Byerie Irving? Do you want Kyrie back?

What are your thoughts on Kyrie?

  • I want him back on max deal no matter what

    Votes: 60 19.5%
  • I want him back on max deal ONLY if AD is also coming

    Votes: 85 27.7%
  • I’m done with him and don’t want him back under any circumstances

    Votes: 108 35.2%
  • Not sure - I want to see how the playoffs go first

    Votes: 54 17.6%

  • Total voters
    307

ehaz

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Not a good look for the non-Kyrie guys.

Blame Kyrie? It’s not that simple, Boston - Jackie MacMullan.

On Jan. 9, the Celtics blitzed the Indiana Pacers at home, then flew out that night to Miami, arriving at the team hotel after 2 a.m. on Thursday. Boston was set to play the Miami Heat that night, but, team sources said, that didn't stop some of the young players from heading to South Beach, where the clubs stay open well past 5 a.m. It's not uncommon for NBA players to go out when they're on the road, but Irving was irked teammates decided to do it in the middle of back-to-back games.
The Celtics ended up submitting a lackluster effort in a 115-99 drubbing at the hands of the Heat.
During a timeout in that game, a testy exchange between Brown and veteran Marcus Morris, who was angered that Brown didn't hustle back on the defensive end, was captured on video. Morris admonished Brown to "play harder" and shoved him before Marcus Smartquickly intervened.
Reporters clamored to ask Irving about it after the game, but he had disappeared. After nearly 30 minutes, he was found shooting baskets on Miami's practice court, hoping some of his teammates who had played so poorly might join him.
None of them did.
By the time Irving returned to answer media questions, most of his teammates were gone. Asked to explain why he felt compelled to engage in the postgame session, Irving said, "I just wanted to feel good going into the next game. We're staying over in Miami, so I'd rather be in here than be out in Miami right now."
 

nolasoxfan

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Also from MacMullan -

"At the completion of the regular season, #Celtics set up 100 balls for charitable partners. Everyone signed them except Kyrie Irving. Pressed to do it, say sources, he was neither aggressive nor confrontational. He merely said, "No, I'm not interested in that."

Short of five broken fingers on his writing hand, there is no excuse for refusing that request.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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Also from that article: "It wasn't just him," says former Celtic Cedric Maxwell, the team's radio analyst. "This group was the most dysfunctional team I've seen since 1983, when we had four Hall of Famers on our roster and got swept by the Milwaukee Bucks. These guys never found a way to be on the same page."

I was curious about this, so I did a little bit of digging back to the 82-83 Cs and found this, which in some ways sounds very familiar: https://www.si.com/vault/1983/05/02/619614/the-celtics-fight-for-survival. HRB of all people should like the article.
 

The Social Chair

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That article does a great job of pointing out how much Stevens played a part in the team's underachieving season. Stevens is developing a reputation around the league for being a poor communicator and not establishing consistent roles for his players.

Sean Deveney wrote:

A veteran player told me a couple of years ago that his role in Boston was tough because he was never really told what was expected of him and that Stevens didn’t necessarily connect with players. That appeared to be the case this season, too, when the Celtics had a chemistry meltdown and Stevens could not rein in his locker room.

One agent told me, “Most players don’t need their hands held, but they want to know where they stand and what they need to do. That’s not always coming from Stevens and it can be frustrating.”
 

lexrageorge

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The night out in Miami is definitely a bad look, as it was in the middle of a back-to-back during which the team was struggling.

It's not surprising that there's some blame to go all around. There usually is in these cases. But Kyrie does own part of the problem as well. And, had he given his commitment to Ainge, some of the players he had issues with would have been off the roster by next season.

While Stevens shares part of the blame as well, I'm not quite jumping on the hot take bandwagon about his reputation around the league. He will, however, be under a bit of a microscope this coming season no matter how the offseason pans out. If there are still issues with Tatum and Brown next season and the team is underperforming, fans and media could get a bit restless. Tatum's development, in particular, will be something on which Stevens will be judged next season.
 

