soxhop411 said:
I'm not sure. Every generation wants to have a "the best" and when there isn't one around (that isn't tainted by scandal) we prop one up?drleather2001 said:Yea. Easily one of the top 50 guys I'll see.
Why he's treated like he's the best, tho, is the question.
Deathofthebambino said:I haven't read a single story about Jeter this year, haven't seen 10 seconds of him on my television that wasn't a highlight from the game that day and it really hasn't been that hard to avoid.
Maddux?Deathofthebambino said:Who is better than Jeter, career-wise, that's retired in the last decade or so that didn't finish their career tainted by scandal, PED's, or battle injury and leave the game without a chance for the year long retirement ceremony that he's getting? Only guy I can really think of is Rivera, and the accolades and stories about him were no different, IMO, than what Jeter will receive.
Deathofthebambino said:Who is better than Jeter, career-wise, that's retired in the last decade or so that didn't finish their career tainted by scandal, PED's, or battle injury and leave the game without a chance for the year long retirement ceremony that he's getting? Only guy I can really think of is Rivera, and the accolades and stories about him were no different, IMO, than what Jeter will receive. Bottom line, since guys like Ripken, Puckett, etc. left the game, there really hasn't exactly been a string of first ballot HOF'ers retiring in recent memory that didn't leave under their own terms like he is.
I dunno. I respect Jeter and he's had a great career, but I think most of the folks on this board don't hold a lot of the news media in high regard no matter who they're covering.Deathofthebambino said:Who is better than Jeter, career-wise, that's retired in the last decade or so that didn't finish their career tainted by scandal, PED's, or battle injury and leave the game without a chance for the year long retirement ceremony that he's getting? Only guy I can really think of is Rivera, and the accolades and stories about him were no different, IMO, than what Jeter will receive. Bottom line, since guys like Ripken, Puckett, etc. left the game, there really hasn't exactly been a string of first ballot HOF'ers retiring in recent memory that didn't leave under their own terms like he is.
If you don't want to hear the shit the media is spoon feeding, turn it off. I haven't read a single story about Jeter this year, haven't seen 10 seconds of him on my television that wasn't a highlight from the game that day and it really hasn't been that hard to avoid. I tuned in for a few minutes tonight, saw hit the game winner, and turned it off. Easy as can be. For all I know, he could be getting a blow job on the mound from McCarver and I wouldn't be the wiser. Remember the game and the players the way you want to remember them and tune out the rest of the shit. To me, Jeter was a guy who led his team to a whole bunch of championships, teammates and fans adored him, and he wasn't blanketed by a scandal that took down most of his peers, or any other scandal, for that matter. He was a fucking Yankee and that sucked, but if he played here, no amount of praise or love from the media or anyone else would be enough for the folks who post on this board, and that's the truth.
glasspusher said:I dunno. I respect Jeter and he's had a great career, but I think most of the folks on this board don't hold a lot of the news media in high regard no matter who they're covering.
glasspusher said:I dunno. I respect Jeter and he's had a great career, but I think most of the folks on this board don't hold a lot of the news media in high regard no matter who they're covering.
No kidding. So sick of the ball washing. Go the fuck away already.mikeford said:Harold Reynolds was crying on MLB Network.
Good riddance.
1. PedroDeathofthebambino said:Who is better than Jeter, career-wise, that's retired in the last decade or so that didn't finish their career tainted by scandal, PED's, or battle injury and leave the game without a chance for the year long retirement ceremony that he's getting? Only guy I can really think of is Rivera, and the accolades and stories about him were no different, IMO, than what Jeter will receive.
I more or less agree with everything you wrote. Over all, last night was pretty cool. But you lost me with the last line. The reality is, the praise and love Jeter has received during his farewell tour wouldn't have happened had he played for any other team. The last player I remember (aside from Mariano) to get even close to this sort of farewell tour was Ripken (who was, btw, a better player), and it did not reach this level of sanctimony. If you live in NY, you can not avoid the "Jeter wuz the greatestist" parade, or have a rational conversation about just how good he was without having phrases like "intangibles" and "he did things the right way". Do those things change how great he was? No. But they can annoy someone who doesn't buy in, or wants to have a rational conversation with a coworker.Deathofthebambino said:He was a fucking Yankee and that sucked, but if he played here, no amount of praise or love from the media or anyone else would be enough for the folks who post on this board, and that's the truth.
Deathofthebambino said:Who is better than Jeter, career-wise, that's retired in the last decade or so that didn't finish their career tainted by scandal, PED's, or battle injury and leave the game without a chance for the year long retirement ceremony that he's getting? Only guy I can really think of is Rivera, and the accolades and stories about him were no different, IMO, than what Jeter will receive. Bottom line, since guys like Ripken, Puckett, etc. left the game, there really hasn't exactly been a string of first ballot HOF'ers retiring in recent memory that didn't leave under their own terms like he is.
If you don't want to hear the shit the media is spoon feeding, turn it off. I haven't read a single story about Jeter this year, haven't seen 10 seconds of him on my television that wasn't a highlight from the game that day and it really hasn't been that hard to avoid. I tuned in for a few minutes tonight, saw hit the game winner, and turned it off. Easy as can be. For all I know, he could be getting a blow job on the mound from McCarver and I wouldn't be the wiser. Remember the game and the players the way you want to remember them and tune out the rest of the shit. To me, Jeter was a guy who led his team to a whole bunch of championships, teammates and fans adored him, and he wasn't blanketed by a scandal that took down most of his peers, or any other scandal, for that matter. He was a fucking Yankee and that sucked, but if he played here, no amount of praise or love from the media or anyone else would be enough for the folks who post on this board, and that's the truth.
