General Offseason Thread.
- Thread starter RorschachsMask
- Start date
If Jaylen is leaving and Jayson says he wants Beal or he's next there is my defense. Aside from that if you can swap him out for Brogdon and flotsam you do that too.
Those are two pretty massive ifs. Also Brogdon and flotsam for Beal? There's like a $30m salary gap in that flotsam, and also the Wizards don't even return that phone call.
I've been a Quickly fan before he was drafted, but this seems rich. Yikes his On-Off and +/- are off the charts, I hadn't really kept track.
When Immanuel Quickley plays, good stuff happens. But what is that good stuff worth? We attempted to find out. The Athletic recently polled 15 people who work in front offices across the NBA, asking what they would deem a “fair” extension for Quickley. Each partaker was given anonymity so that he could speak freely. Answers were all over the map. The largest proposed salary was $27.5 million — $110 million over four years. Three other people suggested nine-figure contracts: five years, $125 million; four years, $100 million; and five years, $100 million.
– via Philly Voice
When Immanuel Quickley plays, good stuff happens. But what is that good stuff worth? We attempted to find out. The Athletic recently polled 15 people who work in front offices across the NBA, asking what they would deem a “fair” extension for Quickley. Each partaker was given anonymity so that he could speak freely. Answers were all over the map. The largest proposed salary was $27.5 million — $110 million over four years. Three other people suggested nine-figure contracts: five years, $125 million; four years, $100 million; and five years, $100 million.
– via Philly Voice
It's actually only like 15 million in flotsam.
For example, Brogdon, TimeLord, Muscala works
Wizards don't really have a choice. Beal controls everything due to his NTC. OKC could offer 20 picks and Beal could still force a move to the Celtics for peanuts.
They have a choice to not trade him. So no, he cannot force his way to Boston for nothing. And if you say "he'll just hold out," I seriously doubt that. He's been overly loyal to the Wiz for years.
Yeah, sure, they could not trade him, but if they do trade him because they just want to get off the contract, it's to a place he wants to go. His leverage isn't holding out, it's getting paid an absurd amount of money for his talent level.
Yeah. Well every time we think a guy is impossible to move, he moves, but not necessarily to the most obvious choice. He can obviously shoot down destinations, but I don't know if the Wiz should settle quickly. Anyway, I'm guessing the Jays stay and Boston can't swing anything to add Beal on top of that. But maybe they'll try?
Yeah, I'm skeptical of Beal in Boston and think he goes elsewhere, but just pointing out that the deterrent isn't likely the asset cost to DC but rather how it would kill the Celtics salary cap. Whatever team he goes to, it probably won't be for much.
Miami will need to add in a pick or two, but I'm sure they would be willing to do so. That is the cleanest fit I see looking across teams---Milwaukee is tougher to see especially since they don't have a high-salaried guy as young as Herro so you're likely looking at a three way deal to reroute Middleton or someone like that
I wonder if Beal would be willing to go to San Antonio - could sell him on being the first piece of a contender with VW, no state income tax, etc. The Wizards wouldn't be getting much back for him, but they'd be trading him into cap space so they wouldn't need to. And the Spurs would be getting a solid player to pair with VW and that theoretically could be flipped further down the road.
He doesn't really seem like a Spurs-type player, so I doubt this would happen, but it's a possibility in my mind - the Spurs have so much cap space + the VW thing potentially making them more attractive than they otherwise would be that I think they have to be in the discussion for any team trying to trade out of a big contract as part of a rebuilding effort.
Given his absurd contract, Beal is likely to appeal strictly to win-now teams who will absorb the back end in exchange for a shot in the next two years. He's just a scoring guard, that's not a scarce resource to begin with.
The Wizards will return every phone call.
They are a bad team, Beal is not that good, and he is way overpaid. He has very little value and I'm sure they would love to get rid of him.
Whatever they end up getting for him will not much... most likely other overpaid guys (though shorter term and cheaper), role players, and/or mediocre picks.
Brogdon is at 22.5 million. Beal is at 46.7 million.
I believe the rule is still 125% plus 100K. So Boston would only have to send out an additional 14.76 million, assuming they are willing to take on that additional salary
If I'm the other side I don't. I'm a Scoot guy and have him comfortably ahead of Miller, whose lack of a first step/lower body power is going largely unnoticed by virtually everyone. I have his ceiling capped well below Scoot.
Yeah I am on that side. I agree that Scoot is a tier ahead of Miller.
I didn't like Williamson in his draft year because I thought the injuries would be a problem at that weight. If I were Charlotte, I wouldn't trade Scoot for him, because it will end poorly. Honestly I think if I'm Charlotte I basically draft Scoot, and basically am not answering phone calls on him
If I am Washington, I take this offer over Herro and Robinson. Those are two bad contracts with term…don’t understand why Washington would want or value either of them
Herro is the only one in either package with some upside and the potential for all-star level play, and if you swap out Robinson for Kyle Lowry (a contract that expires two years earlier), that might be something they'd be interested in.
