Celtics Plan, Summer 2021

tbb345

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Missed my point. JBJ wasa almost a 6 WAR player at his best. He was a very good player for 5 years. Point is we hope our prosepcrts pan out, and we phrase it in hopeful terms. 'If he shoots.." or "If he hits..." are million dollar (literally for player involved) questions. Just a quirk of sports where we wish out loud. "If our starter puts up zeroes..." "If we force two fumbles..." etc.
I get the overall point but there are (obviously) varying degrees of this.
Nesmith has the pedigree of a good shooter so it’s not complete wish casting to talk about him becoming a shooter.
It’s a very different thing than say “If only Carsten Edwards grows 7 inches in the next month, he could be a real contributor!!!” Or “If Bruno Fernando can become Bruce Bowen like on corner 3’s!”
 

nighthob

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Nope, I have several tricks for remembering uncrackable passwords. My longest one was 29 characters long and I could recite it on a dime. Oh, and this was before it dawned on me that passphrases achieved the same result (boy did I feel like an idiot when I realized that the passphrase I0ncemurdered@m@nforthesheerbl00dyfun0fit was even more secure than W@w1@wtmdgw1p4nsythfc1b@¢0bfu while being easier to remember).
 

Big McCorkle

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Nope, I have several tricks for remembering uncrackable passwords. My longest one was 27 characters long and I could recite it on a dime. Oh, and this was before it dawned on me that passphrases achieved the same result (boy did I feel like an idiot when I realized that the passphrase I0ncemurdered@m@nforthesheerbl00dyfun0fit was as secure W@w1@wtmdgw1p4nsythfc1b@¢0bfu while being easier to remember).
I once used a particularly fun opening line, 41 characters long, of a book I liked as a password. I ended up moving away from it and going to a shorter one because it became a bit of a pain to have to put it in specifically on a phone. It wouldn't have been that bad, but I could never remember if I included the apostrophe in the sentence on a given site, which basically functioned like the inability to ever successfully put in a USB on the first try.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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Nope, I have several tricks for remembering uncrackable passwords. My longest one was 29 characters long and I could recite it on a dime. Oh, and this was before it dawned on me that passphrases achieved the same result (boy did I feel like an idiot when I realized that the passphrase I0ncemurdered@m@nforthesheerbl00dyfun0fit was even more secure than W@w1@wtmdgw1p4nsythfc1b@¢0bfu while being easier to remember).
That's amazing. I usually use Password for my password and keep forgetting it.
 

reggiecleveland

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I get the overall point but there are (obviously) varying degrees of this.
Nesmith has the pedigree of a good shooter so it’s not complete wish casting to talk about him becoming a shooter.
It’s a very different thing than say “If only Carsten Edwards grows 7 inches in the next month, he could be a real contributor!!!” Or “If Bruno Fernando can become Bruce Bowen like on corner 3’s!”
Well somebody gave the example of Devers, who hit from day 1 in MLB. But, nothing is guaranteed.
I have stolen this analysis but if either he or Romeo pan out Cs are in very good shape. If both hit they are top 3 in east team.
 

nighthob

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I once used a particularly fun opening line, 41 characters long, of a book I liked as a password. I ended up moving away from it and going to a shorter one because it became a bit of a pain to have to put it in specifically on a phone. It wouldn't have been that bad, but I could never remember if I included the apostrophe in the sentence on a given site, which basically functioned like the inability to ever successfully put in a USB on the first try.
That's amazing. I usually use Password for my password and keep forgetting it.
That second password was the first character of each word of the opening stanza of Tom Traubert’s Blues with the letters replaced with numbers or characters where possible. Made it easy to generate long password strings that could never be cracked. Then one day while humming along to The Piano’s Been Drinking I realized that its actual verses comprised a pretty uncrackable passphrase.
 

benhogan

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Begarin, Madar, Tacko or any other rumors for the 2nd 2-way?

I'd lean towards Tacko or another young Center, for a break the glass in case of emergency 5
 

Smokey Joe

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Begarin, Madar, Tacko or any other rumors for the 2nd 2-way?

I'd lean towards Tacko or another young Center, for a break the glass in case of emergency 5
Hmmm…. We have TL, Al, Enes, Bruno and Grant. I think i’d vote for a guard/forward.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Begarin, Madar, Tacko or any other rumors for the 2nd 2-way?

I'd lean towards Tacko or another young Center, for a break the glass in case of emergency 5
We’ve seemingly cut ties with Tacko as he isn’t at LVSL or there working out with the team. I doubt anyone picks him up after how he looked last year in spare minutes.
 

benhogan

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We’ve seemingly cut ties with Tacko as he isn’t at LVSL or there working out with the team. I doubt anyone picks him up after how he looked last year in spare minutes.
I'm surprised, with their penchant for BIGs, Orlando didn't bring home Tacko to sell tickets to a season of tankers delight.

