General Offseason Thread.

Euclis20

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I could see Golden State trying to extend their window by moving Klay+ for Beal but that's definitely a big risk for them.
The last thing GS needs is another undersized defense-challenged shooting guard who really can't play next to Curry in crunch time.

Klay is a tough one to figure - in between his rough start and horrendous end to the year, he looked as good as ever, at least on offense. From Christmas through the end of the regular season (42 games, a full half year) he averaged 24.2 points and shot .459 from the field and .434 from 3. He lost a step defensively, but is still far better than Beal on that end.
 

slamminsammya

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The last thing GS needs is another undersized defense-challenged shooting guard who really can't play next to Curry in crunch time.

Klay is a tough one to figure - in between his rough start and horrendous end to the year, he looked as good as ever, at least on offense. From Christmas through the end of the regular season (42 games, a full half year) he averaged 24.2 points and shot .459 from the field and .434 from 3. He lost a step defensively, but is still far better than Beal on that end.
On the other hand they do genuinely need more creation, especially if Poole continues to poop his pants.
 

pjheff

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If the Gobert/Durant packages are anything close to what Beal is going to be traded for then I don't have any idea where he could potentially end up. Bos, Philly, Miami simply don't have anywhere close to those assets available. Maybe if SA wanted him, you could get it, but I just don't see it. Houston is crazy, so maybe he goes there. I guess knicks could make a package, no idea if they would
Beal is no Durant, and no one is as stupid as Minnesota, but teams like Philly and Miami could potentially trade a young player of interest (like Maxey or Herro) and a pick to make it worth Washington’s while. Unless Beal demands Boston as his only accepted trade destination, it‘s hard to acquire him while withholding Jaylen and the team’s draft capital.
 

HomeRunBaker

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The last thing GS needs is another undersized defense-challenged shooting guard who really can't play next to Curry in crunch time.
I was thinking Beal is exactly what Golden State needs in a massive upgrade over Poole. I don't rate him as defensively challenged at all. He let up on that end when he was asked to carry the offensive during courses of a game but overall I have him as a plus defender at his position. He was often the guy defending the best perimeter scorers in the 4Q.
 

Bunt4aTriple

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The last thing GS needs is another undersized defense-challenged shooting guard who really can't play next to Curry in crunch time.

Klay is a tough one to figure - in between his rough start and horrendous end to the year, he looked as good as ever, at least on offense. From Christmas through the end of the regular season (42 games, a full half year) he averaged 24.2 points and shot .459 from the field and .434 from 3. He lost a step defensively, but is still far better than Beal on that end.
Not disputing most of this, but is 6'4" considered undersized for an SG these days? Honest question.
 

ElUno20

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I was thinking Beal is exactly what Golden State needs in a massive upgrade over Poole. I don't rate him as defensively challenged at all. He let up on that end when he was asked to carry the offensive during courses of a game but overall I have him as a plus defender at his position. He was often the guy defending the best perimeter scorers in the 4Q.
Cosign. He'd be deadly next to Steph if they retained the right pieces in acquiring him.
 

Jimbodandy

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I was thinking Beal is exactly what Golden State needs in a massive upgrade over Poole. I don't rate him as defensively challenged at all. He let up on that end when he was asked to carry the offensive during courses of a game but overall I have him as a plus defender at his position. He was often the guy defending the best perimeter scorers in the 4Q.
Regarding the bolded, I have no idea what to say. LEBRON, DARKO, and BBRef violently disagree with you.

I've never seen you play hoop, but I feel like I can picture it pretty clearly based on the guys that you really like. It would be unfair to say that Brad can't play defense. It's not unfair to say that he never has.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Regarding the bolded, I have no idea what to say. LEBRON, DARKO, and BBRef violently disagree with you.

I've never seen you play hoop, but I feel like I can picture it pretty clearly based on the guys that you really like. It would be unfair to say that Brad can't play defense. It's not unfair to say that he never has.
I place very little weight in individual Defensive metrics in a team defensive scheme. Other factors such as taking foot off pedal when offensive runs through the player and on a lottery team skews results for that player and these variables are where I find my greatest edges. It makes them appear much worse than they are. Ray Allen is the one example that always comes to mind when this topic comes up.

Edit: When I say "edge" I'm referring to difference from market or from general acceptance which in wagering is always what I'm looking for.
 
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Jimbodandy

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I place very little weight in individual Defensive metrics in a team defensive scheme. Other factors such as taking foot off pedal when offensive runs through the player and on a lottery team skews results for that player and these variables are where I find my greatest edges. It makes them appear much worse than they are. Ray Allen is the one example that always comes to mind when this topic comes up.
They're not gospel. Brad's numbers across all metrics were bad even when he played on borderline playoff teams too. But to your point, they weren't as bad.

