If we're sellers, who do we sell?

[geoduck no quahog]

I'm banking most of my optimism on:

Sox picking up one really good and one pretty good pitcher from the flush free agent market, opening up some possible bullpen shifts; and Rodriguez turning Felixian.

Swiquez, Bogaerts, Betts and Bradillo having good years.

Hanley being a monster and Sandoval maintaining his career stats.

But mostly the pitching.

Edit: and the rest of the teams getting old and stupid

 

[NDame616]

I'm banking most of my optimism on:

Sox picking up one really good and one pretty good pitcher from the flush free agent market, opening up some possible bullpen shifts; and Rodriguez turning Felixian.

Swiquez, Bogaerts, Betts and Bradillo having good years.

Hanley being a monster and Sandoval maintaining his career stats.

But mostly the pitching.

Edit: and the rest of the teams getting old and stupid

Unlike the Red Sox, who are getting younger and have only made smart moves?

 

[Rasputin]

On what grounds would someone be "extremely optimistic" about 2016? There doesn't appear to be much in the way of immediate help in the minors. There aren't many players who are injured this year that we should expect to be of huge importance next year.

 
Is this a joke?
 
There doesn't appear to be much in the way of immediate help in the minors except, you know, Jackie Bradley, Jr., Brian Johnson, Henry Owens, Deven Marrero, Pat Light, Dalier Hinojosa, Jonathan Aro, Zeke Spruill, Heath Hembree, Matt Barnes, and who knows, maybe  even Allen Craig, Steven Wright, and Rusney Castillo.
 
There aren't many players who are injured this year that we should expect to be of huge importance next year except, you know, the starting catcher. Or you know, the other starting catcher who obviously isn't going to be any help because there's nobody in the minors to help and he can't possibly be making the transition to the majors ahead of schedule because we have two goddamn catchers on the disabled list.
 
Plus, of course, we can't possibly expect any improvement from the guy whose having his worst year in the last six. We're not going to get anything out of the good young starter who's only made five starts, the CFer and SS who are already pretty good and are only 22 aren't remotely going to improve even though that's exactly what you expect of players of their caliber at their age.
 
Here's the thing, offensively, the Sox don't need to add any huge pieces. They just need to make sure there aren't any huge holes in the lineup. Most notably, that means they can't be grossly deficient in right field and at first base. There are two in house candidates for the outfield job already in AAA with Manuel Margot just promoted to Portland. There's at least some chance that Allen Craig is the guy at first and if he's not, well, there are quite a few free agent first basemen who aren't going to command big deals.and the Sox still have a lot of valuable trade pieces.
 
I could ramble on about the pitching too, but you get the point. You want to be a pessimist, fine, but pretending that optimism about next year is unthinkable is just woefully ignorant.

 

[Red(s)HawksFan]

 
6 of those guys you mention profile as middle relievers, at best. One of them is 25 year old with a K rate under 5. Marrero has a 650 OPS and is whiffing in 25% of his plate appearances. Craig seems like a lost cause....at best, he's not somewhat whose presence on the roster should make someone feel "extremely optimistic" about the next year. Johnson is intriguing, Owens has some work to do but could be as well. Nevertheless, though, these guys are the kinds of players that every organization has in their system. 
 
If the Sox can find a 1b & rf, see growth from the young players who look really good, see the starters all turn things around, find a few bullpen arms, etc...yeah they could be good. That's why I said I could understand being hopeful.
 
But every year there are threads about how the next year (or the year after) is the one where things are really going to come together. The future always looks bright.

 
And if it didn't, or more accurately, if we didn't view it that way, what would be the point of being a fan?  I don't mean that to sound like people pessimistic aren't "real fans" but seriously, if one feels the future was bleak and hopeless, what's the point of following the team?  Being at least a bit optimistic for the future no matter the present situation is what keeps most fans involved, no?
 
Is there really something wrong with the threads focused on next year (or the year after) skewing toward the optimistic?

 

[AB in DC]

The two biggest black holes on the team (1B and RF) involve two players who are earning a combined $29 million in salary this year, and who will not be on the roster next year.  Just find a way to get an average return-on-investment for that $29 million and that will be a huge improvement.
 