Captaincoop

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Also from that article: "It wasn't just him," says former Celtic Cedric Maxwell, the team's radio analyst. "This group was the most dysfunctional team I've seen since 1983, when we had four Hall of Famers on our roster and got swept by the Milwaukee Bucks. These guys never found a way to be on the same page."

I was curious about this, so I did a little bit of digging back to the 82-83 Cs and found this, which in some ways sounds very familiar: https://www.si.com/vault/1983/05/02/619614/the-celtics-fight-for-survival. HRB of all people should like the article.
Remember after that season, when Larry Bird refused to speak to Red Auerbach and then teamed up with Sidney Moncrief to join the Nets as free agents? Oh, wait...
 

lexrageorge

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Also from that article: "It wasn't just him," says former Celtic Cedric Maxwell, the team's radio analyst. "This group was the most dysfunctional team I've seen since 1983, when we had four Hall of Famers on our roster and got swept by the Milwaukee Bucks. These guys never found a way to be on the same page."

I was curious about this, so I did a little bit of digging back to the 82-83 Cs and found this, which in some ways sounds very familiar: https://www.si.com/vault/1983/05/02/619614/the-celtics-fight-for-survival. HRB of all people should like the article.
What's interesting is that the big change on the player side after that playoff embarrassment was to trade a popular backup center to bring in a player widely known around the league as a bit of a malcontent and somewhat selfish player.
 

tbb345

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The night out in Miami is definitely a bad look, as it was in the middle of a back-to-back during which the team was struggling.

It's not surprising that there's some blame to go all around. There usually is in these cases. But Kyrie does own part of the problem as well. And, had he given his commitment to Ainge, some of the players he had issues with would have been off the roster by next season.

While Stevens shares part of the blame as well, I'm not quite jumping on the hot take bandwagon about his reputation around the league. He will, however, be under a bit of a microscope this coming season no matter how the offseason pans out. If there are still issues with Tatum and Brown next season and the team is underperforming, fans and media could get a bit restless. Tatum's development, in particular, will be something on which Stevens will be judged next season.
The feeling I got when reading that article was that Jackie Mac didn't want to turn the column into what would be considered a "Kyrie smear campaign" and included some transgressions from other players (that probably wouldn't even make the top 20 list for Kyrie) to balance it out. Also, as is the case with everything in life, failures can't be pinned on solely one person even if they were the main cause.

The young guys going out is definitely a bad look but I have a feeling that is incredibly common in the NBA. A self professed "leader" calling out his teammates in the media all the time, criticizing his coach's strategy and game plan multiple times all while talking about how smart he is and how much he knows about winning.....that's very rare and definitely can sink a team.
 

luckiestman

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The feeling I got when reading that article was that Jackie Mac didn't want to turn the column into what would be considered a "Kyrie smear campaign" and included some transgressions from other players (that probably wouldn't even make the top 20 list for Kyrie) to balance it out. Also, as is the case with everything in life, failures can't be pinned on solely one person even if they were the main cause.

The young guys going out is definitely a bad look but I have a feeling that is incredibly common in the NBA. A self professed "leader" calling out his teammates in the media all the time, criticizing his coach's strategy and game plan multiple times all while talking about how smart he is and how much he knows about winning.....that's very rare and definitely can sink a team.

The kids were out until 5am? BFD. The game is at 7pm.
 

lexrageorge

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It's less that the kids were out on a road trip. It's that they were out in the middle of a back-to-back at a critical stretch of the season. And they ended up losing on the road to a team that is not very good, which kicked off a 3 game losing streak.
 

OurF'ingCity

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Sounds like it was kind of a snowball effect, with Kyrie and the rest of the team just increasingly growing further apart as Kyrie brought his complaints to the media which in turn probably caused the other guys to think "fuck this I don't need to what Kyrie says" and possibly even going out/doing other stuff specifically to spite Kyrie.

Honestly, this really is a black mark on Stevens, IMO - these are precisely the situations where the coach is supposed to step in and resolve the situation. If Stevens thought the guys going out until 5 am the night before a game was unhelpful, he should benched some of their asses or at least told them he would do so if they ever did that again. If Stevens didn't think that was a big issue, he should have called Kyrie into his office and told him to stop pouting, get over it, and stop obliquely complaining to the media. I guess it's possible Stevens did do one or both of those things, but then that means the players just straight-up ignored him, which is even worse.
 