Ray is a good example. He was similarly bad. I'm not sure whose point it proves.
 

nighthob

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Beal is no Durant, and no one is as stupid as Minnesota, but teams like Philly and Miami could potentially trade a young player of interest (like Maxey or Herro) and a pick to make it worth Washington’s while. Unless Beal demands Boston as his only accepted trade destination, it‘s hard to acquire him while withholding Jaylen and the team’s draft capital.
Due to the full NTC Beal is going to be traded where he wants to go for the terms he wants. Washington can choose to hold on to a malcontented Beal, that's certainly their right. But it's really their only alternative.
 

HomeRunBaker

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They're not gospel. Brad's numbers across all metrics were bad even when he played on borderline playoff teams too. But to your point, they weren't as bad.

Ray is a good example. He was similarly bad. I'm not sure whose point it proves.
They are gospel to me and how I utilize them. Now using the "they weren't as bad" when on borderline playoff teams is a large part of the things I'm looking at. How would his defense grade on a solid playoff team? Maybe a little better. Maybe I'm a little off, maybe those metrics are a little off. The key point for me is to recognize all those variables that a player cannot control.

Ray Allen wasn't a bad defender in Boston by any means. He was god awful in Seattle by my recollection for many of the reasons we ar discussing. Nobody is claiming Beal is lockdown and to be above average in a leagues whose rules today make most perimeter defenses appear to be turnstiles I think it's comparably pretty good.

Curious as to how you feel the type of player I was crafts my opinions and thought process. Seriously. I think I use my experiences to recognize these variables, reliance on teammates, etc.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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Due to the full NTC Beal is going to be traded where he wants to go for the terms he wants. Washington can choose to hold on to a malcontented Beal, that's certainly their right. But it's really their only alternative.
This is how the NBA works. The Wizards are effectively price takers here.
 

Euclis20

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I was thinking Beal is exactly what Golden State needs in a massive upgrade over Poole. I don't rate him as defensively challenged at all. He let up on that end when he was asked to carry the offensive during courses of a game but overall I have him as a plus defender at his position. He was often the guy defending the best perimeter scorers in the 4Q.
The leading scorer on a lottery team is basically a stone cold lock to look like (and grade out as) a negative defender, but I think Beal's defensive ceiling is closer to Curry (who is basically average) than to an actual good defender. He's a better than Poole in every way except age so maybe there's something there, but I think Curry needs to play alongside a legitimately good defensive guard in order for the Warriors to be a good defensive team (doubly so if Draymond leaves).
 

radsoxfan

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Due to the full NTC Beal is going to be traded where he wants to go for the terms he wants. Washington can choose to hold on to a malcontented Beal, that's certainly their right. But it's really their only alternative.
Even without the NTC, the package for Beal was going to very modest. He is not that good and paid like a top 10 player in the league.

At this point, they will be lucky to get rid of him without having to take back a bad long term contract.

It's reset time for the Wizards but getting rid of Beal isn't going to kickstart things much.
 

TrapperAB

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Weak. Extended vacation. Will be back in game shape halfway through the season.

Apparently there are conditions that Ja must meet in order to return. What are the odds that these conditions have any teeth? (Narrator: The odds were 0%.)
 

Justthetippett

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My guess had been 20 games. I hope this is meaningful enough for him to get it together. Super fun player to watch. There's no need for any of the antics to continue or to not be resolved.
 

P'tucket rhymes with...

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Weak. Extended vacation. Will be back in game shape halfway through the season.

Apparently there are conditions that Ja must meet in order to return. What are the odds that these conditions have any teeth? (Narrator: The odds were 0%.)
It's enough time for him to fuck up again unless the Grizzlies get smart and freeze him in carbonite until he's clear to play.
 

ifmanis5

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They really held that out of the Finals? That would have been a 1 day news story at most. Was expecting half the season at a minimum. Good for the Grizz.
 

Justthetippett

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Is there a chance they wanted to do 40 but knew that would be appealed so reached a gentlemen's agreement on a number that Team Ja would accept without further complaint?
 

OurF'ingCity

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Over a quarter of the season is light? Gilbert Arenas got one year for physically bringing guns to the arena and being indicted on felony gun possession charges. 25 games for briefly flashing a gun on social media (even with the repeat offender aspect) seems about right to me.

One caveat - I assume the NBA investigated and found that Ja was the legal owner of the gun - in other words, that he did not commit any crimes, just showed terrible judgment.
 

Jimbodandy

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Over a quarter of the season is light? Gilbert Arenas got one year for physically bringing guns to the arena and being indicted on felony gun possession charges. 25 games for briefly flashing a gun on social media (even with the repeat offender aspect) seems about right to me.

One caveat - I assume the NBA investigated and found that Ja was the legal owner of the gun - in other words, that he did not commit any crimes, just showed terrible judgment.
Seems like the right number.
 

nighthob

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Over a quarter of the season is light? Gilbert Arenas got one year for physically bringing guns to the arena and being indicted on felony gun possession charges. 25 games for briefly flashing a gun on social media (even with the repeat offender aspect) seems about right to me.
Actually it was more like 50 games (he and Crittenton got suspended for the remainder of the year in January of 2010). Although one could argue that giving a gun to a first degree murderer as a practical joke was its own punishment.
 