On top of that, there are way more young players likely to improve (Betts, Bogaerts, Swihart, EdRo) than old players likely to decline (really just Ortiz and Uehara)
 
Plus, they've got guys like Castillo, JBJ, Owens, BJohnson in Rhode Island who seem ready to take the next step.  You gotta figure at least one of the four will be a significant contributor in 2016.
 
 
So no, I would not being "selling" anyone on the roster except for expiring contracts, and maybe Uehara, unless we'll be seeing major league talent coming back.

 

[jscola85]

The problem is that there aren't many impending free agents who can realistically fill the void at 1B/RF.  At 1B, you've got Chris Davis and if you want to be adventurous with the glove, Edwin Encarnacion.  Maybe Alex Gordon declines his player option and is willing to move to RF but I doubt it on either count.  Justin Upton cannot play RF at Fenway.  So if we want to fill the RF hole we would need to back up a Brink's truck to Jason Heyward, which I suspect will draw ire from the fans when he produces a .750 OPS - will be Porcello all over again with fans, but 2x the committed dollars most likely.
 
There's nobody in AAA or even AA who can fill those holes either, so the alternative is a trade, which will either sap the minor league depth this team needs long-term or cost the team major league pieces.
 
Some problems go away if you can somehow convince Papi to retire or move on to another team - that will move Hanley to DH and would free the team up to pursue someone like Justin Upton in LF.
 
Not to mention that while we are freeing up $29M, the team will almost certainly need to spend money to help fill holes in the pitching staff, which is a far bigger problem frankly than the lineup these days.  With Cueto/Zimmermann/Price on the FA market, there's also a lot more talent on the pitching side to choose from.

 

[Red(s)HawksFan]

The problem is that there aren't many impending free agents who can realistically fill the void at 1B/RF.  At 1B, you've got Chris Davis and if you want to be adventurous with the glove, Edwin Encarnacion.  Maybe Alex Gordon declines his player option and is willing to move to RF but I doubt it on either count.  Justin Upton cannot play RF at Fenway.  So if we want to fill the RF hole we would need to back up a Brink's truck to Jason Heyward, which I suspect will draw ire from the fans when he produces a .750 OPS - will be Porcello all over again with fans, but 2x the committed dollars most likely.
 
There's nobody in AAA or even AA who can fill those holes either, so the alternative is a trade, which will either sap the minor league depth this team needs long-term or cost the team major league pieces.
 
Some problems go away if you can somehow convince Papi to retire or move on to another team - that will move Hanley to DH and would free the team up to pursue someone like Justin Upton in LF.
 
Not to mention that while we are freeing up $29M, the team will almost certainly need to spend money to help fill holes in the pitching staff, which is a far bigger problem frankly than the lineup these days.  With Cueto/Zimmermann/Price on the FA market, there's also a lot more talent on the pitching side to choose from.

 
Beg to differ on the bolded part, at least as far as right field is concerned.  Castillo is in Pawtucket now and Bradley Jr has been there most of the year.  Both of those players could well be perfectly viable options in RF in 2016, either individually or as a platoon.  Certainly no need to go out and spend big on the free agent market just because they may have some free cash to do so.
 
And frankly, I can't see how Ortiz sticking around is a problem as long as he's productive.  Even with the defensive issues, the team is more likely better off with a productive Ortiz at DH and Hanley in LF than they are with Hanley at DH and player X in LF.

 

[Savin Hillbilly]

The problem is that there aren't many impending free agents who can realistically fill the void at 1B/RF.  At 1B, you've got Chris Davis and if you want to be adventurous with the glove, Edwin Encarnacion.  Maybe Alex Gordon declines his player option and is willing to move to RF but I doubt it on either count.  Justin Upton cannot play RF at Fenway.  So if we want to fill the RF hole we would need to back up a Brink's truck to Jason Heyward, which I suspect will draw ire from the fans when he produces a .750 OPS - will be Porcello all over again with fans, but 2x the committed dollars most likely. choose from.

 
Why do you think Gordon won't decline his player option? It's for chump change, and unless he gets hurt or goes seriously south between now and October he'll be coming off a pretty fine year. At age 31, I would think he'll want to cash in for his last substantial contract now, not roll the dice and see what happens in another year.
 
I think Gordon would be an intriguing sign not to put in RF but at 1B. He came up as a 3B so it should be an even smoother transition than for many OF's who make it. And he's a good enough athlete that he should play 1B very well. He's not quite a prototypical 1B bat, but he'd pull his weight there. Whether he'll want to do that is another question, of course.