Deathofthebambino said:To me, Jeter was a guy who led his team to a whole bunch of championships, teammates and fans adored him
Will the dirt between SS and 3B be discounted because he rarely touched it?Soxfan in Fla said:They were apparently digging up the dirt he played on at SS after the game last night. Presumably to sell to stupid MFY fans. For the love of God let the ball washing end already.
Deathofthebambino said:Who is better than Jeter, career-wise, that's retired in the last decade or so that didn't finish their career tainted by scandal, PED's, or battle injury and leave the game without a chance for the year long retirement ceremony that he's getting? Only guy I can really think of is Rivera, and the accolades and stories about him were no different, IMO, than what Jeter will receive. Bottom line, since guys like Ripken, Puckett, etc. left the game, there really hasn't exactly been a string of first ballot HOF'ers retiring in recent memory that didn't leave under their own terms like he is.
Outstanding.The Gray Eagle said:Will the dirt between SS and 3B be discounted because he rarely touched it?
Dewy4PrezII said:I love that the media ballwashing gives him credit for "knocking in" the go ahead run with a grounder that should have been a routine out but instead was thrown into right field for an error.
Dewy4PrezII said:I love that the media ballwashing gives him credit for "knocking in" the go ahead run with a grounder that should have been a routine out but instead was thrown into right field for an error.
jodyreeddudley78 said:I more or less agree with everything you wrote. Over all, last night was pretty cool. But you lost me with the last line. The reality is, the praise and love Jeter has received during his farewell tour wouldn't have happened had he played for any other team. The last player I remember (aside from Mariano) to get even close to this sort of farewell tour was Ripken (who was, btw, a better player), and it did not reach this level of sanctimony. If you live in NY, you can not avoid the "Jeter wuz the greatestist" parade, or have a rational conversation about just how good he was without having phrases like "intangibles" and "he did things the right way". Do those things change how great he was? No. But they can annoy someone who doesn't buy in, or wants to have a rational conversation with a coworker.
I think we were lucky to watch Jeter play, but I'm ready for the end already.
Deathofthebambino said:Hate him all you want, but as a fan of the game, he's one of the greatest players I'll ever have a chance to watch in my lifetime. I'm happy to see it end the way it did tonight.
NYCSox said:Wait so defense doesn't count? That's a huge part of playing the position, you know?
For his position, Jeter’s been one of the game’s worse defensive players. His position has included some of the very best defensive players in baseball. In terms of overall value, those about negate one another. In the end, the most correct opinion of Jeter’s defensive ability is, `Hey, he’s been all right.’
mt8thsw9th said:Tom, you had me until the Ripken bit. Ripken was great up until 30, and then he put up 5791 plate appearances with a 97 OPS+ during a pretty extreme offensive era.
NYCSox said:Wait so defense doesn't count? That's a huge part of playing the position, you know?
mt8thsw9th said:Tom, you had me until the Ripken bit. Ripken was great up until 30, and then he put up 5791 plate appearances with a 97 OPS+ during a pretty extreme offensive era. He was pretty much toast by 36, but stuck around to break 3000 hits, etc.
Larkin, for comparison, had a 116 OPS+ post 30. I wonder what type of career line Ripken would have had if he didn't selfishly insist on playing every game (career-wise August and September were markedly his worst months performance-wise).
Jeter's line is pretty remarkable for a strong defensive shortstop, but the issue was he was pretty dreadful at it. It will be interesting to see the advances there are in quantifying defense as a component of WAR, because the early returns leave him largely indistinguishable from Alan Trammell (and tangent alert, but why is he not in with Lou Whitaker?).
OPS+ is also not adjusted for position. Cal was a plus defensively at shortstop until the last couple years, and a definite plus offensively at the position, even if roughly average among all positions by OPS+.glennhoffmania said:
Why does the offensive era matter when you're citing OPS+? Yeah he wasn't great relative to what other hitters were doing but overall he was a really, really good player for a long time.
Exactly. Ignoring position, Jeter was a very, very good hitter in the grand scheme of things. He's only considered great because he played SS. If he played another position, like he should have for most of his career, there is no debate about whether he's among the all time greats. For a 3B or LF he wouldn't be great.
He's still very good and is a lock for the HOF. His hit total is extremely impressive. But defense counts, and he was terrible at SS.
Smiling Joe Hesketh said:Yet these assholes are going to try to convince me that Jeter (who is a HoFer and everyone knows it so that's not even in question) should go in 1st ballot unanimously? Please.
glennhoffmania said:
Why does the offensive era matter when you're citing OPS+? Yeah he wasn't great relative to what other hitters were doing but overall he was a really, really good player for a long time.
Exactly. Ignoring position, Jeter was a very, very good hitter in the grand scheme of things. He's only considered great because he played SS. If he played another position, like he should have for most of his career, there is no debate about whether he's among the all time greats. For a 3B or LF he wouldn't be great.
He's still very good and is a lock for the HOF. His hit total is extremely impressive. But defense counts, and he was terrible at SS.
HillysLastWalk said:Guys, guys! Don't you know? Rickey Henderson sucks! SUCKS! You know why? Even though he was a great outfielder, he wasn't Babe Ruth. Mickey Mantle? Dogshit. Ted Williams? Garbage.
In conclusion, if you aren't the #1 person at your position, and only top 5, ever. You should get no accolades!
The_Powa_of_Seiji_Ozawa said:
Surely there must be a couple of angry HOF voters out there whose wives Jeter slept with.