Back for OTAs or Out to Pasture: Have we seen the last of Peyton Manning?

[loshjott]

 
It's simple.  Brady's head coach generally acts like a dick toward that same media, so they hold a bias/grudge.

 
Plus it's the soft bigotry of low expectations. Peyton seems like genuinely a nice guy and friendly to the media, so when he turns in his annual January turd show, the talking heads genuinely feel sorry for him. 
 
Hell, Manning is probably infuriated that nobody is taking him to task because that means nobody expects anything better from him this time of year.

 

[soxfan121]

Hell, Manning is probably infuriated that nobody is taking him to task because that means nobody expects anything better from him this time of year.

 
He knows. At least, he sounded yesterday like a guy who knows. 

 

[Kevin Youkulele]

 
Plus it's the soft bigotry of low expectations. Peyton seems like genuinely a nice guy and friendly to the media, so when he turns in his annual January turd show, the talking heads genuinely feel sorry for him. 
 
Hell, Manning is probably infuriated that nobody is taking him to task because that means nobody expects anything better from him this time of year.

It was hard for me not to feel sorry for him by the end of the game, especially on the final drive where he did not even attempt a long throw.  It was all underneath, mostly in the center of the field, as the clock ticked and ticked.  Maybe he had given up by then, but even with 1:50 to go there was still a conceivable path to victory (deep ball, onside kick, another deep ball).  It seems to me you have to at least give the Colts the chance to blow coverage or commit DPI... I wonder if he was even capable of airing it out at that point.  

 

[Section15Box113]

 St. Louis would be a more likely landing spot I would think.

 
If there's something left in the tank, that would make for a fascinating division.  But, per the point upthread, harder to put up numbers against NFC West defenses.

 

[Ed Hillel]

With respect to AZ, am I missing something or didn't the Cardinals sign Carson Palmer to an extension just before he got injured? 
 
St. Louis would be a more likely landing spot I would think.

 
I think you're right; it would be St. Louis, followed by Buffalo in terms of teams that seem to make the most sense from a talent perspective. I can't see him playing under Rex or wanting to play in Buffalo outdoors, and having the dome to play in St. Louis would be ideal, though I'm guessing the thought of facing the defenses in that division 6 times a year would keep him up all offseason. Houston is another possible team, and Philly could be a longshot, though I don't think Chip would want it. I don't think any other teams make sense. There are really no great options for Manning, and I think he'd retire.

 

[Van Everyman]

Are we so sure Manning has lost it? A year ago he absolutely picked us apart for 400 yards. And for the first 10 or so games of this season, he looked as good as he's almost ever looked.

I get that we all can't wait to start dancing on his grave and all. And I understand that 38 years + 4 neck surgeries = a bad combination for any quarterback.

He may be done. But it seems as least as likely that he's injured as he's in serious decline.

 

[Kevin Youkulele]

If his body is now such that a debilitating injury is virtually inevitable over the course of a full season, would you call that injury or serious decline, or both?

 

[Super Nomario]

Are we so sure Manning has lost it? A year ago he absolutely picked us apart for 400 yards. And for the first 10 or so games of this season, he looked as good as he's almost ever looked.

I get that we all can't wait to start dancing on his grave and all. And I understand that 38 years + 4 neck surgeries = a bad combination for any quarterback.

He may be done. But it seems as least as likely that he's injured as he's in serious decline.

I think you're right. After the "Brady is done" nonsense earlier this year, I'm not in any hurry to shovel dirt on Manning's grave. Of course, if his issue isn't crippling but requires surgery anyway, he may still decide at the age of 39 he doesn't want to go through rehab and everything anyway.
 
If Manning does retire, Brees and Brady are less than five seasons at their current production levels at breaking the passing TD and yardage (currently held by Favre) records. "At their current production levels" is a pretty big caveat though.

 

[wutang112878]

Houston won 9 games this year, & if not for a couple breaks, could have easily finished 10-6, if not 11-5. General consensus around Houston is that O'Brien did a solid job given his revolving door at QB, & I'd be shocked if he was on the hot seat in year 3 unless he completely and utterly regressed to <5 wins this upcoming season.