 

[Papelbon's Poutine]

The Blue Jays have a club option for $10M on Encarnacion. He's not in the conversation of FA 1B for 2016.

 

[jscola85]

 
Why do you think Gordon won't decline his player option? It's for chump change, and unless he gets hurt or goes seriously south between now and October he'll be coming off a pretty fine year. At age 31, I would think he'll want to cash in for his last substantial contract now, not roll the dice and see what happens in another year.
 
I think Gordon would be an intriguing sign not to put in RF but at 1B. He came up as a 3B so it should be an even smoother transition than for many OF's who make it. And he's a good enough athlete that he should play 1B very well. He's not quite a prototypical 1B bat, but he'd pull his weight there. Whether he'll want to do that is another question, of course.

 


 
Why do you think Gordon won't decline his player option? It's for chump change, and unless he gets hurt or goes seriously south between now and October he'll be coming off a pretty fine year. At age 31, I would think he'll want to cash in for his last substantial contract now, not roll the dice and see what happens in another year.
 
I think Gordon would be an intriguing sign not to put in RF but at 1B. He came up as a 3B so it should be an even smoother transition than for many OF's who make it. And he's a good enough athlete that he should play 1B very well. He's not quite a prototypical 1B bat, but he'd pull his weight there. Whether he'll want to do that is another question, of course.

I suspect he will just come to an extension before it gets to him needing to make a decision on the option.  Maybe I am wrong but he seems like a guy who will try to be a "Royal for life" much like Pedroia with the Red Sox.
 
As for Encarnacion, appreciate that update - MLBTradeRumors didn't denote that, so that removes the only even semi-interesting name at 1B.

 

[Papelbon's Poutine]

Use Cots for contracts. Far more reliable, exhaustive and accurate.

 

[grimshaw]

 


 
Why do you think Gordon won't decline his player option? It's for chump change, and unless he gets hurt or goes seriously south between now and October he'll be coming off a pretty fine year. At age 31, I would think he'll want to cash in for his last substantial contract now, not roll the dice and see what happens in another year.
 
I think Gordon would be an intriguing sign not to put in RF but at 1B. He came up as a 3B so it should be an even smoother transition than for many OF's who make it. And he's a good enough athlete that he should play 1B very well. He's not quite a prototypical 1B bat, but he'd pull his weight there. Whether he'll want to do that is another question, of course.

I suspect he will just come to an extension before it gets to him needing to make a decision on the option.  Maybe I am wrong but he seems like a guy who will try to be a "Royal for life" much like Pedroia with the Red Sox.
 
As for Encarnacion, appreciate that update - MLBTradeRumors didn't denote that, so that removes the only even semi-interesting name at 1B.

Gordon is one of the top defensive OF in baseball.  It would be really silly to sign him to play 1B.

 

[Buzzkill Pauley]

Gordon is one of the top defensive OF in baseball.  It would be really silly to sign him to play 1B.

And it would be ludicrous to sign him for 1b while continuing to play Hanley in LF.

 

[FanSinceBoggs]

I was watching the Angels versus Yankees.  CJ Cron looks like he is having all kinds of problems, offensively and defensively.  The Angels are having problems scoring runs.  They are a team that could use a DH, an extra bat in the lineup.  They might prefer a LHB, but Hanley could be a fit in the DH spot for the Angels.  The Angels don't have many impressive prospects, but the idea here is to trade Hanley for a bag of balls and hope the Angels are willing to pick up a sizeable portion of the remaining contract (they might not be willing to do that, of course).  If they could agree on the economics, this is one place for the Red Sox to turn in order to rid themselves of a player who should be a full time DH, a spot the Red Sox do not have open (and I presume Ortiz is returning next season). 

 

[Mighty Joe Young]

Bump

Seems appropriate after a disastrous post ASG four game series in Anahem whereupon the offense scored one run.

So who goes?

One would think that the primary focus should be on clearing out the drek and enabling substantial playing time for the rest of the year for Bradley, Swihart, Johnson and hopefully Owens. Not sure what the plan is for Castillo.

The DFA of Leon was the obvious first step. I would think next to go would be Victorino and Napoli. I think Nava's gone as well. Doesn't really matter if talent comes back .. Merely clearing payroll would be a gain.