Nick Kaufman

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It's pretty hard to find the positive spin for Stevens, because a. He doesn't need it as his job is safe and b. Because he has chosen to accept reponsibility for the whole mess, which is to his credit.
 

Cellar-Door

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Sounds like it was kind of a snowball effect, with Kyrie and the rest of the team just increasingly growing further apart as Kyrie brought his complaints to the media which in turn probably caused the other guys to think "fuck this I don't need to what Kyrie says" and possibly even going out/doing other stuff specifically to spite Kyrie.

Honestly, this really is a black mark on Stevens, IMO - these are precisely the situations where the coach is supposed to step in and resolve the situation. If Stevens thought the guys going out until 5 am the night before a game was unhelpful, he should benched some of their asses or at least told them he would do so if they ever did that again. If Stevens didn't think that was a big issue, he should have called Kyrie into his office and told him to stop pouting, get over it, and stop obliquely complaining to the media. I guess it's possible Stevens did do one or both of those things, but then that means the players just straight-up ignored him, which is even worse.
I think the idea that coaches truly have much control in an NBA lockerroom is pretty outdated. Players have immense power, and it's not a coincidence that when you hear guys talk about the lockerroom they talk about the vets or the stars setting the tone. The idea of the dictatorial coach as behavior modifier is decades out of date, perhaps the GM can use fines to impose some order, but teams generally police themselves.
 

ifmanis5

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Good article by Jackie Mac. I remember that Miami game and how disappointing their effort level was but the team had already mailed in so many games it seemed like just one more. I also think that Kyrie not being on the bench for Game 7 of the ECF was a huge red flag and planted a seed of discontent that never really healed.
 

bankshot1

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I can only imagine the conversations between Brad and Danny re KI issues (finger-pointing etc) and with the importance of KI to the KI/AD equation, Danny telling Brad to deal with the PitA as best he could.
 

luckiestman

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Is the fact Kyrie didn’t work out sad? Yes.

But the Celtics finally have a true public enemy number one who i cannot wait to boo, slander, chirp and destroy for the rest of his career.
 

benhogan

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Is the fact Kyrie didn’t work out sad? Yes.

But the Celtics finally have a true public enemy number one who i cannot wait to boo, slander, chirp and destroy for the rest of his career.
will they show Kyrie's Celtic Video Tribute pre-game or after Q1?
 

BigSoxFan

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You don't like "hating" the Yankees? Or booing Clemens when he left?
Yeah. Booing is basically part of sports. Having a villain gets the crowd louder and makes the atmosphere that much more dynamic. Nothing better than NBA drama.
 

Eddie Jurak

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What's interesting is that the big change on the player side after that playoff embarrassment was to trade a popular backup center to bring in a player widely known around the league as a bit of a malcontent and somewhat selfish player.
Because the popular backup center in question was Larry Bird's drinking buddy.
 

snowmanny

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What's interesting is that the big change on the player side after that playoff embarrassment was to trade a popular backup center to bring in a player widely known around the league as a bit of a malcontent and somewhat selfish player.
That off-season, when Red signed the Knicks starting lineup (ok, just three of them) to offer sheets in order to screw up their plans to sign McHale, was awesome.

If Cleveland hadn’t grabbed Hinson with their bonus pick in the draft right in front of the Celtics (who took Kite) it would have been even better.

Red fires the coach brings in his guty then tries to fight Malone in pre-season. And in the end they win it all.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Short of five broken fingers on his writing hand, there is no excuse for refusing that request.
Sadly, the black market of sports memorabilia force some athletes to think twice knowing that someone unscrupulous is likely to be the financial beneficiary of their goodwill. This is why we can’t have nice things.


