C's pick Aaron Nesmith #14 overall

benhogan

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I'm not arguing this (Theis and TL both have better DLEBRON numbers than Thompson), I'm referencing DLEBRON to say that Thompson is actually pretty good (his OLEBRON is bad, but trending positively after his slow start) and not a bad defender. I'm not arguing that he is better than Theis or TL.



I've never argued that TimeLord was unplayable. I don't think anyone has. There have been arguments in response to the constant "Why is Thompson getting minutes?" question and the answer is that he's been more consistent than TL at certain things defensively. Again, this isn't a talent argument, it is trying to understand Brad's rationale for the choices he makes. I also agree with the posters who think its wise to see if TL can remain healthy for a significant stretch of time before I'd feel comfortable trading away someone like Thompson.



In the Toronto game, where Theis played 7 minutes, Brad talked about Theis playing a significant number of minutes over the last few seasons, and liking having the option to rest him in that situation. And, of course, TL has had a health issue that has been discussed and which seems to require some load management. So, having Thompson helps to mitigate some of those concerns. I don't know why the condensed schedule is an argument for trading away your big depth when two of your bigs reliably get injured every season.

I just don't really understand a fundamental part of this argument, if you think Thompson is easily replaced by one of the big men you assume will be available at the deadline for essentially nothing, why would any team give you value for Thompson? Why wouldn't the teams that could use Thompson just trade for one of those guys instead? This also ignores the larger context of Theis's contract situation. We have no idea if Theis will return next season, it's not difficult to imagine some team offering him more than the MLE because he is a good player. You have Thompson under control for next season at reasonable value. For the posters that think TL is ready to be a full time, 30 minute a night starter, why wouldn't you trade Theis instead? Isn't he more likely to get you a better piece than Thompson?
I see Theis and TL both being better and more versatile than TT. That doesn't mean TT is bad, he isn't. He'd be more valuable to a team that doesn't have a decent/healthy 5 (Nets and Raptors). The talent spread between TT and the list of 5's potentially available wouldn't be a problem for the Celtics. BUT for the Nets, who are in GFIN mode, TT might make a lot of sense. Dinwiddie does very little for the Nets (small trade exception), moving him and a 2nd might work?

But this isn't even a Tristan Thompson issue. The issue for the Celtics is the lack of wing depth once the Celtics decided to say goodbye to Gordon Hayward. If Grant, Semi, Aaron, Romeo had stepped forward and proven to be a high-quality rotational wing this wouldn't be an issue. It was a fine gamble to see if any could be that wing BUT none have, so over the next 2 weeks Danny needs to find a rotational wing/ballhandler. It's going to come with a cost. I'd rather keep the young assets (Romeo, Nesmith, draft picks, full TPE) and move our 3rd best Center.

I also believe Danny can re-sign Theis in the offseason.
 
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BigSoxFan

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More importantly, if Thompson is so easily replaced, why would Detroit trade useful players for him? Wouldn't they be after someone like Pritchard or Nesmith (to bring this full circle)?
Wouldn't TT be more about matching salaries for Wright in order to preserve the TPE? They line up almost perfectly and both players are signed for next year. So, the Celtics would need to attach something of value beyond TT to make it worth it for Detroit.
 

NomarsFool

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I just don't really understand a fundamental part of this argument, if you think Thompson is easily replaced by one of the big men you assume will be available at the deadline for essentially nothing, why would any team give you value for Thompson?
I feel like people have been talking past each other on this topic for weeks now. Hypothetically, if you have a team with Steph Curry as your starting PG, and then you happen to have Jrue Holiday as your back-up PG to play the 12 minutes a game in the playoffs that Steph isn't on the court - that's a great luxury to have. Unfortunately, that is also not a very efficient use of your roster. You could trade Jrue Holiday to someone else for whom he would be the starter, and find someone else at a lower cost (salary and assets) to be your backup PG. That does NOT mean that Jrue Holiday is a back-up PG.