The only chips that you might want to deal that could bring back something of value would be Tazawa or Koji.

Miley has value as well but he seems like a good guy to keep going forward as the contract is reasonable.

 

[Papelbon's Poutine]

Anyone over 25 yo, not named Ortiz, Holt or Pedroia. As long as it doesn't require eating salary, I'm fine with Pablo or Hanley but I think there's zero chance of that being the case and I doubt they're willing to say those are bad deals so short into to them. Otherwise blow it up.

 

[Plympton91]

Do you want Cherington and Allen Baird and the same crew that brought back Craig, Kelly, and ultimately Porcello making the decisions at the deadline again?

Do you want Farrell to be the guy trying to inboard all that young talent?

I think the first thing to sell is the management group. Bring back Mike Port or something. Make Arnie Beyeler the interim manager again. This is awful.

 

[Savin Hillbilly]

The DFA of Leon was the obvious first step. I would think next to go would be Victorino and Napoli. I think Nava's gone as well. Doesn't really matter if talent comes back .. Merely clearing payroll would be a gain.

 
What's the point of "clearing payroll" that isn't going to be here next year anyway? That's payroll that'll clear itself. In the very unlikely event you can get anything for any of those three guys, do it, but otherwise, might as well let the first two play out the string and just non-tender Nava this winter.

 

[Hank Scorpio]

I move Koji and Taz, if they can bring back good prospects or an everyday player of use in 2016. All the other bullpen arms are expendable, and I'd take back anything of remote interest for any of them.
 
Holt, I listen on - but expect more than I think most teams are willing to pay.
 
Miley can be shopped, but just to see if anyone is willing to overpay.
 
I give away Porcello, Sandoval and Hanley to anyone willing to take on their contracts. Take what I can get for Victorino, try to find a taker for Napoli, otherwise I just DFA him and try to find a Mike Carp.
 
Really, I'm only especially interested in hanging on to Swihart, Pedroia, Bogaerts, Betts, Papi, Rodriguez, and a few of the minor leaguers.
 
Hanigan might be someone we can "sell high" on, if another team has a dire need. De Aza might get something back better than we gave up for him.

 

[Papelbon's Poutine]

 
What's the point of "clearing payroll" that isn't going to be here next year anyway? That's payroll that'll clear itself. In the very unlikely event you can get anything for any of those three guys, do it, but otherwise, might as well let the first two play out the string and just non-tender Nava this winter.

If you clear enough you can get under the tax line. The value of that is obviously up for debate.

 

[Sampo Gida]

Who?
 
Pedey
Koji
Tazawa
Oganda
Miley?
 
Pedey is untouchable as he is in icon territory, but thats about all that has value that could be traded (Papi is 10/5) and that would get you a return beyond the cost controlled young guys/prospects, and trading guys like Holt, E-Rod, Swihart, XB, Betts, etc makes no sense.   Hanley, Pablo, Porcello would require eating much salary to get anything.
 
Before this series I was in the buyers camp, but the players and manager look like they have packed it in so the FO may as well do the same. But the returns would likely be slim so doing nothing is probably the best option.   They should have some pity on the fans who have tickets for the rest of the season, and give them a chance to see a few more wins.  Yeah, doing nothing is best for all concerned.

 

[Sprowl]

I agree that Betts, Bogaerts, Edro, Swihart, Pedroia, Ortiz, Sandoval, Ramirez, Porcello and Miley are here to stay, at least for 2015. Either they are the future, they are icons, or they are sunk costs who will probably be better in 2016.
 
Napoli has no current value, and will get another 30 games of at-bats to generate something -- anything -- that makes him worthy of a waiver-wire deal. Victorino has only marginally more value. We'll see a lot of them, and then we'll see the backs of them forever. Here's hoping that three little birds fly off to a playoff team.
 
 
There are only a few names that have value on the trade market for 2015 competitors, and they are all relievers:
 
Tazawa, who is highly effective in relief, and still cheap at 2.25m. He will start getting expensive after another year, so perhaps this is might be his peak value for a GFIN contender.
 
Koji has plenty of value, but his price may discourage trading partners. Still, a playoff contender in desperate need of a closer has to like what Uehara has shown in 2015.
 
Layne might have value as a LOOGY, depending on contenders' needs.
 
