Can Love Be a Centerpiece of a Champion?

[Brickowski]

ETOs are only available after year four of a deal.
 
So if you're trading for him with the idea he's signing here next summer, you're getting a minimum of 5 years out of him.

Yes, but with a veteran extension (max 4 year deal) he can get a player option after the third year, which amounts to the same thing. See Coon's FAQ #58. But yes, you'll get a minimum of 4 years out of him assuming he signs an extension of some sort.

Let me add that the Chinese fire drill starts when the player says he intends to exercise his ETO (or decline his player option), not when the event actually occurs.

 

[Stitch01]

Isn't Love not technically signing an extension so that section of the FAQ doesn't cover what will happen with Love? I'm far from a CBA expert so correct me if I'm wrong.

EDIT: you edited your post so will read that section now

 

[mcpickl]

Yes, but with a veteran extension (max 4 year deal) he can get a player option after the third year, which amounts to the same thing. See Coon's FAQ #58. But yes, you'll get a minimum of 4 years out of him assuming he signs an extension of some sort.

He's not signing a veteran extension. He's signing as a free agent next summer.
 
Also, even in that case, a player option(not an ETO), can only be a one year player option. Couldn't wipe out multiple years, only the last one.
 
So, not the same thing. At all.

 

[Brickowski]

He's not signing a veteran extension. He's signing as a free agent next summer.
 
Also, even in that case, a player option(not an ETO), can only be a one year player option. Couldn't wipe out multiple years, only the last one.
 
So, not the same thing. At all.

Sure it is. If an ETO can't be exercised until the end of year 4, and the max contract length under the new CBA is 5 years, an ETO can't wipe out multiple years either.

 

[mcpickl]

Sure it is. If an ETO can't be exercised until the end of year 4, and the max contract length under the new CBA is 5 years, an ETO can't wipe out multiple years either.

No, because if he signed a veteran extension as you said, it's a two year extension maximum. Player option would come in summer of 2017.
 
ETO in a free agent deal for him signed next summer would come in summer of 2019.
 
Locking up five years of service instead of three. That's pretty different, no?

 

[Brickowski]

I believe a veterans extension is 4 years maximum, although the current year counts as one of them. See Coon's FAQ #59. So if Love signs a veterans extension before June 30, 2015, he could have a player option exercisable after June 30, 2017.

 

[Grin&MartyBarret]

I believe a veterans extension is 4 years maximum, although the current year counts as one of them. See Coon's FAQ #59. So if Love signs a veterans extension before June 30, 2015, he could have a player option exercisable after June 30, 2017.

Since Love has two years remaining (including the option), he could extend for an additional two years. But, as stated before, he's not gonna do that. That gives him a 7.5 percent raise on his current salary. Opting out gets him 30% of the cap.

As an aside, another argument in favor of acquiring the "star" sooner rather than later is that the cap's increasing substantially in the next two years. A trade for Love now means paying him 30% of the 63 million cap. A trade or free agency signing a year or two later means paying somebody 30% of 68 or 73 million. Locking in a max deal earlier while the cap rises is obviously beneficial.

 

[moly99]

Further, then celtics would not be 'trading the house'. They would still have a shitload of assets to build the rest of the team around him OVER THE NEXT TWO YEARS.

 
I don't think they have enough assets to land another star and a full roster of role players. I suppose that's where the argument comes from.
 
Other than the #6 pick, what valuable assets do we have?
 
Put yourself in the shoes of a fan of a rival team. What star player would you want to give up in exchange trade for Kelly Olynyk, Jeff Green and the Clippers pick? I might trade Asik for that if I were a Houston fan, but even that's stretching it.

 

[Cellar-Door]

 
I don't think they have enough assets to land another star and a full roster of role players. I suppose that's where the argument comes from.
 
Other than the #6 pick, what valuable assets do we have?
 
Put yourself in the shoes of a fan of a rival team. What star player would you want to give up in exchange trade for Kelly Olynyk, Jeff Green and the Clippers pick? I might trade Asik for that if I were a Houston fan, but even that's stretching it.

