The rest of the league should have sat back with glee and watched the Poole contract accelerate the end of the Warriors dynasty. Some of these franchises seem to exist solely to bail out other teams.
General Offseason Thread.
- Thread starter RorschachsMask
- Start date
Paul on the Warriors gives me the same feelings as the Pippen/Barkley Rockets or Shaq on the Celtics. It's a wrap.
Agreed, rehabbing young player value is a big piece of the teardown/re-set playbook....see Markkanen, Lauri
Yup, and a big part of the reason the Warriors won the title in 2022 was because Poole played really well. The ceiling for the team, as constructed, required Poole to provide another scorer, often off the bench, to take some of the burden off of Steph and a not-quite-the-same Klay Thompson. And a big reason the Warriors ultimately flamed out this year was because Poole wasn't very good.
As constructed today, Paul is going to be playing a really big role for this team and in the playoffs he is going to have to be ready to play a lot of minutes, every other night.
The team getting Kuzma, as the Wizards would be using it to carve out a TPE and giving up a second round pick or two.
On the other hand they'll be cheering if Poole threatens Wilt's record. Sure, it will take him 85 FGA to get there, but I guarantee you that JP's willing to take every last one of those shots.
The guy that would've been a great get for the Warriors is Tyus Jones. My guess is that they asked WAS for him and were told that Tyus would require adding Kuminga and another pick or two to the deal.
I guess GSW has to hope that Moody and Kuminga are ready to contribute consistently.
Kerr basically admitted as much in interviews after they were ousted from the playoffs. Poole was always gone. It was just a question of who/how.
It’s kind of funny that they traded the one who got punched rather than the one who punched.
Overheard on the Dub Nation HQ blog:
“Are Steph and CP3 the best father/son combo of all time?”
“Are Steph and CP3 the best father/son combo of all time?”
The nba is the best. He probably just misread it, but that’s less fun.
View: https://twitter.com/MikeAdxx/status/1672434659521622017?s=20
View: https://twitter.com/MikeAdxx/status/1672434659521622017?s=20
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That would be consistent with Morey's rep for asking for insane returns on his guys. Given Harris is a negative-value contract I wouldn't trade any one of those three for him (not even a second-around pick) much less all three.
Lol, it also fits with the rep of Morey not actually being a very good GM, he embraced analytics early, other than that his teams are consistently shitshows
Sure, but is the team a contender? That's the real thing... he wins trades sometimes for sure, that will happen when you hold out for huge returns, at some point you might get it. The problem is he's never shown himself capable of building real contenders. Every HOU team was "Harden does something, then all these poor fitting parts support that I guess?"
Morey's teams have something like a 63% winnning percentage over a large sample, so it isn't realistic to say the teams are shitshows. I do think it's a fair question whether the rep is beyond the reality in terms of playoff accomplishments and how the teams ultimately end up. I still think he's an upper-tier GM and also (to date) has not shown he's a top-tier one as he has yet to build what feels like a complete and versatile team. But, he has also built better teams than most GMs out there and that too is worth something.
Yeah, I'm probably being too harsh on him. I forgot he had a couple pretty good pre-Harden teams, and I guess you can argue that it isn't his fault his best teams were in peak Warriors' time. But generally I think he was a guy who was ahead of the curve, then everyone else caught up on using data, and he generally wasted an MVP player by never really making the right (or any) moves around him.
I'm just glad teams like Miami, Philly, Lakers, GS, Sac didn't swoop in and nab Porzingis.
If you're a contender, bereft of draft stock, you are scratching your head right now. How does Boston, desperate for frontcourt help, just walk away with KP & picks?
If you're a contender, bereft of draft stock, you are scratching your head right now. How does Boston, desperate for frontcourt help, just walk away with KP & picks?
I'd take Presti over Morey, personally.
