mavericks in the mid-90s to the Bulls in the early 00s come to mind. Those two teams didn't work out so well, and I don't recall any other ultra-young teams making the leap. OKC is trying to make it work; whether they do will depend on whether Kevin Durant becomes a franchise player, or tops out as a latter-day Mark Aguirre or World B. Free. The Knicks don't have a potential franchise player like Durant, and unless you think more of 'Melo than I do, they don't figure to get one. They didn't get LeBron, they didn't get lucky in the draft lottery. Nothing wrong with Donnie Walsh's plan-- it just didn't work. Winning in the NBA takes a lot of luck-- look at what Jerry West's tenure in Memphis.
 

jon abbey

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QUOTE (maufman @ Jul 10 2010, 07:14 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=3069687
Anyone know if the Knicks got insurance on Amare's knee? We have no idea what's the long-term effects on microfracture surgery are for an NBA player. Dolan won't go broke if Amare is uninsured, but insurance would at least make him a useful trade chip if his career is cut short. Of course, no insurance will protect you if Amare's knee hampers him just enough to render him a flat-footed, slower version of himself.


Yeah, no insurance, pretty sure that was why he agreed so quickly.

QUOTE
Over the years, a lot of teams have had great, young cores-- the Mavericks in the mid-90s to the Bulls in the early 00s come to mind. Those two teams didn't work out so well, and I don't recall any other ultra-young teams making the leap. OKC is trying to make it work; whether they do will depend on whether Kevin Durant becomes a franchise player, or tops out as a latter-day Mark Aguirre or World B. Free. The Knicks don't have a potential franchise player like Durant, and unless you think more of 'Melo than I do, they don't figure to get one. They didn't get LeBron, they didn't get lucky in the draft lottery. Nothing wrong with Donnie Walsh's plan-- it just didn't work. Winning in the NBA takes a lot of luck-- look at what Jerry West's tenure in Memphis.


Donnie is at fault for pretty bad drafting in his two years IMO, mostly in 2009. We've been into it in depth on Knickerblogger, but for him to not take a PG at 8 in 2009 was a crime against the city. NY hasn't had a top 20 PG (top 20!) in decades and to not pick one of Brandon Jennings, Jrue Holiday, Ty Lawson, Darren Collison at #8, in favor of Jordan Fucking Hill was a huge mistake. And then to compound that by taking Toney Douglas at #29 (who is promising, but seemingly more of an undersized two) when man among men DeJuan Blair was still out there. Rebounding is the skill that translates best to the pros, Donnie, knee cartilage or no knee cartilage. Picking Hill and Douglas over any of those PGs (Lawson was my choice) and Blair really hurt the team.

Also, not anyone's fault really, but NY just missed on Russell Westbrook and Steph Curry, both of whom I think they would have taken. Gallinari was the best guy on the board in 2008, and I really do think he has All-Star potential (he has supposedly been immersed in Bird tapes all offseason), but I blame Walsh a little for Westbrook jumping up at the last minute. When he was interviewed that night just before the draft, he had the smuggest look on his face and it was clear from the interview that he was certain Westbrook would be a Knick. Ugh.
 

jon abbey

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So the good news is that the Felton deal is only 2 years guaranteed, $15.8M. The very odd news out of the blue is this, not quite sure it's confirmed yet:

"Russian center Timofey Mozgov will sign a three year, 9.7 million dollar contract with the New York Knicks."
 

mahky bellhorn

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He's the #2 international prospect at DX- other than that I have no idea who the hell he is or what sort of potential he has. But it has to be better than paying Johan Petro 3/10.

I gotta say, once you move past LeBron, the Knicks aren't having such a bad offseason. I'd say that adding Felton, Randolph, Turiaf, Azuibuke, and Tina Fey beats paying Joe Johnson 5/100...it definitely beats paying Joe Johnson 6/124.
 

RedOctober3829

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QUOTE
It was a wedding toast heard from Broadway to Bourbon Street.

During Carmelo Anthony's wedding Saturday night at Cipriani's on 42nd Street, Chris Paul, the superstar New Orleans point guard, predicted a future Knicks Dream Team.

Take that, LeCon.

According to a person who spoke with wedding attendee Amar'e Stoudemire, Paul made the reference during a speech of a potential union of himself, Stoudemire and Anthony, saying, "We'll form our own Big 3," Paul allegedly said.