 
In coaching years 2 years is an eternity, and I wish I had the #s to cite but I have to imagine the odds of getting past year 3 are pretty brutal so I'd actually be surprised if Obriens seat isnt getting warm by year 3.
 
I really think taking on a 'last shot' QB can really screw with the expectations of a franchise.  Year 1 Mangini was Mangenius when he took the Jets from 4 wins to 10, the next year he wins 4 and then has a swan song year with Favre that doesnt live up to expectations and he's fired.  Or take the case of Brad Childress who builds slowly in Minny and wins 6 games with Brad Johnson, 8 games with Tavaris Jackson and 10 games with Gus Frerotte at which point he should be a savoir doing that with those QBs.  Then they go get Favre and win 12 but lose in the NFC championship and the following year Childress only got to coach 10 games.  
 
As for Houston, last year Kubiak looked like an idiot there and this year he is looking so bright again that some think he might get offered another head coaching job right now.  Obviously things like injuries & luck play a factor but Obrien just isnt 7 wins a year better than Kubiak, coaching wasnt the sole reason they won just 2 games 2 years ago.  There is still a lot of work to do with that roster and say Manning covers up those warts for a year and then retires and then Obrien has his regression year, then I can almost assure you everyone forgets about this year and thinks Obrien let them down because they didnt win it all with Manning.

 

[Section15Box113]

Rodney's take on WEEI:

"I think he has to look long and hard at what... his options are. Retirement: he can go into the booth. I think he will be a great broadcaster. But at the same time, do you keep playing? Your arm's not going to get any stronger. You know, things won't get better as you get older. He's at a point where he'll be 39, I guess next year, and if I'm him, I'm really seriously considering walking away from the game."

So it could go either way.

 

[dynomite]

Are we so sure Manning has lost it? A year ago he absolutely picked us apart for 400 yards. And for the first 10 or so games of this season, he looked as good as he's almost ever looked.

I get that we all can't wait to start dancing on his grave and all. And I understand that 38 years + 4 neck surgeries = a bad combination for any quarterback.

He may be done. But it seems as least as likely that he's injured as he's in serious decline.

Yes, this is what I was trying to say earlier (or elsewhere): Manning threw for 4,700 yards and 39 TDs in the regular season this year.

Maybe he got injured in a way he can't recover from. But if not, I don't think it's a lock that he retires.

Also, the fact that his contract isn't guaranteed until March (right?) means that they don't have to make this decision right away.

 

[Van Everyman]

Bedard would seem to agree:

http://mmqb.si.com/2015/01/14/peyton-manning-retire-injuries/

Edit: Odd URL notwithstanding

 

[RG33]

As mentioned in another thread, I got to meet Archie Manning through a work function this past week. He said he had talked to Jon Gruden on Monday who had reminded him that after week 10, Peyton was arguably the MVP of the league. Archie feels like Peyton wants to play 1 more year and said he knows he "still has the fire". He also said that the arm woes were "99% related to the torn quad" that happened in the Charger game after he was dehydrated from being sick. He did mention that Peyton was aware of all of the change in Denver, and that he wasn't a huge fan of Elway. They both loved "Foxie" and felt like he got a raw deal and that Elway wants his buddy Kubiak. There wasn't much new there, but I thought I would post it.

On another aside, a funny story he told was how Cooper was the "free spirit" in the family and that when Peyton was at UT, he had placed a bet on UT against Kentucky. Well, UT was like a 20 point favorite and played terribly. He said that Cooper, who had a sideline pass, made his way down to the UT bench in the 3rd quarter and got in Peyton's grill about the score and the fact that they needed to pick things up a bit. Peyton apparently went over to a security guard, claimed that he didn't know him and that the sideline pass was a fake and had him removed.

He was a really nice guy, but I couldn't get past the familiar facial expressions and mannerisms. It was uncanny.