Asik could probably be had for the Clippers pick and eating his salary in the TPE.
On the whole it depends what picks go out in the Love deal. The unprotected Nets picks have value, and Rondo probably has value. Green makes more sense to keep if you are going for it.

 

[moly99]

Houston needs to address their backcourt and needs cap space to do it. As stated many many times here, Asik can almost certainly he had for the TE and nothing else - at most the 76ers pick that is likely to end up a second rounder. Asik is redundant with Howard there. Morey will dump him to anyone that will take the $.

 
If you were a Rockets fan wouldn't you be furious if they did that?
 
Asik's deal expires after next season. There's no need to move him just to dump salary.
 

As to other assets, they have a shitload of draft picks, attractive players, expiring deals and cap space coming up. They don't need to have enough to trade get another "star" to go with Love. Not everyone needs a "big 3", especially in the east and once Love is here, THEN you can talk about FAs wanting to come to Boston.

 
The incoming draft picks are likely going to be chaff.
 
Draft Pick Debt - Incoming
2015 Sixers: turns into two second round picks if pick falls 1-15
2015 Clippers: won't be a lottery pick unless Blake Griffin or Chris Paul blow out a knee
2016 Nets: Nets will do their best to buy their way into the playoffs
2017 Nets (swap): see above
2018 Nets: see above
 
Players
Rajon Rondo: supply of point guards now exceeds demand, and he is going to demand an extension that overpays him
Jeff Green: overpaid
Jared Sullinger: role player/poor starter
Kelly Olynyk: role player
Vitor Faverani: role player
Phil Pressey: might not belong in NBA
+Gerald Wallace, Brandon Bass, Keith Bogans, Joel Anthony, etc
 
We have a lot of low value assets, but the #6 pick is the only blue chip asset.

 

[Grin&MartyBarret]

 
If you were a Rockets fan wouldn't you be furious if they did that?
 
Asik's deal expires after next season. There's no need to move him just to dump salary.
 
 
The incoming draft picks are likely going to be chaff.
 
Draft Pick Debt - Incoming
2015 Sixers: turns into two second round picks if pick falls 1-15
2015 Clippers: won't be a lottery pick unless Blake Griffin or Chris Paul blow out a knee
2016 Nets: Nets will do their best to buy their way into the playoffs
2017 Nets (swap): see above
2018 Nets: see above
 
Players
Rajon Rondo: supply of point guards now exceeds demand, and he is going to demand an extension that overpays him
Jeff Green: overpaid
Jared Sullinger: role player/poor starter
Kelly Olynyk: role player
Vitor Faverani: role player
Phil Pressey: might not belong in NBA
+Gerald Wallace, Brandon Bass, Keith Bogans, Joel Anthony, etc
 
We have a lot of low value assets, but the #6 pick is the only blue chip asset.

 
You have literally no idea what those Nets picks will be worth. The best you can do at speculating is to say that the Nets--a team that's currently for sale--will "likely buy their way into the playoffs." Meanwhile, they have a point guard who just had surgery on both of his ankles locked up to a huge deal, a young center on a max contract with foot issues, and a bunch of expensive 30-something players. Additionally, you didn't mention any of the Celtics own picks.
 
And off the top of my head, in the last couple of years, lottery protected first round picks have been used to acquire guys like Loul Deng, Kyle Lowry, Jrue Holiday, Marcin Gortat, and Andre Iguodala. Those picks, whether the Nets buy their way into the playoffs or not, have plenty of value.

 

[bowiac]

If you were a Rockets fan wouldn't you be furious if they did that?

I'm mostly a Rockets fan, and answer is "no". I think getting rid of his salary and cap room is its own reward if Morey doesn't think he can get anything better.

 

[Grin&MartyBarret]

The Brooklyn Nets are currently for sale?

 
I learned that here, yesterday. That may have been overstated, but somebody definitely provided a link to that end.

 

[Cellar-Door]

Re: Asik, the rumors suggest that the C's have offered Green and a draft pick. Is it realistic that the Rockets just give him away?