The Celtics have 3 players that would play substantive minutes at the 5 for, I would think, most teams in the NBA. It's certainly great depth to have 3 players that are mid-range/average starters or very good back-ups. Over the course of a season, it's definitely nice to have that depth. But, as rotations shorten - that's a lot of investment in talent, resources (maybe not salary), for that position and from a roster construction standpoint, we've seen all season that Brad has felt compelled to have two of them on the floor at a time because they were the best basketball players available to him. Why? Because after Gordon Hayward left, the Celtics did not replace him at wing and the players they hoped might grow into that position (Romeo, Nesmith, Semi, Javonte, etc.) haven't been able to come close. To be clear, I don't think they thought any of those players would be close to Hayward from a production standpoint - but I would assume they would be closer to Hayward than they have been. Because those guys, unfortunately, have been barely replacement level this season - I'd say.

I think there's probably a decent chance that some Semi-upgrade becomes available by the trading deadline for something as "low cost" as a first round pick. That might be all that's really necessary. Or maybe someone like an Otto Porter Junior is available on a minimum deal. That also could be enough. If they don't think those types of players are enough of an upgrade, they could look to part with some additional assets - like Theis' expiring contract or Tristan Thompson or Rob Williams (I think in terms of value they are in about that order). It'd be sacrificing depth at one position to shore up a weakness in another position. It's doable because all 3 of those guys are much better basketball players than Semi/Javonte/Nesmith/et al.
 

benhogan

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More importantly, if Thompson is so easily replaced, why would Detroit trade useful players for him? Wouldn't they be after someone like Pritchard or Nesmith (to bring this full circle)?
Detroit wouldn't trade for Tristan Thompson.

The point is he's easier to replace for Boston since they have 2 centers that are better.

Tristan is very useful if you are without a Center
 
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benhogan

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Wouldn't TT be more about matching salaries for Wright in order to preserve the TPE? They line up almost perfectly and both players are signed for next year. So, the Celtics would need to attach something of value beyond TT to make it worth it for Detroit.
This was the proposition:
Nets: Tristan
Pistons: Dinwiddie + Edwards + Bos 2nd + Nets 2nd
Celtics: Delon Wright + Ellington
Detroit gets Dinwiddie for next season + (2) 2nds + minutes for the next Vinnie Johnson ;)

They already have plenty of BIGs
 

the moops

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Dinwiddie has a player option next year that he is very unlikely going to pick up. So they would be trading for his Bird rights if they think they can resign him
 

benhogan

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Dinwiddie has a player option next year that he is very unlikely going to pick up. So they would be trading for his Bird rights if they think they can resign him
yea its a framework. Nets would probably have to give up more than SD's Bird rights + 2nd for TT
 

Cesar Crespo

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yea its a framework. Nets would probably have to give up more than SD's Bird rights + 2nd for TT
I I think the C's would have to give up a 1st to get Wright. There's nothing in it for Detroit. 2 picks at the end of the 2nd round?
 

benhogan

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I I think the C's would have to give up a 1st to get Wright. There's nothing in it for Detroit. 2 picks at the end of the 2nd round?
Would keep all the 1sts for a bigger deal*

Nets could take Dedmon's contract
Celts could take Okafor's contract
Dinwiddie opts out
Extend Blake's buyout

Now Detroit has MAX room this summer

Detroit also have too many PGs, so potentially motivated to move Wright

https://pistonpowered.com/2021/03/07/detroit-pistons-plethora-point-guards-what-do/
Wright market from Pistons writer/fan?
https://pistonpowered.com/2021/02/27/detroit-pistons-trade-delon-wright-2/
He felt a draft upgrade is all they would be looking for. A late 1st from Philly for Wright + a 2nd from Detroit (TOR pick).

*I'd do that. Use a Celtic 1st, get DW + 2nd, use some of the TPE, and keep Tristan Thompson.
 
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Smokey Joe

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I I think the C's would have to give up a 1st to get Wright. There's nothing in it for Detroit. 2 picks at the end of the 2nd round?
I think that the Celts hold Houstons 2nd rounder in 2023 (31-32 protected) which would be a lot more attractive then 2 picks at the end of the second round. If they actually want Delon Wright, giving up a pick and taking him into the Vincent Poirier memorial trade exception seems simpler then sending out potentially useful players in a three-way trade.

Aaron Nesmith gets no respect. His thread has been highjacked by Delon Wright.
 