 

[soxfan121]

He did mention that Peyton was aware of all of the change in Denver, and that he wasn't a huge fan of Elway. They both loved "Foxie" and felt like he got a raw deal and that Elway wants his buddy Kubiak. There wasn't much new there, but I thought I would post it. 
 

 
That's not just new, that's something that hasn't been reported anywhere else, by anyone (that I can tell - and I read a lot of football). 
 
Whoa.

 

[soxhop411]

@BobGlauber: Per @JeffDuncan_ Peyton Manning training in New Orleans with intent to play in 2015. http://t.co/Pf1v3ap3gJ

 

[tims4wins]

Can't wait for his 10th one and done

 

[Salem's Lot]

There is no way that stat whore hangs them up before he breaks the passing yardage record.

 

[Ed Hillel]

Can't wait for his 10th one and done

 
I'm not assuming Denver is a playoff team at this point. They will very likely be losing talent and if the Manning we saw at the end of the year is the same we see at the beginning this upcoming season, Denver could finish 8-8 and it wouldn't surprise me at all.

 

[Mugsy's Walk-Off Bunt]

If you're D Thomas and you look at Denver and Peyton honestly, do you really want to tie yourself to that on a long-term deal? Because probably half of that. At least for now, looks like you're staring at throws from Brock Osweiler.

 

[Morgan's Magic Snowplow]

If you're D Thomas and you look at Denver and Peyton honestly, do you really want to tie yourself to that on a long-term deal? Because probably half of that. At least for now, looks like you're staring at throws from Brock Osweiler.

 
He's almost certainly getting franchised and then his choice will be tying himself to that long term or gambling on a one year contract and, if he's like most other NFL players, he'll take the guaranteed money.

 

[crystalline]

 
I'm not assuming Denver is a playoff team at this point. They will very likely be losing talent and if the Manning we saw at the end of the year is the same we see at the beginning this upcoming season, Denver could finish 8-8 and it wouldn't surprise me at all.

They say when you get old, it's not necessarily that you can't play like you were younger, it's that you reach a point where your injury rehabs all run together and drag you down.

I bet Manning starts the season strong and that some other injury knocks him out next season.

 

[Ed Hillel]

They say when you get old, it's not necessarily that you can't play like you were younger, it's that you reach a point where your injury rehabs all run together and drag you down.

I bet Manning starts the season strong and that some other injury knocks him out next season.

 
I could see that, but I'm not really convinced that the "injury" Manning played through last year wasn't his neck/arm, and that's not going to get much better. Manning made sure his PR team was leaking all the leg injury crap, but that happened late in the season and he had started playing poorly more than a month before that even happened.

 

[Morgan's Magic Snowplow]

They say when you get old, it's not necessarily that you can't play like you were younger, it's that you reach a point where your injury rehabs all run together and drag you down.

I bet Manning starts the season strong and that some other injury knocks him out next season.

 
Yup.  He's a hugely competitive guy so I wouldn't be surprised if he works his ass off this off-season, starts the year in pretty good shape (to a chorus of nauseating "OMFG Peyton Manning is Back" types of stories), and then eventually wears down or gets hit one too many times and finishes the year in about the same condition as this year.
 
The Broncos play a brutal schedule so even if Peyton is fairly effective,11-5 might be their ceiling.

 

[soxfan121]

 
I'm not assuming Denver is a playoff team at this point. They will very likely be losing talent and if the Manning we saw at the end of the year is the same we see at the beginning this upcoming season, Denver could finish 8-8 and it wouldn't surprise me at all.

 
Oh, Ed. 

 

[GeorgeCostanza]

I'm with Ed on this one. Sorry Ed, not exactly putting you in great company. I think Manning is cooked. Hope I'm proven wrong because I hate to see one of the greats go out like that. As much as I sports hate the guy it was downright sad watching the Colts/Broncos playoff game this year. I tend to enjoy the brady and manning hype when they go head to head so ive got my fingers crossed for one more healthy season (and I drafted him in my fantasy keeper league this past year so I might be biased).