If they need the space, they'll move him for just a pick (they'll need to know they have a guy already).
They will get a pick from someone for him.
If they don't have a player lined up they probably just keep him for this last year.

 

[moly99]

 
You have literally no idea what those Nets picks will be worth. The best you can do at speculating is to say that the Nets--a team that's currently for sale--will "likely buy their way into the playoffs." Meanwhile, they have a point guard who just had surgery on both of his ankles locked up to a huge deal, a young center on a max contract with foot issues, and a bunch of expensive 30-something players.

 
We don't know for certain what range they will fall in, but it's extremely unlikely any of the three will end up being a top 6 (the range where all stars are typically drafted.) The Celtics were tanking and without their best player due to injury for most of the year and still ended up slotted sixth. The Nets will have no incentive to tank, so they will likely manage to be mediocre rather than god awful.
 
I didn't mention our own picks because their value depends on which direction the team is headed. If we trade for Love, Asik, etc then the Celtics should make the playoffs and the picks won't be worth much. They are only very valuable if we continue to be one of the worst teams in the league.
 

I'm mostly a Rockets fan, and answer is "no". I think getting rid of his salary and cap room is its own reward if Morey doesn't think he can get anything better.

 
The contract expires in 2015 and he will be worth the money next year. If they dump him for nothing I think Rockets fans will deservedly be upset.

 

[PedroKsBambino]

 
The contract expires in 2015 and he will be worth the money next year. If they dump him for nothing I think Rockets fans will deservedly be upset.

 
He wasn't worth the money this past year, and Howard isn't going anywhere, so I don't think one can assume he'll be worth the money next year.   I think he has positive value, but so does cap space for them (at least, potentially) and he's not such a significant asset that there'll be a bidding war for him; if he were, he'd have been gone at the trade deadline this past year.

 

[Stitch01]

 
I don't think they have enough assets to land another star and a full roster of role players. I suppose that's where the argument comes from.
 
Other than the #6 pick, what valuable assets do we have?
 
Put yourself in the shoes of a fan of a rival team. What star player would you want to give up in exchange trade for Kelly Olynyk, Jeff Green and the Clippers pick? I might trade Asik for that if I were a Houston fan, but even that's stretching it.

If every asset besides the six pick sucks, we're pretty much fucked no matter what. 

 

[moly99]

It's not a question of sucking, but rather that the draft picks we are getting from other teams are not expected to yield all star level players.
 
The pick from the Sixers will probably end up being two projects in the second round. There's some value to that. But I don't see why other teams would be lining up to give us premier assets in exchange for that, or for the right to overpay Rondo in a trade and extension.
 
If we signed Kevin Love in free agency then all those picks would be useful as cheap roster fillers, since draft picks usually outperform their contract values. I just can't see the Pistons trading us Andre Drummond (or any other team giving up a promising young player) for two picks at the end of the first round.
 

 
He wasn't worth the money this past year, and Howard isn't going anywhere, so I don't think one can assume he'll be worth the money next year.   I think he has positive value, but so does cap space for them (at least, potentially) and he's not such a significant asset that there'll be a bidding war for him; if he were, he'd have been gone at the trade deadline this past year.

 
He is worth the money to any team that needs a center to anchor their defense. Which would be the case for any team that would be trading for him.
 
There's no question they were asking too much for him last year, but there's a lot of room between asking for too much and dumping him for nothing.

 

[swingin val]

There is also the difference of trading a guy mideseason when you have playoff aspirations compared to trading him in the off season when other moves can more easily be made.

 

[jon abbey]

The Brooklyn Nets are currently for sale?

 
Prokhorov said that he was just trying to gauge the worth of his team in the wake of the immense Clippers sale, FWIW.

 

[HomeRunBaker]

 
Prokhorov said that he was just trying to gauge the worth of his team in the wake of the immense Clippers sale, FWIW.

He paid $223m(?) just four years ago.....what a financial beast this league has become and the brand is only getting stronger worldwide.