Ogando has been a disappointment, but not a disaster: his velocity is intact and a contender might value his experience.
 
Masterson might have value if he shows well as a reliever, and the Red Sox subsidize him. With his price tag, he'll likely clear waivers.
 
 
There are a few more assets whose value depends on the kindness of strangers:
 
BrockHolt is unlikely to bring an offer that would outweigh his value to the Red Sox, but all it takes is one team to prove me wrong. Holt is 27, and like Pedroia and Betts, his best position is 2B.
 
Castillo can field, run, throw and hit for power, but it's not clear that he can fight off major league inside fastballs. If the Red Sox despair of him learning not to lean, maybe another GM will take a flyer.
 
Kelly can throw hard, but he's wild in the strike zone. If the Red Sox despair of him commanding his stuff, maybe another GM will take a flyer.
 
BrockHolt might be of use to a contender; Castillo and Kelly would be bets on 2016. I think all three will stick around for another year.

 

[HomeRunBaker]

Seems like there are 3 groups to sell......

1) Value Town - Koji, Tazawa, Hanigan. (Maybe you can include Miley but he's been so good the past few months I see him as a keeper). The goal obviously is to get an Andrew Miller-like return on a team in desperate need for one or more of this trio.

2) The Price We Pay - Panda, Porcello, Craig. (Some want to include Hanley, I see him as our DH moving forward and a very good one at that). How much salary will we be willing to eat and can we get something tangible in return for the first two?

3) Please Go Away - Victorino, Napoli, Breslow, and Craig (he deserves to be on both lists). Cover 85% of their salary for remainder of season but please just go away.

 

[alwyn96]

As with everything, I'd say it depends what the other teams are offering. Obviously you keep your young core guys and icons but at least listen on everyone else. A hot De Aza (with a fine playoff resume!) might interest whoever loses out on Gomez/Upton/Bruce/Zobrist/Cespedes (or whoever needs a 4th OF) to the tune of a Joe Gunkel-type player.

 

[MikeM]

If you clear enough you can get under the tax line. The value of that is obviously up for debate.

 
When i was doing the rough number crunching on this possibility a month back, most realistic scenarios i could think up involved moving Buchholz. Shame that ship has sailed (especially since i'm mostly expecting him to get shipped out before next spring anyway).
 
Player names i'd expect to hear as potential moving parts next week:
 
- Castillo and/or Bradley (since both their potential value is tied so heavily into playing CF, and Betts looks like he's sticking there)
- Uehara (year 1 of that deal is being wasted, and he does turn 41 next April)
- Hanigan
- Kelly
- De Aza
- Victorino
- Anybody else currently sitting in Pawtucket

 

[BosRedSox5]

Do you want Cherington and Allen Baird and the same crew that brought back Craig, Kelly, and ultimately Porcello making the decisions at the deadline again?

Do you want Farrell to be the guy trying to inboard all that young talent?

I think the first thing to sell is the management group. Bring back Mike Port or something. Make Arnie Beyeler the interim manager again. This is awful.

 
That hardly seems fair since Allen Craig is one of the most inexplicable cases of a hitter completely going cold in recent memory. He went from being a dependable 2+ WAR player who could play 3 positions to being a scrub for no reason. Kelly and Porcello seemes to have tons of upside when acquired as well. No one could have predicted they would both face plant. I'm not sure Ben is the man for the job, but those deadline deals seemed really good at the time and could easily have gone the other way for us. 

 

[dcmissle]

There were more than a few people wondering whether Craig could get it back when the trade was made; the pertinent thread bears that out.  Kelly had potential written all over him, but nobody was taking him to the bank; if he were bankable, he wouldn't have been dealt.  One can defend the Porcello acquisition all day long.  What one can not defend very plausibly is the contract extension, particularly from a risk adverse crew; that deal may prove a nightmare.
 
All this said, we're probably talking about selling second and third tier pieces this deadline, as I don't believe there will be suitors for Clay unless and until he proves himself reliable this year, which proof may come far too late if it comes at all.  I'm not sure what the downside is of letting incumbent management deal these pieces.  If you're talking about acquisitions that entail parting with kids, that is an entirely different story, but I doubt that happens.

 

[BosRedSox5]

One can defend the Porcello acquisition all day long.  What one can not defend very plausibly is the contract extension, particularly from a risk adverse crew; that deal may prove a nightmare.