Link

Was that the bubbly talking or is this going to happen?
 

jon abbey

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QUOTE (RedOctober3829 @ Jul 12 2010, 02:33 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=3071557
Was that the bubbly talking or is this going to happen?


Walsh is keeping cap space open, the Felton deal is 2 years guaranteed (and he can be traded as of this December 15), and the Mozgov deal is only 1 year guaranteed. The longer Carmelo goes without signing the 3 year/$65M extension on the table, the more likely it is, although Denver has said that the extension offer has no time limit on it from their perspective.
 

dylanmarsh

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QUOTE (maufman @ Jul 10 2010, 04:14 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=3069687
Anyone know if the Knicks got insurance on Amare's knee? We have no idea what's the long-term effects on microfracture surgery are for an NBA player. Dolan won't go broke if Amare is uninsured, but insurance would at least make him a useful trade chip if his career is cut short. Of course, no insurance will protect you if Amare's knee hampers him just enough to render him a flat-footed, slower version of himself.


Supposedly the Suns weren't willing to guarantee the last two years because they couldn't obtain insurance. The Suns and Knicks offered the same amount of money but, of course, the Knicks guaranteed all five years.
 

A Bartlett Giamatti

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The Knicks have max room at the end of this year, plus enough pieces in place and attractive contracts to make a deal. So in the dream scenario, you could look at adding one of Carmelo/Paul in a deal and then the other as a FA.

I'd think that something along the lines of Felton, Curry's Exp deal, Chandler, a first and Randolph or Gallinari would get you Paul or certainly Parker. If there'd be any way to keep Randolph and Gallo out of the deal, that would be amazing.

If we look at the 2011-2012 Knicks this way, then yes, all the pain has been worth it. This would be a monster, fun team.

Paul
Carmelo
Gallinari
Randolph
Amare

Azubuike
Giant Russian Tina Fey (GRTF)
Walker
Toney Douglas
Assorted 2nd round picks

I told a Knicks season ticket rep today that I was not going to purchase the tickets I was interested in because of the Isaiah noise. If something rises to the level that Walsh has to deny it, I'm sure that there's fire causing that smoke. And of course asked her to pass it up the chain.
 

Grin&MartyBarret

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Felton
Chandler
Gallinari
Randolph
Amare

Douglas
Walker
Azubuike
Turiaf

Should be an entertaining, young, tall, athletic team, with Amare the oldest of those nine at 28. How good they'll be depends on Gallinari and Randolph's development. Also, most of those guys are good defensive players, FWIW.
Not hugely surprising, but during the summer league game D'Antoni was interviewed and said that barring any trades, all three of Fields, Rautins, and Jordan will make the team.
 

jon abbey

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Interesting Carmelo development:

==========================

Carmelo Anthony is not expected to sign an extension with the Nuggets this summer, a source tells Hoopsworld's Alex Kennedy.

The Nuggets were hoping that Melo would sign a three-year, $65 million extension before this season. But for now, it looks like he's going to test the market next season, tossing concerns about a potential lockout to the side. There have already been rumors that Amare Stoudemire is trying to organize his own "Big 3" in New York, made up of himself, Anthony and Tony Parker.

http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/player_main.aspx?sport=NBA&hl=138339&id=929
 

jon abbey

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This is pretty depressing:

http://www.theknicksblog.com/2010/08/04/sources-lebrons-team-wanted-new-york/
 

Rocco Graziosa

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This is pretty depressing:

http://www.theknicksblog.com/2010/08/04/sources-lebrons-team-wanted-new-york/

Totally. And now Knick fans are forced to spend yet another year waiting to see if a superstar decides to come play at MSG. From dreaming of LeCon to Anthony...........what a terrible way to spend your energies as a fan.
 

jon abbey

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Totally. And now Knick fans are forced to spend yet another year waiting to see if a superstar decides to come play at MSG. From dreaming of LeCon to Anthony...........what a terrible way to spend your energies as a fan.
They'll be a lot more fun to watch this year, even if they're a borderline playoff team at best. I'm especially excited to see Randolph night in and night out.
 

ElUno20

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They'll be fun to watch but at PG I don't know if Felton is a consistent enough distributor to get that offense going. He can fill it up though.
 

TomRicardo

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Totally. And now Knick fans are forced to spend yet another year waiting to see if a superstar decides to come play at MSG. From dreaming of LeCon to Anthony...........what a terrible way to spend your energies as a fan.
Who does Dolan care? MSG will still sell out. I have to say, it is a lot of fun watching a ball game there even if you aren't a Knicks fan.