 

[Euclis20]

By any statistical measure, Manning was a top 5 QB this season.  Denver went 6-2 during their 2nd half collapse, and finished the year 4th in weighted DVOA.  They are currently at 10-1 to win next year's Super Bowl, behind only Seattle and New England (tied with Green Bay).  Any idea that Denver won't again be among the 3-4 best teams in the conference is wishful thinking.  Only NE is a safer bet to make the postseason out of the AFC.

 

[brandonchristensen]

Denver is toast. It's Miami we have to worry about.

 

[JimD]

 
Yup.  He's a hugely competitive guy so I wouldn't be surprised if he works his ass off this off-season, starts the year in pretty good shape (to a chorus of nauseating "OMFG Peyton Manning is Back" types of stories), and then eventually wears down or gets hit one too many times and finishes the year in about the same condition as this year.

 
I find that a Patriots win in the Super Bowl helps prevent that nausea, replacing it with a series of amused chuckles. 

 

[Euclis20]

Sure. Unless Manning is toast and they have to rely on Osweiler and Anderson to carry the load. Which is to say nothing about the status of their free agents. They could easily slip out of the top six.

 
And the Patriots will be right back in the mix next year, unless Brady's performance over the first 4 (and last 4) games carries over to the rest of the year.  It isn't difficult to imagine Gronk suffers his 4th major injury in the last 5 years, or Revis and/or McCourty leave in free agency, dropping the Pats back to where they were the last couple years (without a great receiver and with a below average secondary), but without MVP caliber Brady to pick them up.  
 
You can play the what if game with any team.  Manning looked toast against the Colts, but not in the regular season.  In 2013, he looked done against Seattle, but not in the regular season.  In 2012, he looked done against the Ravens...but not in the regular season.  It's with good reason that Denver is again picked as one of the best teams in the AFC.

 

[rodderick]

 
And the Patriots will be right back in the mix next year, unless Brady's performance over the first 4 (and last 4) games carries over to the rest of the year.  It isn't difficult to imagine Gronk suffers his 4th major injury in the last 5 years, or Revis and/or McCourty leave in free agency, dropping the Pats back to where they were the last couple years (without a great receiver and with a below average secondary), but without MVP caliber Brady to pick them up.  
 
You can play the what if game with any team.  Manning looked toast against the Colts, but not in the regular season.  In 2013, he looked done against Seattle, but not in the regular season.  In 2012, he looked done against the Ravens...but not in the regular season.  It's with good reason that Denver is again picked as one of the best teams in the AFC.

Manning looked toast since the Rams game, and Brady's last 3 games looked pretty fucking good to me.

You talk as if there's about an equal chance of Brady and Manning falling off a cliff in 2015, which is ridiculous. One guy was just Super Bowl MVP, shredding the best defense in football, the other couldn't throw the ball past 2 yards against a mediocre defense at home. Sure, he'll probably be much better once his quad heals, but Brady being his usual self in 2015 is a MUCH surer bet than Manning.

 

[Devizier]

Before the Patriots won the Superbowl, I thought Manning's shot at returning was less than fifty percent. But all this GOAT talk for Brady has to be enraging the fuck out of Peyton. Which is great. He'll be back next year.

 

[Euclis20]

I don't mean to imply they are equal, only that every team faces questions at the end of a season. Just because manning isn't as sure a bet as Brady doesn't mean he's finished, and the Broncos wi'll tumble all the way out of the playoffs. He looked bad at the end of the year, but he was hurt, and he's been looking bad in the playoffs for over fifteen years. For 2015 only, there are maybe a half dozen quarterbacks I'd take over him (Brady, Rodgers, luck, Wilson, then it's up for debate).

It is with good reason that Vegas has them as the second best bet in the afc. Nothing is guaranteed, but this doesn't look like a team that's about to miss the playoffs.

 

[Ed Hillel]

I don't mean to imply they are equal, only that every team faces questions at the end of a season. Just because manning isn't as sure a bet as Brady doesn't mean he's finished, and the Broncos wi'll tumble all the way out of the playoffs. He looked bad at the end of the year, but he was hurt, and he's been looking bad in the playoffs for over fifteen years. For 2015 only, there are maybe a half dozen quarterbacks I'd take over him (Brady, Rodgers, luck, Wilson, then it's up for debate).