I think the idea that coaches truly have much control in an NBA lockerroom is pretty outdated. Players have immense power, and it's not a coincidence that when you hear guys talk about the lockerroom they talk about the vets or the stars setting the tone. The idea of the dictatorial coach as behavior modifier is decades out of date, perhaps the GM can use fines to impose some order, but teams generally police themselves.
I’ve been saying this for ages and it’s more true now than ever. I’ll include crediting/discredit a head coach for “player development” (both successful and unsuccessful) as well. A young player can and will learn things from any superior but most of their work is done with Assistant Coaches, the teams trainers and their own trainers.....but nothing is as important as what a player learns from their veteran teammates both on and off the court along with their own commitment to developing. This goes for every level past 6th grade.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Also from that article: "It wasn't just him," says former Celtic Cedric Maxwell, the team's radio analyst. "This group was the most dysfunctional team I've seen since 1983, when we had four Hall of Famers on our roster and got swept by the Milwaukee Bucks. These guys never found a way to be on the same page."

I was curious about this, so I did a little bit of digging back to the 82-83 Cs and found this, which in some ways sounds very familiar: https://www.si.com/vault/1983/05/02/619614/the-celtics-fight-for-survival. HRB of all people should like the article.
Thanks for finding. Yes, hearing some of those names and stories brought back memories. Fans who saw Tiny here witnessed a player who was competent but still a shell of his former physical self from his Kansas City-Omaha Kings days playing under Cousy. I also remember scrambling for info through my old copies of The Sporting News to learn more about our 1st round draft pick future superstar......Darren Tillis out of Cleveland State (this was prior to the Mackey/Papile years).

I love this paragraph and especially how Player X appreciates the finer details of the game with his Xerox line. LOL!

Not that Fitch totally abandoned his biting manner. "The man has a lot of good things to say, he just has some awful ways of saying them," says one Celtic. "You can only call someone dumb or stupid for so long." Adds another, "Everyone rebels in his own little way. I can't get into someone yelling about why I didn't get over a double pick. I wonder if someone in a normal business gets yelled at for not getting over to the Xerox machine the right way." Says McHale, who isn't as obsessed with basketball as Fitch might like, "I long for the day when something I do out on a basketball court affects Wall Street."
 

Caspir

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Short of five broken fingers on his writing hand, there is no excuse for refusing that request.
Sure there is. He didn't want to. His job is to play basketball, not practice cursive. It's entirely his decision whether or not to autograph a bunch of basketballs or not.
 

Mugsy's Jock

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Sure there is. He didn't want to. His job is to play basketball, not practice cursive. It's entirely his decision whether or not to autograph a bunch of basketballs or not.
Nah, being a member of an NBA team and cashing that big check brings responsibilities beyond playing the game. Talking to the media, showing up for team pictures, participating in team events.

I'm not saying he'd win a suit over it in a court of law, but c'mon...
 

bosockboy

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Nah, being a member of an NBA team and cashing that big check brings responsibilities beyond playing the game. Talking to the media, showing up for team pictures, participating in team events.

I'm not saying he'd win a suit over it in a court of law, but c'mon...
Particularly someone who desperately wanted to become an alpha superstar.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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Thanks for finding. Yes, hearing some of those names and stories brought back memories. Fans who saw Tiny here witnessed a player who was competent but still a shell of his former physical self from his Kansas City-Omaha Kings days playing under Cousy. I also remember scrambling for info through my old copies of The Sporting News to learn more about our 1st round draft pick future superstar......Darren Tillis out of Cleveland State (this was prior to the Mackey/Papile years).

I love this paragraph and especially how Player X appreciates the finer details of the game with his Xerox line. LOL!
Lots of great lines in the article, but the funniest one to me was the line about "bringing Greg Kite along slowly."

Back in the day, we used to call Greg Kite the "pound for pound least talented player in NBA basketball."

There was also the line from one of the Lakers after one of the Cs finals blowout games (1985?; too lazy to look it up) that "When Greg Kite is hitting left-hand hook shots, you know it's not your day."
 

HomeRunBaker

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Nah, being a member of an NBA team and cashing that big check brings responsibilities beyond playing the game. Talking to the media, showing up for team pictures, participating in team events.

I'm not saying he'd win a suit over it in a court of law, but c'mon...
You are correct in that the CBA outlines a players responsibilities to off-the-court appearances however nowhere does it state that a player is required to sign their name to any memorabilia whether their team requests it or not. I stand by my post above on this matter. It would have been nice for Kyrie to sign but he has a right, as all players do, to protect his signature when it comes to signing memorabilia. Don't hate the player, Hate the game.