I don't personaly Morey in same discussion as top-tier guys Riley, Ujiri, West (if you still count him), Myers, Presti, Ainge, Buford. But I think he's in the next group - hasn't won championship, and hasn't quite shown he can do it multiple contexts (though he's close on that), but his record is very strong overall. I'd have Connelly in that tier; you can argue Marks is in there (I'd argue TBD). I'd put Stevens in that same group. Kleiman may be in this tier as well, though track record is shorter. Collectively, that is the top third or so of league, give or take.
I do think fair to ask if the game has caught Morey at least to some degree - his 'edge' from Houston understanding threes and analytics is now gone and the Sixers situation does not look (to me) all that great...though I also am lower than most on Embiid so I'm not sure anyone else was going to do better inheriting Embiid, Harris, etc. He added Harden and good role players last year, in my view; he's a lot better than Brand or Colangelo building the roster.
Rating GMs is really tough---guys can look good because they have a couple top players; guys can slide quickly as injuries or roster change happens. A lot of GMs are in the role for short enough period it's hard to tell what was them and what was owner or what they inherited (like, how do you rate James Jones right now?) Part of what you get with Morey (or Presti) is certainty that you have a serious person who isn't awful or out of his league...that is worth something, I'd argue, given how many people have a GM role and ultimately are shown not to really be up to the gig (I'd argue Pelinka is the highest-profile example of someone who isn't really up to the gig; Knicks have had a procession of people not up to it, as did Wizards prior to recent change etc.). But that also is different than truly being elite and a difference-maker...that's a small set of guys.
I don't personaly Morey in same discussion as top-tier guys Riley, Ujiri, West (if you still count him), Myers, Presti, Ainge, Buford. But I think he's in the next group - hasn't won championship, and hasn't quite shown he can do it multiple contexts (though he's close on that), but his record is very strong overall. I'd have Connelly in that tier; you can argue Marks is in there (I'd argue TBD). I'd put Stevens in that same group. Kleiman may be in this tier as well, though track record is shorter. Collectively, that is the top third or so of league, give or take.
I do think fair to ask if the game has caught Morey at least to some degree - his 'edge' from Houston understanding threes and analytics is now gone and the Sixers situation does not look (to me) all that great...though I also am lower than most on Embiid so I'm not sure anyone else was going to do better inheriting Embiid, Harris, etc. He added Harden and good role players last year, in my view; he's a lot better than Brand or Colangelo building the roster.
Rating GMs is really tough---guys can look good because they have a couple top players; guys can slide quickly as injuries or roster change happens. A lot of GMs are in the role for short enough period it's hard to tell what was them and what was owner or what they inherited (like, how do you rate James Jones right now?) Part of what you get with Morey (or Presti) is certainty that you have a serious person who isn't awful or out of his league...that is worth something, I'd argue, given how many people have a GM role and ultimately are shown not to really be up to the gig (I'd argue Pelinka is the highest-profile example of someone who isn't really up to the gig; Knicks have had a procession of people not up to it, as did Wizards prior to recent change etc.). But that also is different than truly being elite and a difference-maker...that's a small set of guys.
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The CP3 hamstring year was very impressive, I thought. That was a good roster around Harden.
Great post and agreed with about all of it -though I would rank Stevens higher. I think Brad is a shark.
Had he stayed in the Medical Product Sales industry, he’d be the CEO of a company by now or very close to it. Shark is an apt description.
Its been mentioned but this is slanderous to those Houston teams. They very nearly knocked off a Warriors team in the conversation for the best ever, if not for injuries and all their shooters suddenly turning into pumpkins in game 7.
https://hoopshype.com/rumor/timberwolves-naz-reid-agree-to-a-three-year-deal/
Naz Reid re-signs with Wolves.
Naz Reid re-signs with Wolves.
LFG
View: https://twitter.com/KeithSmithNBA/status/1673308897992400897
This is one of the busiest weeks on the NBA calendar. By Thursday June 29, all option & qualifying offer decisions need made. Here's what's left: 27 player & team options 76 qualifying offers (some pending options) 23 contract guarantees Free Agency opens June 30 at 6PM ET!