 
Agreed. 

I loved getting Porcello for Cespedes... and I shook my head at the extension. What was Ben thinking? 

 

[SoxLegacy]

Would the Mets possibly bite on Sandoval? They are in the playoff hunt, have a gaping hole at third and have no guarantee that Wright returns from his spine problems ever. I have no idea about their finances or farm.

 

[pdub]

Victorino - I'd move him for anything. We have an OF glut and the team is going nowhere.
Uehara - He's still good but he's also 40. A good reliever doesn't mean as much when our foundation stinks. Sell "high".
 
Thankfully, even if we do nothing we're still okay. Victorino and Napoli are set to become free agents, should clear up some space and payroll. 

 

[johnnywayback]

 
That hardly seems fair since Allen Craig is one of the most inexplicable cases of a hitter completely going cold in recent memory. He went from being a dependable 2+ WAR player who could play 3 positions to being a scrub for no reason. Kelly and Porcello seemes to have tons of upside when acquired as well. No one could have predicted they would both face plant. I'm not sure Ben is the man for the job, but those deadline deals seemed really good at the time and could easily have gone the other way for us. 

 
No reason, other than a serious and lingering foot injury.  I was, to my chagrin, on board with betting on Craig's recovery and ability to regain his mechanics once recovered, but let's not pretend it wasn't a bet.

 

[jscola85]

Would the Mets possibly bite on Sandoval? They are in the playoff hunt, have a gaping hole at third and have no guarantee that Wright returns from his spine problems ever. I have no idea about their finances or farm.

 
The Mets are broke.  So unless the Sox want to eat a huge chunk of Sandoval's contract, that's a no-go.

 

[plucy]

The only way to move Sandoval is in a bad contract exchange. The "best" deal I can find is for Shields, who is having an awful time with HR's in SD.

 

[KillerBs]

Victorino - I'd move him for anything. We have an OF glut and the team is going nowhere.
Uehara - He's still good but he's also 40. A good reliever doesn't mean as much when our foundation stinks. Sell "high".
 
Thankfully, even if we do nothing we're still okay. Victorino and Napoli are set to become free agents, should clear up some space and payroll. 

I think this is right, with the slight amendment that we are obviously not getting anything of value for Victorino, so the real decision is whether to keep him (and Napoli) on the 25 man for sentimental reasons or to take a more self-interested approach and send them down the road now. 
 
I am not against sentimentality playing a role in these decisions: Pedroia cant be moved; Ortiz can DH for as long as he wants (which I trust wont be too long). Victorino and Napoli will have a proud place in Red Sox history until the day they die, but they are not at the level where we compromise the future an iota just to spare their feelings or because we want to watch them play out the string in a Sox uni. We don't owe Vic or Nap anything. 
 
Koji is a little trickier, but for the right deal (like a AAAA 1b or OF) I could see moving him. I would also be perfectly content to watch him inexplicably get guys out with that crap he throws up there for another year plus.

 

[nighthob]

The Mets are broke.  So unless the Sox want to eat a huge chunk of Sandoval's contract, that's a no-go.

Given that they're in New York, in a playoff race, and are in the bottom third of MLB payrolls how broke can they be?

 

[jscola85]

Given that they're in New York, in a playoff race, and are in the bottom third of MLB payrolls how broke can they be?

 
Ask Bernie Madoff.

 

[amfox1]

Given that they're in New York, in a playoff race, and are in the bottom third of MLB payrolls how broke can they be?

 
The Wilpons have significant financial issues and are trying to muddle through without losing control of their ownership of the Mets.

 

[EvilEmpire]

Given that they're in New York, in a playoff race, and are in the bottom third of MLB payrolls how broke can they be?

The Mets would be crazy to take him unsubsidized. He doesn't take care of his body and there is no DH for him to go to as his defense continues to deteriorate relative to his BMI.

 

[Pilgrim]

Sandoval will be on the team until Devers or, more likely, Moncada is ready and then they will eat the vast majority of his deal to make him go away. Hopefully he plays some decent baseball before then but it's doubtful.

 

[nighthob]

Ask Bernie Madoff.

Wilpon may have problems, Madoff wasn't one of them. Federal courts allowed him to recover paper losses from the victims fund (which is to say that his only losses were the paper gains he was never paid, he made back his principle).