If anyone could cash in on him it would be those carnival barkers at Disney
 

HomeRunBaker

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FWIW, I saw Tacko with Jaylen Brown at an early SL game
Being there is one thing. I’m reading between the lines in that a two-way player has never been on that deal for a 3rd season since the league began the program, the Celtics failed to offer him a qualifying offer, and there have been no reports or sights of him working out with the Celtics out in Vegas. There isn’t a more obvious way to cut ties with a player than these actions without making an announcement which is the identical action that the Celtics made with Waters.
 

Cellar-Door

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Karalis makes no sense. Using cap space was dead as soon as they extended Smart. They created a TPE because with the Smart extension they were likely never going under the cap for the next 4 years, so a TPE is much more useful than a 2nd
 

lexrageorge

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Karalis makes no sense. Using cap space was dead as soon as they extended Smart. They created a TPE because with the Smart extension they were likely never going under the cap for the next 4 years, so a TPE is much more useful than a 2nd
Plus a TPE, like any exception, can easily be renounced.
 

Eddie Jurak

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Karalis makes no sense. Using cap space was dead as soon as they extended Smart. They created a TPE because with the Smart extension they were likely never going under the cap for the next 4 years, so a TPE is much more useful than a 2nd
Not quite dead. They could have shoveled Smart off for some expiring deals during next season.
 

Cellar-Door

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Not quite dead. They could have shoveled Smart off for some expiring deals during next season.
Sure, but they can still do that and renounce the TPE. The point was, the already unlikely scenario of gutting the roster for cap space became more unlikely, and accordingly a TPE more attractive and a late 2nd less.
 

Cesar Crespo

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Is that normally how these things work? The team signing the player gets draft picks? Did I miss something besides the TPE going back to the C's?

I get the picks are just nominal.
 

Eddie Jurak

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Is that normally how these things work? The team signing the player gets draft picks? Did I miss something besides the TPE going back to the C's?

I get the picks are just nominal.
I think it is like any other deal. Here, Brooklyn needed a small (but real) incentive because they would otherwise have just signed Fournier as a free agent.
 

lexrageorge

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Is that normally how these things work? The team signing the player gets draft picks? Did I miss something besides the TPE going back to the C's?

I get the picks are just nominal.
Yes. Same happened for Kemba (incoming) and Hayward (outgoing).

The team signing the player in a sign-and-trade becomes hard-capped. Given that the Knicks had enough space to sign Fournier outright, the only way it would make sense for them to make it a S&T was to gain an asset that they would otherwise not get, in this case a 2nd rounder (the other pick may never convey). Being hard-capped is not that big of an issue for the Knicks this season.
 

PedroKsBambino

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I think what it means in a practical sense is:

1) Unsurprisingly, they are choosing to operate as an over-the-cap team going forward
2) They are conceptually willing to go into luxury tax in a material way (otherwise, not worth giving up even the small assets they did to get the TPE)
3) Hollinger points out that this is likely most useful next summer, when they will be $25 mil from the tax line.

They may not use all the exceptions they have, especially if you consider Horford's semi-expiring deal (because of lower guaranteed money next year) effectively one as well, but it is quite nice to have that $17 mil one available for the next year.
 

benhogan

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They will be in GFIN, at the latest, next Summer. Fournier/Kemba/TT TPEs help with that. Luxury tax here we come during the JAYS prime.

Also gives the C's the optionality to use TPEs at the trade deadline if things break the Celtics way the first half of the season.

Don't fall in love with anyone on the C's roster other than Tatum/Brown
They have Madar/Begarin washing up on shore next year so I'm expecting a massive draft pick deal in the next 11mths.
 

Jimbodandy

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I think what it means in a practical sense is:

1) Unsurprisingly, they are choosing to operate as an over-the-cap team going forward
2) They are conceptually willing to go into luxury tax in a material way (otherwise, not worth giving up even the small assets they did to get the TPE)
3) Hollinger points out that this is likely most useful next summer, when they will be $25 mil from the tax line.

They may not use all the exceptions they have, especially if you consider Horford's semi-expiring deal (because of lower guaranteed money next year) effectively one as well, but it is quite nice to have that $17 mil one available for the next year.
Not gonna lie--I won't miss our forum's brief flirtation with "OMG Wyc is cheaping out" talk during the signings. It was getting a little Felger in here.
 

Cellar-Door

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Not gonna lie--I won't miss our forum's brief flirtation with "OMG Wyc is cheaping out" talk during the signings. It was getting a little Felger in here.
A lot of that was precipitated by a story that the Celtics weren't going to use the MLE because of a dictate not to spend money. Ended up being false, (or it was a dictate not to spend unless you get a bargain and Schroder changed the plan).
 

nighthob

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They will be in GFIN, at the latest, next Summer. Fournier/Kemba/TT TPEs help with that. Luxury tax here we come during the JAYS prime.

Also gives the C's the optionality to use TPEs at the trade deadline if things break the Celtics way the first half of the season.