Above is a link for a signed autographed poster of Kyrie selling for $299. Aside from protecting his signature there is also a good chance that Kyrie has an agreement with Steiner Sports or at the very least has to consult with his agent before violating the terms of a promotional agreement which could lead to a lawsuit.

I get those not happy with Kyrie but he does have the right to protect himself against devaluing his memorabilia in the marketplace at best and possible litigation at worst. There are a ton of high profile athletes who don't sign for free which is why the market for their stuff can be $500-2000 or more.......you can't find LeBron, Aaron Rodgers, or Tiger Woods autographs out there without paying a premium.
 
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Captaincoop

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You are correct in that the CBA outlines a players responsibilities to off-the-court appearances however nowhere does it state that a player is required to sign their name to any memorabilia whether their team requests it or not. I stand by my post above on this matter. It would have been nice for Kyrie to sign but he has a right, as all players do, to protect his signature when it comes to signing memorabilia. Don't hate the player, Hate the game.
Of course he has the right. That doesn't make it a good thing to do.
 

DrewDawg

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Let's get to the important things:

Kyrie's "best friend" might be dumping him to play with Kawhi?


In fairness, the article say KD in NJ with Kyrie is more likely.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Regarding the Miami thing...don't players have a curfew on the road?
I don't believe in the NBA a coach or organization can technically enforce a curfew without a players union grievance forthcoming. You'd need a strong core of 30+ leaders to cement into the heads of the young players why they shouldn't do it. "Go ahead, go out and have fun......good luck getting the ball tomorrow night."
 

luckiestman

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How late is too late? 5am is 14 hours before game time, in the NFL that would be 11pm (14 hours before a 1 pm game).
 

JCizzle

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How late is too late? 5am is 14 hours before game time, in the NFL that would be 11pm (14 hours before a 1 pm game).
I imagine there's at least a few hours of team related stuff before the game? Plus it just can't be good for your body to be messing with your sleep cycle like that. I say this while sitting on the couch eating munchkins.
 

luckiestman

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I imagine there's at least a few hours of team related stuff before the game? Plus it just can't be good for your body to be messing with your sleep cycle like that. I say this while sitting on the couch eating munchkins.

How much is it messing with their sleep cycle. I imagine they go to bed pretty late. On any road trip West coast games don’t even end until 1am East coast time. They then have to shower cool down and do media. So the most Spartan and disciplined amongst them is making bed by 3am East time. It’s a bullshit criticism as far as I am concerned.

NBA players live with a disrupted sleep schedule all season long if natural would be bed by 10pm and wake at 6am.
 

JCizzle

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How much is it messing with their sleep cycle. I imagine they go to bed pretty late. On any road trip West coast games don’t even end until 1am East coast time. They then have to shower cool down and do media. So the most Spartan and disciplined amongst them is making bed by 3am East time. It’s a bullshit criticism as far as I am concerned.

NBA players live with a disrupted sleep schedule all season long if natural would be bed by 10pm and wake at 6am.
That's a fair point.
 

nighthob

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How much is it messing with their sleep cycle. I imagine they go to bed pretty late. On any road trip West coast games don’t even end until 1am East coast time. They then have to shower cool down and do media. So the most Spartan and disciplined amongst them is making bed by 3am East time. It’s a bullshit criticism as far as I am concerned.

NBA players live with a disrupted sleep schedule all season long if natural would be bed by 10pm and wake at 6am.
I’m pretty sure the bigger issue is the hangover/sugar crash.
 

nighthob

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Yeah, the party drugs are sort of built in to the hangover. You spend the night drinking, popping E, and snorting a couple of lines of coke and you’re getting a hangover that will last you until Monday.
 

lovegtm

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Yeah, the party drugs are sort of built in to the hangover. You spend the night drinking, popping E, and snorting a couple of lines of coke and you’re getting a hangover that will last you until Monday.
Not to mention the fact that they actually do throw the sleep rhythm out of whack. I guess you can try to pop some Xan, but you're still going to be messed up.