It is with good reason that Vegas has them as the second best bet in the afc. Nothing is guaranteed, but this doesn't look like a team that's about to miss the playoffs.

 
I know the discussion has since progressed, but my original comment is that I wasn't assuming Denver would be a playoff team next year. Do I think they will be? More likely than not. Do I think there's a realistic chance that Manning is completely cooked, and/or that he can't physically make it through an NFL season anymore? Yep. Free agency for them will be interesting. I assume Clady is as good as gone, given his performance and cap savings, so they'll probably have somewhere in the neighborhood of 25-30 million to spend, but they've got three major guys to address (the Thomases and Knighton) and they also have 17 other free agents/spots to fill, including Rahim Moore as a UFA and Brandon Marshall as a RFA. I think it's likely they will have less talent on the roster.

 

[FL4WL3SS]

I'm not quite with Ed on this, but I can definitely see a scenario where Denver sneaks into the playoffs as a 10-6 team. Your'e looking at a team that is going to lose some valuable experience and will probably have to replace those players with rookies. As mentioned, if Manning fades down the stretch as he did this year (and yes he'll probably get banged up again) then the team is dead in the water unless you think Brock Osweiler is the answer.

Oh, Ed.

Why don't you explain why you disagree.

 

[MarcSullivaFan]

I'm scratching my head as to why anyone would give Ed a hard time for stating that he wouldn't be surprised if Denver was not a playoff team next year. The most important player on the team is almost 39, has had 4 neck surgeries, and absolutely cratered down the stretch. As far as I'm concerned, it's a coin flip as to whether he's toast.

Of course any team can fall apart if it has enough injuries, especially at the QB position. But there are levels of probability. In this case, we have an old player with history of serious injuries who was physically unable to perform the last time we saw him. If I'm a Broncos fan, I'm feeling pretty queasy.

 

[dcmissle]

Before the Patriots won the Superbowl, I thought Manning's shot at returning was less than fifty percent. But all this GOAT talk for Brady has to be enraging the fuck out of Peyton. Which is great. He'll be back next year.

There are posts one comes across that are just laugh out loud funny. This was one for me. Thank you.

The Mannings are the football equivalent of the Clintons -- even if you love them, you hate them. You hate them because of the media obsession and their own self absorption. The navel gazing and drama, and their omnipresence, are just flat out infuriating after a while.

So it is no surprise to see this after the Super Bowl dust settled.

You know what's great, though? Peyton and Tom no longer can be mentioned in the same sentence by serious people.

 

[Toe Nash]

Their offensive line was also really poor down the stretch. The line can come together in a hurry, and Peyton usually gets the ball out so quickly that it doesn't matter, but I think it's a major concern especially if they cut Clady / he doesn't return to form.

 

[Euclis20]

At this point we may just be splitting hairs, but I'll repeat: Vegas has them at ten to one to win the super bowl, second best in the afc. The Broncos looked like the best team in the league in the first half of the season. They went 11-1 against non playoff teams. Prior to his late season collapse, it looked like manning was going to repeat as mvp. After his collapse, manning was still top five or better in qb rating, qbr, passing yards, completions, and touchdowns.

It isn't difficult to imagine a scenario in which Denver misses the playoffs. That doesn't mean it's all that likely.

 

[Marciano490]

Is Osweiler a viable starter or do they go to the draft in the early rounds this year for a successor QB?

 

[simplyeric]

Do you think that maybe, this year, Peyton doesn't bravely take the essentially garbage-time snaps in games that are fully decided?  
 
He's so strong and brave (and such a total dick to his backup QB)
 
Even just those handful of extra throws (and possible extra hits) must wear him down.

 

[Leather]

Do you think that maybe, this year, Peyton doesn't bravely take the essentially garbage-time snaps in games that are fully decided?  
 
He's so strong and brave (and such a total dick to his backup QB)
 
Even just those handful of extra throws (and possible extra hits) must wear him down.

 
What? What on earth do you mean?