BigSoxFan

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So what's the guess here about Nesmith's 2nd half. Will he get off the bench? Be a contributor? I'm more on the pessimistic end, don't see him getting regular minutes, especially if we make a move for another wing.
Blow out minutes and little more. Maybe Brad tries him out again in limited fashion during the heavy parts of the upcoming schedule. Complete non factor come playoff time.
 

lexrageorge

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Nesmith’s window opens next season, which should look a lot more like a normal NBA season. Given the schedule, there will be regular season minutes to be had this season, but he’ll need to really impress out of the gate to get them.
 

HomeRunBaker

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So what's the guess here about Nesmith's 2nd half. Will he get off the bench? Be a contributor? I'm more on the pessimistic end, don't see him getting regular minutes, especially if we make a move for another wing.
We don’t even have to move for a wing for Nesmith to be stapled to the bench. He had a shot, hustled his ass off for a few games but was otherwise unproductive with deer in headlights offensive game. Now that Smart will be returning to take all of Brad’s “throw shit against the wall and see if someone sticks” minutes the only shot would be in maybe a B2B or injury fill-in.
 

Cellar-Door

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Now that we have moved for a wing, does Nesmith see any non-garbage time minutes this season?
probably a few here and there. Guys will get hurt, there will be situations where we have foul trouble and Brad goes to him or Langford instead of Semi or Grant because he needs quicker feet on D.
 

128

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Now that we have moved for a wing, does Nesmith see any non-garbage time minutes this season?
Semi is out with an injury, and Fournier (reportedly) isn't joining the team in Milwaukee. I'm guessing we'll see some Nesmith tonite.
 

lovegtm

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Watching Nesmith, I get so frustrated that the Celtics don't have a G-League team this year. The dude's timing on his shot and his footwork are just totally off; he needs a ton of reps that he simply isn't getting.

I don't know that that would fix everything, but it's definitely hurting his development imo.
 

TripleOT

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This alleged sniper is shooting 31.8% from three. 18% in the first quarter, and 28% in the first half. The guy never seems to hit his first shot.

Maybe instead of having him stand in the corner, they could run some action for him once in a while. Probably not the best choice but with JT and Kemba out there, but I’d like to see him get one or two of Kemba’s handoff threes to see what he can do with them
 

ManicCompression

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This alleged sniper is shooting 31.8% from three. 18% in the first quarter, and 28% in the first half. The guy never seems to hit his first shot.

Maybe instead of having him stand in the corner, they could run some action for him once in a while. Probably not the best choice but with JT and Kemba out there, but I’d like to see him get one or two of Kemba’s handoff threes to see what he can do with them
This seems to be the Brad Stevens Wing Training Program. Start by being solid on D. Step 2 is sitting in the corner and hitting open shots when they come to you. Once that foundation is laid, players can add to it, but they can't skip the first two steps.

I don't mind it because if Nesmith is getting overwhelmed in the catch and shoot game, it's doubtful he'll be comfortable shooting threes off the dribble. With Fournier here and Romeo soaking minutes, he doesn't need to fill a role ASAP. They can be patient with him.
 

TripleOT

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This seems to be the Brad Stevens Wing Training Program. Start by being solid on D. Step 2 is sitting in the corner and hitting open shots when they come to you. Once that foundation is laid, players can add to it, but they can't skip the first two steps.

I don't mind it because if Nesmith is getting overwhelmed in the catch and shoot game, it's doubtful he'll be comfortable shooting threes off the dribble. With Fournier here and Romeo soaking minutes, he doesn't need to fill a role ASAP. They can be patient with him.
I’m hopeful this team can gel, and get to the fourth seed, but if they continue to slog through the season, building some trade value with Nesmith is important. I don’t think there is room for both Romeo and AN on this team if Fournier is retained.
 

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I’m hopeful this team can gel, and get to the fourth seed, but if they continue to slog through the season, building some trade value with Nesmith is important. I don’t think there is room for both Romeo and AN on this team if Fournier is retained.
1. Nesmith and Romeo are very different players
2. Like starting pitching, you can't have too many wings

Nesmith may or may not be the dude, but nothing on his NBA resume so far is proof of either of those possibilities.
 

lovegtm

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I’m hopeful this team can gel, and get to the fourth seed, but if they continue to slog through the season, building some trade value with Nesmith is important. I don’t think there is room for both Romeo and AN on this team if Fournier is retained.
He's likely not going to improve with just a bit of extra PT. He needs the offseason he missed to get comfortable with his NBA role and spot-up shooting imo.
 