Is there any realistic scenario Tatum, Jaylen, and Beal are all on the same team at the same time financially?
Well I guess it depends on the draft picks/swaps Maybe they could move Brogdon somewhere else for a pick, so maybe he has value, the rest of it is just pure crap. And I don't think the swaps add any real value here, as at least the net 5 years it would be a shock to see a swap adding value for Was.
What picks could the Celtics even move? I guess if after the draft they could send out a late 20s pick in a turn of a 2024 draft, and their 2026, which again is likely a late first. 2028 is tied up with the Spurs? So maybe they could offer 2030
There just isn't much value there.
Yeah, I think if Washington gets Herro, he scores 25+ points a game for the next few years. It may be best guy on a bad team numbers, but someone will have to do it there. And Washington could throw in a 27 #1 (I think), and that pick to me is a lot more valuable than any of the potential Celtic #1s, as there will very likely be a point soon where Miami crashes.
They can do it next year, maybe even for the next 2 years, but by the time Tatum's extension comes in, they probably would have to get rid of beal/Brown
Have to imagine Philly would be very interested in a deal that didn’t include Maxey and not very interested in a deal that did.
PHI can only offer a 2029 first (their 2023 is going to UTA, 2025 to OKC, and 2027 to BRK). They aren't getting anyone with Harris and some future seconds (their 2023 and 2024 2nds have been forfeited)
Yup, which is why they’re in a tough spot, especially with Harden likely leaving. That team won’t have enough offensive juice, especially in the games Embiid misses.
Not really no.
Also trading Brogdon to pay Brad Beal 50-60M to be the 5th best player on your team (maybe 6th) is insanity... he's not particularly good, no real indication he's an upgrade on Smart, or White.
I just get bad vibes from a contender trading for Beal after 40 and 50 games played the past 2 seasons. He's going to want to play a hard regular season to prove himself again in the spotlight, then a deep playoff run for like 85-95 total games played? Seems a big ask for a team such as the Cs when endurance through the playoffs has been one of the biggest issues in the past few seasons.
And as @Cellar-Door mentions above, he has fallen off recently. I watched him in person in 2019 and Beal was unstoppable at that point, but since...not so much.
And as @Cellar-Door mentions above, he has fallen off recently. I watched him in person in 2019 and Beal was unstoppable at that point, but since...not so much.
we were discussing Beal to Miami last week, it makes the most sense
Herro/Lowry/pick is more than fair
Beal's contract is pretty crap IMO
Herro/Lowry/pick is more than fair
Beal's contract is pretty crap IMO
Beal was really really good last year when he was healthy before the hamstring issues crippled him. It may have been as good as he's ever look to be honest and he's only going to be 30 years old next season. The guy has a lot left in the tank if he can get past the injuries as he had previously been very durable.
If Beal wants to force his way specifically to Boston (price is lower), you could build a really interesting team by dealing Jaylen for high-end role-players and picks, and running an offense around Beal and Tatum.
Extending Jaylen this summer doesn't preclude that at all--you deal for Beal and then trade Jaylen next offseason.
You'd also only have 2 years of Beal and Tatum's contracts overlapping, rather than 4 with Jaylen.
I was looking at more of the counting stats, but yes it appears you could say it was starting out to be a very EFFICIENT season. And maybe that bodes well as he is less "the guy" and has talented teammates. His strong start this season was likely helped by the Wizards going fresh into the new season with both Kristaps and Kuzma after Kristaps being traded to them late the previous season.
With Brad’s ability to pick off assets with one first round pick — Al, White, Brogdon — I don’t see him using all of his draft capital on a singular player which limits his tools for future moves.
Yes, maybe I should have been clearer: the only way this works is if Beal says "I want to play with Tatum". In that case, you probably give up only a very minimal amount of draft capital to get him.
You then have the ability to turn Jaylen, this summer or next, into quality role players and additional draft capital.
(I know a lot of people here don't like Beal. This all assumes that a) he wants Boston and b) Brad likes him. It's how you'd proceed if both those two things are true, which is a low % chance I agree.)
To be clear, I’m not anti-Beal. I think his biggest sin is that he’s paid as an alpha when he’s a beta, which is the source of all the consternation around Jaylen.
And I understand that Beal has an unusual amount of control in this situation as he has a no-trade clause. So if the Wizards want to get out from under his contract, they need his cooperation.
I would still have to imagine that they are going to want more in return for him than multiple salaries of shorter duration. If the Gobert/Durant packages are the new normal, then I don’t see Brad being interested. But he was able to acquire White and Brogdon unexpectedly for great value. Maybe he’ll surprise me again.
If the Gobert/Durant packages are anything close to what Beal is going to be traded for then I don't have any idea where he could potentially end up. Bos, Philly, Miami simply don't have anywhere close to those assets available. Maybe if SA wanted him, you could get it, but I just don't see it. Houston is crazy, so maybe he goes there. I guess knicks could make a package, no idea if they would