 

[simplyeric]

 
What? What on earth do you mean?

 
( I was searching for the gif of exactly that, but then I had to step into a meeting...)

 

[DJnVa]

 
And the Patriots will be right back in the mix next year, unless Brady's performance over the first 4 (and last 4) games carries over to the rest of the year.

 

Which last 4? I'm assuming you mean the regular season, but I don't know if I share the worry.
 
You seem to be including the Buffalo game, which I wouldn't. So, the last 4 full games he played, his QB rating was about 92.0, and he threw for over 1000 yards, with 7 TDs and 3 INTs--full season equivalents of 63.9% completion, 4100 yards, and 28 TDs and 12 INTs. One more TD and one less INT over that time frame and he's essentially right on his season numbers.

 

[MentalDisabldLst]

i am here to take my lumps    
 
u guys most likely  wont have to worry about denver for a while    good luck next week    

 

There aren't going to be any lumps, this forum doesn't operate that way, we're all fans of our teams, no need to kick someone when they are down.
 
This is sports, the toybox of life and at the end of the day, it's not life and death.
 
Sorry your team lost, it's never fun or pleasant when it happens, been there, done that.

 
...Unless you're Wibi, apparently.
 

and the 2006 playoff run was a gift indy D won 3 of the 4 games and in the game manning won was down 21-3 to ne at the haif 

 
Yeah, when it's all over for him, that 2006 AFCCG will probably be the signature game of Peyton Manning's career.  In the last 31 mins of that game, his offense hung 35 points on a peak-of-their-dynasty Patriots D, with all the legendary names still on it.  Outscored the Pats 35-13.  Didn't get the benefit of a bunch of ridiculous turnovers either.  Just an incredible performance.

 

[soxhop411]

Jason Cole ‏@JasonPhilCole  1m1 minute ago
Insider Buzz: Broncos Undecided on Peyton Manning Return, Could Fail Physical http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2360058-insider-buzz-broncos-undecided-on-peyton-manning-return-could-fail-physical?utm_source=twitter.com&utm_medium=share&utm_campaign=web-mob-art-vid-16 … via @bleacherreport

 

[dcmissle]

We had them 21 to 3 at half, no? Or something like that?

It was a cock punch.

 

[dcmissle]

We had them 21 to 3 at half, no? Or something like that?

It was a cock punch.

EDIT -- Made 1000 times worse by the fact that the Bears were there to be rolled in the SB.

 

[wiffleballhero]

I am glad I am not alone in never really getting over this AFC Championship game. At the half my wife said, 'it's over, the Pats should take it easy on them, don't you feel bad for the Colts?' She looked at me like I was some deranged bully for saying, 'no way, we need at least 14 more.' I still sort of blame her for this one.
 
Chicago was so obviously just a sitting duck.

 

[Euclis20]

 
Which last 4? I'm assuming you mean the regular season, but I don't know if I share the worry.
 
You seem to be including the Buffalo game, which I wouldn't. So, the last 4 full games he played, his QB rating was about 92.0, and he threw for over 1000 yards, with 7 TDs and 3 INTs--full season equivalents of 63.9% completion, 4100 yards, and 28 TDs and 12 INTs. One more TD and one less INT over that time frame and he's essentially right on his season numbers.

I did mean the regular season, but I'm not exactly worried. Projected over an entire sixteen game season, manning's second half stats translate to a 90.3 qb rating, 64.9% completion, 4300 yards, 30 TDs and 20 interceptions. That's not exactly mvp level, but they aren't the numbers of someone about to fall off a cliff.

 

[MarcSullivaFan]

I did mean the regular season, but I'm not exactly worried. Projected over an entire sixteen game season, manning's second half stats translate to a 90.3 qb rating, 64.9% completion, 4300 yards, 30 TDs and 20 interceptions. That's not exactly mvp level, but they aren't the numbers of someone about to fall off a cliff.

Since the biggest issue with Manning is his health, why wouldn't you include the playoff game? It wasn't just a bad game; he couldn't throw the ball more than 5-10 yards down the field.