ManicCompression

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Nesmith is a rookie on a good team (despite some of their play this year). I'm not sure who else taken after him is doing so obviously better this year:
- Precious Achiuwa has been pretty inconsistent and not markedly better.
- Saddiq Bey is averaging 8 PPG on .375 from 3 - how many minutes is he really seeing on this Celtics team vs. on a dogshit Pistons team?
- I don't think a lot of us had Quickley on our draft boards at 14, but also not sure he's a great fit on this team as a 6'3" shooting guard.
- Tyrese Maxey has been similarly inconsistent and shooting 29% from 3
- Even Devin Vassell's game logs show a guy who's logging nights where he's only playing 7 minutes and ineffectively at that

As the season has gone on and we have a better look at these rookies, no one is really standing out beyond Quickley. All these guys will need patience, but I'm still stoked on Nesmith because I think he'll get it once he has an offseason of pro training in him. Yeah, it sucks we didn't get Halliburton, but we were never going to get Halliburton. Let's see if his shot and comfort on the floor improves in year 2.
 

Cesar Crespo

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Nesmith is a rookie on a good team (despite some of their play this year). I'm not sure who else taken after him is doing so obviously better this year:
- Precious Achiuwa has been pretty inconsistent and not markedly better.
- Saddiq Bey is averaging 8 PPG on .375 from 3 - how many minutes is he really seeing on this Celtics team vs. on a dogshit Pistons team?
- I don't think a lot of us had Quickley on our draft boards at 14, but also not sure he's a great fit on this team as a 6'3" shooting guard.
- Tyrese Maxey has been similarly inconsistent and shooting 29% from 3
- Even Devin Vassell's game logs show a guy who's logging nights where he's only playing 7 minutes and ineffectively at that

As the season has gone on and we have a better look at these rookies, no one is really standing out beyond Quickley. All these guys will need patience, but I'm still stoked on Nesmith because I think he'll get it once he has an offseason of pro training in him. Yeah, it sucks we didn't get Halliburton, but we were never going to get Halliburton. Let's see if his shot and comfort on the floor improves in year 2.
I think it's fine to point out Nesmith has been pretty terrible this year. That's all it means though. Way too many rookies have been terrible their 1st year that have gone on to have great NBA careers.
 

HomeRunBaker

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I think it's fine to point out Nesmith has been pretty terrible this year. That's all it means though. Way too many rookies have been terrible their 1st year that have gone on to have great NBA careers.
There is terrible and there is awestruck terrible when one is overwhelmed. Nesmith is the latter. He needs an offseason away from the NBA to improve and get his head on straight more than anyone.

I don’t know why he’s mentioned together with Langford in terms of development as Romeo already showed last year that he can physically compete and now only has to improve certain teachable skills. Nesmith hasn’t shown that he can compete and worse than that I question whether he believes he can.
 

ManicCompression

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I think it's fine to point out Nesmith has been pretty terrible this year. That's all it means though. Way too many rookies have been terrible their 1st year that have gone on to have great NBA careers.
Totally fine to point that out - he's been pretty bad. I don't think we should be hopeless about him since he missed a good chunk of his last college season, didn't get an offseason, no summer league, and hasn't been able to practice like a normal rookie could. I don't think it's a James Young situation where this guy won't even be a rotation player in the league.
 

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NomarsFool

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He's been getting a lot of praise from the announcers for doing the stereotypical "little things". The cynical side of me believes that athletes get lots of praise for doing the little things only when they don't do the big things. But, that said - he does seem like he's been playing some better defense, saving a few possessions with hustle here and there, and if you squint hard you can make yourself believe he is shooting better. I do think he needs to be a little bit more bullish on taking 3s. I feel like every game there's a shot I want him to take where he passed instead.
 