HomeRunBaker

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My guess had been 20 games. I hope this is meaningful enough for him to get it together. Super fun player to watch. There's no need for any of the antics to continue or to not be resolved.
I had 50 games to full season. Very light imo and def not meaningful enough to be a wake up call...if 8 wasn't why would 20? Guy gets what every player wishes for....a 62-game season. We aren't privy to the full investigation though.
 

johnmd20

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Over a quarter of the season is light? Gilbert Arenas got one year for physically bringing guns to the arena and being indicted on felony gun possession charges. 25 games for briefly flashing a gun on social media (even with the repeat offender aspect) seems about right to me.

One caveat - I assume the NBA investigated and found that Ja was the legal owner of the gun - in other words, that he did not commit any crimes, just showed terrible judgment.
I agree. This doesn't seem light at all. This is a significant suspension. An unpaid one.
 

OurF'ingCity

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I had 50 games to full season. Very light imo and def not meaningful enough to be a wake up call...if 8 wasn't why would 20? Guy gets what every player wishes for....a 62-game season. We aren't privy to the full investigation though.
He'll also be docked pay for the suspension - something like $7.6 million if I'm understanding correctly. Not exactly chump change, even for an NBA all-star, so I'm sure he's not exactly happy about this.
 

Ale Xander

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Embarrassingly light suspension imho. I thought it would be 40 games at the very least.
 

OurF'ingCity

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It's also worth keeping in mind this is the fifth-longest suspension in NBA history, and the only ones longer have been for PEDs (OJ Mayo) or actions that did or could have constituted actual crimes (Arenas, Artest going into the stands, and Sprewell choking Carlissimo).
 

The Social Chair

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The 25 game suspension means he is not eligible for all-NBA with the new CBA. Not sure if that has implications for his supermax.
 

PedroKsBambino

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The 25 game suspension means he is not eligible for all-NBA with the new CBA. Not sure if that has implications for his supermax.
he made second team all nba in 2022 I believe, so. It sure there is any supermax implication for him
 

Cellar-Door

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25 is about what I expected. Enough to have some impact, not enough that the team or NBAPA feels like fighting it, everyone takes it and goes home.
 

the moops

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I had 50 games to full season. Very light imo and def not meaningful enough to be a wake up call...if 8 wasn't why would 20? Guy gets what every player wishes for....a 62-game season. We aren't privy to the full investigation though.
It was 25, not 20. And he doesn't get paid for those 25 games. And while players do want fewer games, they don't want them crammed into a shorter season.
 

nighthob

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It was 25, not 20. And he doesn't get paid for those 25 games. And while players do want fewer games, they don't want them crammed into a shorter season.
Yeah, that suspension is like a $10 million – $11 million fine. If that ain’t a wake up call I don’t know what is.
 

TripleOT

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No, Ja on that contract is completely untouchable, never mind for a prime asset like Jaylen.
Ja is on the books for around $192 million for the next five seasons, not subtracting the $10 million for missing 25 games this upcoming season.

If JB is supermaxed, he will be making $258 million the next five seasons, with $66 million guaranteed six seasons from now.

If Morant can right himself, he’s preferable, but that would be a huge gamble for Celtics ownership. If Morant didn’t have these issues, would anyone not make that trade?
 

bsan34

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Ja is on the books for around $192 million for the next five seasons, not subtracting the $10 million for missing 25 games this upcoming season.

If JB is supermaxed, he will be making $258 million the next five seasons, with $66 million guaranteed six seasons from now.

If Morant can right himself, he’s preferable, but that would be a huge gamble for Celtics ownership. If Morant didn’t have these issues, would anyone not make that trade?
But Ja does have "these issues". He's already on strike two. At this rate, he might be out of the league a year from now. You would have to be legitimately insane to make that trade.
 

PRabbit

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Ja is on the books for around $192 million for the next five seasons, not subtracting the $10 million for missing 25 games this upcoming season.

If JB is supermaxed, he will be making $258 million the next five seasons, with $66 million guaranteed six seasons from now.

If Morant can right himself, he’s preferable, but that would be a huge gamble for Celtics ownership. If Morant didn’t have these issues, would anyone not make that trade?
I wouldn't, mostly because I don't trust Ja's reckless style to keep up without him out for extended periods of time.
 

lovegtm

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So the Phoenix offer would be Paul+Ayton, presumably? Seems better than Herro+Lowry, unless Miami wants to start adding draft capital.

Beal and Heat Culture? Good luck with that.
Why? Beal doesn't have particular issues with effort; he's just been on a shit team forever. Exactly the kind of bet Miami is set up to make.