 

[nighthob]

The Mets would be crazy to take him unsubsidized. He doesn't take care of his body and there is no DH for him to go to as his defense continues to deteriorate relative to his BMI.

Oh, I agree they'd look for some financial offset to bring the financial risk into line, and also Boston would want something for him given that he cost them a draft pick. I just don't think finances are part of the problem.

Sandoval will be on the team until Devers or, more likely, Moncada is ready and then they will eat the vast majority of his deal to make him go away. Hopefully he plays some decent baseball before then but it's doubtful.

This. Unless they think Brock Holt is a full time 3B, but that would only open the need for someone like Holt on the roster. I do think that Moncada will move up the ranks so quickly that he'll force the issue, but moving Sandoval just opens a hole in the roster.

 

[Leather]

Well the Mets owe Bobby Bonilla $1.2 Million this year.

 

[jscola85]

Wilpon may have problems, Madoff wasn't one of them. Federal courts allowed him to recover paper losses from the victims fund (which is to say that his only losses were the paper gains he was never paid, he made back his principle).

 
The Wilpon's had to pay over $160M back to the Madoff recovery fund, which precipitated their need to sell off a stake in the Mets.  Based on what I've read, it seems like the Wilpon's used the Madoff fund like a credit card, kicking future charges down the road to be covered by paper gains they had in the fund; once those paper gains disappeared, they've come to the realization those balances are too big for them to pay on their own. As a recent example, they needed MLB to step in and assist them to extend the maturity of a $250M loan coming due.  They have another $600M loaned against SNY coming due this year that as far as I can tell has not been refinanced or repaid either.

 

[nighthob]

The Wilpon's had to pay over $160M back to the Madoff recovery fund, which precipitated their need to sell off a stake in the Mets.  Based on what I've read, it seems like the Wilpon's used the Madoff fund like a credit card, kicking future charges down the road to be covered by paper gains they had in the fund; once those paper gains disappeared, they've come to the realization those balances are too big for them to pay on their own. As a recent example, they needed MLB to step in and assist them to extend the maturity of a $250M loan coming due.  They have another $600M loaned against SNY coming due this year that as far as I can tell has not been refinanced or repaid either.

The courts reversed the ruling, allowing the Wilpons to make claims against the fund for the profits they were never paid.

 

[jscola85]

The courts reversed the ruling, allowing the Wilpons to make claims against the fund for the profits they were never paid.

 
Got it - did not see that was reversed.  In either event, given the team had to sell off $240M worth of ownership stakes to pay down debt and then just had to extend their latest loan out to 2021.

 

[nighthob]

The Wilpons are not terribly competent, I think we can all agree on that.

 

[FanSinceBoggs]

I would make Holt available to see if he can help bring back a coveted young SP that the Red Sox are so desperate to add.  The Mets would be interested in Holt, no doubt about it.  Unfortunately, the Mets aren't trading any of their top young arms, and they certainly won't move one for Holt.  Holt is good, but he isn't good enough.
 
The Royals sent down Ventura. Vargas, who just returned, left the game early with an elbow issue.  The Royals could be in the market for two SPs, a top-of-the-rotation type and a middling type.  You want a middling starting pitcher? -- come shop with the Red Sox, they have middling starting pitchers.  Cherington should offer the Royals Miley, maybe the Royals will bite and part with a top prospect.
 
The other two players with trade value would be Uehara and Tazawa.  Napoli isn't worth anything and the Red Sox don't seem interested in playing him anymore to build up his trade value.  Victorino is useless.  I would trade Hanigan, just to get his contract off the books for next year, but he is essentially worthless too.

 

[Papelbon's Poutine]

I would make Holt available to see if he can help bring back a coveted young SP that the Red Sox are so desperate to add. 

He won't.

 

[BosRedSox5]

Cherington should offer the Royals Miley, maybe the Royals will bite and part with a top prospect.

 
If that seems ridiculous, just remember that the Red Sox traded two of their top ten prospects for him. 

 

[Rovin Romine]

He won't.

(Unless it's an injured guy or another recovery project or a prospect.) I agree no buyer is going to send mlb ready proven talent out at the trade deadline. Unless they have a true surplus at a position.

I think lottery tickets/salary dumps are the best we can hope for.

JBJ might have some value to a team who thinks he may just need a change of scenery.