Don't fall in love with anyone on the C's roster other than Tatum/Brown
They have Madar/Begarin washing up on shore next year so I'm expecting a massive draft pick deal in the next 11mths.
Another thing this opens up is the possibility of adding the next expiring deal that comes along to be bundled into the package for a disgruntled star. And hopefully the disgruntled star keeps the Jay-Crew gruntled.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Another thing this opens up is the possibility of adding the next expiring deal that comes along to be bundled into the package for a disgruntled star. And hopefully the disgruntled star keeps the Jay-Crew gruntled.
Would another disgruntled player suddenly make Schroder less gruntled or would they gruntle together, and as Rocco used to say, then they breed. So one more disgruntled could pair with Schroder to create more disgruntledness unless the new disgruntled makes Schroder less disgruntled in which case everything would work out swell.
 

lovegtm

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The TPEs are nice in the scenario where a trade for a star involves a combo of Richardson/Smart/Horford to match salaries. You still have the ability to fill in high-level role players with the TPEs at that point, although obviously you'd be deep in the tax.

17M/9M TPEs don't help you much at the wing, but they're great for filling in the center and guard spots.
 

NomarsFool

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I think it was Hardwood Houdini was talking about how the Celtics should lock up Romeo Langford to a long-term contract.

I thought this was a bit curious, as we've yet to see whether he is really an NBA caliber player yet, but second - CAN he even get an extension at this point? I thought that would be next summer?
 

nighthob

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Yeah, he’s only been in the league for two seasons, so any extension to his rookie deal comes next summer.
 

benhogan

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Predictably, Aldridge (mainstream NBA media) doesn't think much of the Celtics off-season.

https://theathletic.com/2774953/2021/08/23/from-timberwolves-to-cavaliers-no-30-21-ranking-the-nbas-worst-offseason-moves-by-team/?source=dailyemail&campaign=601983

The Cs reshuffled the cards, bringing Horford back, and moving on from Walker after just two seasons. Taking a no-risk flier on Schröder is fine, as is flipping Thompson for depth. Boston also has multiple TPEs in its pocket, including a $17 million one in what became a sign-and-trade for Fournier. Using any of them could definitely swing the offseason in a more positive direction. But while Boston obviously hit on Jayson Tatum and Brown, the Celtics have burned through the rest of those extra firsts from Brooklyn and Philly. Smart and Richardson, coming off a disappointing year in Dallas, look to be the starting backcourt. Does anyone think that core is better than the Bucks or Nets or 76ers? Payton Pritchard, Aaron Nesmith and Romeo Langford could improve; Pritchard played great in Vegas this year. But that’s a lot of hoping. Boston also is taking a big swing at replacing Ainge, who built a championship team, with Stevens — who’s smart and hardworking, but who has never done this before. Similarly, while Udoka is definitely ready for a head coach job, there will be those growing pains. There’s a lot of flux.
 

BigSoxFan

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Predictably, Aldridge (mainstream NBA media) doesn't think much of the Celtics off-season.

https://theathletic.com/2774953/2021/08/23/from-timberwolves-to-cavaliers-no-30-21-ranking-the-nbas-worst-offseason-moves-by-team/?source=dailyemail&campaign=601983

The Cs reshuffled the cards, bringing Horford back, and moving on from Walker after just two seasons. Taking a no-risk flier on Schröder is fine, as is flipping Thompson for depth. Boston also has multiple TPEs in its pocket, including a $17 million one in what became a sign-and-trade for Fournier. Using any of them could definitely swing the offseason in a more positive direction. But while Boston obviously hit on Jayson Tatum and Brown, the Celtics have burned through the rest of those extra firsts from Brooklyn and Philly. Smart and Richardson, coming off a disappointing year in Dallas, look to be the starting backcourt. Does anyone think that core is better than the Bucks or Nets or 76ers? Payton Pritchard, Aaron Nesmith and Romeo Langford could improve; Pritchard played great in Vegas this year. But that’s a lot of hoping. Boston also is taking a big swing at replacing Ainge, who built a championship team, with Stevens — who’s smart and hardworking, but who has never done this before. Similarly, while Udoka is definitely ready for a head coach job, there will be those growing pains. There’s a lot of flux.
This write up doesn't even make sense. The Celtics didn't burn through the rest of those extra firsts. The first one they got was James Young who was a mid-1st so obviously that was a miss (where most picks are missed) but then they traded the last one for Kyrie, a move that sucks now with hindsight but was perfectly reasonable. And then they got moderately unlucky with where the Sac and Mem picks landed. Jury is still out on those returns but they never had great options with either pick due to the pick location.

I don't think anyone thinks that the Celtics' core is better than the Bucks or Nets but the 76ers have their own issues with Simmons right now. End of the day, the Celtics were never going to have a big 2021 summer so you'd think that would have been acknowledged by someone who's supposedly paying attention. But the big point is that they now have flexibility for a major move, which, again, the writers aren't acknowledging. All things considered, Brad had a very good summer, IMO.