128

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He's been getting a lot of praise from the announcers for doing the stereotypical "little things". The cynical side of me believes that athletes get lots of praise for doing the little things only when they don't do the big things. But, that said - he does seem like he's been playing some better defense, saving a few possessions with hustle here and there, and if you squint hard you can make yourself believe he is shooting better. I do think he needs to be a little bit more bullish on taking 3s. I feel like every game there's a shot I want him to take where he passed instead.
Small sample size, but he's 5 for 10 from 3-point range in his past six appearances. His misses, though, are often terrible.
 

Cesar Crespo

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He's been getting a lot of praise from the announcers for doing the stereotypical "little things". The cynical side of me believes that athletes get lots of praise for doing the little things only when they don't do the big things. But, that said - he does seem like he's been playing some better defense, saving a few possessions with hustle here and there, and if you squint hard you can make yourself believe he is shooting better. I do think he needs to be a little bit more bullish on taking 3s. I feel like every game there's a shot I want him to take where he passed instead.
Often times, basketball players start to do little things and start to hustle when their shots start falling.


This is to say, sometimes they aren't even doing anything differently. Making shots and winning games alter opinions in pretty big ways. See the board a week ago when we were on a 6 game winning streak vs. right now when we are 1-3 in our last 4.

That may not be the case with Nesmith.

Of course, you still have other people arguing that it's a huge surprise when a guy shooting .342 from 3 in 76 attempts hits a 3 pointer.
 

Eddie Jurak

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Career game from Nesmith tonight: 15 points, 9 rebounds, 3 steals, 3 blocks in 31 minutes. And they needed all of that.
 

Cesar Crespo

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This game should earn him some consistent minutes going forward (regular season). Whether it will or not is another matter.

GW and Semi shouldn't play.
 

Cellar-Door

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I think Stevens has handled him well. He was so obviously unready early in the year, Brad gave him sporadic playing time to get his feet wet while learning how to play and it is starting to pay off. I don't think he'll get that many minutes going forward simply because there aren't going to be that many once Smart and Kemba are back (he's still behind the starting 5, plus TT, PP and Fournier and we're almost to the playoffs where it'll be a lot of 8 man rotations. I think he'll split situational minutes with Parker and Grant. If we have an injury he might get a bigger look.
 

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Nesmith was fun tonight. I haven't a clue whether that bodes anything for his future, but it was nice to have something fun going on in a Cs game this season.
 

SteveF

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It's the blocks, steals, rebounds, and some attacking of rim/closeouts that bode well. They mentioned it on the broadcast, but he really is more athletic than maybe the public scouting reports gave credit for. The blocks/steals are especially encouraging given that they are markers of NBA athleticism.
 

chilidawg

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It's the blocks, steals, rebounds, and some attacking of rim/closeouts that bode well. They mentioned it on the broadcast, but he really is more athletic than maybe the public scouting reports gave credit for. The blocks/steals are especially encouraging given that they are markers of NBA athleticism.
And he's long. C's need athleticism, length and shooting, and there's a chance he ticks all those boxes.
 

SeoulSoxFan

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There is terrible and there is awestruck terrible when one is overwhelmed. Nesmith is the latter. He needs an offseason away from the NBA to improve and get his head on straight more than anyone.

I don’t know why he’s mentioned together with Langford in terms of development as Romeo already showed last year that he can physically compete and now only has to improve certain teachable skills. Nesmith hasn’t shown that he can compete and worse than that I question whether he believes he can.
Hopefully tonight's game showed that he's the former. He still needs the off-season but I was really impressed.

Announcers mentioned how he was more athletic than advertised. Even though his game can be quite uncontrolled at times, I think the ceiling is higher than I thought coming into the season.
 
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lovegtm

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This game should earn him some consistent minutes going forward (regular season). Whether it will or not is another matter.

GW and Semi shouldn't play.
Leaving the spacing improvements aside, it's just nice to get a real athlete out there. I've been higher on him than most since I saw how he fixed his "being completely lost issues" from the start of the year, and I think he'll surprise people after he gets a summer to work on his spot-up jumper.

With young players, I think less in terms of "what is their impact right now" and more about "do they have some foundation that can get them on the floor and that they can build on?" Nesmith has the baseline now of being playable on D, while at least drawing some attention from outside. That is an important developmental step.
 

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“I love having him on the floor,” Brown said. “I know he makes mistakes sometimes, but he makes mistakes going 110 percent — and I’ll take that.”