View: https://twitter.com/KeithSmithNBA/status/1673308897992400897
This is one of the busiest weeks on the NBA calendar. By Thursday June 29, all option & qualifying offer decisions need made. Here's what's left: 27 player & team options 76 qualifying offers (some pending options) 23 contract guarantees Free Agency opens June 30 at 6PM ET!
Atlanta - WTF??
Adrian Wojnarowski
@wojespn
ESPN Sources: The Hawks are finalizing a trade to send F/C John Collins to the Jazz for Rudy Gay and a future second-round pick. Atlanta’s largely unloading Collins’ three years, $78M for some roster building flexibility and alignment with looming changes to salary cap.
Adrian Wojnarowski
@wojespn
ESPN Sources: The Hawks are finalizing a trade to send F/C John Collins to the Jazz for Rudy Gay and a future second-round pick. Atlanta’s largely unloading Collins’ three years, $78M for some roster building flexibility and alignment with looming changes to salary cap.
That feels like a "Collins gotta go" type deal if ever there was one. Of course details matter so let's see what they are.
They must have turned down some legitimate offers over the past few years and now they basically salary dumped him. Hilarious.
Me too, then I started to look for Minnesota references in the trade details.
Seems like a steal for the Jazz.
I don't get the timing of this at all. I think what they got for him is legitimately what he's worth today, but he's just 25, signed for 2-3 more years, and is worth far less than what he was even 12 months ago, let alone 2-3 years ago when it seemed like he could fetch some real talent. What's the harm in keeping him for another year to see if he can improve his value somewhat? This is a guy who averaged 19 and 9 and shot 38% from 3 from ages 21-24, despite his clear weaknesses this is pretty rough. This is the very definition of selling low.
John Collins has some freaky finger injury which killed his shooting percentages last season. I wonder if it still hasn't healed and the Hawks are spooked by it?
This.
There has been smoke around Collins and others not getting along, and Collins has been in a ton of trade rumors over his time there. This is just making him gone. But clearly there is a money aspect to it, since it can't be true that nobody was offering something better than the corpse of Rudy Gay and a second. Either way, talk about a guy's stock falling.
From the ESPN article:
“Among players active in each of the past six seasons, Collins is one of just five to average 15 points on 55%-plus shooting, according to ESPN Stats & Information data. The other four are Nikola Jokic, Giannis Antetokounmpo, Jonas Valanciunas and Domantas Sabonis.”
So Ainge has turned Russell Westbrook / Rudy Gobert / Donovan Mitchell / Rudy Gay’s corpse into:
Lauri Markannen (26)
Walker Kessler (21)
John Collins (25)
Collin Sexton (24)
8 1st round picks (4 for Gobert, 3 for Donovan, 1 for Westbrook)
3 1st round pick swaps
$48M in cap space for 23-24
That is a pretty incredible first 18 months on the job in my opinion.
“Among players active in each of the past six seasons, Collins is one of just five to average 15 points on 55%-plus shooting, according to ESPN Stats & Information data. The other four are Nikola Jokic, Giannis Antetokounmpo, Jonas Valanciunas and Domantas Sabonis.”
So Ainge has turned Russell Westbrook / Rudy Gobert / Donovan Mitchell / Rudy Gay’s corpse into:
Lauri Markannen (26)
Walker Kessler (21)
John Collins (25)
Collin Sexton (24)
8 1st round picks (4 for Gobert, 3 for Donovan, 1 for Westbrook)
3 1st round pick swaps
$48M in cap space for 23-24
That is a pretty incredible first 18 months on the job in my opinion.
This gets the Hawks 1.) Below the 2nd apron, 2.) Below the 1st apron, 3.) Trade exemption for $25M
It has massive financial and roster flexibility impact based on the new CBA.
Collins is a good asset, he’s just not good enough to be the #2 or #3 asset on a championship team at his cost. If teams are signing players to big deals going forward, you have to be sure they are a top 3 to win you a championship or you will be offloading him for a bag of balls 2 years later.
I think the Jazz should by the official second team of SoSH as long as Danny is there.
Not completely comparable, but this is 100% why you snap trade Smart when it gets you a starter and the 1sts needed to get another rotation player.